PSA as central to the Gospel

[DavidTree]

civic, you badly deceived on your eschatology I see.

The two witnesses of revelation seven are the church of Jesus Christ made up of Jews and Gentiles per John.

Revelation 11:3,4​

“And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth. These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth."

Romans 11:17​

“And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert graffed in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree;”

The church will be here until the very end, the last day when the last trump (the seventh) shall sound and there be a resurrection BOTH of the good and bad on the last day. See John 5:28,29!

Jacob's trouble has reference to the elect/saints, not literal Israel~there are NO prophecies for "literal/natural" Israel as a nation in the NT, in a good and profitable sense, zero! If you believe otherwise, then prove it with scriptures, which neither you or any man can. I'm 100% confidence you cannot.

Luke 1:33​

“And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end.”

Has reference "ONLY" to the God's elect/saints, whom Christ shall reign over for ever and ever. You have serious problems I see in a lot of area's.

Daniel 7:27​

“And the kingdom and dominion, and the greatness of the kingdom under the whole heaven, shall be given to the people of the saints of the most High, whose kingdom is an everlasting kingdom, and all dominions shall serve and obey him.”

Dear Brother @Red Baker and @civic,

We can learn from each other as we allow the Holy Spirit to speak to us thru the Holy Scriptures.
As long as we do not add or take away from "It is written"

The Holy Spirit will NEVER speak to us differing Truth.

JESUS, in fact, did give Prophecy concerning the Jewish people as a nation.
Clear as Day in the OT Prophets, in the Gospel and specifically in Matthew chapter 23

OT Prophet Zechariah 14:1-3
Behold, the day of the Lord is coming,
And your spoil will be divided in your midst.
For I will gather all the nations to battle against Jerusalem;
The city shall be taken,
The houses rifled,
And the women ravished.
Half of the city shall go into captivity,
But the remnant of the people shall not be cut off from the city.
Then the Lord will go forth
And fight against those nations,
As He fights in the day of battle.
And in that day His feet will stand on the Mount of Olives,

Matthew 23:37-39
O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the one who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her! How often I wanted to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, but you were not willing!
See! Your house is left to you desolate; for I say to you, you shall see Me no more till you say, ‘Blessed is He who comes in the name of the Lord!’ ”

 

[DavidTree]

Yes those who reject pre trib

SEE = i can laugh with you because of His great Love for us

 

[DavidTree]

Yes those who reject pre trib

One major discrepancy here:
No one has made BIG $$$ from books/preaching on the Prophecy of the LORD Jesus Christ given to us in Matthew 24:29-31

 

[Joe]

Good Morning

I agree with you and @civic that the FATHER was not the one standing over JESUS furiously whipping Him.

Satan is the prosecutor = the accuser of the Brethren.

You are right. Satan is the prosecutor of the Brethren.

When a King/Judge sentences a criminal to punishment, the King/Judge himself does not carry out the punishment.
The carrying out of the punishment is delegated to lower level servants/employees of the King/Government.

The instrument of punishment was carried out by men of this world who were/are under "the god of this world."

Your analogy only works when a criminal is being punished, not a Savior offering His life for our life.

The story of Job is CRYSTAL CLEAR pictorial evidence of this process.

The scripture says: God is the KING over all of Creation. God Rules in Righteousness and Sin cannot go unpunished.
The penalty for Sin is DEATH.
God therefore, had to punish His Son unto the suffering of death but not for any wrong Jesus committed(HE did no wrong) but for the sins we committed = "behold the Lamb that takes away the sins of the world."

Read below and let's see if your understanding is biblically accurate.

• Was it God's will for His Son to offer His life for our sins? Yes
• Did God predetermine this ahead of time? Oh, yes
• Did God foreknow what would happen and by who? Yes
• Did God use the sinfulness of man led by Satan to be the means to take the life of His Son? Yes
• Did Jesus have a say in this matter? Yes
• Did God take His Son's life for our sins or did Jesus offer His life for our sins? Jesus offered His life.
• Why did our Lord offer His life? "And walk in love, as Christ also has loved us and given Himself for us, an offering and a sacrifice to God for a sweet-smelling aroma." (Eph 5:2)
• Did God punish His Son through others? No, this is never once mentioned in the bible, nowhere. It is conjecture to think so.
• Did God judge our sin in the bodily death of His Son? Yes, in the sweet smelling aroma of His Son's sacrifice our Heavenly Father judged sin.
• Did the death of His Son pacify God? Yes, in that our sin was judged and God reconciled us to Himself; and this pleased God.

When you read the bible it always states our Lord died for our sins, that He offered up Himself. It never once states our Heavenly Father killed Him for our sins. You will read where our Father predetermined with purpose and by foreknowledge delivered Him over to those who would kill Him, and yet it was ultimately our Lord's decision to give His life for our sins to fulfill our Father's will.

If the punishment for sin is death, then it was our Lord who gave His life over to death of Himself, for the Lord said, "Therefore My Father loves Me, because I lay down My life that I may take it again. No one takes it from Me, but I lay it down of Myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This command I have received from My Father." (Joh 10:17-18). You need to understand our Lord sacrificed Himself to the power of death, God did not punish Him with death. He alone gave His life.

Again, no punishment was ever inflicted by our Father upon His own Son, Jesus Christ our Lord. Jesus came from Heaven on a rescue mission, to save us from our own sins by giving an offering of His life for our life. And God fully accepted it! We are bought, ransomed, purchased with the blood of Jesus Christ unto eternal life by the wonderful goodness and grace of our God! We now live with the joy of salvation being gloriously filled with God inside, experiencing a new life as never before, with Him constantly reassuring us because He loves us. We're never alone, but always spiritually in the presence of the Lord. God is our Father and we are truly His children!

God Bless

 

[Selah]

You are right. Satan is the prosecutor of the Brethren.

Your analogy only works when a criminal is being punished, not a Savior offering His life for our life.

Read below and let's see if your understanding is biblically accurate.

• Was it God's will for His Son to offer His life for our sins? Yes
• Did God predetermine this ahead of time? Oh, yes
• Did God foreknow what would happen and by who? Yes
• Did God use the sinfulness of man led by Satan to be the means to take the life of His Son? Yes
• Did Jesus have a say in this matter? Yes
• Did God take His Son's life for our sins or did Jesus offer His life for our sins? Jesus offered His life.
• Why did our Lord offer His life? "And walk in love, as Christ also has loved us and given Himself for us, an offering and a sacrifice to God for a sweet-smelling aroma." (Eph 5:2)
• Did God punish His Son through others? No, this is never once mentioned in the bible, nowhere. It is conjecture to think so.
• Did God judge our sin in the bodily death of His Son? Yes, in the sweet smelling aroma of His Son's sacrifice our Heavenly Father judged sin.
• Did the death of His Son pacify God? Yes, in that our sin was judged and God reconciled us to Himself; and this pleased God.

When you read the bible it always states our Lord died for our sins, that He offered up Himself. It never once states our Heavenly Father killed Him for our sins. You will read where our Father predetermined with purpose and by foreknowledge delivered Him over to those who would kill Him, and yet it was ultimately our Lord's decision to give His life for our sins to fulfill our Father's will.

If the punishment for sin is death, then it was our Lord who gave His life over to death of Himself, for the Lord said, "Therefore My Father loves Me, because I lay down My life that I may take it again. No one takes it from Me, but I lay it down of Myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This command I have received from My Father." (Joh 10:17-18). You need to understand our Lord sacrificed Himself to the power of death, God did not punish Him with death. He alone gave His life.

Again, no punishment was ever inflicted by our Father upon His own Son, Jesus Christ our Lord. Jesus came from Heaven on a rescue mission, to save us from our own sins by giving an offering of His life for our life. And God fully accepted it! We are bought, ransomed, purchased with the blood of Jesus Christ unto eternal life by the wonderful goodness and grace of our God! We now live with the joy of salvation being gloriously filled with God inside, experiencing a new life as never before, with Him constantly reassuring us because He loves us. We're never alone, but always spiritually in the presence of the Lord. God is our Father and we are truly His children!

God Bless

Thank you, Joe. …and the Truth will set you free.

selah

 

[DavidTree]

You are right. Satan is the prosecutor of the Brethren.

Your analogy only works when a criminal is being punished, not a Savior offering His life for our life.

Read below and let's see if your understanding is biblically accurate.

• Was it God's will for His Son to offer His life for our sins? Yes
• Did God predetermine this ahead of time? Oh, yes
• Did God foreknow what would happen and by who? Yes
• Did God use the sinfulness of man led by Satan to be the means to take the life of His Son? Yes
• Did Jesus have a say in this matter? Yes
• Did God take His Son's life for our sins or did Jesus offer His life for our sins? Jesus offered His life.
• Why did our Lord offer His life? "And walk in love, as Christ also has loved us and given Himself for us, an offering and a sacrifice to God for a sweet-smelling aroma." (Eph 5:2)
• Did God punish His Son through others? No, this is never once mentioned in the bible, nowhere. It is conjecture to think so.
• Did God judge our sin in the bodily death of His Son? Yes, in the sweet smelling aroma of His Son's sacrifice our Heavenly Father judged sin.
• Did the death of His Son pacify God? Yes, in that our sin was judged and God reconciled us to Himself; and this pleased God.

When you read the bible it always states our Lord died for our sins, that He offered up Himself. It never once states our Heavenly Father killed Him for our sins. You will read where our Father predetermined with purpose and by foreknowledge delivered Him over to those who would kill Him, and yet it was ultimately our Lord's decision to give His life for our sins to fulfill our Father's will.

If the punishment for sin is death, then it was our Lord who gave His life over to death of Himself, for the Lord said, "Therefore My Father loves Me, because I lay down My life that I may take it again. No one takes it from Me, but I lay it down of Myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This command I have received from My Father." (Joh 10:17-18). You need to understand our Lord sacrificed Himself to the power of death, God did not punish Him with death. He alone gave His life.

Again, no punishment was ever inflicted by our Father upon His own Son, Jesus Christ our Lord. Jesus came from Heaven on a rescue mission, to save us from our own sins by giving an offering of His life for our life. And God fully accepted it! We are bought, ransomed, purchased with the blood of Jesus Christ unto eternal life by the wonderful goodness and grace of our God! We now live with the joy of salvation being gloriously filled with God inside, experiencing a new life as never before, with Him constantly reassuring us because He loves us. We're never alone, but always spiritually in the presence of the Lord. God is our Father and we are truly His children!

God Bless

Your analogy only works when a criminal is being punished, not a Savior offering His life for our life.

We are the criminals that JESUS replaced on the Cross with His Own Body = HE became SIN/CRIMINAL for us

God made Him who knew no sin to be sin on our behalf, so that in Him we might become the righteousness of God.

@Joe @civic @DavidTree CRIMINAL Tresspasses/Crimes were PAID for by the LORD Jesus Christ

Surely He has borne our griefs
And carried our sorrows;
Yet we esteemed Him stricken,
Smitten by God, and afflicted.
But He was wounded for our transgressions,
He was bruised for our iniquities;
The PUNISHMENT for our peace was upon Him,
And by His stripes we are healed.
All we like sheep have gone astray;
We have turned, every one, to his own way;
And the Lord has laid on Him the iniquity of us all.

Another day and another return to reality from the Holy Scriptures of TRUTH = Thy word is Truth