Salvation and Unitarians
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Wrangler
Well-known member
You don't even know what the name of Jesus' God is.
Your obsession with rationalizing your false doctrine is something to behold. Ever look at the next verse?
21And it will be that whoever calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.b
22“You men of Israel, listen to these words! Jesus of Nazareth, a man pointed out to you by God by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did through him in the midst of you, just as you yourselves know,
Jesus is a man. This man was pointed out to the people by God.
...how to refute the evidence I presented in post 200 because there is no refutation for it.
It's not surprising why you dodged the question I asked concerning Acts 9:28.
Thanks for making this easy for me.
In terms of you other so-called proof, this is easy.
Jesus is Lord in that He is YHWH (Acts 2:21; cf. Joel 2:32)
AND
Jesus is a man (Acts 2:22)
Again, thanks for making this easy for me.
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Wrangler
Well-known member
This is how you reply to the next verse, which explicitly calls Jesus a man?!
Refuted already. Even if ‘in his name’ does not refer to God but the man Jesus, it does not mean the man Jesus is God.
This is how you reply to the previous verse in which YHWH from Joel 2:32 (3:5 in the LXX) is used in reference to Jesus?!
Carry on in your delusion.
APAK
Active member
These particular verses in Acts is an area where Trinitarians yet again attempt to manipulate and impose their false claim that the Son of God is also God the Son and the LORD in the OT as well as the same lord Yahshua in the NT.
And then get further carried away with this pagan Trinitarian ignorant notion, that the LORD/Lord the God of all, in Joel (Acts 2:21) is also the Son of God because it also says ‘the name of Lord’ one might be saved. This just adds chaos or confusion to the subject and clouds what Peter was truly speaking about to his audience.
One must believe in the Son to be saved although the Father, the LORD is the master mind and spirit behind it all for our salvation, and not his Son. The Father provides the seal and accreditation of salvation and not his Son.
So, these ignorant Trinitarians gather other expressions in other verses where they find (in) 'the name of the Christ/lord’ to prove their point, only to deliberately fail, each time, to read the clear and plain common text and local meaning of the expression it in all these verses. It means believing in Christ as lord for their salvation as the first step in the salvation process. They become baptized as in the lord or Christ first. The final step of salvation is when the Spirit of the Father, the LORD of all, dwells within them as he places his Son’s spirit in each believer.
Here's a list of some of the verses that these misguided Trinitarians use and where in ‘the name of the lord’ or Christ is found; in Acts 8:16, 9:28, Acts 19:5, 13, 17, 21:13.
They force these verses as an equivalent meaning of Joel or Acts 2:21. And, if they truly believe they are the same, then I inquire are these proponents of this crude and ridiculous hypothesis truly saved?
You are the one who is misguided for "the Name of the Lord" is found in the verses above.
The Lord in Acts 2:21 is the same Lord in these passages: Acts 8:16; 9:28; 19:5, 13, 17; 21:13.
Peter (recorded by Luke) applies YHWH from Joel 2:32 (3:5 in the Septuagint) in reference to Jesus being the Lord in Acts 2:21. The ludicrous position by those who deny the Lord Jesus is God would have us believe Peter (as well as Luke) would never want us to even come close to thinking Jesus is YHWH even though this application was done - and that in regards to prayer, for God alone is the proper recipient of prayer. That this passage (and many others) teach the Lord Jesus is the proper recipient of prayer demonstrates He is God.
The above is evidence you twist and/or dodge to your own ruin.
If one rejects Jesus is YHWH then they are not saved for this is included in the proclamation of the gospel (Acts 2:21; cf. Romans 10:8, 13).
APAK
Active member
Dodgy indeed. It is always you I'm afraid and not I, to tell the truth.
Stop this ridiculous charade and read Acts 2:36. This should stop you in your tracks. If you understand it Fred, then you have to know that that 'calling on the LORD' in Joel and in verse 21 means that someone had to make Christ a Lord for us. And it was not himself....
Stop this ridiculous charade and read Acts 2:36. This should stop you in your tracks. If you understand it Fred, then you have to know that that 'calling on the LORD' in Joel and in verse 21 means that someone had to make Christ a Lord for us. And it was not himself....
Wrangler
Well-known member
Eisegesis. Jesus is not God. There is ony one God, the Father - at least, according to Scripture, the word of YHWH. But what does he know, right?
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Wrangler
Well-known member
It shows how powerful IDOLATRY is. The rationalization has no end. "In the name of APAK." ""In the name of Fred" Obviously, APAK and friend are a one Being, 2 person entity. Huh?
God made Jesus a son, which is a created being, by definition. God made Jesus lord and Messiah is explicit text of Scripture. No rational use of language would one word things this way to mean what Trinitarians want it to mean. IF Jesus were God, such a sentence would never be written for it makes no sense.
Wrangler
Well-known member
LOL I didged nothing.
In the name of Fred, I am. This means we are both God, to your way of thinking, right?
Okay...but you dodged the evidence from Acts 2:21.
You are more delusional than I previously thought.
Get a hold of yourself.
Whenever "the Name of the Lord" is used by Paul (speaking and in his writings) it is always in reference to the Lord Jesus.
Romans 10:13
For whosoever shall call upon the Name of the Lord shall be saved.
Acts 21:13
Then Paul answered, What mean ye to weep and to break my heart?
For I am ready not to be bound only, but also to die at Jerusalem for the Name of the Lord Jesus.
1 Corinthians 6:11
And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified,
but ye are justified in the Name of the Lord Jesus Christ and in the Spirit our God.
Colossians 3:17
And whatsoever ye do in word or deed, do all in the Name of the Lord Jesus,
giving thanks through Him to God the Father.
For 2 Timothy 2:19 see Acts 19:13 below. The "Lord," in to name the Name of the Lord, refers to the Lord Jesus
2 Timothy 2:19
Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth those who are His.
And, let everyone who nameth the Name of the Lord depart from iniquity.
Acts 19:13
Then certain of the vagabond Jews, exorcists, took upon them to name over those who had evil spirits the Name of the Lord Jesus,
saying, I adjure you by Jesus whom Paul preacheth.
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101G
Well-known member
was not Paul quoting Joel 2:32? "And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the LORD shall be delivered: for in mount Zion and in Jerusalem shall be deliverance, as the LORD hath said, and in the remnant whom the LORD shall call."
is this the same Saviour, or two different Saviour.
101G.
Pancho Frijoles
Well-known member
Dear friend
I beg you to reconsider.
There is no single verse in the Bible in which God or Jesus or an apostle demands believing in the Trinity as a condition to be accepted as children of God.
Unitarians are your brothers and sisters.
So, do not throw away what God has not thrown away.
Pancho Frijoles
Well-known member
My friends @civic and @Fred:
Whenever the name of "God" is used by Paul (speaking and in his writings) it is never in reference to the Lord Jesus.
Well, I should say >95% of the times.
I can do the math for those interested.
In regard to the Gospel, whenever the name "God" is used by Jesus, is never in reference to Himself.
This time it is 100% of the times.
I can do the math for those interested.
civic
Well-known member
Both Paul and Peter several times refer to Christ as our God and Savior.
Pancho Frijoles
Well-known member
Several? Three.
This represents less than 5% of all the mentioning of Christ and God in the same sentence or verse.
In the remining 95%, Paul and Peter use God to refer to a Being who is NOT Christ.
Furthermore, in several verses they go as explicit as possible, indicating that the God they are talking about is The Father.
Is anybody interested in me presenting the math?
In any case, the focus of the thread, I guess, is salvation and the Trinity.
Salvation cannot depend, certainly, on the belief in a hidden doctrine that is overshadowed by the doctrine that God is One Single Person, namely, the Father of Jesus, Our Father in Heaven.
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