Predestination and Determinism

[praise_yeshua]

You can call it zapping, but it's not zapping a person with belief. If you're just talking about monergism, then say so. "Zapping a person with belief" is not only nonsense, it is deliberately condescending and arrogant nonsense.

What do you prefer to "call it"?

Make it sound the best you can possibly make it sound. Let me guess..... "Doctrines of Grace"

 

[synergy]

You can call it zapping, but it's not zapping a person with belief. If you're just talking about monergism, then say so. "Zapping a person with belief" is not only nonsense, it is deliberately condescending and arrogant nonsense.

Zapping is a visual expression of unilateral monergism and because of that you're of course bothered by it. Of course your first reaction is denial but I hope you'll reassess and come to the realization of just how abominable unilateral monergism truly is.

 

[The Rogue Tomato]

Zapping is a visual expression of unilateral monergism and because of that you're of course bothered by it. Of course your first reaction is denial but I hope you'll reassess its visual depiction of unilateral monergism.

"I believe monergism is wrong" is an intellectually honest statement, and it promotes discussion.

"You believe God zaps people with belief" is antagonistic and intellectually dishonest.

 

[civic]

There's a lot of things Christians do that makes God and the Holy Spirit and Jesus dishonest-not just Calvinists.

Agreed

 

[praise_yeshua]

"I believe monergism is wrong" is an intellectually honest statement, and it promotes discussion.

"You believe God zaps people with belief" is antagonistic and intellectually dishonest.

I believe it requires LSD to believe in monergism = "is intellectually honest".

"Doctrines of Grace" is antagonistic and intellectually dishonest.

 

[The Rogue Tomato]

What do you prefer to "call it"?

Make it sound the best you can possibly make it sound. Let me guess..... "Doctrines of Grace"

Actually, I'd just call it monergism.

 

[The Rogue Tomato]

I believe it requires LSD to believe in monergism = "is intellectually honest".

"Doctrines of Grace" is antagonistic and intellectually dishonest.

If I ever said you were on LSD, I apologize. But sometimes I think it would require LSD to understand some of the things you say. I will stand by that.

 

[praise_yeshua]

Actually, I'd just call it monergism.

So you're not going to use the ole "Doctrines of Grace" reference anymore?

I'd love to have a "no loaded jargon" discussion. However, it should never be one sided.

 

[The Rogue Tomato]

So you're not going to use the ole "Doctrines of Grace" reference anymore?

I'd love to have a "no loaded jargon" discussion. However, it should never be one sided.

I don't think I've ever used "Doctrines of Grace". If so, I sure can't recall it, because I don't think of it as doctrines of grace.

To me, it's "reformed doctrine" or "monergism".

 

[praise_yeshua]

If I ever said you were on LSD, I apologize. But sometimes I think it would require LSD to understand some of the things you say. I will stand by that.

I don't care that you said it. I can give as good as good as I get. I have never wanted anything less than a honest dialogue.

 

[civic]

Zapping is unidirectional monergism in like matter to a bolt of energy originating from one point and ending in another. All your points are by definition unidirectional monergism or zapping in colloquial terms.

Regeneration is synonymous with zapping in Calvinism. Zapping the dead corpse to life.

 

[praise_yeshua]

I don't think I've ever used "Doctrines of Grace". If so, I sure can't recall it, because I don't think of it as doctrines of grace.

To me, it's "reformed doctrine" or "monergism".

Doesn't matter. We are at a good place to start over. I apologize for antagonizing you.

 

[Rockson]

Do you mind if I disagree?

Calls for Unity among false doctrine do not exist in the Scriptures. For just one example of many....

Gal 2:11 But when Peter was come to Antioch, I withstood him to the face, because he was to be blamed.
Gal 2:12 For before that certain came from James, he did eat with the Gentiles: but when they were come, he withdrew and separated himself, fearing them which were of the circumcision.

And you're correct there. I want to point out why Calvinism is even more serious and egregious error than this above and with this Paul withstood him to the face. Why is Calvinism more serious and egregious? For with the error above at least they didn't strip away from humanity the true gracious nature and character of God that he's not willing that all men should repent and be saved.

Yes their error was that the Gentiles needed to be circumcised but at least they were believing at this time anyway that all men could be saved and the God loved all men. So I think Paul would have sought to show much compassion to many of the Calvinist rank and file seeking to break the delusion that had taken hold of their minds but to those who were the top leaders of the vain philosophy he'd most sharply reprove them in the most strongest terms.

Calvinism robs Christ of His Glory. There is no praise nor Unity in such.

It creates a false and untrue way of envisioning the character of God. If there are individuals who have become offended towards God because of it, which I'm sure there have, Jesus said offences will come but woe to the man who was responsible for creating them. Matt 18:17 This will not be a light little thing to be guilty of but with departing from it, recanting and repenting from it God's mercy will be upon those who do. If they do they are clean and justified in God's sight, just like all of us we all need the mercy of God.

 

[synergy]

"I believe monergism is wrong" is an intellectually honest statement, and it promotes discussion.

"You believe God zaps people with belief" is antagonistic and intellectually dishonest.

Of course you're bothered by how the term zapping visually depicts calvinist unilateral monergism. And of course your first reaction is denial but I hope you'll reassess and come to the realization of just how disrespective and intellectually dishonest it is for God to be portrayed as unilaterally monergistic by calvinists.

 

[The Rogue Tomato]

Of course you're bothered by how the term zapping visually depicts calvinist unilateral monergism. And of course your first reaction is denial but I hope you'll reassess and come to the realization of just how disrespective and intellectually dishonest it is for God to be depicted as unilaterally monergistic by calvinists.

And I hope you'll come to realize that the only way to have an intellectually honest discussion is to stop antagonizing people who disagree with you.

 

[synergy]

And I hope you'll come to realize that the only way to have an intellectually honest discussion is to stop antagonizing people who disagree with you.

I hope your presuppositions do not swarm and blind your mind to how condescending and paganistic it is to depict a God who needs to resort to unilateral monergism (aka: zapping) in order to keep control and keep humanity under a leash.

 

[The Rogue Tomato]

I hope your presuppositions do not swarm and blind your mind to how condescending and paganistic it is to depict a God who needs to resort to unilateral monergism (aka: zapping) in order to keep control and keep humanity under a leash.

I guess I won't hold my breath.

 

[TomL]

Ditto

Yes

 

[TomL]

"I believe monergism is wrong" is an intellectually honest statement, and it promotes discussion.

"You believe God zaps people with belief" is antagonistic and intellectually dishonest.

You mean like the false label of Pelagianism for everyone who disagreed with you

 

[Presby02]

Which means boasting is not excluded.

Exactly. Not saying they would but they certainly have grounds to.