Mark 16:16~"He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

[TomL]

In the case of the Holy Spirit, it is.

Sorry that is totally gratuitous.

Receiving a person is not receiving a gift

He indwells every saved person, but Cornelius was not saved yet; his sins had not yet been forgiven, as that happens during water baptism according to Col 2 and Rom 6.

Whoever believes in him receives remission of sin

Acts 10:43 (KJV 1900) — 43 To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.

Romans 3:25–26 (KJV 1900) — 25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God; 26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.

Luke 24:47 (ESV) — 47 and that repentance for the forgiveness of sins should be proclaimed in his name to all nations, beginning from Jerusalem.

Acts 5:31 (ESV) — 31 God exalted him at his right hand as Leader and Savior, to give repentance to Israel and forgiveness of sins.

There is no water in Romans 6 or Col 2

The Spirit cannot be compelled, He is received as a gift from God. But receiving Him is not always receiving His indwelling. Just because someone has "received" Him, does not necessitate his salvation.

Again gratuitous

I quoted verses equating receiving the Spirit with the indwelling

John 14:15–17 (KJV 1900) — 15 If ye love me, keep my commandments. 16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever; 17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

Why did Jesus say that the Holy Spirit will be (fut. tense) in them? Because in Old Testament times the Spirit came on some believers for special enablement, but after Pentecost He indwells every believer permanently (Rom. 8:9; 1 Cor. 12:13).11 Edwin A. Blum, “John,” in The Bible Knowledge Commentary: An Exposition of the Scriptures (ed. J. F. Walvoord and R. B. Zuck; vol. 2; Wheaton, IL: Victor Books, 1985), 2323.



John 7:38–39 (NASB 2020) — 38 The one who believes in Me, as the Scripture said, ‘From his innermost being will flow rivers of living water.’ ” 39 But this He said in reference to the Spirit, whom those who believed in Him were to receive; for the Spirit was not yet given, because Jesus was not yet glorified.

equates receiving the Spirit with the Spirit in your innermost being - that is indwelling

John explained that the “living water” (v. 38) was the coming gift of the Holy Spirit. The Spirit within a believer satisfies his need of God, and provides him with regeneration, guidance, and empowerment. In the earliest Greek manuscripts, the words, Up to that time the Spirit had not been given, are simply, “for there was not yet Spirit.” This cannot be taken in an absolute sense since the Spirit had actively worked among people in the Old Testament era. Jesus referred to the special baptizing, sealing, and indwelling work of the Spirit in the Church Age, which would start on the day of Pentecost (Acts 1:5, 8). Jesus said He would “send the Spirit” to His followers (John 15:26; 16:7). “The Spirit had not [yet] been given” to indwell believers permanently (cf. Ps. 51:11). That happened after Jesus was glorified, that is after His death, resurrection, and Ascension. 11 Edwin A. Blum, “John,” in The Bible Knowledge Commentary: An Exposition of the Scriptures (ed. J. F. Walvoord and R. B. Zuck; vol. 2; Wheaton, IL: Victor Books, 1985), 2301–302.

Notes for Verse 39

Verse 39. this spake he of the Spirit—who, by His direct personal agency, opens up this spring of living waters in the human spirit (John 3:6), and by His indwelling in the renewed soul ensures their unfailing flow.



A Commentary: Critical, Experimental, and Practical on the Old and New Testaments.

The Holy Spirit applies the benefits of salvation to those whom he indwells. The indwelling of the Spirit is both corporate and individual; Christ’s church is his temple, as are individual Christians. In regeneration, the Spirit gives new life to the believer, birthing a new creation. In sanctification, God the Spirit transforms Christians into the image and likeness of Christ by developing within them the fruits of the Spirit. The Spirit also imparts divine power to his church through spiritual gifts and supernatural endowment. This power is given for the furtherance of God’s salvific mission of grace in the world. Finally, the indwelling Spirit is a “guarantee” or “pledge” of the fullness of salvation to be experienced at the final glorification of Christian believers (Eph 1:13–14)1

1 Susanne Calhoun, “The Spirit’s Indwelling,” in Lexham Survey of Theology, ed. Mark Ward et al. (Bellingham, WA: Lexham Press, 2018).

Living water—As a true spring is ever supplied with water from the great deep, with which it has communication, so shall the soul of the genuine believer be supplied with light, life, love, and liberty, and all the other graces of the indwelling Spirit, from the indwelling Christ. The Jews frequently compare the gifts and influences of the Holy Spirit to water in general—to rain, fountains, wells, rivers, etc., etc. The Scriptures abound in this metaphor. Psalm 36:8, 9; Isaiah 44:3, 4; Joel 2:23.



Adam Clarke's Commentary.

Where have you dealt with the scriptures and the commentary?
bf

None of that has anything to do with this. Yes, the Spirit comes to indwell those who are saved. But Cornelius was not yet saved when the Spirit fell on him in the power of tongues.

More denial of scripture

Acts 11:14 (KJV 1900) — 14 Who shall tell thee words, whereby thou and all thy house shall be saved.

It was by belief in the words spoken to him he would be saved

and based upon circumstances the Jews affirmed the gentiles saved

Acts 11:18 (KJV 1900) — 18 When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life.

And the Samaritans who had been baptized into Christ had received the indwelling of the Spirit. We know this because in Acts 8:13-14 we are told that the Samaritans had "received the Word of God", and even Simon (the sorcerer) had been baptized into Christ. But they had not received miraculous power from Him until the Peter and John came and laid hands on them.

Sorry scripture does not say any such thing. You are reading your theology into the passage

Simon appeared unsaved

Acts 8:14–23 (KJV 1900) — 14 Now when the apostles which were at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent unto them Peter and John: 15 Who, when they were come down, prayed for them, that they might receive the Holy Ghost: 16 (For as yet he was fallen upon none of them: only they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.) 17 Then laid they their hands on them, and they received the Holy Ghost. 18 And when Simon saw that through laying on of the apostles’ hands the Holy Ghost was given, he offered them money, 19 Saying, Give me also this power, that on whomsoever I lay hands, he may receive the Holy Ghost. 20 But Peter said unto him, Thy money perish with thee, because thou hast thought that the gift of God may be purchased with money. 21 Thou hast neither part nor lot in this matter: for thy heart is not right in the sight of God. 22 Repent therefore of this thy wickedness, and pray God, if perhaps the thought of thine heart may be forgiven thee. 23 For I perceive that thou art in the gall of bitterness, and in the bond of iniquity.


You will note they had not received the Spirit. The Spirit was not given

If they were indwelt they would have received the Spirit

 

[360watt]

Sorry that is totally gratuitous.

Receiving a person is not receiving a gift



Whoever believes in him receives remission of sin

Acts 10:43 (KJV 1900) — 43 To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.

Romans 3:25–26 (KJV 1900) — 25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God; 26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.

Luke 24:47 (ESV) — 47 and that repentance for the forgiveness of sins should be proclaimed in his name to all nations, beginning from Jerusalem.

Acts 5:31 (ESV) — 31 God exalted him at his right hand as Leader and Savior, to give repentance to Israel and forgiveness of sins.

There is no water in Romans 6 or Col 2









Again gratuitous

I quoted verses equating receiving the Spirit with the indwelling

John 14:15–17 (KJV 1900) — 15 If ye love me, keep my commandments. 16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever; 17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

Why did Jesus say that the Holy Spirit will be (fut. tense) in them? Because in Old Testament times the Spirit came on some believers for special enablement, but after Pentecost He indwells every believer permanently (Rom. 8:9; 1 Cor. 12:13).11 Edwin A. Blum, “John,” in The Bible Knowledge Commentary: An Exposition of the Scriptures (ed. J. F. Walvoord and R. B. Zuck; vol. 2; Wheaton, IL: Victor Books, 1985), 2323.



John 7:38–39 (NASB 2020) — 38 The one who believes in Me, as the Scripture said, ‘From his innermost being will flow rivers of living water.’ ” 39 But this He said in reference to the Spirit, whom those who believed in Him were to receive; for the Spirit was not yet given, because Jesus was not yet glorified.

equates receiving the Spirit with the Spirit in your innermost being - that is indwelling

John explained that the “living water” (v. 38) was the coming gift of the Holy Spirit. The Spirit within a believer satisfies his need of God, and provides him with regeneration, guidance, and empowerment. In the earliest Greek manuscripts, the words, Up to that time the Spirit had not been given, are simply, “for there was not yet Spirit.” This cannot be taken in an absolute sense since the Spirit had actively worked among people in the Old Testament era. Jesus referred to the special baptizing, sealing, and indwelling work of the Spirit in the Church Age, which would start on the day of Pentecost (Acts 1:5, 8). Jesus said He would “send the Spirit” to His followers (John 15:26; 16:7). “The Spirit had not [yet] been given” to indwell believers permanently (cf. Ps. 51:11). That happened after Jesus was glorified, that is after His death, resurrection, and Ascension. 11 Edwin A. Blum, “John,” in The Bible Knowledge Commentary: An Exposition of the Scriptures (ed. J. F. Walvoord and R. B. Zuck; vol. 2; Wheaton, IL: Victor Books, 1985), 2301–302.

Notes for Verse 39

Verse 39. this spake he of the Spirit—who, by His direct personal agency, opens up this spring of living waters in the human spirit (John 3:6), and by His indwelling in the renewed soul ensures their unfailing flow.



A Commentary: Critical, Experimental, and Practical on the Old and New Testaments.

The Holy Spirit applies the benefits of salvation to those whom he indwells. The indwelling of the Spirit is both corporate and individual; Christ’s church is his temple, as are individual Christians. In regeneration, the Spirit gives new life to the believer, birthing a new creation. In sanctification, God the Spirit transforms Christians into the image and likeness of Christ by developing within them the fruits of the Spirit. The Spirit also imparts divine power to his church through spiritual gifts and supernatural endowment. This power is given for the furtherance of God’s salvific mission of grace in the world. Finally, the indwelling Spirit is a “guarantee” or “pledge” of the fullness of salvation to be experienced at the final glorification of Christian believers (Eph 1:13–14)1

1 Susanne Calhoun, “The Spirit’s Indwelling,” in Lexham Survey of Theology, ed. Mark Ward et al. (Bellingham, WA: Lexham Press, 2018).

Living water—As a true spring is ever supplied with water from the great deep, with which it has communication, so shall the soul of the genuine believer be supplied with light, life, love, and liberty, and all the other graces of the indwelling Spirit, from the indwelling Christ. The Jews frequently compare the gifts and influences of the Holy Spirit to water in general—to rain, fountains, wells, rivers, etc., etc. The Scriptures abound in this metaphor. Psalm 36:8, 9; Isaiah 44:3, 4; Joel 2:23.



Adam Clarke's Commentary.

Where have you dealt with the scriptures and the commentary?
bf


More denial of scripture

Acts 11:14 (KJV 1900) — 14 Who shall tell thee words, whereby thou and all thy house shall be saved.

It was by belief in the words spoken to him he would be saved

and based upon circumstances the Jews affirmed the gentiles saved

Acts 11:18 (KJV 1900) — 18 When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life.








Sorry scripture does not say any such thing. You are reading your theology into the passage

Simon appeared unsaved

Acts 8:14–23 (KJV 1900) — 14 Now when the apostles which were at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent unto them Peter and John: 15 Who, when they were come down, prayed for them, that they might receive the Holy Ghost: 16 (For as yet he was fallen upon none of them: only they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.) 17 Then laid they their hands on them, and they received the Holy Ghost. 18 And when Simon saw that through laying on of the apostles’ hands the Holy Ghost was given, he offered them money, 19 Saying, Give me also this power, that on whomsoever I lay hands, he may receive the Holy Ghost. 20 But Peter said unto him, Thy money perish with thee, because thou hast thought that the gift of God may be purchased with money. 21 Thou hast neither part nor lot in this matter: for thy heart is not right in the sight of God. 22 Repent therefore of this thy wickedness, and pray God, if perhaps the thought of thine heart may be forgiven thee. 23 For I perceive that thou art in the gall of bitterness, and in the bond of iniquity.


You will note they had not received the Spirit. The Spirit was not given

If they were indwelt they would have received the Spirit

Hold up! There is individually receiving the Spirit salvation vs a group receiving the Spirit

 

[Truther]

I already gave my response.

Your weak and pitiful position is highly dependent upon words that are not even part of the Bible.

Again, says who? Certain scholars that you know?

 

[Truther]

Generally so but what do you do with a deathbed confession of Christ? Will you say he is not saved because he was not water baptized?

I will say that salvation in the New Testament church, right now, is by obeying Acts 2:38. Everyone else has to wait until the end of the world to be judged According to their works. I am sure that Grace will be there too. I am only wanting to buy the insurance policy of Acts 2:38 I’m not much of a gambler.
I just cannot trust people that tell me don’t worry about it. I worry about it. I tell others to worry about it. It’s a safe place.

 

[TomL]

I will say that salvation in the New Testament church, right now, is by obeying Acts 2:38. Everyone else has to wait until the end of the world to be judged According to their works. I am sure that Grace will be there too. I am only wanting to buy the insurance policy of Acts 2:38 I’m not much of a gambler.
I just cannot trust people that tell me don’t worry about it. I worry about it. I tell others to worry about it. It’s a safe place.

Salvation is by faith. But one should be water baptised

 

[TomL]

Hold up! There is individually receiving the Spirit salvation vs a group receiving the Spirit

It is the personal indwelling that marks one in Christ

Romans 8:9 (KJV 1900) — 9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

Ephesians 1:13 (KJV 1900) — 13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

 

[360watt]

It is the personal indwelling that marks one in Christ

Romans 8:9 (KJV 1900) — 9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

Ephesians 1:13 (KJV 1900) — 13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

Yes, I agree. But to get what kind of work the Holy Spirit is doing, you gotta look at whether it is a group receiving or an individual. A group receiving.. and it's not usually about salvation.

 

[TomL]

Yes, I agree. But to get what kind of work the Holy Spirit is doing, you gotta look at whether it is a group receiving or an individual. A group receiving.. and it's not usually about salvation.

Yes, I agree. But to get what kind of work the Holy Spirit is doing, you gotta look at whether it is a group receiving or an individual. A group receiving.. and it's not usually about salvation.

Initial reception of the Holy Spirit is always saving

 

[Doug Brents]

You have zero passages from the New Covenant that refute my assertion. Perhaps one day you can stop playing make believe.

Tongues is listed as a gift for those in the church.
Cornelius had the gift of tongues before he was water baptized.
Therefore, Cornelius was in the church before he was water baptized.

It does not take a passage from the NT that refutes your claim that tongues were only for the Church to prove that Cornelius was not saved yet.
We are told that the indwelling of the Spirit, and the removal of our sins by Him, occur during water baptism (Col 2:11-14, Rom 6:1-7, 1 Pet 3:21). As such, Cornelius having not yet received water baptism could not yet have received the removal of his sins, nor the indwelling of the Spirit. As is indicated by Peter's recounting of these events to the other Apostles in Acts 11, the purpose of the Holy Spirit falling on Cornelius before he was saved was as a sign to the Jews that the Gentiles were to be accepted into the Church as full and equal members from that time forward (Acts 11:16-17).

 

[Doug Brents]

Whoever believes in him receives remission of sin

Acts 10:43 (KJV 1900) — 43 To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.

Romans 3:25–26 (KJV 1900) — 25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God; 26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.

Luke 24:47 (ESV) — 47 and that repentance for the forgiveness of sins should be proclaimed in his name to all nations, beginning from Jerusalem.

Acts 5:31 (ESV) — 31 God exalted him at his right hand as Leader and Savior, to give repentance to Israel and forgiveness of sins.

There is no water in Romans 6 or Col 2

You keep coming back to this same error. Belief is not intellectual assent. Belief is faith, and faith is not passive, inactive, or "mental only". If there is no action, then there is no belief, no faith, no salvation. Removal of sin occurs during water baptism.

Again gratuitous

I quoted verses equating receiving the Spirit with the indwelling

John 14:15–17 (KJV 1900) — 15 If ye love me, keep my commandments. 16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever; 17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

Why did Jesus say that the Holy Spirit will be (fut. tense) in them? Because in Old Testament times the Spirit came on some believers for special enablement, but after Pentecost He indwells every believer permanently (Rom. 8:9; 1 Cor. 12:13).11 Edwin A. Blum, “John,” in The Bible Knowledge Commentary: An Exposition of the Scriptures (ed. J. F. Walvoord and R. B. Zuck; vol. 2; Wheaton, IL: Victor Books, 1985), 2323.



John 7:38–39 (NASB 2020) — 38 The one who believes in Me, as the Scripture said, ‘From his innermost being will flow rivers of living water.’ ” 39 But this He said in reference to the Spirit, whom those who believed in Him were to receive; for the Spirit was not yet given, because Jesus was not yet glorified.

equates receiving the Spirit with the Spirit in your innermost being - that is indwelling

John explained that the “living water” (v. 38) was the coming gift of the Holy Spirit. The Spirit within a believer satisfies his need of God, and provides him with regeneration, guidance, and empowerment. In the earliest Greek manuscripts, the words, Up to that time the Spirit had not been given, are simply, “for there was not yet Spirit.” This cannot be taken in an absolute sense since the Spirit had actively worked among people in the Old Testament era. Jesus referred to the special baptizing, sealing, and indwelling work of the Spirit in the Church Age, which would start on the day of Pentecost (Acts 1:5, 8). Jesus said He would “send the Spirit” to His followers (John 15:26; 16:7). “The Spirit had not [yet] been given” to indwell believers permanently (cf. Ps. 51:11). That happened after Jesus was glorified, that is after His death, resurrection, and Ascension. 11 Edwin A. Blum, “John,” in The Bible Knowledge Commentary: An Exposition of the Scriptures (ed. J. F. Walvoord and R. B. Zuck; vol. 2; Wheaton, IL: Victor Books, 1985), 2301–302.

Notes for Verse 39

Verse 39. this spake he of the Spirit—who, by His direct personal agency, opens up this spring of living waters in the human spirit (John 3:6), and by His indwelling in the renewed soul ensures their unfailing flow.



A Commentary: Critical, Experimental, and Practical on the Old and New Testaments.

The Holy Spirit applies the benefits of salvation to those whom he indwells. The indwelling of the Spirit is both corporate and individual; Christ’s church is his temple, as are individual Christians. In regeneration, the Spirit gives new life to the believer, birthing a new creation. In sanctification, God the Spirit transforms Christians into the image and likeness of Christ by developing within them the fruits of the Spirit. The Spirit also imparts divine power to his church through spiritual gifts and supernatural endowment. This power is given for the furtherance of God’s salvific mission of grace in the world. Finally, the indwelling Spirit is a “guarantee” or “pledge” of the fullness of salvation to be experienced at the final glorification of Christian believers (Eph 1:13–14)1

1 Susanne Calhoun, “The Spirit’s Indwelling,” in Lexham Survey of Theology, ed. Mark Ward et al. (Bellingham, WA: Lexham Press, 2018).

Living water—As a true spring is ever supplied with water from the great deep, with which it has communication, so shall the soul of the genuine believer be supplied with light, life, love, and liberty, and all the other graces of the indwelling Spirit, from the indwelling Christ. The Jews frequently compare the gifts and influences of the Holy Spirit to water in general—to rain, fountains, wells, rivers, etc., etc. The Scriptures abound in this metaphor. Psalm 36:8, 9; Isaiah 44:3, 4; Joel 2:23.

And again there is receiving of the Spirit's indwelling and receiving of the Spirit in power, and they are not always synonymous.

Where have you dealt with the scriptures and the commentary?
bf

It is not necessary to "deal with" some other man's commentary. I will deal with the Scriptures, and I have done so.

More denial of scripture

Acts 11:14 (KJV 1900) — 14 Who shall tell thee words, whereby thou and all thy house shall be saved.

It was by belief in the words spoken to him he would be saved

and based upon circumstances the Jews affirmed the gentiles saved

Acts 11:18 (KJV 1900) — 18 When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life.

The Gentiles were saved, by believing and obeying the words spoken by Peter, and He preached the Gospel to them and then ordered them baptized into Christ (in water) when he was convinced by the Spirit that the Gentiles were to be accepted into the Church.

Sorry scripture does not say any such thing. You are reading your theology into the passage

Simon appeared unsaved

Acts 8:14–23 (KJV 1900) — 14 Now when the apostles which were at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent unto them Peter and John: 15 Who, when they were come down, prayed for them, that they might receive the Holy Ghost: 16 (For as yet he was fallen upon none of them: only they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.) 17 Then laid they their hands on them, and they received the Holy Ghost. 18 And when Simon saw that through laying on of the apostles’ hands the Holy Ghost was given, he offered them money, 19 Saying, Give me also this power, that on whomsoever I lay hands, he may receive the Holy Ghost. 20 But Peter said unto him, Thy money perish with thee, because thou hast thought that the gift of God may be purchased with money. 21 Thou hast neither part nor lot in this matter: for thy heart is not right in the sight of God. 22 Repent therefore of this thy wickedness, and pray God, if perhaps the thought of thine heart may be forgiven thee. 23 For I perceive that thou art in the gall of bitterness, and in the bond of iniquity.


You will note they had not received the Spirit. The Spirit was not given

If they were indwelt they would have received the Spirit

Simon had received the Holy Spirit's indwelling when he was baptized into Christ, but had not received miraculous power. All who are in Christ have the Holy Spirit's indwelling, and Philip was able to baptized converts into Christ and through baptism the indwelling of the Spirit was received by them. But he was not able to pass on the miraculous power of the Spirit. Simon tried to buy the ability to pass on the Holy Spirit's miraculous power, but was rebuked. He was still weak in the Faith, and was still thinking along the lines of his old profession, but I believe it is clear that he was wanting to be righteous, because of his asking Peter to pray from him.

 

[Fred]

It does not take a passage from the NT that refutes your claim that tongues were only for the Church to prove that Cornelius was not saved yet.
We are told that the indwelling of the Spirit, and the removal of our sins by Him, occur during water baptism (Col 2:11-14, Rom 6:1-7, 1 Pet 3:21). As such, Cornelius having not yet received water baptism could not yet have received the removal of his sins, nor the indwelling of the Spirit. As is indicated by Peter's recounting of these events to the other Apostles in Acts 11, the purpose of the Holy Spirit falling on Cornelius before he was saved was as a sign to the Jews that the Gentiles were to be accepted into the Church as full and equal members from that time forward (Acts 11:16-17).

Total dodge of 1 Corinthians 12:28.
Continue on in your heresy.

 

[Truther]

Salvation is by faith. But one should be water baptised

Since you don’t need baptism but only faith, you cannot disqualify them.

Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well. The devils also believe — and tremble.

 

[Doug Brents]

Total dodge of 1 Corinthians 12:28.
Continue on in your heresy.

her·e·sy
/ˈherəsē/
noun
Belief or opinion contrary to orthodox religious (especially Christian) doctrine.
Heresy is not being wrong, it is not agreeing with the prevailing belief of the time. So Jesus was a heretic in His time.

I did not "dodge" 1 Cor 12:28 at all. That verse lists a hierarchy of gifts in the Church. It does not say that those gifts ONLY exist within the Church.

 

[TomL]

Since you don’t need baptism but only faith, you cannot disqualify them.

Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well. The devils also believe — and tremble.

That is mental assent not faith

One is not the other

 

[TomL]

You keep coming back to this same error. Belief is not intellectual assent. Belief is faith, and faith is not passive, inactive, or "mental only". If there is no action, then there is no belief, no faith, no salvation. Removal of sin occurs during water baptism.

Quote me

Otherwise you are speaking out of your imagination

And again there is receiving of the Spirit's indwelling and receiving of the Spirit in power, and they are not always synonymous.

Sorry that is just a claim you have not supported while ignoring scripture

John 14:15–17 (KJV 1900) — 15 If ye love me, keep my commandments. 16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever; 17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

John 7:38–39 (NASB 2020) — 38 The one who believes in Me, as the Scripture said, ‘From his innermost being will flow rivers of living water.’ ” 39 But this He said in reference to the Spirit, whom those who believed in Him were to receive; for the Spirit was not yet given, because Jesus was not yet glorified.

Two verses clearly identify receiving the spirit with the indwelling

You cannot alternately post a verse where it is clear that one receiving only a spiritual gift is stated to receive the Spirit

Further the object of reception in the phrase is the Spirit not a guift of the Spirit

words have meaning and you cannot alter them to fit your theology

It is not necessary to "deal with" some other man's commentary. I will deal with the Scriptures, and I have done so.

No you have not

see above

 

[Doug Brents]

Quote me

Otherwise you are speaking out of your imagination

Belief ONLY does not save. Faith ONLY does not save.

Sorry that is just a claim you have not supported while ignoring scripture

John 14:15–17 (KJV 1900) — 15 If ye love me, keep my commandments. 16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever; 17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

John 7:38–39 (NASB 2020) — 38 The one who believes in Me, as the Scripture said, ‘From his innermost being will flow rivers of living water.’ ” 39 But this He said in reference to the Spirit, whom those who believed in Him were to receive; for the Spirit was not yet given, because Jesus was not yet glorified.

Two verses clearly identify receiving the spirit with the indwelling

Those two passages both mention "receiving the spirit" and His indwelling the hearts of those who are in Christ. But they do not make His indwelling exclusive to those who exhibit His miraculous signs, nor does it indicate that those who exhibit miraculous signs have His indwelling. Nor does it necessitate that those who "receive" Him have received His indwelling. Moses "received" the Spirit, but he did not have the indwelling of the Spirit. David "received" the Spirit, but he did not have the indwelling of the Spirit. John the Baptist "received" the Spirit, but he did not have the indwelling of the Spirit.

You cannot alternately post a verse where it is clear that one receiving only a spiritual gift is stated to receive the Spirit

Further the object of reception in the phrase is the Spirit not a guift of the Spirit

words have meaning and you cannot alter them to fit your theology

For a person to receive a gift of the Spirit, the Spirit must be with them; not necessarily in them, but with them. Thus, they have "received the Spirit". But they do not have Him indwelling their heart. This is true of John the Baptist, the Apostles before Jesus' resurrection, and many others. They had "received the Spirit", but they were not yet indwelt by Him. You are equating the reception of the Spirit with salvation, and it is not always so.

 

[Fred]

So Jesus was a heretic in His time.

Jesus is never a heretic.

I did not "dodge" 1 Cor 12:28 at all. That verse lists a hierarchy of gifts in the Church.

Correct - "in the church"

It does not say that those gifts ONLY exist within the Church.

For which you have a grand total of zero passages from the New Covenant that back up your ridiculous claim.

 

[Fred]

Cornelius having not yet received water baptism could not yet have received the removal of his sins, nor the indwelling of the Spirit.

They were already sealed with the Holy Spriit before their water baptism.

https://berean-apologetics.community.forum/threads/all-believers-are-baptized-into-the-body-of-christ.507/page-3#post-12232

 

[Truther]

That is mental assent not faith

One is not the other

So you’re saying the devils do not believe after all?

 

[360watt]

The devils did not entrust their salvation with Jesus. BIG difference. Obviously there is a big difference. A lost person believing and a devil believing is very very different.

Devils know Jesus exists .. know Him well. So that's believing He is real.

A lost person believing is acknowledging they are a sinner under Jesus' conviction on their soul, then asking for forgiveness of sin..believing Jesus is God, that He died and rose again, that He can give eternal life.

Devils Obviously do not do that! It's a dumb comparison.