Pauls use of Predestination

[The Rogue Tomato]

Once again you exposed your poor understanding of Greek. ἀνθρώπους translates to men. That's why Anthropology is the History of Man (all men) and not just the History of the Elect as you would have it. Stop embarrassing yourself with your dirt poor knowledge of Greek.

(1 Tim 2:3) For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior,
(1 Tim 2:4) who will have all men (ἀνθρώπους) to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.

I'm beginning to think you're a @civic sock puppet. You both use the same tactics. "You're too ignorant to understand!" It has nothing to do with the Greek. The context tells you that he's referring to all men without distinction, not all men without exception. Let me borrow your tactic: If you weren't so stupid you'd know that. Get an education!

 

[praise_yeshua]

I'm beginning to think you're a @civic sock puppet. You both use the same tactics. "You're too ignorant to understand!" It has nothing to do with the Greek. The context tells you that he's referring to all men without distinction, not all men without exception. Let me borrow your tactic: If you weren't so stupid you'd know that. Get an education!

You've done nothing but attack people for taking LSD for months. I mean seriously... you have no place to complain about anything relative to tactics.

 

[TibiasDad]

I'm beginning to think you're a @civic sock puppet. You both use the same tactics. "You're too ignorant to understand!" It has nothing to do with the Greek. The context tells you that he's referring to all men without distinction, not all men without exception. Let me borrow your tactic: If you weren't so stupid you'd know that. Get an education!

Care to argue your point? Or are we to assume that your opinion is impeccable?

Doug

 

[civic]

I'm beginning to think you're a @civic sock puppet. You both use the same tactics. "You're too ignorant to understand!" It has nothing to do with the Greek. The context tells you that he's referring to all men without distinction, not all men without exception. Let me borrow your tactic: If you weren't so stupid you'd know that. Get an education!

We are both biblical lol

 

[synergy]

I'm beginning to think you're a @civic sock puppet. You both use the same tactics. "You're too ignorant to understand!" It has nothing to do with the Greek.

The NT has nothing to do with Greek?!? It was written in Greek, for your information. Your words are typical of calvinists who are known to consistently demonstrate dirt poor language and logic skills.

The context tells you that he's referring to all men without distinction, not all men without exception. Let me borrow your tactic: If you weren't so stupid you'd know that. Get an education!

Just because the words "without distinction" are included in your imaginary Elect Standard Version Bible that does not mean that they are included in all other Bible versions. Stop imposing your myths and illusions on us.

 

[The Rogue Tomato]

The NT has nothing to do with Greek?!? It was written in Greek, for your information. Your words are typical of calvinists who are known to consistently demonstrate dirt poor language and logic skills.

Just because the words "without distinction" are included in your imaginary Elect Standard Version Bible that does not mean that they are included in all other Bible versions. Stop imposing your myths and illusions on us.

The Greek has NOTHING to do with it. The word is anthropous (ἀνθρώπους) and just means man. It doesn't mean all men without exception, and it doesn't mean all men without distinction. You need to see the context to determine which. It happens to be used as all men without distinction because of the context. And the context is:

2 First of all, then, I urge that entreaties and prayers, petitions and thanksgivings, be made on behalf of all men, 2 for kings and all who are in authority, so that we may lead a tranquil and quiet life in all godliness and dignity. 3 This is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior, 4 who desires all men [like kings and those in authority, not just plain folks] to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.

He's specifically saying don't just pray for the run of the mill folks like us, but also pray for kings and those in authority. This is good and acceptable to God because God also wants them to be saved, too, not just you plain folks. That's ALL WITHOUT DISTINCTION.

If you weren't so focused on thinking God wants all men without exception to be saved (your incompetent god wants that but is incapable of making it so), you'd understand what this passage is saying. Don't just learn a Greek word and get all high and mighty because the NT is in Greek. That's massive ignorance. Learn Greek and get an education in exegesis.

 

[synergy]

The Greek has NOTHING to do with it.

The NT was written in Greek so Greek has everything to do with it. If not Greek then what Swahili?

The word is anthropous (ἀνθρώπους) and just means man. It doesn't mean all men without exception, and it doesn't mean all men without distinction.

I'm glad you agree that ἀνθρώπους "just means man". You proved my point. Excellent. You can now toss out your imaginary Elect Standard Version Bible out the proverbial window.

You need to see the context to determine which. It happens to be used as all men without distinction because of the context. And the context is:

2 First of all, then, I urge that entreaties and prayers, petitions and thanksgivings, be made on behalf of all men, 2 for kings and all who are in authority, so that we may lead a tranquil and quiet life in all godliness and dignity. 3 This is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior, 4 who desires all men [like kings and those in authority, not just plain folks] to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.

He's specifically saying don't just pray for the run of the mill folks like us, but also pray for kings and those in authority. This is good and acceptable to God because God also wants them to be saved, too, not just you plain folks. That's ALL WITHOUT DISTINCTION.

If you weren't so focused on thinking God wants all men without exception to be saved (your incompetent god wants that but is incapable of making it so), you'd understand what this passage is saying. Don't just learn a Greek word and get all high and mighty because the NT is in Greek. That's massive ignorance. Learn Greek and get an education in exegesis.

You still haven't proved that ἀνθρώπους = elect. It's back to the drawing board for you.

 

[The Rogue Tomato]

The NT was written in Greek so Greek has everything to do with it. If not Greek then what Swahili?

I'm glad you agree that ἀνθρώπους "just means man". You proved my point. Excellent. You can now toss out your imaginary Elect Standard Version Bible out the proverbial window.

You still haven't proved that ἀνθρώπους = elect. It's back to the drawing board for you.

No, you're unreachable. Believe whatever you want to believe. I shake the dust off my sandals.

 

[synergy]

No, you're unreachable. Believe whatever you want to believe. I shake the dust off my sandals.

Only logic and correct usage of language reach me. Since Calvinists have neither then of course you would deem me "unreachable".

 

[TibiasDad]

2 First of all, then, I urge that entreaties and prayers, petitions and thanksgivings, be made on behalf of all men, 2 for kings and all who are in authority, so that we may lead a tranquil and quiet life in all godliness and dignity. 3 This is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior, 4 who desires all men [like kings and those in authority, not just plain folks] to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.

Then why aren’t “all kings” saved? Who claims that only “just plain folk” are the ones God desires to be saved? Your distinction has no scriptural or logical basis. There is no need for “all men” if only kings and authority figures are what he has in mind as the focal point of our prayers.

With holes like this in your logical boat, there better be life vests handy, because your ship is sinking fast.


Doug

 

[Rockson]

With holes like this in your logical boat, there better be life vests handy, because your ship is sinking fast.

A Calvinist wouldn't put one on anyway. They'd be afraid if they did it would be they doing something to save themselves.

 

[The Rogue Tomato]

Then why aren’t “all kings” saved? Who claims that only “just plain folk” are the ones God desires to be saved? Your distinction has no scriptural or logical basis. There is no need for “all men” if only kings and authority figures are what he has in mind as the focal point of our prayers.

With holes like this in your logical boat, there better be life vests handy, because your ship is sinking fast.


Doug

Praying for kings doesn't guarantee their safety. The instructions are simply wisdom - God doesn't just want us schlubs to be saved. Pray for all men big and small. And hopefully you get the side benefit of living in peace and tranquility. None of that is guaranteed. It's just good advice. It's like saying don't be a non-respecter of persons when you pray.

Speaking of it in a personal manner, my prayers for Biden and his puppet master tend to be at least partly imprecatory prayers. Yeah, I pray for their salvation but barring a soon come to Jesus experience, I hope they meet their doom as quickly, because they are evil. Probably not how God wants me to pray but it's the best I can do. But part of me also knows they wouldn't be in power except God made it so.

Just because I believe in election doesn't mean I don't pray for people if God hasn't given me a guarantee they're elect and they'll be saved.

 

[Presby02]

nope believers are the ones who are predestined, not unbelievers. Read the verses. Those who are believers are destined to be adopted. Nothing about predestining anyone to salvation. Those already in Christ are the ones predestined to adoption. Romans 8 and Ephesians 1 spell that out.

Except they were predestined before they were ever born. Which means they were predestined before believing. Or did you choose to be predestined also?

 

[Presby02]

God desires all be saved. He will however save only those that believe. That is his plan, his will not man's and man is not overriding God's plan or will

Instead of erecting strawmen deal in fact

So He desires something where He purposely created a world where that will never occur? He did not have to put the tree or the serpent in the garden did he?

 

[TomL]

So He desires something where He purposely created a world where that will never occur? He did not have to put the tree or the serpent in the garden did he?

Does God desire you sin?

God had a purpose in creating free creatures.

 

[Presby02]

Does God desire you sin?

God had a purpose in creating free creatures.

When it serves His purposes, certainly.

This does not address my points in any way.

If He desired to save all then why put the tree and the serpent in the garden knowing full well what was going to happen.

 

[TomL]

When it serves His purposes, certainly.

This does not address my points in any way.

If He desired to save all then why put the tree and the serpent in the garden knowing full well what was going to happen.

So God desires all your sin ?

 

[Presby02]

So God desires all your sin ?

When it serves His purposes, certainly. Everything serves His purposes.

 

[Rockson]

If He desired to save all then why put the tree and the serpent in the garden knowing full well what was going to happen.

He would not be LOVE if he did not allow an expression where they wouldn't serve him.

 

[Presby02]

He would not be LOVE if he did not allow an expression where they wouldn't serve him.

Who says?