Praying to Jesus

[synergy]

John 17: 1 These words spake Jesus, and lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, Father, the hour is come; glorify thy Son, that thy Son also may glorify thee: 2 As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him. 3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent. 4 I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do. 5 And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory "which I had with thee" before the world was. 6 "I have manifested thy name" unto the men which thou gavest me out of the world: thine they were, and thou gavest them me; and they have kept thy word. 7 Now they have known that all things whatsoever thou hast given me are of thee.

The falsehood being promoted on this forum, and throughout the religions of this world, is the lie that this same Rock didn't come to earth as "Fully Man".

We do believe that Jesus is 100% Man and 100% God. 100% is "fully" in my books.

And that He overcame temptation and sin "Because" HE was Fully God and couldn't die, couldn't sin, couldn't be tempted.

Death is defined as the separation of one's body and soul. Jesus' body did separate from his soul so he did experience human death.
Satan certainly tried to tempt him but got nowhere real fast with Jesus.
Notice that Jesus encountered Satan's temptations after he was baptized. This is key. As such, Jesus becomes our Exemplar on how he banked on the Holy Spirit during his sojourn on Earth just as we all should.

Whereas the Holy Scriptures teach that this same Rock laid down His Immortal Life and overcame through Great Faith in His Father and became the first of many mortal humans to receive the gift of immortality because of their Faith in Him.

That is similar to what I said about Jesus being our Exemplar.

I am on the side of the Christ "of the bible", not the religions of this world God placed me in.

Great! Then you agree with Jesus when he said that he is the "I Am" OT God who existed before Abraham existed (Ex 8:58).

 

[Runningman]

There's more to Exo 3:14 than what you were willing to show. Let's see why you did that.

(Exo 3:14) And God said to Moses, I AM THAT I AM. And He said, So you shall say to the sons of Israel, I AM has sent me to you.

"I Am" is God's name, one of many.

So here you are trying to correct God as to how he names himself to Moses. Heretics will always take liberties like that.

Not only that but you are flat out denying Scripture.

John 8:58 εἶπεν αὐτοῖς ᾿Ιησοῦς· ἀμὴν ἀμὴν λέγω ὑμῖν, πρὶν ᾿Αβραὰμ γενέσθαι ἐγὼ εἰμί.
John 8:58 Jesus said to them, Truly, truly, I say to you, Before Abraham came into being, I AM!

I do acknowledge Acts 3:13 but Ex 3 talks about a Divine Appearance. John 6:46 precludes the possibility that it's the Father appearing but John 14:9 allows the Father to be seen when one sees Jesus, the Preincarnate Jesus in this case. So stop being true to your name "Runningman" and start acknowledging the true Jesus who is God.

This is the 4th time that you have avoided John 6:46 and John 14:9 like the plague. Heretics will do that.

Conclusion: Jesus is the "I Am" OT God.

First of all saying the words "I am" isn't a claim to deity. You're assigning meaning to it. God already said He is God, but Jesus never did. There isn't a supportive Scripture to assist your beliefs on this matter. The grammar isn't your friend in John 8:58, no one ever said Jesus is the I AM, no one called Jesus a title that would indicate he is the I AM, etc. Jesus is never even called YHWH, The God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, or any such title that would even hint at what you're proposing.

However, there is a bunch of material to the contrary that proves Jesus isn't the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. Acts 3:13 is a good place for you to hunker down and deal with before making a bunch of claims to the contrary.

Jesus also referred to the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob in the third-person perspective in Matthew 22:32, meaning he was not referring to himself.

So there is no such 1:1 correlation in Scripture for you to hold on to. So far your arguments are revolving around the same tired, worn out, and debunked talking points.

 

[synergy]

First of all saying the words "I am" isn't a claim to deity. You're assigning meaning to it.

God assigned meaning to it, not me. I do not take liberties on what God explicitly says like you do.

(Exo 3:14) And God said to Moses, I AM THAT I AM. And He said, So you shall say to the sons of Israel, I AM has sent me to you.

God already said He is God, but Jesus never did.

False.

John 8:58 Jesus said to them, Truly, truly, I say to you, Before Abraham came into being, I AM!

There isn't a supportive Scripture to assist your beliefs on this matter. The grammar isn't your friend in John 8:58, no one ever said Jesus is the I AM, no one called Jesus a title that would indicate he is the I AM, etc. Jesus is never even called YHWH, The God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, or any such title that would even hint at what you're proposing.

Mark 13:6 For many shall come in My name, saying, I AM, and shall deceive many.

Luke 21:8 And He said, Take heed that you are not deceived, for many shall come in My name, saying, I AM! Also, The time has come! Do not go after them.

It's so over for you. Your attempt to dismiss "I Am" as not a name just got annihilated before your very eyes.

However, there is a bunch of material to the contrary that proves Jesus isn't the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. Acts 3:13 is a good place for you to hunker down and deal with before making a bunch of claims to the contrary.

Of course there are many rabbit holes placed out there so that you can go your entire life denying the Biblical fact that Jesus is God. Suit yourself.

Jesus also referred to the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob in the third-person perspective in Matthew 22:32, meaning he was not referring to himself.

So there is no such 1:1 correlation in Scripture for you to hold on to. So far your arguments are revolving around the same tired, worn out, and debunked talking points.

I do acknowledge Acts 3:13 but Ex 3 talks about a Divine Appearance. John 6:46 precludes the possibility that it's the Father appearing but John 14:9 allows the Father to be seen when one sees Jesus, the Preincarnate Jesus in this case. So stop being true to your name "Runningman" and start acknowledging the true Jesus who is God.

This is the 5th time that you have avoided John 6:46 and John 14:9 like the plague. Heretics will do that.

 

[Runningman]

Z


I don't believe the Scriptures support this understanding. Paul said'

1 Cor. 10: 1 Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye should be ignorant, how that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea; 2 And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea; 3 And did all eat the same spiritual meat; 4 And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.

There is no mention of a spiritual rock that was following the Israelites around in the desert and even if there was it was spiritual in reference to the rock Moses struck and water gushed forth. That would render your understanding as spiritual, as the Scripture states, and not literal. It's all prophetic foreshadowing of Jesus being pierced with water gushing forth.

Clearly the Word of God existed "With God" before the World was. And this Same Word of God "became flesh" or laid down His immortal life, to dwell among men and provide atonement for the repentant. Before He became a man, HE was a Spirit, like His Father. He created all that is created, by instruction of His Father. And when the Time was right, according to His Father, He became a mortal human, brought us God's Word, and for this HE was murdered. But God rose Him from the dead, and He was the very First Mortal Human to receive Immortality, or as it is written, "The First Fruits of "many".

1 John 1:1-2 refers to the Word as an it, a thing. John 1's poem about the Word is personification of a non-person thing. This is precedented since in the OT there isn't an actual person named the Word, but there is plenty of personification of God's words. There is plenty of personification of many things in Scripture that, if taken literal, wouldn't really make any sense. Do you also say the church is literally the Bride of Christ? How is that when you aren't a female and men marrying other men is a sin in Scripture? See, we can go too far with an idea and then it doesn't make sense anymore.

The falsehood being promoted by this world's religions, in my view, is not that the Lord's Christ didn't exist before becoming the man Jesus. The falsehood, in my understanding, is that the "Word of God" that was With God, didn't become "fully man" in the person of Jesus.

You're close, but it wasn't an incarnation. It's that the Word caused flesh to be. In other words, the Word created Jesus. The word "became" flesh in John 1:14 means this throughout the New Testament in the Greek. It's all about cause and effect.

I will point to 1 John 1:1-2 again where the Word is said to be a thing that was revealed to the disciples who were not there at the literal "beginning" of creation to see, hear, or touch anything. Though if 1 John 1:1-2 is suggesting that what they saw, heard, and touched was a man named Jesus then Jesus was a physical man from the beginning of creation, but there is still the problem of the Word being called a thing throughout 1 John 1:1-2 and the issue of Jesus not being the first man, but rather the second man, as Paul said in 1 Cor. 15:47. Therefore, he wasn't eternal anyway and is, in fact, created.

Truly HE is my Lord and Savior, sent by God to "Show me in the way that I should go".

Yes and amen.

John 6: 62 What and if ye shall see the Son of man ascend up where he was before?

Yes, but what did he say he was? The Son of Man? That means a human in Scripture, right?

Is. 48: 16 Come ye near unto me, hear ye this; I have not spoken in secret from the beginning; from the time that it was, there am I: and now the Lord GOD, and his Spirit, hath sent me. 17 Thus saith the LORD, thy Redeemer, the Holy One of Israel; I am the LORD thy God which teacheth thee to profit, which leadeth thee by the way that thou shouldest go. 18 O that thou hadst hearkened to my commandments! then had thy peace been as a river, and thy righteousness as the waves of the sea:

This is the Word of God that became a mortal man, in the person of Jesus.

Jesus and Scripture suggest didn't Jesus didn't pre-exist, but if he did then it suggests it was as a human being and that is problematic in its own way. I say he pre-existed in God's foreknowledge. Now, if there were any examples of Jesus being active in the OT that might be a game changer. I am not talking about someone making an argument. I am talking about Scripture in the OT that identifies Jesus directly and explicitly. None.

 

[Runningman]

This is the 5th time that you have avoided John 6:46 and John 14:9 like the plague. Heretics will do that.

Tired of reading your mind-numbingly bad theology. So let's skip to the end where you decided to lie.

I did already address John 6:46 in comment #202 of this thread. Go read it again. For your theology to work, the Father would have to be a human and god and He isn't. Bad comparison on your part. I think where you are getting lost is you think God is a state of being or a status, rather than a single person as Scripture says. John 17:3 says that the Father in the thing you call "the trinity" is the only true God. You seem to understand that words have meaning. Tell us all what the word "only" means. This should be good watching you do mental gymnastics to dodge this one. popcorn time!

 

[synergy]

Tired of reading your mind-numbingly bad theology. So let's skip to the end where you decided to lie.

I did already address John 6:46 in comment #202 of this thread.

Let's investigate who is the one lying, shall we?

Here is a link to thread #202:

https://berean-apologetics.community.forum/threads/praying-to-jesus.2061/post-115983

Tell us, my friend, how in the world does your sentence "Jesus is never called the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob in scripture. You don't have a point. That's one of God's exclusive titles." address John 6:49 and John 14:9. In fact, that sentence is nowhere close to what you wrote below.
We can all see that you're the one lying. That's why you didn't create a link. You thought I wouldn't bother to check.

Go read it again. For your theology to work, the Father would have to be a human and god and He isn't. Bad comparison on your part. I think where you are getting lost is you think God is a state of being or a status, rather than a single person as Scripture says. John 17:3 says that the Father in the thing you call "the trinity" is the only true God. You seem to understand that words have meaning. Tell us all what the word "only" means. This should be good watching you do mental gymnastics to dodge this one. popcorn time!

You skate around what I actually said. Let me try to make it as simple as I can in 3 easy steps:

1. I do acknowledge Acts 3:13 but Ex 3 describes a Divine Appearance. Do you understand that fact?
2. John 6:46 precludes the possibility that it's the Father appearing to anyone except Christ but
3. John 14:9 allows the Father to be seen when one sees Jesus, the Preincarnate Jesus in the case of Ex 3.

So now, why in the world would the "Father ... have to be a human and god"? Where did you get the notion that I'm getting lost because I think God is a state of being or a status? The Trinity is not a "thing". Your condescending attitude is duly noted. The qualifier "only' is applied to God, not to the Father. In other words, it's not that only the Father is God. Therefore, John 17:3 is a perfectly Trinitarian verse.

Conclusion: Jesus is the "I Am" OT God mentioned in Ex 3.

 

[synergy]

duplicate.

 

[TomL]

The vast majority of things Jesus did or will do there are others who are doing the same who are not God.

Really ?

Who can you call on for salvation

Who can save your soul

Who must you receive to become a child of God

Who else will judge you in the end

Who created all things

Your comment is rather short sighted

 

[TomL]

Different contexts and you're disregarding the chronology of Revelation on this point. In Revelation 19:11, John recorded "Then I saw heaven standing open, and there before me was a white horse" but in Revelation 17:14-18 the Lamb was already on earth having his war. The Rider on the white horse isn't even in the same context as the Lamb nor in the same location.

Furthermore, most of the descriptors of the Rider on the white horse don't apply to Jesus and the ones that do apply to Jesus can just as easily apply to the Father. I believe your points have been soundly overruled by Scripture, especially given the fact Jesus and the Rider aren't described the same way or as in the same place at the same time.

Same titles and characteristics

And you have not shown any descriptions do not apply to Jesus but we know the father did not die

And so you confess Christ judges

I do not need to as all judgment has been committed to Christ and he has the sword coming out of his mouth

As I noted


Revelation 19:11–16 (KJV 1900) — 11 And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war. 12 His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself. 13 And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God. 14 And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean. 15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God. 16 And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.

compare

Revelation 1:13–18 (KJV 1900) — 13 And in the midst of the seven candlesticks one like unto the Son of man, clothed with a garment down to the foot, and girt about the paps with a golden girdle. 14 His head and his hairs were white like wool, as white as snow; and his eyes were as a flame of fire; 15 And his feet like unto fine brass, as if they burned in a furnace; and his voice as the sound of many waters. 16 And he had in his right hand seven stars: and out of his mouth went a sharp two edged sword: and his countenance was as the sun shineth in his strength. 17 And when I saw him, I fell at his feet as dead. And he laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, Fear not; I am the first and the last: 18 I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.

and

Revelation 17:14 (NASB 2020) — 14 These will wage war against the Lamb, and the Lamb will overcome them because He is Lord of lords and King of kings; and those who are with Him are the called and chosen and faithful.”

The lamb is victorious in battle for he is the king of kings and the lord of lords

Your claim that changing the order of king of kings and lord of lord necessitates a change of person is absurd and a product of desparation


You have consistently ignored the facts seen in revelation and run elsewherer

 

[TomL]

If this was Jesus it would imply the Father has no idea what name was written on Jesus. Since the Father is omniscient and Jesus clearly isn't in Matthew 24:36 then the rider is the Father.

Revelation 1
12...He has a name written on Him that only He Himself knows.
Matthew 24
36No one knows about that day or hour, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father.

Jesus is never described as having a robe dipped in blood in Scripture. Jesus was stripped of his clothing during his crucifixion and he wasn't wearing a robe, he was wearing a tunic. However, the Father is described as having a robe with blood on it. Furthermore, Jesus is never described as treading a winepress, but the Father is described as doing it alone.

Isaiah 63
3“I have trodden the winepress alone,
And from the peoples no one was with Me.
For I have trodden them in My anger,
And trampled them in My fury;
Their blood is sprinkled upon My garments,
And I have stained all My robes.

Revelation 19
13He is dressed in a robe dipped in blood...

Revelation 19
15...He treads the winepress of the fury of the wrath of God the Almighty.

There is not enough Biblical precedent to support your theory.

There you go again ignoring the immediate context and running elsewhere

Not in revelation which you keep ignoring

Jesus the lamb is the only one specifically states to have a sword coming out of his mouth

Revelation 1:12–18 (NASB 2020) — 12 Then I turned to see the voice that was speaking with me. And after turning I saw seven golden lampstands; 13 and in the middle of the lampstands I saw one like a son of man, clothed in a robe reaching to the feet, and wrapped around the chest with a golden sash. 14 His head and His hair were white like white wool, like snow; and His eyes were like a flame of fire. 15 His feet were like burnished bronze when it has been heated to a glow in a furnace, and His voice was like the sound of many waters. 16 In His right hand He held seven stars, and out of His mouth came a sharp two-edged sword; and His face was like the sun shining in its strength. 17 When I saw Him, I fell at His feet like a dead man. And He placed His right hand on me, saying, “Do not be afraid; I am the first and the last, 18 and the living One; and I was dead, and behold, I am alive forevermore, and I have the keys of death and of Hades.

You are simply not willing to allow the text to speak for itself

As was noted the scene here is the book of revelation not the old terstament
the scene here is not the crucifixion but of war

Revelation 17:14 (NASB 2020) — 14 These will wage war against the Lamb, and the Lamb will overcome them because He is Lord of lords and King of kings; and those who are with Him are the called and chosen and faithful.”

And it is lamb in war

and he is clothed in a robe

Revelation 1:12–18 (NASB 2020) — 12 Then I turned to see the voice that was speaking with me. And after turning I saw seven golden lampstands; 13 and in the middle of the lampstands I saw one like a son of man, clothed in a robe reaching to the feet, and wrapped around the chest with a golden sash.

We have a lam, a son of man, who is kings of kings lord of lords, was dead, but is now alive, he has a sword coming out of his mouth and eyes of blazing fire

This is the risen Christ

 

[Selah]

I'm not. Here, I'll ask you these simple questions and see if you can bring yourself to answer them.

"I believe God when HE defined His New Covenant in Jeremiah. What changed was the manner in which God's Laws are received, and how sins are atoned for, at least this is what HE said as you can see In God's Own Words.

"after those days, says the Lord: I will put My law in their minds, and write it on their hearts".

So how did men receive God's Law in the First Covenant, according to Scriptures?

"For I will forgive their iniquity, and their sin I will remember no more.”

And how was forgiveness of Sins provided for in the First covenant, according to Scriptures?

It seems these are prudent questions that have an answer and must be answered before continuing."

These are important questions concerning the Covenant God is speaking about."

There are many covenants in the Old Testament, all of which failed because of man’s wickedness. Consider the covenants with Noah and Abraham and Moses—All of these covenants were broken by man. The 10 commandments of the Law were continually broken and God was not pleased with their burnt offerings and sacrifices. In Isaiah 1:11, God says:
"To what purpose is the multitude of your sacrifices to Me?" Says the LORD. "I have had enough of burnt offerings of rams And the fat of fed cattle. I do not delight in the blood of bulls, Or of lambs or goats.”

The New Covenant that is described in the book of Jeremiah, and other places in the Word, is an everlasting covenant, This is still future and will happen in the latter days after Jesus Christ returns to the earth. This is God’s grace we’re seeing:
Jeremiah 31:33 "But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people."

This New Covenant takes place in the Millennium at the 7th trump, the Day of the Lord. This is the time when the earth is cleansed of all evil. It is God who will place in the minds of all souls the mind of Christ, and all souls will will be taught to do what is right so that no one will have to ask his neighbor what is right or wrong.

God bless you,

Selah

 

[DavidTree]

So Zacharias and Simeon were not under the Levitical Priesthood in which the people received God's Laws, and through which God provided for their forgivness?



Here is what the Holy Scriptures teach about the First Covenant.

Heb. 9: 1 Then verily the "first covenant" had also ordinances of divine service, and a worldly sanctuary. 2 For there was a tabernacle made; the first, wherein was the candlestick, and the table, and the shewbread; which is called the sanctuary.

Where is any of this existing in the Passover observance? You call Passover the Old Covenant, yet God didn't bring Israel out of Egypt until the day AFTER Passover. There was no Levite Priest, no alter, no tabernacle, no Ten Commandments.

So how is Passover a part of the First covenant Hebrews is speaking to?

If you had answered my questions concerning how men "received God's Laws, and how sins were forgiven in the old covenant, you would know better.


But the Jesus "of the bible" said;

John 6: 53 Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you.

We are to keep this observance throughout our life, "In remembrance of HIM". But what happened to the Levitical Priesthood "After the Order of Aaron"?



Yes, as Zacharias and Simeon, still under the Levitical Priesthood, understood.

Luke 1: 67 And his father Zacharias was filled with the Holy Ghost, and prophesied, saying, 68 Blessed be the Lord God of Israel; for he hath visited and redeemed his people, 69 And hath raised up an horn of salvation for us "in the house of his servant David"; (Not Levi)

Luke 2: 28 Then took he him up in his arms, and blessed God, and said, 29 Lord, now lettest thou thy servant depart in peace, according to thy word: 30 For mine eyes have seen thy salvation, 31 Which thou hast prepared before the face of all people; 32 A light to lighten the Gentiles, and the glory of thy people Israel.

Passover is never, was never and will never be a part of the Levitical Priesthood that grew old and was ready to vanish. It is not part of the old Covenant that became old and vanished.

Good Morning

PLEASE read scripture carefully and BELIEVE what is written = God said the old covenant BEGAN on Passover in Egypt

ABC's of TRUTH

“Behold, the days are coming, says the Lord, when:
A - I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah—
B - not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers
C - in the day that I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt,
D - Don't forget this: My covenant which they broke, = D stands for Death

 

[DavidTree]

There are many covenants in the Old Testament, all of which failed because of man’s wickedness. Consider the covenants with Noah and Abraham and Moses—All of these covenants were broken by man. The 10 commandments of the Law were continually broken and God was not pleased with their burnt offerings and sacrifices. In Isaiah 1:11, God says:
"To what purpose is the multitude of your sacrifices to Me?" Says the LORD. "I have had enough of burnt offerings of rams And the fat of fed cattle. I do not delight in the blood of bulls, Or of lambs or goats.”

The New Covenant that is described in the book of Jeremiah, and other places in the Word, is an everlasting covenant, This is still future and will happen in the latter days after Jesus Christ returns to the earth. This is God’s grace we’re seeing:
Jeremiah 31:33 "But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people."

This New Covenant takes place in the Millennium at the 7th trump, the Day of the Lord. This is the time when the earth is cleansed of all evil. It is God who will place in the minds of all souls the mind of Christ, and all souls will will be taught to do what is right so that no one will have to ask his neighbor what is right or wrong.

God bless you,

Selah

Good Morning

And He took bread, gave thanks and broke it, and gave it to them, saying, “This is My body which is given for you; do this in remembrance of Me.”
Likewise He also took the cup after supper, saying, “This cup is the new covenant in My blood, which is shed for you.

Dear Selah, the New Covenant is the LORD Jesus Christ for HE is our Passover LAMB that takes away the sins of the world.
Remember what John the Baptist(Greatest OT Prophet) prophesied this of JESUS:

The next day John saw Jesus coming toward him, and said, “Behold! The Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world!
This is He of whom I said, ‘After me comes a Man who is preferred before me, for He was before me.’
I did not know Him; but that He should be revealed to Israel, therefore I came baptizing with water.”

 

[Selah]

Good Morning

And He took bread, gave thanks and broke it, and gave it to them, saying, “This is My body which is given for you; do this in remembrance of Me.”
Likewise He also took the cup after supper, saying, “This cup is the new covenant in My blood, which is shed for you.

Dear Selah, the New Covenant is the LORD Jesus Christ for HE is our Passover LAMB that takes away the sins of the world.
Remember what John the Baptist(Greatest OT Prophet) prophesied this of JESUS:

The next day John saw Jesus coming toward him, and said, “Behold! The Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world!
This is He of whom I said, ‘After me comes a Man who is preferred before me, for He was before me.’
I did not know Him; but that He should be revealed to Israel, therefore I came baptizing with water.”

Amen.

In the book of Jeremiah, chapter 31:33, we are given a prophecy for the latter days.

Jeremiah 31:33 "But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people."

This happens in the future at the Second Advent, the day that Christ will return to make these things come to pass.

It’s okay if we don’t agree on this. :]


Selah

 

[Selah]

Jeremiah 30:24 "The fierce anger of the Lord shall not return, until He have done it, and until He have performed the intents of His heart: in the latter days ye shall consider it."
s.

 

[synergy]

This New Covenant takes place in the Millennium at the 7th trump, the Day of the Lord. This is the time when the earth is cleansed of all evil. It is God who will place in the minds of all souls the mind of Christ, and all souls will will be taught to do what is right so that no one will have to ask his neighbor what is right or wrong.

God bless you,

Selah

The New Covenant is practiced right now as Communion.

1Cor 11:25 In the same way He took the cup also, after supping, saying, "This cup is the New Covenant in My blood; as often as you drink it, do this in remembrance of Me."

1Cor 10:16 The cup of blessing which we bless, is it not the communion of the blood of Christ? The bread which we break, is it not the communion of the body of Christ?

 

[DavidTree]

Amen.

In the book of Jeremiah, chapter 31:33, we are given a prophecy for the latter days.

Jeremiah 31:33 "But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people."

This happens in the future at the Second Advent, the day that Christ will return to make these things come to pass.

It’s okay if we don’t agree on this. :]


Selah

Yes, we can disagree on what we see BUT we should continue in His Love to look at scripture and compare our thinking to the THINKING of Scripture which is the Way of Life.

Let us break Bread together which is sharing our faith in JESUS and speaking the Holy Scriptures to one another in love.

Example: Hebrews Chapter 8 confirms the present day establishment of the new covenant and our New High Priest of The NEW Covenant

1Now this is the main point of the things we are saying: We have such a High Priest, who is seated at the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in the heavens, 2a Minister of the [a]sanctuary and of the true tabernacle which the Lord erected, and not man.
3For every high priest is appointed to offer both gifts and sacrifices. Therefore it is necessary that this One also have something to offer. 4For if He were on earth, He would not be a priest, since there are priests who offer the gifts according to the law; 5who serve the copy and shadow of the heavenly things, as Moses was divinely instructed when he was about to make the tabernacle. For He said, “See that you make all things according to the pattern shown you on the mountain.” 6But now He has obtained a more excellent ministry, inasmuch as He is also Mediator of a better covenant, which was established on better promises.
For if that first covenant had been faultless, then no place would have been sought for a second. 8Because finding fault with them, He says: “Behold, the days are coming, says the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah— 9not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they did not continue in My covenant, and I disregarded them, says the Lord. 10For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord: I will put My laws in their mind and write them on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people. 11None of them shall teach his neighbor, and none his brother, saying, ‘Know the Lord,’ for all shall know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them. 12For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their lawless deeds I will remember no more.”

13In that He says, “A new covenant,” He has made the first obsolete. Now what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away.

 

[TOTHALORDBEALLGLORY]

That was the Eternal Word, the LORD, speaking to Moses.

And the Father Himself, who sent Me, has testified of Me. You have neither heard His voice at any time, nor seen His form. - John 5:37

Not that any man hath seen the Father, save He which is of God, He hath seen the Father.
John 6:36

Something of pure beauty and very interesting was once said by That very Word become flesh . aka JESUS THE CHRIST .
First let me take us back to the days of moses who would later WRITE of JESUS THE CHRIST .
What did moses ask GOD . WHO shall i say sent me . I AM , tell them I AM sent you . I AM as i am .
NOW for something real interesting .
WHAT DID JESUS say when praying . I HAVE GIVEN THEM YOUR NAME . I HAVE MANFEST your NAME .
manifest , to make seen . TO make known and seen .
Thomas , IF you have SEEN ME you have SEEN the FATHER . so why do you say show us the Father .
Me thinks its high time diety deniers stop denying and rather just believe that which is written .

 

[Studyman]

There is no mention of a spiritual rock that was following the Israelites around in the desert and even if there was it was spiritual in reference to the rock Moses struck and water gushed forth. That would render your understanding as spiritual, as the Scripture states, and not literal. It's all prophetic foreshadowing of Jesus being pierced with water gushing forth.

The God portrayed in the Holy Scriptures is a Spirit, according to Scriptures. The Christ, before becoming a man, was a Spirit as well, that existed in the Minds of the Prophets who prophesied of Him becoming a man and dwelling among humans in human form.

Gen. 3: 22 And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become "as one of us", to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever: 23 Therefore the LORD God sent him forth from the garden of Eden, to till the ground from whence he was taken.

I just posted Paul's words, who in my opinion knows more than you about God and the Law and Prophets, which tell you the Spiritual Rock that fed and watered (instructed and guided) Israel, was the Spirit of Christ, "Before" HE became a man in the person of Jesus.

I understand how his teaching brings question to the Philosophy you have adopted and are now promoting to others, and therefore, as is the tradition of religious men, you have the fleshy urge to ignore or discount Paul as mistaken. Perhaps it is wise to consider allowing Scriptures to correct us, instead of us working to correct them.

1 John 1:1-2 refers to the Word as an it, a thing. John 1's poem about the Word is personification of a non-person thing.

Again, you are injecting your own personal bias into the Scripture to the point of actually making up stuff that doesn't exist.

John 1: 1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was "with God", and the Word "was God". 2 The same was in the beginning "with God". 3 All things were made by him; (The Word of God) and without "him" was not anything made that was made. 4 "In him" (The Word of God) was life; and the life was the light of men.

14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld "his" glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

So you see? The Word of God is a HE, according to John, not a thing as you are promoting to others.

This is precedented since in the OT there isn't an actual person named the Word, but there is plenty of personification of God's words. There is plenty of personification of many things in Scripture that, if taken literal, wouldn't really make any sense. Do you also say the church is literally the Bride of Christ? How is that when you aren't a female and men marrying other men is a sin in Scripture? See, we can go too far with an idea and then it doesn't make sense anymore.

Gen. 15: 1 After these things "the word of the LORD" came unto Abram in a vision, saying, Fear not, Abram: "I" (The Word of the Lord) am thy shield, and thy exceeding great reward.

Ex. 9: 20 He that feared the word of the LORD among the servants of Pharaoh made his servants and his cattle flee into the houses: 21 And he that "regarded not" the word of the LORD left his servants and his cattle in the field.

Num. 15: 31 Because he hath despised the word of the LORD, and hath broken "his" (The Word of the Lord's) commandment, that soul shall utterly be cut off; his iniquity shall be upon him.

So you see? In your attempt to justify your adopted religion, you have again promoted falsehoods about God and HIS Word, teaching that the "Word of God" was not an actual living being, but a thing.

The question is, can you be corrected, or are you just like many of the other preachers on this forum not capable of "yielding themselves" to the "Word of God" who became flesh.

You're close, but it wasn't an incarnation. It's that the Word caused flesh to be. In other words, the Word created Jesus. The word "became" flesh in John 1:14 means this throughout the New Testament in the Greek. It's all about cause and effect.

It's about a religious philosophy you have adopted and are now promoting to others. The Scriptures teach that the Word of God "became Flesh" in the person of Jesus. You are preaching that the Word of God "created" the person Jesus. I know the Scriptures, but who are you?

I will point to 1 John 1:1-2 again where the Word is said to be a thing that was revealed to the disciples who were not there at the literal "beginning" of creation to see, hear, or touch anything. Though if 1 John 1:1-2 is suggesting that what they saw, heard, and touched was a man named Jesus then Jesus was a physical man from the beginning of creation,

Can you show me one place in my post where I said, suggested or even implied that Jesus was a thousands of years old mortal human? Come on sir, God is a Spirit, and the Christ, the Holy One of Israel, the "Rock" of David's Salvation, was also a Spirit. This Rock, this "Word of God" that was with God, "Became" a mortal human and dwelled among men. And what does it say about this Spirit who became a man?

Phil. 2: 6 Who, being in "the form of God", (A Spirit guiding Israel in the Wilderness) thought it not robbery to be equal with God:

7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:

No longer a Spirit, but a mortal human being, as He said, "He Laid down His Life".

8 And being found in fashion as a man, (When was this sir? when HE was 6 months old crapping His diaper, of when HE grew up and was old enough to understand who HE was?) he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross. 9 Wherefore (Because of this) God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name "which is above every name":

but there is still the problem of the Word being called a thing throughout 1 John 1:1-2 and the issue of Jesus not being the first man, but rather the second man, as Paul said in 1 Cor. 15:47. Therefore, he wasn't eternal anyway and is, in fact, created.

But as the Scriptures clearly show, John didn't call the Word of God "A Thing". John called the Word of God, "HE". The same in Genesis, Exodus, Numbers, and throughout the entire Bible.

1 Sam. 15: 22 And Samuel said, Hath the LORD as great delight in burnt offerings and sacrifices, as in obeying the voice of the LORD? Behold, to obey is better than sacrifice, and to hearken than the fat of rams. 23 For rebellion is as the sin of witchcraft, and stubbornness is as iniquity and idolatry. Because thou hast rejected the "word of the LORD", "he" ( The Word of the Lord) hath also rejected thee from being king.

You, not John, not the Law and Prophets, not anyone in the entire Bible, are calling the "Word of the Lord" a "thing".

Shouldn't a man believe what is written?

Yes and amen.

Yes, but what did he say he was? The Son of Man? That means a human in Scripture, right?

What makes a man? Flesh? Bones? Or thoughts? Without thoughts, what is a man? A pile of blood cells and water. As the Jesus "of the Bible" teaches. Thoughts can exist in a Spirit, but without thoughts, the flesh is nothing.

62 What and if ye shall see the Son of man ascend up where he was before?

63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

"For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God."

Jesus and Scripture suggest didn't Jesus didn't pre-exist, but if he did then it suggests it was as a human being and that is problematic in its own way.

There is nothing in Scriptures which even remotely promotes what you are promoting here. The Spirit which "became a man" in the person of Jesus, existed even before Abraham. Jesus tries to tell you this, but some men cannot receive Him. If I were you, I would stop adopting the religious philosophies of whoever it is that is teaching you and place your trust in the God Inspired Holy Scriptures, " for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness".

It can be humiliating at first, but humiliation is the cure for pride.

I say he pre-existed in God's foreknowledge.

The mortal man Jesus did pre-exist in the foreknowledge of God. But the Spirit of Christ which became the mortal man Jesus, existed with His Father before the world was. At least according to the Jesus "of the Bible".

Now, if there were any examples of Jesus being active in the OT that might be a game changer. I am not talking about someone making an argument. I am talking about Scripture in the OT that identifies Jesus directly and explicitly. None.

To deny that the Spirit of Christ wasn't active in the OT, as the "Word of God" is foolishness at best, and evil at worse.

 

[Runningman]

Let's investigate who is the one lying, shall we?

Here is a link to thread #202:

https://berean-apologetics.community.forum/threads/praying-to-jesus.2061/post-115983

Tell us, my friend, how in the world does your sentence "Jesus is never called the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob in scripture. You don't have a point. That's one of God's exclusive titles." address John 6:49 and John 14:9. In fact, that sentence is nowhere close to what you wrote below.
We can all see that you're the one lying. That's why you didn't create a link. You thought I wouldn't bother to check.

You skate around what I actually said. Let me try to make it as simple as I can in 3 easy steps:

1. I do acknowledge Acts 3:13 but Ex 3 describes a Divine Appearance. Do you understand that fact?
2. John 6:46 precludes the possibility that it's the Father appearing to anyone except Christ but
3. John 14:9 allows the Father to be seen when one sees Jesus, the Preincarnate Jesus in the case of Ex 3.

So now, why in the world would the "Father ... have to be a human and god"? Where did you get the notion that I'm getting lost because I think God is a state of being or a status? The Trinity is not a "thing". Your condescending attitude is duly noted. The qualifier "only' is applied to God, not to the Father. In other words, it's not that only the Father is God. Therefore, John 17:3 is a perfectly Trinitarian verse.

Conclusion: Jesus is the "I Am" OT God mentioned in Ex 3.

The link I provided you in my previous reply goes to comment #205 which is what I meant to say. Check comment #205 where I already addressed your question.

I said "God isn't a human like Jesus is. The Bible say so. Do you believe the Bible? I am afraid you are missing the point about seeing the Son to see the Father."

So now that we have you on record lying, care to explain how I didn't address your comment for what you said was the 5th time? I already addressed it in comment #205. You're in the hot seat now. The floor is yours.