Right Faith..vs Wrong Faith

[Studyman]

I truly understand what this world's religions teach about Jesus being immortal, and mortal at the same time. I just don't believe the Scriptures promote that Jesus, for the reasons I outlined.


Jesus is exactly like us because like us, HE too had the choice to refuse the evil, and do the good.

Jesus is nothing like us because HE never chose the evil, and we have.

The point being, He, the Jesus "of the Bible", didn't cheat as a man resisting temptation by kicking in God powers no other human has ever had access to. And yet, the Jesus promoted by this world's religions did just that, and they preach God was a party to this deception. I agree that there is a mystery, I just don't find where Jesus ever said He, as a man, was fully God. He prayed to God, He is not at the right hand of God, Is He not at the right hand of God, spoke God's Words and not His own, He walked in the Works God before ordained that men should walk in them.

But He, that is, the Jesus "of the Bible" never claimed He was immortal God.

Matt. 19: 16 And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life? 17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.

I know I am bucking ancient religious traditions and philosophy promoted by "many" who come in Christ's Name, who call Jesus Lord, Lord. I have just come to believe that Scriptures, not this world's religions, should be who teaches me about God.

Correction in my post.

 

[atpollard]

John 17: 4 I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do. 5 And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee "before the world was".

I get that the image of Jesus, with His Long flowing hair and perfect profile who wasn't a Flesh and Blood "man of Faith" is a popular image, and "many" who come in Christ's Name promote this Jesus, who was "Fully God".

Jesus had GLORY (Jesus' Glory) along with the FATHER (and the Father's Glory) BEFORE THE WORLD WAS!

Seriously, exactly what sort of man has innate GLORY alongside GOD prior to Genesis 1:1!
I was just focusing on a few things Jesus said ... you are posting even clearer evidence of NOT A MAN as your proof that Jesus was JUST A MAN.

I am finding it hard to take this serious. I have to wonder if you are "punking" me?

 

[atpollard]

Yes, God sent His Son Jesus. And Jesus gave us God's Words, and came to do God's Will, "NOT HIS OWN".

NOT WHAT IT SAYS ...

• John 17:21 [NASB] that they may all be one; even as You, Father, [COMMAND] Me and I [OBEY] You, that they also may [FOLLOW] Us, so that the world may believe that You sent Me.

WHAT IT SAYS ...

• John 17:21 [NASB] that they may all be one; even as You, Father, are in Me and I in You, that they also may be in Us, so that the world may believe that You sent Me.

Jesus is claiming EQUALITY and COMPLETE UNITY with GOD as GOD.

 

[Bob Carabbio]

I truly understand what this world's religions teach about Jesus being immortal, and mortal at the same time. I just don't believe the Scriptures promote that Jesus, for the reasons I outlined.


Jesus is exactly like us because like us, HE too had the choice to refuse the evil, and do the good.

Jesus is nothing like us because HE never chose the evil, and we have.

The point being, He, the Jesus "of the Bible", didn't cheat as a man resisting temptation by kicking in God powers no other human has ever had access to. And yet, the Jesus promoted by this world's religions did just that, and they preach God was a party to this deception. I agree that there is a mystery, I just don't find where Jesus ever said He, as a man, was fully God. He prayed to God, He is not at the right hand of God, spoke God's Words and not His own, He walked in the Works God before ordained that men should walk in them.

But He, that is, the Jesus "of the Bible" never claimed He was immortal God.

Matt. 19: 16 And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life? 17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.

I know I am bucking ancient religious traditions and philosophy promoted by "many" who come in Christ's Name, who call Jesus Lord, Lord. I have just come to believe that Scriptures, not this world's religions, should be who teaches me about God.

And the Scriptures indicate that Jesus is the manifestation in flesh of the "WORD", who is God (John 1:14), so when Jesus says I and my Father are ONE (john 10:30), it can be taken literally. That we have NO REAL IDEA of the totality of Jesus, OR of God is a given.

 

[Studyman]

And the Scriptures indicate that Jesus is the manifestation in flesh of the "WORD", who is God (John 1:14), so when Jesus says I and my Father are ONE (john 10:30), it can be taken literally.

So to align myself with the philosophies of this world's mainstream religions, who have created an image of God in the likeness of some random handsome long haired man, who they preach is "Fully God", I am to take this John 10:30 "literally". In your opinion, this means whenever the Bible says to become one with my wife, this means I am the wife. So when Jesus says He is One with His Father, He "IS His Father".

But when this SAME Christ said; John 14: 28 Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father "is greater than I".

I can't take these Words of the Same Christ literally, in fact, I must completely ignore them as unimportant and irrelevant in order to align myself with popular religious philosophy. This same Christ said the following as well.

John 13: 16 Verily, verily, I say unto you, The servant is not greater than his lord; "neither he that is sent" greater than he that sent him.

To believe you and Civic and other preachers who call Jesus Lord, I would have to believe Jesus is contradicting Himself, and was not a Man of Faith who humbled Himself in obedience to God, His Father.

Is. 48: 16 Come ye near unto me, hear ye this; I have not spoken in secret from the beginning; from the time that it was, there am I: and now the Lord GOD, and his Spirit, hath sent me. 17 Thus saith the LORD, thy Redeemer, the Holy One of Israel; I am the LORD thy God which teacheth thee to profit, which leadeth thee by the way that thou shouldest go.

Is Jesus not God's Servant, who came to bring to men, "God's Word"? Is this not the same Christ that His God sent, "Let there be Light"??

1 Cor. 11: 3 But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head "of Christ" is God. This would be the Lord God of the Lord's Christ, Yes?

My issue with modern religions, who call Jesus Lord, Lord, is founded in the difference between what they teach for doctrines and philosophies, and what the scriptures actually say.

That we have NO REAL IDEA of the totality of Jesus, OR of God is a given.

We have been given quite a lot of trustworthy information about who Jesus was as pertaining to Him and His Father. I agree that we don't know everything about Him or His Father. But I do believe we should believe and accept "ALL" of the Christ's Words, as opposed to adopting the philosophies of various religious sects and businesses of this world as they compete for contributing members to fill the seats of their manmade shrines of worship.

 

[Studyman]

• John 17:21 [NASB] that they may all be one; even as You, Father, are in Me and I in You, that they also may be in Us, so that the world may believe that You sent Me.

Jesus is claiming EQUALITY and COMPLETE UNITY with GOD "as GOD".

That is what you and the Pope teaches. But the Jesus of the Bible Himself said;

John 13: 16 Verily, verily, I say unto you, The servant is not greater than his lord; "neither he that is sent" greater than he that sent him.

And again;

"John 14: 28 Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father "is greater than I".

Yes, that the men of the world might know that it was the God and Father of the Lord's Christ who Sent HIM, and His Father is greater than HE. At least this is what the Jesus "of the Bible" teaches. And therefore, Jesus wants to reconcile us to His Father.

John 17: 3 And this is life eternal, that they might "know thee" the only true God, and "Jesus Christ", whom thou hast sent. 4 I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do.

Why would I abandon these Words of the Lord's Christ, just so I can adopt the philosophies of this world's religions? By the Grace and the teaching of God I have escaped these "many" religions founded on the words of men who "Transform themselves" into apostles of Christ.

Doesn't the Scriptures warn me of this very thing?

 

[Studyman]

Jesus had GLORY (Jesus' Glory) along with the FATHER (and the Father's Glory) BEFORE THE WORLD WAS!

Yes, God Sent His Son, the Light of the World, in the very beginning. I have said nothing to the contrary.

Seriously, exactly what sort of man has innate GLORY alongside GOD prior to Genesis 1:1!

LOL, I don't think Christ was a "Man" when HE created all that was created. Nor was HE a man when HE fed and watered Israel, nor was HE a "man" when HE was "up where HE was before" He became a man. But HE did become a flesh and blood mortal, "after those days". At least, the Christ "of the bible" did.

I was just focusing on a few things Jesus said ... you are posting even clearer evidence of NOT A MAN as your proof that Jesus was JUST A MAN.

You are demeaning His Sacrifice as not a sacrifice at all. That He overcame sin and temptation, not because HE, as a man, Humbled Himself in obedience to God, but because HE came to earth, not as a man, but as "Fully God" and overcame sin and temptation because He wasn't a man, but a "supernatural being" with powers no other human has ever had access to.

Perhaps if you focused on everything Jesus said, instead of only a few things He said that you can use to preserve popular religious philosophy, you might come away with an understanding that doesn't contradict Scriptures.

I am finding it hard to take this serious. I have to wonder if you are "punking" me?

That is fascinating. I post God's Words, Jesus' Words, even some of Paul's words, and you think I'm punking you. And why? Because I don't believe the Scriptures support ancient Catholic doctrine?

 

[Bob Carabbio]

So to align myself with the philosophies of this world's mainstream religions

THAT'S YOUR FIRST MISTAKE. The "world's mainstrem religions" don't necessarily mean SPIT.

 

[Studyman]

THAT'S YOUR FIRST MISTAKE. The "world's mainstrem religions" don't necessarily mean SPIT.

Apparently, this world's mainstream religions don't mean spit to you. But to the Jesus "of the Bible", HE was quite worried about them for our sakes.

Matt. 24: 4 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that "no man" deceive you. 5 For many shall come in my name, saying, I (Jesus) am Christ; and shall deceive many.

And again;

Matt. 7: 22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? 23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

And again;

Matt. 6: 1 Take heed that ye do not your alms before men, to be seen of them: otherwise ye have no reward of your Father which is in heaven. 2 Therefore when thou doest thine alms, do not sound a trumpet before thee, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and in the streets, that they may have glory of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward.

5 And when thou prayest, thou shalt not be as the hypocrites are: for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward. 6 But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret; and thy Father which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly.

I simply advocate that we listen to HIM, and not those "Many" who come in His Name, or as Paul teaches, those who "Transforms themselves" into apostles of Christ, especially concerning who Jesus Himself said HE was in relationship to His Father.

His Words that I posted, but you refused to acknowledge. I think the mistake is listening to this world's "mainstream preachers" who "come in Christ's Name". At least, this is the warning of the Jesus "of the bible".

 

[Bob Carabbio]

Apparently, this world's mainstream religions don't mean spit to you. But to the Jesus "of the Bible", HE was quite worried about them for our sakes.

Matt. 24: 4 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that "no man" deceive you. 5 For many shall come in my name, saying, I (Jesus) am Christ; and shall deceive many.

And again;

Matt. 7: 22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? 23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

And again;

Matt. 6: 1 Take heed that ye do not your alms before men, to be seen of them: otherwise ye have no reward of your Father which is in heaven. 2 Therefore when thou doest thine alms, do not sound a trumpet before thee, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and in the streets, that they may have glory of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward.

5 And when thou prayest, thou shalt not be as the hypocrites are: for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward. 6 But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret; and thy Father which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly.

I simply advocate that we listen to HIM, and not those "Many" who come in His Name, or as Paul teaches, those who "Transforms themselves" into apostles of Christ, especially concerning who Jesus Himself said HE was in relationship to His Father.

His Words that I posted, but you refused to acknowledge. I think the mistake is listening to this world's "mainstream preachers" who "come in Christ's Name". At least, this is the warning of the Jesus "of the bible".

The FIRST MISTAKE is not being familiar with the Biblical record. Biblical ignorance makes one FAIR GAME for deception.

 

[Bob Carabbio]

Apparently, this world's mainstream religions don't mean spit to you. But to the Jesus "of the Bible", HE was quite worried about them for our sakes.

Because HE, and Paul knew how RAPIDLY man's religious theology would go astray. Look at Roman Catholicism, and the sheer number of paople caught in that heretical monstrosity which pays NO ATTENTION to the Bible (that they claim to have produced), and instead have incorporated ALL SORTS of pagan corruption, and phony theology that teaches "Jesus PLUS" any number of meaningless foolish beliefs.

I think the mistake is listening to this world's "mainstream preachers" who "come in Christ's Name". At least, this is the warning of the Jesus "of the bible".

In reality the MISTAKE is remaining IGNORANT of what the Bible says. When you have no Biblical knowledge, the "Mainstream preachers" (who aren't ALL PHONY) will be impossible to sort out.

 

[Studyman]

Because HE, and Paul knew how RAPIDLY man's religious theology would go astray. Look at Roman Catholicism, and the sheer number of paople caught in that heretical monstrosity which pays NO ATTENTION to the Bible (that they claim to have produced), and instead have incorporated ALL SORTS of pagan corruption, and phony theology that teaches "Jesus PLUS" any number of meaningless foolish beliefs.

In reality the MISTAKE is remaining IGNORANT of what the Bible says. When you have no Biblical knowledge, the "Mainstream preachers" (who aren't ALL PHONY) will be impossible to sort out.

You seem to have a mixed message here. First you rebuke me, claiming I'm making a mistake because I am cautious of the philosophy and doctrines of "mainstream religions" of this world, specifically that in the religion you have adopted and are promoting, I am to take John 10:30 "literally", so when Jesus says HE is one with the Father, in your religion this means literally that HE, as the man Jesus, "IS" the Father.

But when I post other Inspired Words of God in which Jesus also defines His Relationship with His Father, like John 14:28, or John 13:16, and a host of others, I am not allowed, in your religion, to take these words of the Christ "of the Bible" literally. In fact, it's almost as if you aren't allowed to even discuss them. Rather, you rebuke me for even pointing them out and asking questions regarding the religious philosophy that ignores them.

This is a popular practice of this world's religions, where those who promote them tell others which verses or parts of the Bible are important, and which ones are not. Which ones to take literally and which ones I can't take literally. This is done my many "mainstream religious sects" of this world, which would include the Catholic religion, and her Protestant daughters who broke away from her, but kept her high days, kept her sabbaths, kept her religious business model, and kept her image of God in the likeness of some random men's hair shampoo model, and many of her other traditions as well. You said, "they don't mean spit", in your rebuke of me.

But when I posted the Words of the Jesus "of the Bible" as HE warns of this very thing, you seem to change your preaching, and are now saying that it isn't a mistake, or means more than "Spit" to "take heed" of this world's "mainstream religions" which you yourself identify as promoting "ALL SORTS of pagan corruption, and phony theology that teaches "Jesus PLUS" any number of meaningless foolish beliefs".

I agree with you that without the Armor of God, which includes knowledge of the Scriptures, it would be difficult or even impossible to discern what doctrines, teachings and traditions of this world's religions are from the imagination of man, from the doctrines, teachings and traditions that are "Wrought in God".

But I would caution the brethren that it isn't enough to "know" or "hear" what is written. But to also believe the Word, all of it. Not just the words which can be used to support, preserve and promote Catholic doctrine and tradition, or those of some other religious sect. But to believe "Every" Word which proceeds from the mouth of God and His Son as we are instructed.

So, it is a Mistake in my view, to separate John 14:28, or John 13:16, from John 10:30. Or to believe one of the verses is true and to be taken literally, but not the other two. Or to create an entire philosophy founded on a literal translation of one verse, while ignoring, even rejecting other Words from the same Christ.

Nevertheless, it is good to have these discussions, given the religious influence that surrounds us all, in my view.

 

[Bob Carabbio]

Reader...

God requires faith in Christ before He gives you HIS "Gift of Salvation."

And even the FAITH that leads to salvation is God's Gift (Rom 10:17)

Jesus is not a Calvinist.

TRUE - Jesus isn't ANY "Systematic theology". HE's the perfect SIN OFFERING through which we are cleansed from our SIN.

Now, within everyone is the capacity to believe, as that is a "measure of Faith."

Misapplication. Faith (Rom 10:17 - Eph 2:8,9) is ALWAYS revelatory, and IS NOT "Belief", since "Belief has no "substance", and is "evidence" of nothing.

All have it.

Even right now unbelievers believe in something..... but that is wrong faith

Correction - it's not FAITH AT ALL - nothing but "mental assent".

 

[civic]

Jesus had GLORY (Jesus' Glory) along with the FATHER (and the Father's Glory) BEFORE THE WORLD WAS!

Seriously, exactly what sort of man has innate GLORY alongside GOD prior to Genesis 1:1!
I was just focusing on a few things Jesus said ... you are posting even clearer evidence of NOT A MAN as your proof that Jesus was JUST A MAN.

I am finding it hard to take this serious. I have to wonder if you are "punking" me?

Yep

 

[civic]

I didn't say "show me the Father". Jesus was perfect, even as His Father in heaven was perfect. As he also said, but you must also ignore,

John 10: 36 Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, "I am the Son of God?" 37 If I do not the works "of my Father", believe me not. 38 But if I do, though ye believe not me, believe the works: that ye may know, and believe, that the Father "is in me", and "I in him".

John 17: 4 I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do. 5 And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee "before the world was".

I get that the image of Jesus, with His Long flowing hair and perfect profile who wasn't a Flesh and Blood "man of Faith" is a popular image, and "many" who come in Christ's Name promote this Jesus, who was "Fully God".

But when a man actually reads what is written, Jesus came to do the Will of His Father and my Father. Not His Own. This is itself, exposes popular religious philosophy regarding Jesus claiming to be Fully God and foolishness, and a deception. I advocate that you might turn away from this world's religions and turn to the God and Father of the Lord's Christ, to be "Learned of the Father" that you might be given to the Jesus "of the Bible".



But even in your own bible, Jesus didn't say HE was God, "He said", not the children of the devil said, but the Jesus of the Bible Himself said "I am the Son of God". What I advocate for is listening to Jesus' Words, not the Pharisees or other popular religious men "Who Profess to know God".

It is written that the husband and wife shall become "ONE", just as the Church of God and God shall become one. It is also written;

1 Cor. 11: 3 But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God. And they shall be One.


Nothing in the Scriptures you posted, makes these verses void.


That we also might become "Son's of God" even as Jesus was the Son of God.

I believe every scripture you have posted. But none of them are Jesus calling Himself God, rather, Jesus Glorifies God. Prays to God, Comes to God, Humbles himself in obedience to God. Instead of laughing it up in mockery, perhaps you might take the Word of God a little more seriously.



Yes, God sent His Son Jesus. And Jesus gave us God's Words, and came to do God's Will, "NOT HIS OWN".

John 6: 38 For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.

39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.

40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth "the Son", and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.



A man should seek the Kingdom of God and HIS Righteousness, as the Jesus "of the Bible" instructs. Not seek justification for this world's religious philosophies, or the images of God they promote.

Now you are claiming Jesus was not fully God ?

 

[Studyman]

Now you are claiming Jesus was not fully God ?

I simply posted the Jesus "of the Bibles" own Words. I know you don't believe HE came in the Flesh.

 

[praise_yeshua]

I simply posted the Jesus "of the Bibles" own Words. I know you don't believe HE came in the Flesh.

The implications of what you write/say are important.

Christ never divested Himself of the qualties of Divinity in the Incarnation. He simply willingly chose not to avail Himself of such. This the very definition of humility.

 

[civic]

I simply posted the Jesus "of the Bibles" own Words. I know you don't believe HE came in the Flesh.

I knew there was something off you just confessed the spirit of antichrist as per 1 John 4:3, 2 John 7

 

[TomL]

And even the FAITH that leads to salvation is God's Gift (Rom 10:17)

Um there is no mention of a gift in Rom 10:17

 

[Studyman]

I knew there was something off you just confessed the spirit of antichrist as per 1 John 4:3, 2 John 7

What else do you have but more deceptions? I simply posted the Jesus "of the Bibles" own Words. I can't make you believe in Him.

John 10: 36 Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, "I am the Son of God?" 37 If I do not the works "of my Father", believe me not. 38 But if I do, though ye believe not me, believe the works: that ye may know, and believe, that the Father "is in me", and "I in him".

John 17: 4 I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do. 5 And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee "before the world was".