Early Church Creed rejects the main tenant of Calvinism

[atpollard]

Um all who hear and learn can come

Not can … just COMES (read it again). 100% effective … that’s called Irresistible Draw.

 

[civic]

That is not PREDESTINED to damnation as the word “predestined” is used in scripture. We make a distinction because the WORD OF GOD makes a distinction. You with to shove words down our throat and claim there is no difference between the saved and the lost in Romans 8:29-30 … that what God does FOR the saved, he does the opposite TO the lost. Scripture does not teach that, so we Reformed do not claim that. Your LIES about our beliefs, however logical, are patently false slanders of our beliefs and the teachings of scripture.

It is no accident that Sproul and the WCF and the BFM refuse to draw a parallel between the saved and the lost. God draws no such equivalence, so neither do we.

Wrong the Calvinist affirms it with Roman’s 9 those created for destruction by the potter.

Next fallacy

 

[atpollard]

I gave you the position everyone but Calvinists hold in those passages.

What is the bandwagon fallacy?​

The bandwagon fallacy, also known as the appeal to the masses or appeal to common belief fallacy, is the logical fallacy of claiming that something is true because everyone believes it. Whether that belief is actually true or not doesn’t matter—if an arguer claims that a position is true because it’s popular, the arguer is using the bandwagon fallacy.

What is the bandwagon fallacy?

 

[atpollard]

Wrong the Calvinist affirms it with Roman’s 9 those created for destruction by the potter.

Next fallacy

Non sequitur
Answer the question that was asked, please.

 

[civic]

Non sequitur
Answer the question that was asked, please.

sure keep telling yourself that

 

[atpollard]

Wrong the Calvinist affirms it with Roman’s 9 those created for destruction by the potter.

Next fallacy

You reject Romans 9 … got it.
Is there any other chapters in the WORD OF GOD that you personally reject so we should all just ignore as well?

 

[atpollard]

Well, who needs Paul’s Letter to Romans when you have the Council of Orange, RIGHT?

 

[civic]

You reject Romans 9 … got it.
Is there any other chapters in the WORD OF GOD that you personally reject so we should all just ignore as well?

nope just your individualistic/deterministic POV.

its about nations- Israel and the Gentiles as the context proves.

Romans 9-11 is corporate election not individual election.

 

[TomL]

Not can … just COMES (read it again). 100% effective … that’s called Irresistible Draw.

all who hear do not come

Romans 10:17–21 (NASB 2020) — 17 So faith comes from hearing, and hearing by the word of Christ. 18 But I say, surely they have never heard, have they? On the contrary: “THEIR VOICE HAS GONE OUT INTO ALL THE EARTH, AND THEIR WORDS TO THE ENDS OF THE WORLD.” 19 But I say, surely Israel did not know, did they? First Moses says, “I WILL MAKE YOU JEALOUS WITH THOSE WHO ARE NOT A NATION, WITH A FOOLISH NATION I WILL ANGER YOU.” 20 And Isaiah is very bold and says, “I WAS FOUND BY THOSE WHO DID NOT SEEK ME, I REVEALED MYSELF TO THOSE WHO DID NOT ASK FOR ME.” 21 But as for Israel, He says, “I HAVE SPREAD OUT MY HANDS ALL DAY LONG TO A DISOBEDIENT AND OBSTINATE PEOPLE.”

It up to them to learn

 

[civic]

all who hear do not come

Romans 10:17–21 (NASB 2020) — 17 So faith comes from hearing, and hearing by the word of Christ. 18 But I say, surely they have never heard, have they? On the contrary: “THEIR VOICE HAS GONE OUT INTO ALL THE EARTH, AND THEIR WORDS TO THE ENDS OF THE WORLD.” 19 But I say, surely Israel did not know, did they? First Moses says, “I WILL MAKE YOU JEALOUS WITH THOSE WHO ARE NOT A NATION, WITH A FOOLISH NATION I WILL ANGER YOU.” 20 And Isaiah is very bold and says, “I WAS FOUND BY THOSE WHO DID NOT SEEK ME, I REVEALED MYSELF TO THOSE WHO DID NOT ASK FOR ME.” 21 But as for Israel, He says, “I HAVE SPREAD OUT MY HANDS ALL DAY LONG TO A DISOBEDIENT AND OBSTINATE PEOPLE.”

It up to them to learn

Yep another passage refuting tulip

 

[TomL]

Yep another passage refuting tulip

The philosophy influenced by gnostic Manicheanism and Platonism

 

[civic]

The philosophy influenced by gnostic Manicheanism and Platonism

Yes it is my friend. One must deny church history ( facts ) to say otherwise. Many honest Calvinist theologians have acknowledged it’s true .

 

[atpollard]

all who hear do not come

Romans 10:17–21 (NASB 2020) — 17 So faith comes from hearing, and hearing by the word of Christ. 18 But I say, surely they have never heard, have they? On the contrary: “THEIR VOICE HAS GONE OUT INTO ALL THE EARTH, AND THEIR WORDS TO THE ENDS OF THE WORLD.” 19 But I say, surely Israel did not know, did they? First Moses says, “I WILL MAKE YOU JEALOUS WITH THOSE WHO ARE NOT A NATION, WITH A FOOLISH NATION I WILL ANGER YOU.” 20 And Isaiah is very bold and says, “I WAS FOUND BY THOSE WHO DID NOT SEEK ME, I REVEALED MYSELF TO THOSE WHO DID NOT ASK FOR ME.” 21 But as for Israel, He says, “I HAVE SPREAD OUT MY HANDS ALL DAY LONG TO A DISOBEDIENT AND OBSTINATE PEOPLE.”

It up to them to learn

Sorry, I might be tempted to discuss it with you … but Civic is adamant that ROMANS is all about the Nation of Israel and not us Christians, so Chapter 10 cannot be allowed any more than Chapter 9 can be allowed.

Better stick to the Council of Orange and the writings of John Calvin and leave SCRIPTURE out of this topic. (That was the lesson that I learned from my attempts at participation.)

 

[atpollard]

The philosophy influenced by gnostic Manicheanism and Platonism

argumentum ad hominem (guilt by association) fallacy.

 

[atpollard]

Yes it is my friend. One must deny church history ( facts ) to say otherwise. Many honest Calvinist theologians have acknowledged it’s true .

argumentum ad antiquitatem (Appeal to tradition) fallacy.

 

[atpollard]

This is fun … let’s all play “identify that LOGICAL FALLACY”.

 

[civic]

This is fun … let’s all play “identify that LOGICAL FALLACY”.

Like you did with your 3 passages I refuted earlier

 

[TomL]

argumentum ad hominem (guilt by association) fallacy.

Nope simple fact

Augustine was a gnostic manichean for 10 years and is quoted as saying Platonic thought helped him to understand the bible

 

[TomL]

Sorry, I might be tempted to discuss it with you … but Civic is adamant that ROMANS is all about the Nation of Israel and not us Christians, so Chapter 10 cannot be allowed any more than Chapter 9 can be allowed.

Better stick to the Council of Orange and the writings of John Calvin and leave SCRIPTURE out of this topic. (That was the lesson that I learned from my attempts at participation.)

That would be an unfounded assumption

all who hear do not come

Romans 10:17–21 (NASB 2020) — 17 So faith comes from hearing, and hearing by the word of Christ. 18 But I say, surely they have never heard, have they? On the contrary: “THEIR VOICE HAS GONE OUT INTO ALL THE EARTH, AND THEIR WORDS TO THE ENDS OF THE WORLD.” 19 But I say, surely Israel did not know, did they? First Moses says, “I WILL MAKE YOU JEALOUS WITH THOSE WHO ARE NOT A NATION, WITH A FOOLISH NATION I WILL ANGER YOU.” 20 And Isaiah is very bold and says, “I WAS FOUND BY THOSE WHO DID NOT SEEK ME, I REVEALED MYSELF TO THOSE WHO DID NOT ASK FOR ME.” 21 But as for Israel, He says, “I HAVE SPREAD OUT MY HANDS ALL DAY LONG TO A DISOBEDIENT AND OBSTINATE PEOPLE.”

It up to them to learn

 

[TomL]

You reject Romans 9 … got it.
Is there any other chapters in the WORD OF GOD that you personally reject so we should all just ignore as well?

Um Romans 9 does not teach Calvinism