praise_yeshua
Active Member
Did it for you?
Dual requirements exists in Calvinism. One for the Calvinist and one for everyone else.
Predestination and Determinism
- Thread starter civic
- Start date
Did it for you?
Dual requirements exists in Calvinism. One for the Calvinist and one for everyone else.
Johann
Active Member
Are you saying I am promoting Calvinism and a false doctrine-not knowing God.
Guess there goes the unity among the brethren since you don't view your Calvinist brothers as brothers in Christ.
I am not a Calvinist but more than willing to engage with them-would you?
civic
Active Member
I’m confronting Calvinism and I know the doctrines since I was one for over 4 decades
Johann
Active Member
Do you think that is Christ like?
praise_yeshua
Active Member
No one is Calvinism disqualified someone from being "In Christ". I haven't seen it.
We are combating a very dangerous doctrine that can prevent others from knowing God. There is only one Judge of men. Jesus Christ. That is why we only find Unity in Him and those things that rightfully glorify Christ.
synergy
Active Member
Permit me to ask you a question. Do you believe that our capacity to believe is part of our human nature that God created for all or does God discriminently zap people with belief?
civic
Active Member
Yes confronting false teaching is what Jesus , the apostles and prophets did and commanded the church to do as well
praise_yeshua
Active Member
Christ drove Pharisees from the Temple courtyards and called them "a den of thieves". Christ called Peter "Satan". Christ chided His disciples for falling asleep when He needed them the most.
We are poor needy creatures. All of us but we can't live a lie and please God. You're asking for Unity in a lie. Someone is right and someone is wrong. There is no fellowship in such.
Can we love one another? There is no other choice to make. Loving someone doesn't exclude confronting them.
Paul made it very clear....
Gal 4:16 Am I therefore become your enemy, because I tell you the truth?
If friendship requires keeping my mouth shut when I believe something is wrong, then the problem isn't with me.
Johann
Active Member
What does the Scripture say? I can think of one immediately-my opinion and yours counts for nothing.
praise_yeshua
Active Member
Yep
1Jn 1:6 If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:
1Jn 1:7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.
synergy
Active Member
By all means please do tell us.
Johann
Active Member
Why cordially invite Calvinists to join this Forum to be met with antagonism?
praise_yeshua
Active Member
I love the Scriptures. I can think of....
Mat 11:28 Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.
Mat 11:29 Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls.
Mat 11:30 For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.
Christ imploring mankind to "learn of me......"
praise_yeshua
Active Member
Antagonism? Like you're doing now?
We are all challenging one another. Nothing changes without confrontation.
civic
Active Member
Forums are designed to debate and defend one’s beliefs , it’s called apologetics. Hence the name Berean ( Acts 17) Apologetics forum .
Johann
Active Member
The Bible teaches that our capacity for faith and belief is part of our human nature, as we are created in the image of God. Passages like Psalm 139:13-14 affirm that God knit us together and fearfully and wonderfully made us, including our innate spiritual faculties:
"For you created my inmost being; you knit me together in my mother's womb. I praise you because I am fearfully and wonderfully made; your works are wonderful, I know that full well."
At the same time, the Bible also acknowledges that God can sovereignly harden or blind the hearts of those who persistently reject Him, as seen in the passage from John 12:40 cited earlier:
"He has blinded their eyes and hardened their hearts, so they can neither see with their eyes, nor understand with their hearts, nor turn—and I would heal them."
This suggests that while we are created with the capacity for faith, God may sometimes judicially harden the hearts of those who stubbornly refuse to believe. However, this is not an arbitrary or discriminatory act, but a consequence of their own choices and rejection of God's revelation.
The overall biblical teaching seems to be that faith is a gift of God's grace, rooted in our human nature as His image-bearers, but that God also reserves the right to withhold that gift from those who persistently harden their hearts against Him. The balance between human responsibility and divine sovereignty in the process of belief is a profound mystery.
hath
*Mt 13:13-15 [13] Therefore I speak to them in parables, because seeing they don’t see, and hearing, they don’t hear, neither do they understand. [14] In them the prophecy of Isaiah is fulfilled, which says, ‘By hearing you will hear, and will in no way understand; Seeing you will see, and will in no way perceive; [15] for this people’s heart has grown callous, their ears are dull of hearing, and they have closed their eyes; or else perhaps they might perceive with their eyes, hear with their ears, understand with their heart, and would turn again, and I would heal them.’
*Mk 4:12 that ‘seeing they may see and not perceive, and hearing they may hear and not understand, lest perhaps they should turn again, and their sins should be forgiven them.’”
*Lk 8:10 He said, “To you it is given to know the mysteries of God’s Kingdom, but to the rest it is given in parables, that ‘seeing they may not see, and hearing they may not understand.’
Jn 9:39 Jesus said, “I came into this world for judgment, that those who don’t see may see; and that those who see may become blind.”
1Ki 22:20 Yahweh said, ‘Who will entice Ahab, that he may go up and fall at Ramoth Gilead?’ One said one thing, and another said another.
Is 29:10 For Yahweh has poured out on you a spirit of deep sleep, and has closed your eyes, the prophets; and he has covered your heads, the seers.
Eze 14:9 “‘“If the prophet is deceived and speaks a word, I, Yahweh, have deceived that prophet, and I will stretch out my hand on him, and will destroy him from among my people Israel.
Mt 15:14 Leave them alone. They are blind guides of the blind. If the blind guide the blind, both will fall into a pit.”
Ac 28:26 saying, ‘Go to this people and say, in hearing, you will hear, but will in no way understand. In seeing, you will see, but will in no way perceive.
Ro 11:8-11 [8] According as it is written, “God gave them a spirit of stupor, eyes that they should not see, and ears that they should not hear, to this very day.” [9] David says, “Let their table be made a snare, a trap, a stumbling block, and a retribution to them. [10] Let their eyes be darkened, that they may not see. Always keep their backs bent.” [11] I ask then, did they stumble that they might fall? May it never be! But by their fall salvation has come to the Gentiles, to provoke them to jealousy.
hardened
Ex 4:21 Yahweh said to Moses, “When you go back into Egypt, see that you do before Pharaoh all the wonders which I have put in your hand, but I will harden his heart and he will not let the people go.
Ex 7:3 I will harden Pharaoh’s heart, and multiply my signs and my wonders in the land of Egypt.
Ex 7:13 Pharaoh’s heart was hardened, and he didn’t listen to them, as Yahweh had spoken.
Ex 14:4 I will harden Pharaoh’s heart, and he will follow after them; and I will get honor over Pharaoh, and over all his armies; and the Egyptians shall know that I am Yahweh.” They did so.
Ex 14:8 Yahweh hardened the heart of Pharaoh king of Egypt, and he pursued the children of Israel; for the children of Israel went out with a high hand.
Ex 14:17 Behold, I myself will harden the hearts of the Egyptians, and they will go in after them. I will get myself honor over Pharaoh, and over all his armies, over his chariots, and over his horsemen.
Jos 11:20 For it was of Yahweh to harden their hearts, to come against Israel in battle, that he might utterly destroy them, that they might have no favor, but that he might destroy them, as Yahweh commanded Moses.
Ro 9:18 So then, he has mercy on whom he desires, and he hardens whom he desires.
Ro 11:7 What then? That which Israel seeks for, that he didn’t obtain, but the chosen ones obtained it, and the rest were hardened.
Guess you would disagree-right?
Johann
Active Member
Is calling Calvinists paganistic-not knowing God and promoting false, heretical teachings an apologia of what you believe is correct and they have it wrong?
Reminds me of this-no offense.
Luk 18:9 And he spake this parable unto certain which trusted in themselves that they were righteous, and despised others:
Luk 18:10 Two men went up into the temple to pray; the one a Pharisee, and the other a publican.
Luk 18:11 The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican.
Luk 18:12 I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess.
Luk 18:13 And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner.
Luk 18:14 I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other: for every one that exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted.
The Rogue Tomato
Active Member
Regardless of the answer, your question is intellectually dishonest. It's not an either/or question, where the only two choices are human capacity or your ridiculous "God ZAPPING people with belief".
synergy
Active Member
Where's the 3rd choice? You still can't find it? Keep searching....
civic
Active Member
Double predestination ( Calvinism ) makes God dishonest.
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