PSA as central to the Gospel

[Tothalordbeallglory]

all one has is conjecture at best and an argument from silence.

why believe what the bible does not say ?

finding something "hard" to believe in no way makes it true.

Who has not done what adam and eve did . Who has not sinned .
Even the jews sinned , but when they repented
God forgave . Its pretty clear adam and eve , as was MOSES , were forgiven .
REPENTANCE . what man sins not
but if ye will turn back to GOD He will forgive .
Now they got their just punishement as have all of mankind
THIS WORLD is under the curse .
But not the sheep . IT IS JESUS preaching time rather than bickering over this stuff .

 

[Tothalordbeallglory]

all one has is conjecture at best and an argument from silence.

why believe what the bible does not say ?

finding something "hard" to believe in no way makes it true.

So do you believe adam and eve are headed to the lake of fire .
DID GOD not cover them for their sin .
Its the soul that sins that shall die .
For as in ADAM all DIE
that was THEIR PUNISHMENT as it was ours .
HOWEVER , ITS JESUS PREACHING TIME . cause all IN CHRIST are made alive .
I truly think its high time we put down what most them denominations taught .
Start over in the bible and get real busy learning for our own selves .
AND i hope this dont anger you and make your blood boil , BUT WE DONT need to learn g reek
hermes and whatever else these bafoons sold this church age , TO LEARN the BIBLE .
Be encouraged . JESUS preaching TIME . cause i know some folks here
are already under the influence of an ecumincal love harlot that hollered from the get go
under seeker friendly JUDGE NOT .
But you dont see me g iving up on them . YOU DO SEE me WARNING though . and warn i will too .

 

[DavidTree]

all one has is conjecture at best and an argument from silence.

why believe what the bible does not say ?

finding something "hard" to believe in no way makes it true.

why believe what the bible does not say ?
pre-trib rapture

 

[civic]

So do you believe adam and eve are headed to the lake of fire .
DID GOD not cover them for their sin .
Its the soul that sins that shall die .
For as in ADAM all DIE
that was THEIR PUNISHMENT as it was ours .
HOWEVER , ITS JESUS PREACHING TIME . cause all IN CHRIST are made alive .
I truly think its high time we put down what most them denominations taught .
Start over in the bible and get real busy learning for our own selves .
AND i hope this dont anger you and make your blood boil , BUT WE DONT need to learn g reek
hermes and whatever else these bafoons sold this church age , TO LEARN the BIBLE .
Be encouraged . JESUS preaching TIME . cause i know some folks here
are already under the influence of an ecumincal love harlot that hollered from the get go
under seeker friendly JUDGE NOT .
But you dont see me g iving up on them . YOU DO SEE me WARNING though . and warn i will too .

They are not mentioned in Hebrews 11 as people of faith and any other tone mentioned in the NT it’s 100% negative.

Please show me where anyone in the NT says anything positive about them .

Thanks

 

[civic]

why believe what the bible does not say ?
pre-trib rapture

I believe the bible which supports the pre trib. 1 Thes 1:10, Rom 5:9- Jesus delivers/saves us from Gods wrath. His wrath is for the ungodly, rebellious, reprobate.

Revelation 3:10- Since you have kept my command to endure patiently, I will also keep you from the hour of trial that is going to come on the whole world to test the inhabitants of the earth.

Jeremiah 30:7
It is even the time of Jacob’s trouble;
but he will be saved out of it.

Daniel 12:1
“At that time Michael, the great prince who stands watch over your people, will rise up. There will be a time of distress, the likes of which will not have occurred from the beginning of nations until that time. But at that time your people—everyone whose name is found written in the book—will be delivered.


Since you believe Jesus bore Gods wrath ( a heresy ) then for the church to suffer Gods wrath and go through it during the ( great tribulation ) makes Jesus on the cross bearing it the first time nothing but nonsense. If He bore Gods wrath for the church on the cross , then the church cannot be under Gods wrath a 2nd time during the 7 year great tribulation.

You have a glaring contradiction with PSA and Gods wrath in the great tribulation.

next fallacy

end of discussion

 

[DavidTree]

I believe the bible which supports the pre trib. 1 Thes 1:10, Rom 5:9- Jesus delivers/saves us from Gods wrath. His wrath is for the ungodly, rebellious, reprobate.

Revelation 3:10- Since you have kept my command to endure patiently, I will also keep you from the hour of trial that is going to come on the whole world to test the inhabitants of the earth.

Jeremiah 30:7
It is even the time of Jacob’s trouble;
but he will be saved out of it.

Daniel 12:1
“At that time Michael, the great prince who stands watch over your people, will rise up. There will be a time of distress, the likes of which will not have occurred from the beginning of nations until that time. But at that time your people—everyone whose name is found written in the book—will be delivered.


Since you believe Jesus bore Gods wrath ( a heresy ) then for the church to suffer Gods wrath and go through it during the ( great tribulation ) makes Jesus on the cross bearing it the first time nothing but nonsense. If He bore Gods wrath for the church on the cross , then the church cannot be under Gods wrath a 2nd time during the 7 year great tribulation.

You have a glaring contradiction with PSA and Gods wrath in the great tribulation.

next fallacy

end of discussion

Let's agree together on 1 Thess 1:10

This sentence has 3 Parts that make up the complete meaning

1 Thess 1:10 - and to await His Son from heaven, whom He raised from the dead—Jesus our deliverer from the coming wrath."

1) KEY words:
a.) WAIT
b.) for JESUS
c.) from HEAVEN

This beginning of the sentence we have already been given clues to understanding; which JESUS specified over and over again in the Gospel = JESUS is Returning for us from HEAVEN = this is CRUCIAL

2) KEY words:
d.) whom He raised from the dead

This middle section of the sentence is the focus of the RESURRECTION = which JESUS will accomplish for the saints/elect at His 2nd Coming = as HE promised in the Gospel

3) KEY words:
e.) JESUS our Deliverer
f.) from the coming WRATH

This Ending is the SURETY of our salvation which is in JESUS = only those of us in JESUS
JESUS brings two diametrically opposed Elements of the Gospel = Deliverance and Wrath
Because we are in JESUS, we escape the coming WRATH which JESUS will execute Himself as KING of KINGS and LORD of LORDS

Irrefutable Wisdom and TRUTH = Wait for JESUS, when JESUS Returns, the Resurrection/rapture and subsequent Wrath.

word knowledge - subsequent/coming = Following in time or order; succeeding.

1 Thess 1:10 - and to await His Son from heaven, whom He raised from the dead—Jesus our deliverer from the coming wrath."

 

[civic]

Let's agree together on 1 Thess 1:10

This sentence has 3 Parts that make up the complete meaning

1 Thess 1:10 - and to await His Son from heaven, whom He raised from the dead—Jesus our deliverer from the coming wrath."

1) KEY words:
a.) WAIT
b.) for JESUS
c.) from HEAVEN

This beginning of the sentence we have already been given clues to understanding; which JESUS specified over and over again in the Gospel = JESUS is Returning for us from HEAVEN = this is CRUCIAL

2) KEY words:
d.) whom He raised from the dead

This middle section of the sentence is the focus of the RESURRECTION = which JESUS will accomplish for the saints/elect at His 2nd Coming = as HE promised in the Gospel

3) KEY words:
e.) JESUS our Deliverer
f.) from the coming WRATH

This Ending is the SURETY of our salvation which is in JESUS = only those of us in JESUS
JESUS brings two diametrically opposed Elements of the Gospel = Deliverance and Wrath
Because we are in JESUS, we escape the coming WRATH which JESUS will execute Himself as KING of KINGS and LORD of LORDS

Irrefutable Wisdom and TRUTH = Wait for JESUS, when JESUS Returns, the Resurrection/rapture and subsequent Wrath.

word knowledge - subsequent/coming = Following in time or order; succeeding.

1 Thess 1:10 - and to await His Son from heaven, whom He raised from the dead—Jesus our deliverer from the coming wrath."

and the coming wrath is during the great tribulation as the other scripture proclaim

so did Jesus bear Gods wrath on the cross ? yes or no

 

[DavidTree]

and the coming wrath is during the great tribulation as the other scripture proclaim

so did Jesus bear Gods wrath on the cross ? yes or no

Let's agree with our Heavenly FATHER's exact words on the matter of the "coming wrath"

In the Gospel, Jesus never equated the Tribulation with God's Wrath = HE always separated the two

John 16:33
These things I have spoken to you, that in Me you may have peace. In the world you will have tribulation; but be of good cheer, I have overcome the world.”

Tribulation began in Genesis and is ALWAYS present on this earth because satan/sin is a continuing influence upon the world.
2 Cor 4:4 = The god of this age has blinded the minds of unbelievers, so they cannot see the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God.

Which leads us to Matthew ch24

Now we see clearly the build up of tribulation into the Great Tribulation
While Jesus was sitting on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to Him privately. “Tell us,” they said, “when will these things happen, and what will be the sign of Your coming and of the end of the age?”

4Jesus answered, “See to it that no one deceives you. 5For many will come in My name, claiming, ‘I am the Christ,’ and will deceive many. 6You will hear of wars and rumors of wars, but see to it that you are not alarmed. These things must happen, but the end is still to come. 7Nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. There will be famines and earthquakes in various places.
SEE = v8 All these are the beginning of birth pains.
Birth pains is tribulation that grows into great tribulation as the Day draws near = 1 Thess 5:1-3

Now about the times and seasons, brothers, we do not need to write to you. 2For you are fully aware that the Day of the Lord will come like a thief in the night.
3While people are saying, “Peace and security,” destruction will come upon them suddenly,
like labor pains on a pregnant woman, and they will not escape.

SHALOM

 

[civic]

Let's agree with our Heavenly FATHER's exact words on the matter of the "coming wrath"

In the Gospel, Jesus never equated the Tribulation with God's Wrath = HE always separated the two

John 16:33
These things I have spoken to you, that in Me you may have peace. In the world you will have tribulation; but be of good cheer, I have overcome the world.”

Tribulation began in Genesis and is ALWAYS present on this earth because satan/sin is a continuing influence upon the world.
2 Cor 4:4 = The god of this age has blinded the minds of unbelievers, so they cannot see the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God.

Which leads us to Matthew ch24

Now we see clearly the build up of tribulation into the Great Tribulation
While Jesus was sitting on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to Him privately. “Tell us,” they said, “when will these things happen, and what will be the sign of Your coming and of the end of the age?”

4Jesus answered, “See to it that no one deceives you. 5For many will come in My name, claiming, ‘I am the Christ,’ and will deceive many. 6You will hear of wars and rumors of wars, but see to it that you are not alarmed. These things must happen, but the end is still to come. 7Nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. There will be famines and earthquakes in various places.
SEE = v8 All these are the beginning of birth pains.
Birth pains is tribulation that grows into great tribulation as the Day draws near = 1 Thess 5:1-3

Now about the times and seasons, brothers, we do not need to write to you. 2For you are fully aware that the Day of the Lord will come like a thief in the night.
3While people are saying, “Peace and security,” destruction will come upon them suddenly,
like labor pains on a pregnant woman, and they will not escape.

SHALOM

You never did answer my question, this is the 2nd time now.

did Jesus bear/suffer Gods wrath on the cross ? yes or no

 

[Tothalordbeallglory]

They are not mentioned in Hebrews 11 as people of faith and any other tone mentioned in the NT it’s 100% negative.

Please show me where anyone in the NT says anything positive about them .

Thanks

I am sure and certain you might be defending a doctrine .
I just cannot yet figure out what it is .
In the meantime let no man woman or child
have anything to do with , support in any way , keep company in any way
with any who work in that ecumincal camp .
Friend i gots far bigger fish to fry than to worry about adam and eve .
We got antichrists infiltrating much of christendom
and they know how to seduce and make things sound good and loving TO DECIEVE this people .

 

[Tothalordbeallglory]

You never did answer my question, this is the 2nd time now.

did Jesus bear/suffer Gods wrath on the cross ? yes or no

Not the full brunt , but he did suffer for our sakes .
JESUS did pay the price . as far as knowing whether it was GODS wrath
or a payment . again why worry about it .
SO long as YOU both know JESUS is the only reason we have eternal life .
I think i see what the problem is
you all are aruging over PSA . T HANK GOD i did not learn all these doctrines from men .
I can just keep it simple and POINT to CHRIST .
I have seen some of you all wrestling over things that men taught
and even at times saying the same thing .
I wish every man , woman and child in christendom would just start over with the bible
and let us just learn and t each it
and not any of these other doctrines . Things would easily clear up .

 

[Tothalordbeallglory]

why believe what the bible does not say ?
pre-trib rapture

again if we would have just started over in the bible
and every man just let go of these doctrines
Things could easily in time be cleared up .
Many say not to do something and yet they doing it themselves .
This is so simple my friend . So simple .
THE TRUTH is we have us a major delusion taking the houses of even much of christendom captive
TO A LIE .
And kinda odd i seem to see none to few
even warning about this . We got to step up these warnings my friend .
Because even if one had certain doctrines right
IF THEY GO UNDER the LOVE LIE OF UNITY ECUMINCAL intefaith . FRIEND ITS GONNA END THEM .
END THEM and their end WILL NOT BE GOOD .

 

[Tothalordbeallglory]

WE need soliders . The house of christendom has fallen
IT has been infiltrated by THE MOTHER HARLOT
and now through her smooth speeches and unity talks and finding common ground jibbersih
SHE GONNA END THEM ALL IN PERDITION .
THIS is real and is deadly . And if the peoples will not return to CHRIST to the preaching of
BIBLICAL doctrine and expose this contrary whore and her ecumincal cup
IT WILL END HORRENDOUSLY for all who partook of that cup . NOW we got grown wolves ALL over christendom .
And we better get back into the bible for ourselves and now .

 

[Tothalordbeallglory]

You never did answer my question, this is the 2nd time now.

did Jesus bear/suffer Gods wrath on the cross ? yes or no

We have ecumincal whores all over the place my friend .
and beleive me when i say they can quoate the gospel , but in truth they no longer BELIEVE IT .
Its a madhouse civic and not only that but most folks have no idea
just how far wide spread it is . This WHORE and these spirits
are gonna end this generation IN PERDITION . and they think its all love and hugs and cute and necesary for world
peace n safety . ITS GONNA END THEM my friend . And we have to do something now .
Get every man woman and child you know back into that bible to learn for themselves .

 

[civic]

We have ecumincal whores all over the place my friend .
and beleive me when i say they can quoate the gospel , but in truth they no longer BELIEVE IT .
Its a madhouse civic and not only that but most folks have no idea
just how far wide spread it is . This WHORE and these spirits
are gonna end this generation IN PERDITION . and they think its all love and hugs and cute and necesary for world
peace n safety . ITS GONNA END THEM my friend . And we have to do something now .
Get every man woman and child you know back into that bible to learn for themselves .

the time is close- look up for your redemption draweth nigh

 

[Tothalordbeallglory]

Let's agree with our Heavenly FATHER's exact words on the matter of the "coming wrath"

In the Gospel, Jesus never equated the Tribulation with God's Wrath = HE always separated the two

John 16:33
These things I have spoken to you, that in Me you may have peace. In the world you will have tribulation; but be of good cheer, I have overcome the world.”

Tribulation began in Genesis and is ALWAYS present on this earth because satan/sin is a continuing influence upon the world.
2 Cor 4:4 = The god of this age has blinded the minds of unbelievers, so they cannot see the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God.

Which leads us to Matthew ch24

Now we see clearly the build up of tribulation into the Great Tribulation
While Jesus was sitting on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to Him privately. “Tell us,” they said, “when will these things happen, and what will be the sign of Your coming and of the end of the age?”

4Jesus answered, “See to it that no one deceives you. 5For many will come in My name, claiming, ‘I am the Christ,’ and will deceive many. 6You will hear of wars and rumors of wars, but see to it that you are not alarmed. These things must happen, but the end is still to come. 7Nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. There will be famines and earthquakes in various places.
SEE = v8 All these are the beginning of birth pains.
Birth pains is tribulation that grows into great tribulation as the Day draws near = 1 Thess 5:1-3

Now about the times and seasons, brothers, we do not need to write to you. 2For you are fully aware that the Day of the Lord will come like a thief in the night.
3While people are saying, “Peace and security,” destruction will come upon them suddenly,
like labor pains on a pregnant woman, and they will not escape.

SHALOM

peter uses the same words too . SWIFT destruction
Now go to and behold this ecumincal WHORES INTEFAITH SOLUTION
IT preaches ANTI CHRIST , a lie and they all believe this merger of the religoins will usher in
PEACE AND SECURITY . you ever get the f eeling
WE GOT A HUGE WHORE at work and is callling all her children home
TO INCLUDE also the false religions and making everyone to beleive we serve the same GOD .
And this so called god is all behind this and is leading them to peace n safety .
OH there is a god behind this all right and its leading THEM TO ANTI CHRIST . and folks just love its messages .

 

[Selah]

and the coming wrath is during the great tribulation as the other scripture proclaim

so did Jesus bear Gods wrath on the cross ? yes or no

… but Jesus is God. Jesus took the stripes so that we could get the healing. Thank You, Jesus (God). HalleluYAH!

So the answer is yes.
…selah

 

[civic]

… but Jesus is God. Jesus took the stripes so that we could get the healing. Thank You, Jesus (God). HalleluYAH!

So the answer is yes.
…selah

So if that’s one position then it stands to reason the church will not go through the great tribulation the day of Gods mighty wrath and vengeance

 

[Selah]

Not the full brunt , but he did suffer for our sakes .
JESUS did pay the price . as far as knowing whether it was GODS wrath
or a payment . again why worry about it .
SO long as YOU both know JESUS is the only reason we have eternal life .
I think i see what the problem is
you all are aruging over PSA . T HANK GOD i did not learn all these doctrines from men .
I can just keep it simple and POINT to CHRIST .
I have seen some of you all wrestling over things that men taught
and even at times saying the same thing .
I wish every man , woman and child in christendom would just start over with the bible
and let us just learn and t each it
and not any of these other doctrines . Things would easily clear up .

Amen. All this debating is not good. I’d rather just give praise to the Lord, the Almighty, the King of all creation. … selah

 

[DavidTree]

You never did answer my question, this is the 2nd time now.

did Jesus bear/suffer Gods wrath on the cross ? yes or no

The Scripture is CLEAR = Isaiah chapter 53

Punishment = YES

WRATH = NO

JESUS is the WAY the TRUTH and the LIFE

the WAY = take up your Cross(tribulation) and follow ME

the TRUTH = in this world you will suffer tribulation

the LIFE = fear not, for I have overcome the world