Runningman
Well-known member
Jesus' robe is never described as being dipped in blood. YHWH's robe is as already pointed out. That's a checkmate for me on that point.
Praying to Jesus
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Runningman
Well-known member
Scripture teaches that God judges by the man he appointed. Jesus said he judges based on the Father's will. Jesus doesn't make his own judgements according to Scripture. The actual judge is the Father. You have also lost this point.
DavidTree
Well-known member
100% TRUE
Except John the Baptist was born from Zacharias and his wife Elizabeth.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
The Word which was with God from the Beginning was placed inside Mary's womb via the Holy Spirit.
The Word became flesh and made His dwelling among us. We have seen His glory, the glory of the only begotten Son of the Father, full of Grace and Truth.
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Not in revelation which you keep ignoring
Jesus the lamb is the only one specifically states to have a sword coming out of his mouth
Revelation 1:12–18 (NASB 2020) — 12 Then I turned to see the voice that was speaking with me. And after turning I saw seven golden lampstands; 13 and in the middle of the lampstands I saw one like a son of man, clothed in a robe reaching to the feet, and wrapped around the chest with a golden sash. 14 His head and His hair were white like white wool, like snow; and His eyes were like a flame of fire. 15 His feet were like burnished bronze when it has been heated to a glow in a furnace, and His voice was like the sound of many waters. 16 In His right hand He held seven stars, and out of His mouth came a sharp two-edged sword; and His face was like the sun shining in its strength. 17 When I saw Him, I fell at His feet like a dead man. And He placed His right hand on me, saying, “Do not be afraid; I am the first and the last, 18 and the living One; and I was dead, and behold, I am alive forevermore, and I have the keys of death and of Hades.
You are simply not willing to allow the text to speak for itself
Except the scene here is the book of revelation not the old terstament
Except the scene here is not the crucifixion but of war
Revelation 17:14 (NASB 2020) — 14 These will wage war against the Lamb, and the Lamb will overcome them because He is Lord of lords and King of kings; and those who are with Him are the called and chosen and faithful.”
And it is lamb in war
and he is clothed in a robe
Revelation 1:12–13 (NASB 2020) — 12 Then I turned to see the voice that was speaking with me. And after turning I saw seven golden lampstands; 13 and in the middle of the lampstands I saw one like a son of man, clothed in a robe reaching to the feet, and wrapped around the chest with a golden sash.
yet additional points of confirmation
DavidTree
Well-known member
By your reply it seems as though you do not understand that the old covenant is no longer a covenant between God and man.
i am under the NEW Covenant made by MESSIAH with His BLOOD
And He took bread, gave thanks and broke it, and gave it to them, saying, “This is My body which is given for you; do this in remembrance of Me.”
Likewise He also took the cup after supper, saying, “This cup is the New Covenant in My blood, which is shed for you.
And so you confess Christ judges
I do not need to as all judgment has been committed to Christ and he has the sword coming out of his mouth
As I noted
Revelation 19:11–16 (KJV 1900) — 11 And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war. 12 His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself. 13 And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God. 14 And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean. 15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God. 16 And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.
compare
Revelation 1:13–18 (KJV 1900) — 13 And in the midst of the seven candlesticks one like unto the Son of man, clothed with a garment down to the foot, and girt about the paps with a golden girdle. 14 His head and his hairs were white like wool, as white as snow; and his eyes were as a flame of fire; 15 And his feet like unto fine brass, as if they burned in a furnace; and his voice as the sound of many waters. 16 And he had in his right hand seven stars: and out of his mouth went a sharp two edged sword: and his countenance was as the sun shineth in his strength. 17 And when I saw him, I fell at his feet as dead. And he laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, Fear not; I am the first and the last: 18 I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.
and
Revelation 17:14 (NASB 2020) — 14 These will wage war against the Lamb, and the Lamb will overcome them because He is Lord of lords and King of kings; and those who are with Him are the called and chosen and faithful.”
The lamb is victorious in battle for he is the king of kings and the lord of lords
Your claim that changing the order of king of kings and lord of lord necessitates a change of person is absurd and a product of desparation
You have consistently ignored the facts seen in revelation and run elsewherer
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I simply want you to answer my questions regarding God's Own Definition of His New covenant, and how it is changed from the old.
DavidTree
Well-known member
Post 285 edited so please review - thank you Studyman
You are flat out denying Scripture now.
Joh 8:58 εἶπεν αὐτοῖς ᾿Ιησοῦς· ἀμὴν ἀμὴν λέγω ὑμῖν, πρὶν ᾿Αβραὰμ γενέσθαι ἐγὼ εἰμί.
Joh 8:58 Jesus said to them, Truly, truly, I say to you, Before Abraham came into being, I AM!
It was sufficient for Jesus to call himself "I Am". Jesus never got your memo that he would have to mention all his names before you would believe him. One name was sufficient for the Pharisees to want to stone him.
This is the third time that you have avoided John 6:46 and John 14:9 like the plague. Heretics will do that.
DavidTree
Well-known member
God's Verification of a New Covenant NOT according to the old = Jeremiah 31:31-35
God's Definition of the New Covenant in MESSIAH = Gospel
And He took bread, gave thanks and broke it, and gave it to them, saying, “This is My body which is given for you; do this in remembrance of Me.”
Likewise He also took the cup after supper, saying, “This cup is the New Covenant in My blood, which is shed for you.
But that isn't the answer to any of my questions. Why will you not simply answer my questions?
Runningman
Well-known member
John one isn't called the Word anywhere in John 1. It doesn't say the word incarnated either. It says the word "became" flesh which isn't used to describe incarnations anywhere it's used in Scripture. It refers to a cause and effect kind of situation where the Word caused Jesus to be. Jesus was created by God, but is not God.
Focus on the issues and drop the false accusations. You're lucky I am not one of those who will attach myself the drama and draw it out for several months. I am not so petty so let's be adults here.
Yes, we are in the book of Revelation. Did you know Revelation is chocked for of imagery and symbols? That's why I also mentioned what the sword is and explained how the "sword coming out of his mouth" idea isn't literal, but refers to Jesus speaking the words God gave him. So since Jesus' words are not his own, but he repeats what the Father says, then doesn't the Father also have a ""sword coming out of His mouth" too?
So a mortal man's body was sacrificed for your sins. Correct?
Verse padding with tons of other Scripture that we have already discussed and were proven to not mean Jesus is God doesn't help the case that Jesus is the rider on the horse. It doesn't even completely describe Jesus.
YHWH's robe is dipped in blood and Jesus' robe isn't. Isaiah 63:3
Jesus was never called the Word in Scripture, but John 1:1 calls the Father the Word because it says the "Word was God" and the Father is the only true God.That means Jesus isn't God. John 17:3
There is someone else that barely any commentaries believe is Jesus who also has fire in their eyes. Daniel 10:6
The Father has a sword in His mouth as well because the sword is the word of God. Ephesians 6:17
The Father is the only King of kings and Lord of lords according to 1 Timothy 6:16.
He has a name written on Him that only He Himself knows. That wouldn't be Jesus since Jesus isn't described as omniscient in Scripture. Matthew 24:36
That you for admitting that Jesus is never called the "King of kings and Lord of lords" in that specific word order in Scripture. Therefore Jesus isn't the rider.
Here, I will ask you again;
"I believe God when HE defined His New Covenant in Jeremiah. What changed was the manner in which God's Laws are received, and how sins are atoned for, at least this is what HE said as you can see above in your own posting.
"after those days, says the Lord: I will put My law in their minds, and write it on their hearts".
So, in your religion, how did men receive God's Law in the First Covenant, according to Scriptures?
"For I will forgive their iniquity, and their sin I will remember no more.”
And how was forgiveness of Sins provided for in the First covenant, according to Scriptures?
It seems these are prudent questions that have an answer and must be answered before continuing."
You said you would answer my questions. But you haven't. Please for the sake of honest discussion, answer these prudent questions.
How then, were sins atoned for in the Old Covenant?
The Judaizing action that many are manifesting in this forum is their denial that Jesus is God. That's a throwback to the Judaizing action that the Pharisees manifested when they did not believe Jesus when he proclaimed that he is the "I Am" God of the OT. See John 8:58.
Runningman
Well-known member
Jesus loves you too and so do we who are sharing our testimony of faith concerning the Father who is the only true God and His Son Jesus.
DavidTree
Well-known member
Your question has 2 parts = 2 questions in one.
This first part has been accurately and definitively answered by God's own Mouth
Is answered, again by the LORD Jesus, in His Gospel and in Acts.
Jesus answered and said to her, “Whoever drinks of this water will thirst again, but whoever drinks of the water that I shall give him will never thirst. But the water that I shall give him will become in him a fountain of water springing up into everlasting life.”
The woman said to Him, “Sir, I perceive that You are a prophet. Our fathers worshiped on this mountain, and you Jews say that in Jerusalem is the place where one ought to worship.”
Jesus said to her, “Woman, believe Me, the hour is coming when you will neither on this mountain, nor in Jerusalem, worship the Father. You worship what you do not know; we know what we worship, for salvation is of the Jews. But the hour is coming, and now is, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth; for the Father is seeking such to worship Him. God is Spirit, and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth.”
If you love Me, [d]keep My commandments. 16And I will pray the Father, and He will give you another [e]Helper, that He may abide with you forever— 17the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees Him nor knows Him; but you know Him, for He dwells with you and will be in you. 18I will not leave you orphans; I will come to you.
Acts chapters 1 and 2 = please review
DavidTree
Well-known member
You just CHANGED Scripture = ever so slightly that most will not notice.
Runningman
Well-known member
Since I didn't call Jesus a liar then to put it lightly, you are misrepresenting me. At worst, since I never did what you said I did, you would be the liar. I assume you are not intentionally trying to be deceptive because you seem like a good person.
Which part did you think others may see Jesus as lying?
Runningman
Well-known member
Where did I change Scripture?
DavidTree
Well-known member
100% TRUTH
