I agreed with your definition. Now on to my question. You have been bobbing and weaving long enough.
Pauls use of Predestination
- Thread starter civic
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praise_yeshua
Well-known member
How do you know it wasn't by chance?
We know Tiberius wasn't listed. He was the EMPEROR of Rome.
Act 4:26 The kings of the earth stood up,
praise_yeshua
Well-known member
Never expect a Calvinist to accept a valid answer to anything they ask. Never.
I gave you an answer and explained your tactics.
Do the Scriptures list everything that happened? You're assuming that "everything" was ordained by God when we know that chance happens to all men.
The onus is upon YOU to establish that everything happened because of God. Tiberius had other things to do......
It's your claim it was by chance. Burden of proof lies with you.
So he wasn't listed. Neither were you. LOL...Do you need a exhaustive list?
It has to list everything that happened?
That's easy. He planned, determined and brought it about by His hand. The rest I guess He just got lucky?
praise_yeshua
Well-known member
The record is in the thread. I never used the word "chance" until you changed the requirement from all to "chance". The burden is upon you.
You're the one extending the Scriptures beyond what they actually say. Not me.
For example,
Act 4:26 The kings of the earth stood up....
does NOT include Tiberius.
civic
Well-known member
Yes the games continue as expected
praise_yeshua
Well-known member
Unlike yourself. God didn't have to plan it all. God is very powerful. He is capable of overcoming the evil of men with His own goodness.
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praise_yeshua
Well-known member
It really is childish....
civic
Well-known member
Amen
Right. So some of the plan was left to chance and the rest is luck. Gotcha ya
It it's not all then some of it was by chance.
How do you know it did not include Tiberius?
praise_yeshua
Well-known member
See the dishonesty used by Calvinists. I never once claimed that God left the outcome of the Atonement "to chance".
Christ accomplished the Atonement alone. Christ didn't need the sinfulness of men to accomplish the Atonement.
praise_yeshua
Well-known member
That is your false claim.
Certainly a good historian (which Luke was) wouldn't include Pilate and leave out the Emperor of Rome.
You really are "something".....
LOL, how can you possibly know that? Did He have to provide a exhaustive list of participants? What a silly claim
But sin was part of what God planned and determined to occur. Actually brought about by His plan. Acts 4:27,28
praise_yeshua
Well-known member
What a silly claim that God requires the evil of men to accomplish His will.
False claims abound on your part..... I didn't say that Luke included an exhaustive list.
According to rank, it is reasonable to ascertain that no good writer would leave out the most important/highest ranking person at the event.
praise_yeshua
Well-known member
No it wasn't. That is your false claim and you certainly haven't established such. You can't.
Isn't is interesting that you claim that Luke didn't have to include an exhaustive list but you are claiming that everything that happened was determined by God.
Double minded much?
No one said anything about requiring.
Why bring up Tiberius then?
He did not take part in the event. LOL
How does anyone make a free will, uncoerced, decision? All sin comes from the desires of the person...
Berean Standard Bible
James 1:14 But each one is tempted when by his own evil desires he is lured away and enticed.
This tells us that when Satan decided to rebel against GOD, that he thought about YHWH's proclamation of deity and HIS gospel of salvation, Col 1:23, and didn't like something about it. If interpretations of other verses are true, the proclamation tweaked his pride. Since I cannot fathom that he thought he was equal to a proven deity, I suspect that he thought that YHWH was lying about being the only One True Living GOD, that HE was no better than anyone else which also meant that there was no such thing as sin, no hell, and no heavenly marriage.
He talked this up so much he actual got a rebellion going in heaven against YHWH and HIS gospel from people who also decided to accept, to believe, his interpretation of YHWH's proclamation...unwilling to accept that they were creations of a real GOD with a real purpose for HIS creation because they put their faith, their unproven hope, in the idea that HE was no better than anyone else and therefore a false god and therefore a sinner himself and as the first sinner, YHWH was the most evil sinner in the world.
This is still echoed in what pagans and Satanists say about YHWH, a common theme in the Satanic circles which I have studied.
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