Right Faith..vs Wrong Faith

[Studyman]

The implications of what you write/say are important.

Christ never divested Himself of the qualties of Divinity in the Incarnation. He simply willingly chose not to avail Himself of such. This the very definition of humility.

Matt. 19: 17 John 17: 3

This world's religions have created an image of God in the likeness of some random, handsome longhaired man. According to many self-proclaimed "ministers of righteousness", this manmade image had powers to overcome sin on earth that God did not grant to any other human. So when the going got tough, or when He was tempted as all men are tempted, He just kicked in a little God Power no other human had ever had access too, and this is how HE overcame. And yet God gave Him a name above all humans, for only doing what any other human could have done, had they been given the same power.

It's like God was a coach and His Son was on the team. But His Son was given by the coach, performance enhancing drugs, while the rest of the team were forbidden to take them. And then when the Son outperformed all the others, He received from His Father, the coach, all the glory and the Trophy and the honor.

I don't believe the Holy Scriptures promote such a religious philosophy about God and His Son. It demeans the sacrifice Jesus made to keep Himself from sin, and discredits God as an unjust God.

I do agree with your statement about the Humility of Christ though. I just believe HE came in the Flesh, like unto His Brethren.

 

[civic]

The implications of what you write/say are important.

Christ never divested Himself of the qualties of Divinity in the Incarnation. He simply willingly chose not to avail Himself of such. This the very definition of humility.

Spot on

 

[praise_yeshua]

Matt. 19: 17 John 17: 3

This world's religions have created an image of God in the likeness of some random, handsome longhaired man. According to many self-proclaimed "ministers of righteousness", this manmade image had powers to overcome sin on earth that God did not grant to any other human. So when the going got tough, or when He was tempted as all men are tempted, He just kicked in a little God Power no other human had ever had access too, and this is how HE overcame. And yet God gave Him a name above all humans, for only doing what any other human could have done, had they been given the same power.

It's like God was a coach and His Son was on the team. But His Son was given by the coach, performance enhancing drugs, while the rest of the team were forbidden to take them. And then when the Son outperformed all the others, He received from His Father, the coach, all the glory and the Trophy and the honor.

I don't believe the Holy Scriptures promote such a religious philosophy about God and His Son. It demeans the sacrifice Jesus made to keep Himself from sin, and discredits God as an unjust God.

I do agree with your statement about the Humility of Christ though. I just believe HE came in the Flesh, like unto His Brethren.

He died for us. Just like ANY MAN..... He suffered. In all pointed tempted like we are....

It was the Divine Nature that made Him MORE than simply a man. To remove such from the Incarnation is to discredit the value of His sacrifice. It wasn't just any man that died. It was God Incarnate.... tasting death for all of us that made the difference. You should reconsider your position. We can discuss the necessity of Divinity within the Incarnation if you like.

 

[TomL]

Matt. 19: 17 John 17: 3

This world's religions have created an image of God in the likeness of some random, handsome longhaired man. According to many self-proclaimed "ministers of righteousness", this manmade image had powers to overcome sin on earth that God did not grant to any other human. So when the going got tough, or when He was tempted as all men are tempted, He just kicked in a little God Power no other human had ever had access too, and this is how HE overcame. And yet God gave Him a name above all humans, for only doing what any other human could have done, had they been given the same power.

It's like God was a coach and His Son was on the team. But His Son was given by the coach, performance enhancing drugs, while the rest of the team were forbidden to take them. And then when the Son outperformed all the others, He received from His Father, the coach, all the glory and the Trophy and the honor.

I don't believe the Holy Scriptures promote such a religious philosophy about God and His Son. It demeans the sacrifice Jesus made to keep Himself from sin, and discredits God as an unjust God.

I do agree with your statement about the Humility of Christ though. I just believe HE came in the Flesh, like unto His Brethren.

You do what with this?

John 1:1–18 (KJV 1900) — 1 IN the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 The same was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. 4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men. 5 And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not. 6 There was a man sent from God, whose name was John. 7 The same came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all men through him might believe. 8 He was not that Light, but was sent to bear witness of that Light. 9 That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world. 10 He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not. 11 He came unto his own, and his own received him not. 12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: 13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God. 14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth. 15 John bare witness of him, and cried, saying, This was he of whom I spake, He that cometh after me is preferred before me: for he was before me. 16 And of his fulness have all we received, and grace for grace. 17 For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ. 18 No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.

 

[civic]

What else do you have but more deceptions? I simply posted the Jesus "of the Bibles" own Words. I can't make you believe in Him.

John 10: 36 Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, "I am the Son of God?" 37 If I do not the works "of my Father", believe me not. 38 But if I do, though ye believe not me, believe the works: that ye may know, and believe, that the Father "is in me", and "I in him".

John 17: 4 I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do. 5 And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee "before the world was".

The number one test to distinguish truth for error and the Spirit of God from that of the spirit of antichrist is the confession of our divine Lord Jesus Christ. Every spirit that confesses Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God. There is one thing the spirit of antichrist will deny and that is they will deny He is God in the flesh- that He is fully God and fully man. They will deny God in human flesh. They will always deny the Incarnation which was permanent. When a person affirms that Jesus Christ is God in flesh that equates to divine truth. Every spirit that confesses meaning to continually confess or agrees with saying the same thing as John declares in his writings is from God. This is the person who is taught by the Spirit of God according to John. The first test that you want to have for any teacher is their Christology, check out what they say about Christ. This becomes a litmus test that is very easy to spot among the false teachers in the N.T. times which we can apply today. If you have somebody who denies the deity of Christ you have a clear indication their teaching comes from the spirit of antichrist.

If we go back to the beginning of 1 John, we read that which we he beheld, and actually touched concerning the Word of life. That is a term expressing the very deity of Christ. Christ emanates from God as His living Word. He was with the Father in the beginning in 1:2. Jesus was One with the Father sharing the same essence with the Father in heaven with Him before the foundation of the world. John says He was manifested to us. John's language then starts out with the fact that Jesus Christ emanates from God as the very living Word of God. Jesus is the living Word of God,the One John says that was from the beginning that we heard, we saw and we touched. Jesus the Word of life was the eternal One who was with the Father prior to His Incarnation and was then manifested to us in the flesh that we could see and hear and touch according to John. Therefore, we can clearly see Jesus is the very Word of God Incarnate. He is the eternal life who became flesh. The Word who was with God, the Word who was God, was the One who John says was manifested to us. This is how we can tell the spirit of truth from the spirit of antichrist. Can you confess Jesus is God Incarnate?

1 John 4:2
By this you know the Spirit of God: every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God;

2 John 7
For many deceivers have gone out into the world, those who do not acknowledge Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh. This is the deceiver and the antichrist.

Erchomenon the present participle in 2 John 7

Alford- the present tense is timeless(pg 274 RNTC on 2 John)

Brooke- the Incarnation is not only an event in history, it is an abiding truth(pg 274 RNTC on 2 John)

Stott- the two natures manhood and Godhood were united already at His birth, never to be divided. In 1 John 4:2 and here in 2 John 7 emphasizes this permanent union of the natures in the One Person ( TNTC pages 209-210) He who denies the Incarnation is not just a deceiver and an antichrist but “the deceiver and the antichrist”. There is in this heresy a double affront: it opposes Christ and deceives men.(stott TNCT page 210)

Marshall- the use of the present and perfect tenses becomes significant if the point is that Jesus Christ had come and still existed “in flesh”. For him(John) it was axiomatic that there had been a true Incarnation, that the word became flesh and remained flesh. It is a point that receives much stress in 1 John 2:18-28;4:1-6;5:5-8. (NICNT pages 70-71)

Smalley- the present tense emphasizes the permanent union of the human and Divine natures in Jesus. Gods self disclosure in Jesus took place at a particular moment in history , but it has continuing effects in the present and into the future(Word Biblical Commentary page 317)

Nicoll- the continuous manifestation of the Incarnate Christ(Expositors Greek Testament Volume 5 page 202)

Akin- Much has been made of the fact that John uses the present tense in this Christological confession. Literally the verse reads, “Jesus Christ coming in flesh.” “Coming” is a present active participle. This stands out in remarkable contrast to the affirmation of 1 John 4:2, where the text states that “Jesus Christ has [emphasis mine] come in the flesh.” There the perfect active participle is used. The key, it seems, is to discover what John is affirming. Here in 2 John the emphasis falls on the abiding reality of the incarnation. First John 4:2 teaches that the Christ, the Father’s Son (v. 3), has come in the flesh. Second John affirms that the wedding of deity and humanity has an abiding reality (cf. 1 Tim 2:5). The ontological and essential nature of the incarnation that would receive eloquent expression one thousand years later in the writing of St. Anselm (1033–1109) in his classic Cur Deus Homo is already present in seed form in the tiny and neglected letter of 2 John.

Lenski- In 1 John 4:2 we have ἐν σαρκὶ ἐληλυθότα, the perfect participle, “as having come in flesh” (incarnate, John 1:14); here we have ἐρχόμενον ἐν σαρκί, “as coming in flesh,” although the participle is present in form it is really timeless.of Christ as "still being manifested." See the note at 1 John 3:5. In 1 John 4:2 we have the manifestation treated as a past fact by the perfect tense, ‎eleeluthota ‎"has come

Robertson- That Jesus Christ cometh in the flesh ‎Ieesoun ‎‎Christon ‎‎erchomenon ‎‎en ‎‎sarki‎. "Jesus Christ coming in the flesh." Present middle participle of ‎erchomai ‎treating the Incarnation as a continuing fact which the Docetic Gnostics flatly denied. In 1 John 4:2 we have ‎eleeluthota ‎(perfect active participle) in this same construction with ‎homologeoo‎, because there the reference is to the definite historical fact of the Incarnation

 

[Studyman]

He died for us. Just like ANY MAN..... He suffered. In all pointed tempted like we are....

It was the Divine Nature that made Him MORE than simply a man. To remove such from the Incarnation is to discredit the value of His sacrifice. It wasn't just any man that died. It was God Incarnate.... tasting death for all of us that made the difference. You should reconsider your position. We can discuss the necessity of Divinity within the Incarnation if you like.

Given your post, it is clear you don't know my position, so before you judge it, perhaps I should share it with you.

Christ, that is, the Christ "of the Bible", the Holy One of Israel who said God sent Him, "To show men in the way that they should go", became a mortal man, according to the Scriptures. He risked His Immortality for me, according to the Scriptures. He knew that this world's men who "Professed to Know God" would murder HIM, just as they murdered the Prophets before Him, but He came anyway. He knew that exposing their manmade doctrines, philosophies and traditions would anger them and cause them to hurt Him and kill His followers, but He exposed them anyway. He knew "Many", would come in His Name to deceive others after HE ascended, "up to His Father and my Father, where HE was before", but HE ascended anyway.

The deceiver teaches that HE was "Fully God", immortal God with power no other "man" was allowed to have, and HE overcame the Sin of this world, not because HE was a man who had Faith in His Father, but because HE was "Fully God" and didn't come in the flesh. And this to justify their false gospel that God placed impossible commandments on the necks of men who trusted Him, commandments no man can obey, only God. So the Christ, in their religion, CANNOT be mortal flesh and blood. So they create their own image of Him.

I know who HE was, and that His Death reconciled men to His Father who sent Him. But it is HIS LIFE, that saves me. As it is written;

Matt. 4: 4 But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by "every word" that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.

Not just the Words of God HE gave to us as the man Jeshua, but also the Words of God HE gave as the Holy One of Israel, the Rock.

Remember my friend, the death of the Passover Lamb reconciled over 600,000 men, a mixed multitude with their wives and children to God, "While they were yet in Egypt" (sin). But only 2 of them "Yielded themselves" servants to obey God. It is the Life of the Lamb that saves men, at least according to Scriptures.

 

[civic]

Given your post, it is clear you don't know my position, so before you judge it, perhaps I should share it with you.

Christ, that is, the Christ "of the Bible", the Holy One of Israel who said God sent Him, "To show men in the way that they should go", became a mortal man, according to the Scriptures. He risked His Immortality for me, according to the Scriptures. He knew that this world's men who "Professed to Know God" would murder HIM, just as they murdered the Prophets before Him, but He came anyway. He knew that exposing their manmade doctrines, philosophies and traditions would anger them and cause them to hurt Him and kill His followers, but He exposed them anyway. He knew "Many", would come in His Name to deceive others after HE ascended, "up to His Father and my Father, where HE was before", but HE ascended anyway.

The deceiver teaches that HE was "Fully God", immortal God with power no other "man" was allowed to have, and HE overcame the Sin of this world, not because HE was a man who had Faith in His Father, but because HE was "Fully God" and didn't come in the flesh. And this to justify their false gospel that God placed impossible commandments on the necks of men who trusted Him, commandments no man can obey, only God. So the Christ, in their religion, CANNOT be mortal flesh and blood. So they create their own image of Him.

I know who HE was, and that His Death reconciled men to His Father who sent Him. But it is HIS LIFE, that saves me. As it is written;

Matt. 4: 4 But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by "every word" that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.

Not just the Words of God HE gave to us as the man Jeshua, but also the Words of God HE gave as the Holy One of Israel, the Rock.

Remember my friend, the death of the Passover Lamb reconciled over 600,000 men, a mixed multitude with their wives and children to God, "While they were yet in Egypt" (sin). But only 2 of them "Yielded themselves" servants to obey God. It is the Life of the Lamb that saves men, at least according to Scriptures.

you not only confess a false gospel ( obedience to the law) but also a false christ. in my previous post I outlined you confess the very spirit of antichrist denying Christ came in the flesh and remains in the flesh as a man. A combination of Gnosticism combined with legalism ( Judaizer)Twice as deadly.

 

[civic]

What else do you have but more deceptions? I simply posted the Jesus "of the Bibles" own Words. I can't make you believe in Him.

John 10: 36 Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, "I am the Son of God?" 37 If I do not the works "of my Father", believe me not. 38 But if I do, though ye believe not me, believe the works: that ye may know, and believe, that the Father "is in me", and "I in him".

John 17: 4 I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do. 5 And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee "before the world was".

All the fullness of Deity, He was fully God lacking nothing according to Scripture during His earthly life and after His Ascension. He always has been fully God and always will be fully God according to Scripture.

All the Fulness of Deity dwells in Him (permanently) as per Colossians 1:19 and Colossians 2:9. This is how the passage reads and how it is to be understood in its " CONTEXT " from Colossians 1:19;2:9 concerning Christ being fully God lacking nothing in His Divinity while on this earth and His Ascension and also His humanity which remains permanent. The Incarnation was not temporal but Christ remains forever God in the flesh. All the fulness of Deity remains bodily.

In Colossians 1:19 and Colossians 2:9 the Apostle Paul said, For in HIM (CHRIST) ALL of the “ fullness of deity dwells bodily. “Did Paul use the word fullness there to mean partially? NO as Jesus did not empty Himself of His Deity. Jesus Divinity is FULL, complete lacking in nothing. The ENTIRE Fullness of Deity dwells (is present) bodily in Jesus. In Colossians 1:19 it is describing His earthly ministry and Colossians 2:9 it is describing His Post Resurrection/Ascension Glory as God Incarnate.

Colossians 1:19-20
For it was the Father’s good pleasure for all the fullness to dwell in Him,20 and through Him to reconcile all things to Himself, having made peace through the blood of His cross; through Him, I say, whether things on earth or things in heaven

Colossians 2:9-10- For in Him all the fullness of Deity dwells in bodily form,10 and in Him you have been made complete, and He is the head over all rule and authority;

Colossians 3:1- Therefore if you have been raised up with Christ, keep seeking the things above, where Christ is, seated at the right hand of God.

Paul is talking in Colossians chapters 2-3 about the glorified resurrected Christ now seated at the right hand of God not the earthly Christ pre resurrection. This is a slam dunk that He is in a human glorified resurrection body and that He continues to have all the fullness of Deity dwelling bodily in the present.

Now read the Greek below on the present ongoing meaning of DWELLS . The bodily dwelling of Deity is permanent not temporary. The Incarnation was PERMANENT.

κατοικεῖ (katoikei)
Verb - Present Indicative Active - 3rd Person Singular
Strong's Greek 2730: To dwell in, settle in, be established in (permanently), inhabit. From kata and oikeo; to house permanently, i.e. Reside.
8.2 σωματικός, ή, όν; σωματικῶςa: (derivatives of σῶμαa ‘body,’ 8.1) pertaining to a physical body—‘bodily, physical, bodily form.’[1] Louw Nida


Expositor's Greek Testament
Colossians 2:9. in Him and in Him alone.—κατοικεῖ: “permanently dwells”. The reference is to the Exalted State, not only on account of the present, but of the context and Paul’s Christology generally.—πᾶν τὸ πλήρωμα τῆς θεότητος: “all the fulness of the Godhead”. πᾶν is emphatic, the whole fulness dwells in Christ.

“Dwelleth” is katoikei (κατοικει). Oikeō (Ὀικεω) means “to be at home.” Kata (Κατα), prefixed, means “down,” thus showing permanence. The compound verb was used of the permanent residents of a town as compared with the transient community. The verb is in the present tense, showing durative action. The translation reads: “Because in Him there is continuously and permanently at home all the fulness of the Godhead in bodily fashion.”

conclusion: you have a wrong faith a false gospel like the Judaizers and a false christ the very spirit of antichrist as per 1 John 4:2-3, 2 John 1:7. Paul points this out in Galatians 1-2 as well.

hope this helps !!!

 

[Studyman]

The number one test to distinguish truth for error and the Spirit of God from that of the spirit of antichrist is the confession of our divine Lord Jesus Christ. Every spirit that confesses Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God.

But you profess to anyone who will listen to you, that Jesus Christ wasn't a mortal flesh and blood man. Because, as you also preach, God's LAWS are impossible for any "man" to obey, so since Jesus obeyed His Father and my Father, He could not have, in your adopted religion, come as mortal Flesh.

There is one thing the spirit of antichrist will deny and that is they will deny He is God in the flesh- that He is fully God and fully man.

Here is what the Scriptures actually say.

2 John 2: 7 For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist. 8 Look to yourselves, that we lose not those things which we have wrought, but that we receive a full reward. 9 Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, "hath not God". He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son. 10 If there come any unto you, "and bring not this doctrine", receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed:

They will deny God in human flesh.

Then why do you always preach that Jesus as a man, was immortal God "fully"? Your own words.

They will always deny the Incarnation which was permanent.

So in this world's religions you have adopted and are now promoting, Jesus wasn't murdered, HE didn't actually die in your religion, because HE was immortal God that looked like a man. You guys even created your own image of Him after the imagination of your own hearts. Handsome, perfect profile, long hair. You preach He didn't "Law down His Life" for anyone, because HE was "Fully immortal God" and therefore couldn't die, couldn't sin, couldn't be deceived. In your adopted religion, the whole thing was a scam, holly wood, Jesus didn't "Lay down His Life" for anyone. He risked nothing for no one. He was "fully God"

And when Jesus Himself says, "17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments" you imply HE is Lying. When Jesus says; 17 "Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.

You imply HE is lying to us here as well. Just as you promote His Father as a Liar, who placed a Yokje of bondage on the necks of men who would place their Faith in Him.

Jesus said to "Take Heed" of this exact thing Civic. Why don't you hear His Words?

The Jesus "of the bible" was the Holy One of Israel, who came to earth as a mortal man, who through "FAITH" in God, overcame this world. And did so, as prophesied, to show men "in the way that they should go".

Is. 48: 16 Come ye near unto me, hear ye this; I have not spoken in secret from the beginning; from the time that it was, there am I: and now the Lord GOD, and his Spirit, hath sent me.

17 Thus saith the LORD, thy Redeemer, the "Holy One of Israel"; I am the LORD thy God which teacheth thee to profit, which leadeth thee by the way that thou shouldest go. 18 O that thou hadst hearkened to my commandments! then had thy peace been as a river, and thy righteousness as the waves of the sea:

But you are on a mission to convince as many as possible that "obedience to this God is a False Doctrine".

Jesus warned of these "many" who come in His Name.

 

[Studyman]

you not only confess a false gospel ( obedience to the law) but also a false christ. in my previous post I outlined you confess the very spirit of antichrist denying Christ came in the flesh and remains in the flesh as a man. A combination of Gnosticism combined with legalism ( Judaizer)Twice as deadly.

The serpent convinced Eve of the exact same philosophy that you are peddling. "Obedience to God is a false doctrine". Yes, your religion is seductive, no laws to "yield yourself a servant to obey", and there is good money in it, you get to judge and insult the God and Father of the Lord's Christ as a liar and deceiver.

But I'm sticking to the Christ "of the Bible".

 

[civic]

The serpent convinced Eve of the exact same philosophy that you are peddling. "Obedience to God is a false doctrine". Yes, your religion is seductive, no laws to "yield yourself a servant to obey", and there is good money in it, you get to judge and insult the God and Father of the Lord's Christ as a liar and deceiver.

But I'm sticking to the Christ "of the Bible".

projecting as its you who has the false gospel just the same as the Judaizers Paul warned about in Galatians and in Acts.

 

[Studyman]

All the fullness of Deity, He was fully God lacking nothing according to Scripture during His earthly life and after His Ascension. He always has been fully God and always will be fully God according to Scripture.


All the Fulness of Deity dwells in Him (permanently) as per Colossians 1:19 and Colossians 2:9. This is how the passage reads and how it is to be understood in its " CONTEXT " from Colossians 1:19;2:9 concerning Christ being fully God lacking nothing in His Divinity while on this earth and His Ascension and also His humanity which remains permanent. The Incarnation was not temporal but Christ remains forever God in the flesh. All the fulness of Deity remains bodily.

Col. 1: 10 That ye might walk worthy of the Lord unto all pleasing, being fruitful "in every good work", and increasing in the knowledge of God;

By your own preaching, Paul is being a "Judaizer" here.

15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:

16 For by him were all things created, (God's LAWS included) that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: 17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist. 18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.

But in your religion, the Christ didn't create the Law and Prophets "to teach us in the way that we should go", HE came to destroy them. Your Jesus wasn't raised from the dead, because HE was immortal and couldn't die. Your Jesus wasn't the "firstborn from the dead", because He wasn't mortal flesh and couldn't die. Your Jesus risked nothing, laid down His Life for no one because HE wasn't mortal flesh. I don't worship this image of God you have adopted.

19 "For it pleased the Father that in him should all fulness dwell;"

Of course, HE was the image of God, the firstborn human raised from the dead. If God were a flesh and blood, mortal human, the Jesus "of the Bible" is who HE would be, as HE Himself teaches those who believe in Him as I do.

John 10: 34 Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods? 35 If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken; 36 Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God? 37 If I do not the works of my Father, believe me not. 38 But if I do, though ye believe not me, "believe the works": that ye may know, and believe, that the Father is in me, and I in him.

You take this one verse, "For it pleased the Father that in him should all fulness dwell;" isolate it, and then take it out of context to support your adopted religious philosophy that God is a liar, His Laws are a Yoke of bondage HE placed on the necks of men who trust Him. And Jesus walked in a false Gospel and promoted that we too, walk even as HE did.

I know it is your mission to convince others, as Eve was convinced, that God's Word is not trustworthy. And clearly you are not interested in discussing the Scriptures which expose this false gospel you have adopted, just as Calvinists and the Pharisees. You all have your own religion to peddle.

Nevertheless, it seems important to point out what the Scriptures actually say, for others who might also see the glaring hypocrisy in this world's mainstream religions who call Jesus Lord, Lord.

 

[civic]

Col. 1: 10 That ye might walk worthy of the Lord unto all pleasing, being fruitful "in every good work", and increasing in the knowledge of God;

By your own preaching, Paul is being a "Judaizer" here.

15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:

16 For by him were all things created, (God's LAWS included) that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: 17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist. 18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.

But in your religion, the Christ didn't create the Law and Prophets "to teach us in the way that we should go", HE came to destroy them. Your Jesus wasn't raised from the dead, because HE was immortal and couldn't die. Your Jesus wasn't the "firstborn from the dead", because He wasn't mortal flesh and couldn't die. Your Jesus risked nothing, laid down His Life for no one because HE wasn't mortal flesh. I don't worship this image of God you have adopted.

19 "For it pleased the Father that in him should all fulness dwell;"

Of course, HE was the image of God, the firstborn human raised from the dead. If God were a flesh and blood, mortal human, the Jesus "of the Bible" is who HE would be, as HE Himself teaches those who believe in Him as I do.

John 10: 34 Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods? 35 If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken; 36 Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God? 37 If I do not the works of my Father, believe me not. 38 But if I do, though ye believe not me, "believe the works": that ye may know, and believe, that the Father is in me, and I in him.

You take this one verse, "For it pleased the Father that in him should all fulness dwell;" isolate it, and then take it out of context to support your adopted religious philosophy that God is a liar, His Laws are a Yoke of bondage HE placed on the necks of men who trust Him. And Jesus walked in a false Gospel and promoted that we too, walk even as HE did.

I know it is your mission to convince others, as Eve was convinced, that God's Word is not trustworthy. And clearly you are not interested in discussing the Scriptures which expose this false gospel you have adopted, just as Calvinists and the Pharisees. You all have your own religion to peddle.

Nevertheless, it seems important to point out what the Scriptures actually say, for others who might also see the glaring hypocrisy in this world's mainstream religions who call Jesus Lord, Lord.

You doctrine is the same as the Judaizers who also denied Christ like you are doing. A denial of both the gospel and the Person and work of Christ.

You are projecting since you call Jesus lord but He is not your Lord ( Kurios, YHWH ). One and the same doctrine as the Pharisees in Matthew 23.

 

[Studyman]

You do what with this?

John 1:1–18 (KJV 1900) — 1 IN the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 The same was in the beginning with God.

David and I understand. "The LORD" said unto "my Lord", Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool.

Jesus confirms our understanding as well.

John 17: 3 And this is life eternal, that they might know "thee" the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.

And again,

John 20: 17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.

Shall I reject His Words because another voice in the garden God placed me in, "who professes to know God" doesn't believe them?

Did God not call and send His Son from the foundation of the world?

Gen. 1: 3 And "God" said, Let there be light: and there was light. 4 And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness.

Is HE not the Rock, the Holy One of Israel?

Is. 48: 16 Come ye near unto me, hear ye this; "I have not spoken in secret" from the beginning; from the time that it was, there am I: and now "the Lord GOD", and his Spirit, "hath sent me".

17Thus saith the LORD, thy Redeemer, the Holy One of Israel; I am the LORD thy God which teacheth thee to profit, which leadeth thee by the way that thou shouldest go.

18 O that thou hadst hearkened to my commandments! then had thy peace been as a river, and thy righteousness as the waves of the sea:

3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

So then, the Judgments of God, Statutes of God, Commandments and Laws of God, were created by the Holy One of Israel, the Light of this world for Him and by Him, to teach me in the way that I should go.

Shall I not then, if I say I believe in Him, not walk even as He walked, as the scriptures also teach?

1 John 2: 6 He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so "to walk", even as he walked.

And if I become a "Doer" of the Christ's Saying, and not a hearer only, how will I be received by the religions of this world? Will they not ridicule me, call me a "Judaizing legalist who denies the Christ", as they accused Paul and Jesus of teaching against God's very own Laws?

Jesus said they would. And I am a witness that His Word is true.

 

[civic]

You do what with this?

John 1:1–18 (KJV 1900) — 1 IN the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 The same was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. 4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men. 5 And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not. 6 There was a man sent from God, whose name was John. 7 The same came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all men through him might believe. 8 He was not that Light, but was sent to bear witness of that Light. 9 That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world. 10 He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not. 11 He came unto his own, and his own received him not. 12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: 13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God. 14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth. 15 John bare witness of him, and cried, saying, This was he of whom I spake, He that cometh after me is preferred before me: for he was before me. 16 And of his fulness have all we received, and grace for grace. 17 For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ. 18 No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.

He is a Unitarian

 

[civic]

David and I understand. "The LORD" said unto "my Lord", Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool.

Jesus confirms our understanding as well.

John 17: 3 And this is life eternal, that they might know "thee" the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.

And again,

John 20: 17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.

Shall I reject His Words because another voice in the garden God placed me in, "who professes to know God" doesn't believe them?

Did God not call and send His Son from the foundation of the world?

Gen. 1: 3 And "God" said, Let there be light: and there was light. 4 And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness.

Is HE not the Rock, the Holy One of Israel?

Is. 48: 16 Come ye near unto me, hear ye this; "I have not spoken in secret" from the beginning; from the time that it was, there am I: and now "the Lord GOD", and his Spirit, "hath sent me".

17Thus saith the LORD, thy Redeemer, the Holy One of Israel; I am the LORD thy God which teacheth thee to profit, which leadeth thee by the way that thou shouldest go.

18 O that thou hadst hearkened to my commandments! then had thy peace been as a river, and thy righteousness as the waves of the sea:


So then, the Judgments of God, Statutes of God, Commandments and Laws of God, were created by the Holy One of Israel, the Light of this world for Him and by Him, to teach me in the way that I should go.

Shall I not then, if I say I believe in Him, not walk even as He walked, as the scriptures also teach?

1 John 2: 6 He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so "to walk", even as he walked.

And if I become a "Doer" of the Christ's Saying, and not a hearer only, how will I be received by the religions of this world? Will they not ridicule me, call me a "Judaizing legalist who denies the Christ", as they accused Paul and Jesus of teaching against God's very own Laws?

Jesus said they would. And I am a witness that His Word is true.

Cherry picking verses removed from their context. John 17:3-5 is equality with the Father as co-Persons in eternal life found in them. And 17:5 shows He was together with the Father before creation which coincides with John 1:1-3 as co- creator with the Father. Also see Col 1, Heb 1:1-12, 1 Cor 8:6, Rev 4-5.

Next fallacy

 

[Studyman]

You doctrine is the same as the Judaizers who also denied Christ like you are doing. A denial of both the gospel and the Person and work of Christ.

You are projecting since you call Jesus lord but He is not your Lord ( Kurios, YHWH ). One and the same doctrine as the Pharisees in Matthew 23.

You preach falsehoods about the God and Father of the Lord's Christ without even blushing. I am a nobody, if you would judge God in such a wicked and evil manner, how much more will you judge a nobody like me.

Jesus said you were coming.

 

[Studyman]

Cherry picking verses removed from their context. John 17:3-5 is equality with the Father as co-Persons in eternal life found in them.

You and Kenneth Copeland have your adopted religions, I have the Word of God.

John 14: 28 Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.

1 Cor. 11: 3 But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God.

John 13: 15 For I have given you an example, that ye should do as I have done to you. 16 Verily, verily, I say unto you, The servant is not greater than his lord; neither he that is sent "greater than he that sent him".

Matt. 10: 24 The disciple is not above his master, nor the servant above his lord.

25 It is enough for the disciple that he "be as his master", and the servant "as his lord". If they have called the master of the house Beelzebub, how much more shall they call them of his household?

" You preach that God's Laws are a Yoke on Bondage HE placed on the necks of men that Trusted Him. And that "Being as Jesus", living by Every Word of God, is a false doctrine. If you Judge God in such a false and wicked way, how much more will you Judge mere men who trust Him?

Like I have said before, God saw you coming, and therefore warned me.

And 17:5 shows He was together with the Father before creation which coincides with John 1:1-3 as co- creator with the Father. Also see Col 1, Heb 1:1-12, 1 Cor 8:6, Rev 4-5.

That is my belief as well, the Christ, the Holy One of Israel, was there with His Father from the very beginning.

 

[civic]

You preach falsehoods about the God and Father of the Lord's Christ without even blushing. I am a nobody, if you would judge God in such a wicked and evil manner, how much more will you judge a nobody like me.

Jesus said you were coming.

You preach falsehoods about Christ the one and only Savior of the world. The Father is not the Savior, the Son is and you deny Him. He is the one that eternal life is found in and the source of life ( John 1:4). He is the only Sovereign and Lord( Jude 1:4). One cannot be saved unless they are His disciple, not the Fathers. One must obey His commands and give up everything to follow Him, not the Father. And the Holy Spirit points all believers to Christ to glorify Him, not the Father. The whole OT Jesus says was about Him not the Father.

You are on the wrong team just like those judaizers the Pharisees.

Next

 

[civic]

You and Kenneth Copeland have your adopted religions, I have the Word of God.

John 14: 28 Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.

1 Cor. 11: 3 But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God.

John 13: 15 For I have given you an example, that ye should do as I have done to you. 16 Verily, verily, I say unto you, The servant is not greater than his lord; neither he that is sent "greater than he that sent him".

Matt. 10: 24 The disciple is not above his master, nor the servant above his lord.

25 It is enough for the disciple that he "be as his master", and the servant "as his lord". If they have called the master of the house Beelzebub, how much more shall they call them of his household?

" You preach that God's Laws are a Yoke on Bondage HE placed on the necks of men that Trusted Him. And that "Being as Jesus", living by Every Word of God, is a false doctrine. If you Judge God in such a false and wicked way, how much more will you Judge mere men who trust Him?

Like I have said before, God saw you coming, and therefore warned me.



That is my belief as well, the Christ, the Holy One of Israel, was there with His Father from the very beginning.

Empty rhetoric