Pauls use of Predestination

[Presby02]

Which doesn’t mean determinism/ predestination/ fatalism etc . Neither does foreknowledge.

hope this helps !!!

No one said it did. Another strawman burned down right 40 years?

 

[TibiasDad]

Praying for kings doesn't guarantee their safety. The instructions are simply wisdom - God doesn't just want us schlubs to be saved. Pray for all men big and small. And hopefully you get the side benefit of living in peace and tranquility. None of that is guaranteed. It's just good advice. It's like saying don't be a non-respecter of persons when you pray.

Speaking of it in a personal manner, my prayers for Biden and his puppet master tend to be at least partly imprecatory prayers. Yeah, I pray for their salvation but barring a soon come to Jesus experience, I hope they meet their doom as quickly, because they are evil. Probably not how God wants me to pray but it's the best I can do. But part of me also knows they wouldn't be in power except God made it so.

Just because I believe in election doesn't mean I don't pray for people if God hasn't given me a guarantee they're elect and they'll be saved.

You’re avoiding the question, RT! In your theology, God only desires the salvation of those he has elected, thus, their salvation is certain.

But all kings nor all men are saved. This can only mean that God’s desire for all men to be saved is not an absolute necessity that they will be saved. That can only be explained by man having independent authority over his choices.

Doug

 

[civic]

You’re avoiding the question, RT! In your theology, God only desires the salvation of those he has elected, thus, their salvation is certain.

But all kings nor all men are saved. This can only mean that God’s desire for all men to be saved is not an absolute necessity that they will be saved. That can only be explained by man having independent authority over his choices.

Doug

Amen Doug !

 

[TomL]

Who said it had to be redemptive in nature or even that they couldn't be?

You compared them to the crucifixion which was redemptive

But are you affirming God is the cause of all your sin, but it all had a redemptive purpose?

 

[civic]

You compared them to the crucifixion which was redemptive

But are you affirming God is the cause of all your sin, but it all had a redemptive purpose?

A distinction with a huge difference. Just another calvinist strawman.

 

[TomL]

A distinction with a huge difference. Just another calvinist strawman.

I do not believe any could truly hold to the position suggested by his comments

 

[civic]

I do not believe any could truly hold to the position suggested by his comments

false doctrines are deceiving and those who believe them do not even realize they are being deceived.

 

[Presby02]

You compared them to the crucifixion which was redemptive

But are you affirming God is the cause of all your sin, but it all had a redemptive purpose?

So. So I excluded all others by doing so. Poor reasoning.

Nope, never said that and God has many purposes besides redemptive.

 

[TomL]

So. So I excluded all others by doing so. Poor reasoning.

Nope, never said that and God has many purposes besides redemptive.

Well you certainly are not justifying your belief God is the cause of all your sin

 

[Presby02]

Well you certainly are not justifying your belief God is the cause of all your sin

God is ultimately the cause of all that exists.

 

[TomL]

God is ultimately the cause of all that exists.

So according to your doctrine God is the ultimate cause of all your sin

There is not a single sin you or anyone committed that did not have its cause in God

 

[The Rogue Tomato]

So according to your doctrine God is the ultimate cause of all your sin

There is not a single sin you or anyone committed that did not have its cause in God

If God didn't create Adam and Eve, would you and your sin exist?

 

[praise_yeshua]

If God didn't create Adam and Eve, would you and your sin exist?

Sin doesn't scare God. Do you believe God is afraid of sin?

It really is silly the things that come from believe lies.......

God served MANKIND.... Christ DIED FOR MANKIND.....

God didn't SERVE SIN.

Which what Calvinism teaches. That God SERVED SIN in the Atonement.

 

[TedT]

God is ultimately the cause of all that exists.

So according to your doctrine God is the ultimate cause of all your sin

There is not a single sin you or anyone committed that did not have its cause in God

Yes but only in the fact HE created us with a free will able to choose for HIM or against HIM as our GOD and our only saviour from any sin.

HE did not create any sinful person by any means, even Adam, nor the sin HE allows us to do.

 

[The Rogue Tomato]

Yes but only in the fact HE created us with a free will able to choose for HIM or against HIM as our GOD and our only saviour from any sin.

HE did not create any sinful person by any means, even Adam, nor the sin HE allows us to do.

So God created an inferior product because it had the ability to sin against Him. Did Adam also have the inclination to sin?

 

[civic]

So God created an inferior product because it had the ability to sin against Him. Did Adam also have the inclination to sin?

Love and freedom they go hand in hand together .

 

[TomL]

Yes but only in the fact HE created us with a free will able to choose for HIM or against HIM as our GOD and our only saviour from any sin.

HE did not create any sinful person by any means, even Adam, nor the sin HE allows us to do.

That was of course according to his doctrine not mine

 

[Presby02]

Yes but only in the fact HE created us with a free will able to choose for HIM or against HIM as our GOD and our only saviour from any sin.

HE did not create any sinful person by any means, even Adam, nor the sin HE allows us to do.

Was sin purposely allowed to enter creation? Was it part of God's creative purposes?

 

[TomL]

Was sin purposely allowed to enter creation? Was it part of God's creative purposes?

Are you a supralapsarian?

 

[Presby02]

Are you a supralapsarian?

I have not decided. I go back and forth