Refuting effectually caused faith
- Thread starter TomL
- Start date
brightfame52
Well-known member
Yes he is
brightfame52
Well-known member
We will see in the day of judgement
Bassnah
Member
You do not have to remain ignorant till then. Jesus will show you the truth.
Jesus told him, “I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one can come to the Father except through me. John 14:6
John 8:12
Once again, Jesus spoke to the people and said, “I am the light of the world. Whoever follows Me will never walk in the darkness, but will have the light of life.”
John 11:25
Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life. Whoever believes in Me will live, even though he dies.
God salvifically loves all of his humanity and has graciously provided for everyone to be able to receive the treasures of the gospel by simple faith. Just as God is perfect holiness and would, therefore, never be pleased to act unholy, he is also perfect love and mercy and would, therefore, not be pleased to withhold the offer of salvation from billions of his creation, thereby delightfully assuring their eternal doom in hell when he could have just as easily offered them salvation.
God is not pleased to predestine the incomputable majority of his humanity to spend forever in the crucible of hell’s torment, which torment, by comparison, makes the most shuddering, gruesome, ghastly, and torturous woes of crime or natural catastrophe nothing more than trifling annoyances. Other biblical approaches but not Calvinism embrace these truths.
brightfame52
Well-known member
Faith is Spiritual !
Faith is Spiritual , and its living [as in a lively hope 1 Pet 1:3] for it is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen ! This definition in and of itself confirms that the Natural Man cannot have Faith, because as so, we walk by sight 2 Cor 5:7
(For we walk by faith, not by sight )
Faith is the evidence of the Spiritual Life and without Spiritual Life there can be no Living Faith. The Blessed Saviour said once Jn 5:24
24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.
Jesus is not saying if one believes they will get Eternal Life, no but quite the opposite, rather He s saying, the one believing, already has Everlasting Life, for ones believing gives Evidence of having Everlasting Life ! For Faith or the act of Believing does not produce Life, but Rather Life produces Faith.
There is no Spiritual Persuasion to one who is yet spiritually dead and alienated from the Life of God, and consequently have no life in them Jn 6:53
Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you.
Eating and Drinking are metaphorically symbolizing Believing on Christ, appropriating Him, acts of life, and ones not doing that give evidence of having no life [Spiritual] in them ! Activity springs from life !
Jesus is not speaking of natural and physical life, for of course they had that !
Faith is Spiritual , and its living [as in a lively hope 1 Pet 1:3] for it is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen ! This definition in and of itself confirms that the Natural Man cannot have Faith, because as so, we walk by sight 2 Cor 5:7
(For we walk by faith, not by sight )
Faith is the evidence of the Spiritual Life and without Spiritual Life there can be no Living Faith. The Blessed Saviour said once Jn 5:24
24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.
Jesus is not saying if one believes they will get Eternal Life, no but quite the opposite, rather He s saying, the one believing, already has Everlasting Life, for ones believing gives Evidence of having Everlasting Life ! For Faith or the act of Believing does not produce Life, but Rather Life produces Faith.
There is no Spiritual Persuasion to one who is yet spiritually dead and alienated from the Life of God, and consequently have no life in them Jn 6:53
Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you.
Eating and Drinking are metaphorically symbolizing Believing on Christ, appropriating Him, acts of life, and ones not doing that give evidence of having no life [Spiritual] in them ! Activity springs from life !
Jesus is not speaking of natural and physical life, for of course they had that !
brightfame52
Well-known member
True Faith is the Gift of God and It is the product of divine power Eph 2:8
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Eph 1:19
19 And what is the exceeding greatness of his power to us-ward who believe, according to the working of his mighty power,
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Eph 1:19
19 And what is the exceeding greatness of his power to us-ward who believe, according to the working of his mighty power,
Bassnah
Member
The judgment of Judgment Day is carried out according to what individuals have done in their lives—they are judged according to their works. A person will not be judged according to what others did or didn’t do; he stands judgment alone, responsible for his own actions. So you will only see your own judgement, there is no we about it.
civic
Well-known member
ditto
brightfame52
Well-known member
Scriptures that indicate Faith/believing on Jesus Christ is induced by God,
Acts 13:48
48 And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed.
It was said of Lydia Acts 16:14
14 And a certain woman named Lydia, a seller of purple, of the city of Thyatira, which worshipped God, heard us: whose heart the Lord opened, that she attended unto the things which were spoken of Paul.
Phil 1:29
29 For unto you it is given in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for his sake;
If we have received the gift of faith from the Lord, dare we assume that any of the spiritual gifts which we have received is not obtained as a result of the work of Christ on the cross? If Christ died for each and every person, then the gift of faith would have been given to all.
Acts 13:48
48 And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed.
It was said of Lydia Acts 16:14
14 And a certain woman named Lydia, a seller of purple, of the city of Thyatira, which worshipped God, heard us: whose heart the Lord opened, that she attended unto the things which were spoken of Paul.
Phil 1:29
29 For unto you it is given in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for his sake;
If we have received the gift of faith from the Lord, dare we assume that any of the spiritual gifts which we have received is not obtained as a result of the work of Christ on the cross? If Christ died for each and every person, then the gift of faith would have been given to all.
brightfame52
Well-known member
The Bible is clear that faith itself is a gift from God and not something man can generate on his own. Ephesians 2:8-9 states, “For by grace you have been saved through faith, and this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast.”
Both Grace and Faith are feminine, both are Gifts, not of ourselves.
Both Grace and Faith are feminine, both are Gifts, not of ourselves.
Eternally-Grateful
Well-known member
the interesting thing is this
there is only one thing that determined ones condemnation or his new birth.
Faith
He who believes is not condemned, He who does not believe is condemned already.
Begotten
Member
The Jews had Faith that one day the Messiah would come, Christ means “Messiah” or “Anointed One.” The Old Testament predicts the Messiah, and the New Testament reveals the Messiah to be Jesus of Nazareth.
Yet when He came they did not believe in Him. They made the choice not to believe in Jesus.
To those of us who today believe in Jesus as Lord and Savior, the proof that He is the Jewish Messiah seems overwhelming. How is it that, generally speaking, the Jews do not accept Jesus as their Messiah? Both Isaiah and Jesus prophesied a spiritual blindness upon Israel as a judgment for their lack of faith.
Isaiah 6:9–10
And He said, Go and tell this people, Hear and hear continually, but understand not; and see and see continually, but do not apprehend with your mind.
10 Make the heart of this people fat; and make their ears heavy and shut their eyes, lest they see with their eyes and hear with their ears and understand with their hearts and turn again and be healed.
Matthew 13:13–15
13 This is the reason that I speak to them in parables: because having the power of seeing, they do not see; and having the power of hearing, they do not hear, nor do they grasp and understand.
14 In them indeed is the process of fulfillment of the prophecy of Isaiah, which says: You shall indeed hear and hear but never grasp and understand; and you shall indeed look and look but never see and perceive.
15 For this nation’s heart has grown gross (fat and dull), and their ears heavy and difficult of hearing, and their eyes they have tightly closed, lest they see and perceive with their eyes, and hear and comprehend the sense with their ears, and grasp and understand with their heart, and turn and I should heal them
brightfame52
Well-known member
Begotten
Member
God's chosen people had a lack of faith.
God’s Word affirms that the Jews are God’s chosen people: “You are a people holy to the Lord your God. The Lord your God has chosen you out of all the peoples on the face of the earth to be his people, his treasured possession” Deuteronomy 7:6
The Jews had Faith that one day the Messiah would come, Christ means “Messiah” or “Anointed One.” The Old Testament predicts the Messiah, and the New Testament reveals the Messiah to be Jesus of Nazareth.
Yet when He came they did not believe in Him. They made the choice not to believe in Jesus.
To those of us who today believe in Jesus as Lord and Savior, the proof that He is the Jewish Messiah seems overwhelming. How is it that, generally speaking, the Jews do not accept Jesus as their Messiah? Both Isaiah and Jesus prophesied a spiritual blindness upon Israel as a judgment for their lack of faith.
Isaiah 6:9–10
And He said, Go and tell this people, Hear and hear continually, but understand not; and see and see continually, but do not apprehend with your mind.
10 Make the heart of this people fat; and make their ears heavy and shut their eyes, lest they see with their eyes and hear with their ears and understand with their hearts and turn again and be healed.
Matthew 13:13–15
13 This is the reason that I speak to them in parables: because having the power of seeing, they do not see; and having the power of hearing, they do not hear, nor do they grasp and understand.
14 In them indeed is the process of fulfillment of the prophecy of Isaiah, which says: You shall indeed hear and hear but never grasp and understand; and you shall indeed look and look but never see and perceive.
15 For this nation’s heart has grown gross (fat and dull), and their ears heavy and difficult of hearing, and their eyes they have tightly closed, lest they see and perceive with their eyes, and hear and comprehend the sense with their ears, and grasp and understand with their heart, and turn and I should heal them
brightfame52
Well-known member
Rabbit trail continued
Begotten
Member
Did you have something to say?
brightfame52
Well-known member
Why do some people believe the Gospel and put Faith in Christ and some do not when afforded the same opportunity ?
Because God has mercy on some and others He hardens Rom. 9:18
18 Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth.
Paul became a believer because being elect, instead of hardening him, he obtained mercy 1 Tim 1:13-14
13 Who was before a blasphemer, and a persecutor, and injurious: but I obtained mercy, because I did it ignorantly in unbelief.
14 And the grace of our Lord was exceeding abundant with faith and love which is in Christ Jesus.
Others, non elect, God hardens and sends them a strong delusion to believe a lie 2 Thess 2:11-12
11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.
Because God has mercy on some and others He hardens Rom. 9:18
18 Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth.
Paul became a believer because being elect, instead of hardening him, he obtained mercy 1 Tim 1:13-14
13 Who was before a blasphemer, and a persecutor, and injurious: but I obtained mercy, because I did it ignorantly in unbelief.
14 And the grace of our Lord was exceeding abundant with faith and love which is in Christ Jesus.
Others, non elect, God hardens and sends them a strong delusion to believe a lie 2 Thess 2:11-12
11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.
civic
Well-known member
yep !
civic
Well-known member
you cannot ask a question and give an answer objectively. so no one believes your personal biased Q/A sessions.
just an FYI.
now carry on projecting your fatalism into the bible.
hope this helps !!!
brightfame52
Well-known member
I said it
