civic
Well-known member
Yes it teaches non Calvinism
Early Church Creed rejects the main tenant of Calvinism
- Thread starter civic
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Try making a fallacy out of this
Appeal to historical fact and Augustine's own words
atpollard
Well-known member
atpollard
Well-known member
It's fine if you do not affirm Romans 9 teaches Calvinism.
The rest of the bible does not either
@atpollard
I guess you do not want to deal with the argument
all who hear do not come
Romans 10:17–21 (NASB 2020) — 17 So faith comes from hearing, and hearing by the word of Christ. 18 But I say, surely they have never heard, have they? On the contrary: “THEIR VOICE HAS GONE OUT INTO ALL THE EARTH, AND THEIR WORDS TO THE ENDS OF THE WORLD.” 19 But I say, surely Israel did not know, did they? First Moses says, “I WILL MAKE YOU JEALOUS WITH THOSE WHO ARE NOT A NATION, WITH A FOOLISH NATION I WILL ANGER YOU.” 20 And Isaiah is very bold and says, “I WAS FOUND BY THOSE WHO DID NOT SEEK ME, I REVEALED MYSELF TO THOSE WHO DID NOT ASK FOR ME.” 21 But as for Israel, He says, “I HAVE SPREAD OUT MY HANDS ALL DAY LONG TO A DISOBEDIENT AND OBSTINATE PEOPLE.”
It up to them to learn
I guess you do not want to deal with the argument
all who hear do not come
Romans 10:17–21 (NASB 2020) — 17 So faith comes from hearing, and hearing by the word of Christ. 18 But I say, surely they have never heard, have they? On the contrary: “THEIR VOICE HAS GONE OUT INTO ALL THE EARTH, AND THEIR WORDS TO THE ENDS OF THE WORLD.” 19 But I say, surely Israel did not know, did they? First Moses says, “I WILL MAKE YOU JEALOUS WITH THOSE WHO ARE NOT A NATION, WITH A FOOLISH NATION I WILL ANGER YOU.” 20 And Isaiah is very bold and says, “I WAS FOUND BY THOSE WHO DID NOT SEEK ME, I REVEALED MYSELF TO THOSE WHO DID NOT ASK FOR ME.” 21 But as for Israel, He says, “I HAVE SPREAD OUT MY HANDS ALL DAY LONG TO A DISOBEDIENT AND OBSTINATE PEOPLE.”
It up to them to learn
atpollard
Well-known member
I simply have no interest in any discussion where some of the Bible is allowed in the discussion and other parts are excluded from being talked about and the OTHER POSITION gets to decide which verses fall into which category.
So do you. You cited a council as proof of your assertion. The same council that asserts baptismal regeneration. Your a cherry picker and a waste of my time
civic
Well-known member
dodging and evasion once again
Waste of time
civic
Well-known member
yes since you deflect all the time. Agreed
Projectionyes since you deflect all the time. Agreed
atpollard
Well-known member
I was meaning to ask for clarification on this bizarre statement.
Below is EVERYTHING on the Council of Jerusalem ... where does it talk about either "heresy" or "Calvinism" (or the Ordo Salutis at all)?
Acts 15 [NKJV]
The Jerusalem Council
6 Now the apostles and elders came together to consider this matter. 7 And when there had been much dispute, Peter rose up and said to them: “Men and brethren, you know that a good while ago God chose among us, that by my mouth the Gentiles should hear the word of the gospel and believe. 8 So God, who knows the heart, acknowledged them by giving them the Holy Spirit, just as He did to us, 9 and made no distinction between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith. 10 Now therefore, why do you test God by putting a yoke on the neck of the disciples which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear? 11 But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved in the same manner as they.”
12 Then all the multitude kept silent and listened to Barnabas and Paul declaring how many miracles and wonders God had worked through them among the Gentiles. 13 And after they had become silent, James answered, saying, “Men and brethren, listen to me: 14 Simon has declared how God at the first visited the Gentiles to take out of them a people for His name. 15 And with this the words of the prophets agree, just as it is written:
16 ‘After this I will return
And will rebuild the tabernacle of David, which has fallen down;
I will rebuild its ruins,
And I will set it up;
17 So that the rest of mankind may seek the LORD,
Even all the Gentiles who are called by My name,
Says the LORD who does all these things.’
18 “Known to God from eternity are all His works. 19 Therefore I judge that we should not trouble those from among the Gentiles who are turning to God, 20 but that we write to them to abstain from things polluted by idols, from sexual immorality, from things strangled, and from blood. 21 For Moses has had throughout many generations those who preach him in every city, being read in the synagogues every Sabbath.”
The Jerusalem Decree
22 Then it pleased the apostles and elders, with the whole church, to send chosen men of their own company to Antioch with Paul and Barnabas, namely, Judas who was also named Barsabas, and Silas, leading men among the brethren.
23 They wrote this letter by them:
The apostles, the elders, and the brethren,
To the brethren who are of the Gentiles in Antioch, Syria, and Cilicia:
Greetings.
24 Since we have heard that some who went out from us have troubled you with words, unsettling your souls, saying, “You must be circumcised and keep the law”—to whom we gave no such commandment— 25 it seemed good to us, being assembled with one accord, to send chosen men to you with our beloved Barnabas and Paul, 26 men who have risked their lives for the name of our Lord Jesus Christ. 27 We have therefore sent Judas and Silas, who will also report the same things by word of mouth. 28 For it seemed good to the Holy Spirit, and to us, to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things: 29 that you abstain from things offered to idols, from blood, from things strangled, and from sexual immorality. If you keep yourselves from these, you will do well.
Farewell.
Bob Carabbio
Well-known member
PERSONALLY, I think things get a lot less problematic, when you simply IGNORE "isms", and go with what's in the Bible.
Romans 9 tends to raise some questions about "election", but Paul didn't appear to worry about it - being "all things to all men" that he might win some - and apparently limiting his Evangelism to "Jesus Christ and him Crucified" and saving the "theology" for discussions with Mature Christians.
It's called seeing what you want to see. Reeks of desperation
civic
Well-known member
like tulip
Grow uplike tulip
civic
Well-known member
projecting
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