Salvation and Unitarians

[praise_yeshua]

Though Peter was slow to recognize God's work among the Gentiles, he certainly spoke true words in Acts 10:34-35.

Acts 10:34 Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons:
Acts 10:35 But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him.

God saves. He has people everywhere. He alone is Judge of humanity. I'm not the judge of any man. However, I have studied the words of Christ. Christ has spoken boldy about His Position in salvation. For example.....Sobering words are found in

John 8:24 I told you that you would die in your sins, for unless you believe that I am he you will die in your sins.”

The question must be asked, "What must a person believe about Christ to be saved?". I'm not asking when you believe you were saved. I'm not asking how you believe you were saved. I'm asking what about Christ did you believe that fulfilled John 8:24? Not Romans 10:9-10. Though Paul is absolutely right about Romans 10:9-10 most people fail to realize that he had spent 9 chapters previous to these statements defining salvation in context of Jesus Christ. It is very important what a person actually believes about Jesus Christ. It is clear to me that the Threshold of salvation rests in how anyone deals with Jesus Christ.

John 10:9 I am the door: by me if any man enter in, he shall be saved, and shall go in and out, and find pasture.

Jesus mentions that "many have come"

John 10:8 All that ever came before me are thieves and robbers: but the sheep did not hear them.

I will add, many have come since. This world is filled with "idols of imagination". People seem to think they can just name Christ and "fabricate" most anything they want to believe about Him and everything will be okay. No. It is very important what you believe about Christ.

2Cor 10:5 Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ;

You know what works matter when it comes to living for Christ?.....It is how you proclaim Christ that defines what you are. "Witnesses"

Act 1:8 But you will receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you, and you will be my witnesses in Jerusalem and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the end of the earth.”

What we witness matters....

I said all this to say this......

It find it difficult to accept that Unitarians are part of the family of God. So I'm asking Unitarians to convincely proclaim Christ for who He is. Can you preach the Gospel message that extols the Eternal value of Jesus Christ? I can't say that I see that happening from Unitarians. Can you show me the reality of the Gospel from a Unitarian perspective that doesn't craft/fabricate an Idol of Christ?

Christ is the perfect expression of Divinity. Christ is the only sacrifice for sin. God dying for humanity. The Heir of all things. The Name which is above every name. This doctrine is essential to understand the "Door". How can you ever imagine to "walk through the door" when you're treating it every way but as THE ONLY DOOR?

 

[APAK]

Though Peter was slow to recognize God's work among the Gentiles, he certainly spoke true words in Acts 10:34-35.

Acts 10:34 Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons:
Acts 10:35 But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him.

God saves. He has people everywhere. He alone is Judge of humanity. I'm not the judge of any man. However, I have studied the words of Christ. Christ has spoken boldy about His Position in salvation. For example.....Sobering words are found in

John 8:24 I told you that you would die in your sins, for unless you believe that I am he you will die in your sins.”

The question must be asked, "What must a person believe about Christ to be saved?". I'm not asking when you believe you were saved. I'm not asking how you believe you were saved. I'm asking what about Christ did you believe that fulfilled John 8:24? Not Romans 10:9-10. Though Paul is absolutely right about Romans 10:9-10 most people fail to realize that he had spent 9 chapters previous to these statements defining salvation in context of Jesus Christ. It is very important what a person actually believes about Jesus Christ. It is clear to me that the Threshold of salvation rests in how anyone deals with Jesus Christ.

John 10:9 I am the door: by me if any man enter in, he shall be saved, and shall go in and out, and find pasture.

Jesus mentions that "many have come"

John 10:8 All that ever came before me are thieves and robbers: but the sheep did not hear them.

I will add, many have come since. This world is filled with "idols of imagination". People seem to think they can just name Christ and "fabricate" most anything they want to believe about Him and everything will be okay. No. It is very important what you believe about Christ.

2Cor 10:5 Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ;

You know what works matter when it comes to living for Christ?.....It is how you proclaim Christ that defines what you are. "Witnesses"

Act 1:8 But you will receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you, and you will be my witnesses in Jerusalem and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the end of the earth.”

What we witness matters....

I said all this to say this......

It find it difficult to accept that Unitarians are part of the family of God. So I'm asking Unitarians to convincely proclaim Christ for who He is. Can you preach the Gospel message that extols the Eternal value of Jesus Christ? I can't say that I see that happening from Unitarians. Can you show me the reality of the Gospel from a Unitarian perspective that doesn't craft/fabricate an Idol of Christ?

Christ is the perfect expression of Divinity. Christ is the only sacrifice for sin. God dying for humanity. The Heir of all things. The Name which is above every name. This doctrine is essential to understand the "Door". How can you ever imagine to "walk through the door" when you're treating it every way but as THE ONLY DOOR?

You have raised an important point by relating one's personal salvation with applicable scripture. As long as we understand this scripture we are addressing we can then reflect and apply it to why it may reinforce why we have salvation and are 'being' saved.

I think the first scripture you raise of John 8:24 is a good one to start with. It is of course the punch line verse. Looking back a bit at some previous verses and a few afterwards would provide a better meaning and understanding. John 8:23-30 covers the meaning of verse 24 adequately. It really started back at verse 13 when the Pharisees questioned Jesus' words as being true testimony. Jesus began explaining his Father who resided within him in Spirit that he is also a witness to his actions and words.

(Joh 8:23) And he said unto them, Ye are from beneath; I am from above: ye are of this world; I am not of this world.
(Joh 8:24) I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for except ye believe that I am he, ye shall die in your sins.
(Joh 8:25) They said therefore unto him, Who art thou? Jesus said unto them, Even that which I have also spoken unto you from the beginning.
(Joh 8:26) I have many things to speak and to judge concerning you: howbeit he that sent me is true; and the things which I heard from him, these speak I unto the world.
(Joh 8:27) They perceived not that he spake to them of the Father.
(Joh 8:28) Jesus therefore said, When ye have lifted up the Son of man, then shall ye know that I am he, and that I do nothing of myself, but as the Father taught me, I speak these things.
(Joh 8:29) And he that sent me is with me; he hath not left me alone; for I do always the things that are pleasing to him.
(Joh 8:30) As he spake these things, many believed on him.(RV)

The context is that many Judeans and the Pharisees in particular did not know the real Christ standing before them. They did not know his relationship with God, his Father. And Jesus mentioned his relation with him before. They did not know he was born of his Father, 'from above,' and not by the will of man, of the earth. They saw no real significance in this man calling himself Jesus the Christ.

Christ warned them he would leave this earth. He would die for the sins of humanity. They did not realize they had a sin problem that would destroy their very souls. So Jesus spoke a warning to them. Believe that I am the one I claim to be, the Christ, the true Son of God!

And so in reading John 8:24 I realized that my experience in salvation is/was aligned with Jesus' words to his audience. To believe he is the Saviour and my Savior for my very existence, soul and future life in the completed Kingdom of God, of his Father and mine.

The Son and the Father were one indeed, in purpose, in lock-step, with their pivotal life-saving mission to cause the salvation for many faithful.

Jesus said he was doing his Father's will and his words were of his Father. And Jesus said that his Father, his Spirit was with/in him at all times.

So Jesus was the Messiah of God, and for us. He was also the sacrifice for our sins with God working in his mission throughout to his Son's road to the cross and beyond, to cause his resurrection from his human death on the Cross. As the Son was glorified in this act of new life so was his Father, our God Amen.

 

[Wrangler]

It find it difficult to accept that Unitarians are part of the family of God. So I'm asking Unitarians to convincely proclaim Christ for who He is.

See my thread on Why the trinity is wrong: theology. Also see ABC's thread.

Mark 1:1 explicitly proclaims Jesus is the Son of God. If God's word does not convincingly proclaim who Christ is, you won't be convinced by anything little ol me says.

 

[praise_yeshua]

See my thread on Why the trinity is wrong: theology. Also see ABC's thread.

Mark 1:1 explicitly proclaims Jesus is the Son of God. If God's word does not convincingly proclaim who Christ is, you won't be convinced by anything little ol me says.

I know what your gospel is. You are God's Son too. Your are worshipped by angels. I bet that sells well doesn't it? Especially when die and remain in the grave.... right? Or when your are powerless to actually save others. How does that work for you? Do sinners ask forgiveness in your name?

 

[Wrangler]

I know what your gospel is. You are God's Son too. Your are worshipped by angels. I bet that sells well doesn't it? Especially when die and remain in the grave.... right? Or when your are powerless to actually save others. How does that work for you? Do sinners ask forgiveness in your name?

Contempt is not good topic of conversation. One wonders why you even asked about Biblical Unitarians.

I'm done here.

 

[APAK]

I know what your gospel is. You are God's Son too. Your are worshipped by angels. I bet that sells well doesn't it? Especially when die and remain in the grave.... right? Or when your are powerless to actually save others. How does that work for you? Do sinners ask forgiveness in your name?

These statements you have make again are preposterous and way out of line. Where do you get all this fiction from, that 'you are God's Son' and 'angels worship you' etc. This is really absurd and stunning. Why are you making baseless charges against @Wrangler and even myself for that matter? You must have had a bad experience with someone or some parties and now have become hardened and call all non-Trinitarians out with down-right lies, all this without any just cause. Has either of us admitted your charge, of course not and we will never because these charges are far-fetched and ludicrous.

Are you then another member I've encountered here who is determined not to have a civil and edifying discussion of scripture with those that believe differently than you? I'm really now beginning to think so. And you might call yourself a believer in Christ although your words definitely do not match this profile.

Have a great week...we just had a Cat 4 hurricane pass by us...we were well out of range fortunately for us....APAK

 

[Joy]

These statements you have make again are preposterous and way out of line. Where do you get all this fiction from, that 'you are God's Son' and 'angels worship you' etc. This is really absurd and stunning. Why are you making baseless charges against @Wrangler and even myself for that matter? You must have had a bad experience with someone or some parties and now have become hardened and call all non-Trinitarians out with down-right lies, all this without any just cause. Has either of us admitted your charge, of course not and we will never because these charges are far-fetched and ludicrous.

Are you then another member I've encountered here who is determined not to have a civil and edifying discussion of scripture with those that believe differently than you? I'm really now beginning to think so. And you might call yourself a believer in Christ although your words definitely do not match this profile.

Have a great week...we just had a Cat 4 hurricane pass by us...we were well out of range fortunately for us....APAK

That is not very kind or friendly way to treat people. Just because a person looks different or believes differently than someone else does not give them the right to treat them unkindly. You can tell if a person is being influenced by the Holy Spirit the way they treat those who are difficult to love. Jesus said it is easy to love those who love you but I say to you love your enemies and do good to them. The fruit of the Spirit is: love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law. 24 Those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires. 25 Since we live by the Spirit, let us keep in step with the Spirit. 26 Let us not become conceited, provoking and envying each other.

 

[praise_yeshua]

These statements you have make again are preposterous and way out of line.

Claiming to be equal with the Son of God is "way out of line". Tell me why you need Christ if you're equal to Him?

Where do you get all this fiction from, that 'you are God's Son' and 'angels worship you' etc. This is really absurd and stunning. Why are you making baseless charges against

I'm not. You're not paying attentions to the conversation going on in this thread. Read a little more before you start accusing me of being "over the top".

You must have had a bad experience with someone or some parties and now have become hardened and call all non-Trinitarians out with down-right lies, all this without any just cause. Has either of us admitted your charge, of course not and we will never because these charges are far-fetched and ludicrous.

Isn't that nice. You don't know me and yet you've fabricated nonsense about me. What I said to him was based on what he has clearly stated in this forum.

Are you then another member I've encountered here who is determined not to have a civil and edifying discussion of scripture with those that believe differently than you? I'm really now beginning to think so. And you might call yourself a believer in Christ although your words definitely do not match this profile.

Playing wounded? or are you genuinely offended? If you are offended, GOOD. Jesus offended Unitarians. They sought to murder Him.
I exalt Jesus Christ to His rightful place.

Col 2:19 And not holding the Head, from which all the body by joints and bands having nourishment ministered, and knit together, increaseth with the increase of God.

Eph 1:20 Which he wrought in Christ, when he raised him from the dead, and set him at his own right hand in the heavenly places,
Eph 1:21 Far above all principality, and power, and might, and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this world, but also in that which is to come:
Eph 1:22 And hath put all things under his feet, and gave him to be the head over all things to the church,
Eph 1:23 Which is his body, the fulness of him that filleth all in all.

Have a great week...we just had a Cat 4 hurricane pass by us...we were well out of range fortunately for us....APAK

I don't have any ill will toward any of you. I hope and fight for the truth. Often times, this isn't a pleasant experience but it is necessary. Be safe. God protect you and yours .

 

[praise_yeshua]

Contempt is not good topic of conversation. One wonders why you even asked about Biblical Unitarians.

I'm done here.

Did you not claim that angels worship you? Come back and defend what you've said.

I have contempt for what you've stated. I don't have contempt for you. Christ called Peter.....Satan. He did because He loved Peter. The realty of your position is damaging to you. I'm free brother. I fight for you freedom.

 

[civic]

Did you not claim that angels worship you? Come back and defend what you've said.

I have contempt for what you've stated. I don't have contempt for you. Christ called Peter.....Satan. He did because He loved Peter. The realty of your position is damaging to you. I'm free brother. I fight for you freedom.

Do you have a quote where he said that as I would like to read that myself. Thanks !

 

[praise_yeshua]

Do you have a quote where he said that as I would like to read that myself. Thanks !

Like I would lie about such....

https://berean-apologetics.community.forum/threads/why-the-trinity-is-wrong-theology.520/post-11442

 

[civic]

Like I would lie about such....

https://berean-apologetics.community.forum/threads/why-the-trinity-is-wrong-theology.520/post-11442

I wasn't implying you did I just wanted to read it myself. I wanted to ask a few questions myself for the claim. So I just quoted him so I can interact with those claims of angel worship.

 

[praise_yeshua]

I wasn't implying you did I just wanted to read it myself. I wanted to ask a few questions myself for the claim. So I just quoted him so I can interact with those claims of angel worship.

Got it. I've had several people questioning my integrity. I didn't believe you were. Thanks

 

[civic]

Got it. I've had several people questioning my integrity. I didn't believe you were. Thanks

Plus is allows everyone else to see what was said. Thanks !

I missed it the first time because I don't necessarily read every post. I try my best to read most everything here but thats not always the case. We have on average anywhere from 200-500 posts in a day so its hard to keep up with all of them lol.

 

[praise_yeshua]

That is not very kind or friendly way to treat people. Just because a person looks different or believes differently than someone else does not give them the right to treat them unkindly. You can tell if a person is being influenced by the Holy Spirit the way they treat those who are difficult to love. Jesus said it is easy to love those who love you but I say to you love your enemies and do good to them. The fruit of the Spirit is: love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law. 24 Those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires. 25 Since we live by the Spirit, let us keep in step with the Spirit. 26 Let us not become conceited, provoking and envying each other.

I don't envy you. I'm not being conceited. There is so much WRONG with what you just stated. I have long been amaze how little people actually know about the life and actions of Jesus. Or the actions of the apostles. I tell you what people like you do. When you can't deal with an argument, you play wounded. You play offended. You then insist that the person challenging you isn't of God because they were not "kind" to you.

I mentioned were Christ called Peter.... Satan. Given your comments, I believe you must consider Christ not to be of God.... Right? If you're condemning me apart from Christ, then apply your standard equally.

 

[Joy]

I don't envy you. I'm not being conceited. There is so much WRONG with what you just stated. I have long been amaze how little people actually know about the life and actions of Jesus. Or the actions of the apostles. I tell you what people like you do. When you can't deal with an argument, you play wounded. You play offended. You then insist that the person challenging you isn't of God because they were not "kind" to you.

I mentioned were Christ called Peter.... Satan. Given your comments, I believe you must consider Christ not to be of God.... Right? If you're condemning me apart from Christ, then apply your standard equally.

I love Jesus and the Pharisees hated him. You said they were unitarians. I am a unitarian and Iove Jesus. Jesus also said to love your enemies and to speak well of them and if I'm your enemy because I believe differently about God than you do then that doesn't give you the right as a christian to treat me unkindly. I also have an obligation to treat you nicely.

 

[Fred]

That is not very kind or friendly way to treat people. Just because a person looks different or believes differently than someone else does not give them the right to treat them unkindly. You can tell if a person is being influenced by the Holy Spirit the way they treat those who are difficult to love. Jesus said it is easy to love those who love you but I say to you love your enemies and do good to them. The fruit of the Spirit is: love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law. 24 Those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires. 25 Since we live by the Spirit, let us keep in step with the Spirit. 26 Let us not become conceited, provoking and envying each other.

There are times when the words of Acts 13:10 are appropriate.
Remember, Paul was filled with the Holy Spirit when he spoke (cf. v.9).

 

[Joy]

There are times when the words of Acts 13:10 are appropriate.
Remember, Paul was filled with the Holy Spirit when he spoke (cf. v.9).

Yes for someone who has a demon in them or is a sorcerer. I am not either one of them and I love Jesus.

 

[Fred]

I am a unitarian and Iove Jesus.

Impossible.

This is because you are denying who He is -> God.

The Lord Jesus who is to be loved (1 Corinthians 16:22) is YHWH (1 Corinthians 10:26; cf. Psalm 24:1).

https://berean-apologetics.community.forum/threads/jesus-is-the-lord-yhwh-in-1-corinthians-10-26-psalm-24-1-cf-deuteronomy-6-4.216/

 

[praise_yeshua]

I love Jesus and the Pharisees hated him. You said they were unitarians. I am a unitarian and Iove Jesus. Jesus also said to love your enemies and to speak well of them and if I'm your enemy because I believe differently about God than you do then that doesn't give you the right as a christian to treat me unkindly. I also have an obligation to treat you nicely.

No. Jesus was talking about Himself. He alone is the one that loved His enemies. While we were yet enemies of God, Christ died for the ungodly.

You do not honor the rightful place of Jesus Christ. That is the Truth. If that Truth offends you then so be it.

As mankind always does, they claim to be different than the human beings before them. When we are all the same. If I had lived during the Advent of Jesus Christ, then I would have called for His death because He claimed to be God. Which is the reason the Pharisees called for His death.

Joh 5:18 Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God.

You would have too.

You can not RIGHTFULLY love Christ and just consider Him a simple man. You either love Him as God, of you're not loving Him enough.