He that believes and is not water baptised is saved

360watt said:
Well..the word trinity isn't in the bible, but Jesus is fully God in scripture, just as the Father and Spirit are. And scripture has their power interchangeable as one being, God.

Just look at the power demonstrated in Revelation, aside from Jesus' own power.
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There's no teaching on the trinity anywhere in the Bible. No whole paragraph or chapter teaching that we should believe or confess that Jesus is God. It seems it would have been clearly stated in the Bible and in the earliest Christian creeds if the doctrine of the Trinity was genuine and central to Christian belief and especially if belief in it was necessary for salvation as many Trinitarians teach. God gave the Scriptures to the Jewish people, and the Jewish religion and worship that comes from that revelation does not contain any reference to or teachings about a triune God. Surely the Jewish people were qualified to read and understand it, but they never saw the doctrine of the Trinity.
 
Titus said:
You have more in common with the atheist professor Bart Ehrman than you do with christian doctrine.
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The trinity is not a Christian doctrine. A study of the history of the Christian Church shows a definite development in the doctrine of the Trinity over the centuries. For example, the early form of the Apostles Creed (believed to date back to shortly after the time of the apostles themselves) does not mention the Trinity or the dual nature of Christ. The Nicene Creed that was written in 325 AD and modified later added the material about Jesus Christ being “eternally begotten” and the "true God” and about the Holy Spirit being “Lord.” But it was the Athanasian Creed that was most likely composed in the latter part of the 4th century or possibly even as early as the 5th century that was the first creed to explicitly state the doctrine of the Trinity.
 
Peterlag said:
The trinity is not a Christian doctrine. A study of the history of the Christian Church shows a definite development in the doctrine of the Trinity over the centuries. For example, the early form of the Apostles Creed (believed to date back to shortly after the time of the apostles themselves) does not mention the Trinity or the dual nature of Christ. The Nicene Creed that was written in 325 AD and modified later added the material about Jesus Christ being “eternally begotten” and the "true God” and about the Holy Spirit being “Lord.” But it was the Athanasian Creed that was most likely composed in the latter part of the 4th century or possibly even as early as the 5th century that was the first creed to explicitly state the doctrine of the Trinity.
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Blind guides leading the blind.
 
Peterlag said:
Corresponding to what? That both were saved.
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That both were saved? Both what/who? Never mind, it doesn't matter.

"For Christ also suffered for sins once for all time, the just for the unjust, so that He might bring us to God, having been put to death in the flesh, but made alive in the spirit; 19 in which He also went and made proclamation to the spirits in prison, 20 who once were disobedient when the patience of God kept waiting in the days of Noah, during the construction of the ark, in which a few, that is, eight persons, were brought safely through the water. 21 Corresponding to that, baptism now saves you—not the removal of dirt from the flesh, but an appeal to God for a good conscience—through the resurrection of Jesus Christ, 22 who is at the right hand of God, having gone into heaven, after angels and authorities and powers had been subjected to Him." 1 Pet 3:18-22 NASB
Borrowing from:
Pulpit Commentary
Verse 21. - The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us. The reading of the Textus Receptus ω΅ι, represented by "whereunto," is without authority; all the uncial manuscripts have ο}, "which," in the nominative case. The oldest manuscripts also read "you" instead of "us." The antecedent of the relative must be the word immediately preceding, ὕδατος, water; the word "baptism" is added in apposition, to define more clearly the apostle's meaning; the water which saves is the water of baptism. Thus the literal translation will be, "Which (as) antitype is saving you also, (namely) baptism;" that is, the water which is saving you is the antitype of the water of the Flood. That water was made the means of saving a few; it bore up the ark in which they were. It saved them, perhaps, from the malice of the ungodly; it saved them from that corruption which was almost universal; it was the means of saving the race of men as by a new birth through death into a new life, a new beginning; it washed away the evil, those who suffered for evil-doing, and so saved those who had doubtless been suffering for well-doing. Thus it is the figure (τύπος) of the antitype (ἀντίτυπον) baptism; the two (the water of the Flood and the water of baptism) correspond as type and antitype.
And every other commentary I have found concurs that the corresponding elements are the water of the Flood and the water of baptism.
There are many type and antitype relationships in Scripture:
Passover (type) and Communion (antitype)
The Levitical Priesthood (type) and the Church priesthood (all members of the Church)(antitype)
The Temple in Jerusalem (type) and the Temple in Heaven (antitype)
The water of the Flood (type) and the water of baptism (antitype)
And I am sure there are others.
 
MTMattie said:
Funny that they all hop onto the water thing when Jesus was talking to Nicodemus.... but fail to include verse 6 which immediately follows vs 5.

5 Jesus answered, “I tell you the solemn truth, unless a person is born of water and spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God.

6 What is born of the flesh is flesh, and what is born of the Spirit is spirit.

THERE IS NO FLESH BORN IN AN IMMERSION.

And the Holy Spirit did not enter the water at Jesus' baptism.

Water is not needed....to be born again. Jesus said so.... or He deliberately was misleading Nick. And He would not.
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Jesus Himself explains what He means by "born of water" in verse 6 - "What is born of the flesh is flesh, ..."
 
Titus said:
Nicodemus did not understand Jesus.
Nicodemus asked,
John 3:3,
- Jesus answered and said to Nicodemus, Truly, I say to you unless someone is born again(Jesus is only teaching about spiritual birth not physical birth, born again)

- Jesus answered and said to Nicodemus Truly, I say to you unless someone is born again(spiritual birth) he cannot see the kingdom of God


Nicodemus does not understand, he takes Jesus as physical birth.

John 3:3-4,
- Nicodemus said to Jesus, how can a man be born(physical birth) when he is old? Can he enter a second time into his mothers womb and be born.

Nicodemus misunderstood Jesus is NOT TEACHING ABOUT PHYSICAL BIRTH.

John 3:3-5;6,
- Jesus answered truly, I say to you, unless someone is born of water(spiritual birth, as Jesus is not teaching about physical birth) and the Spirit(spiritually born again) he cannot enter the kingdom of God

Jesus then comments on Nicodemus' idea that Jesus was speaking of physical birth.
Jesus tells Nicodemus that physical is physical and spiritual is spiritual.
Helping Nicodemus see the difference between physical birth and spiritual birth, born again

Nowhere was Jesus teaching about physical birth as Jesus said, - unless someone is born again

John 3:5-6;7
- that which is born of flesh is flesh and that which is born of Spirit is spirit
- do not marvel that I said you must be born again

Jesus re-emphasizing to Nicodemus that He is teaching about spiritual birth not physical birth.

Not once did Jesus tell Nicodemus he must be physically born.
He told Nicodemus he must be born again(spiritual)
Jesus is teaching on being born of the Spirit. Not physical birth as Nicodemus' error.

John 3:3-8,
- the wind blows wherever it pleases you hear its sound but you cannot tell where it goes,
So it is with everyone born of the Spirit

Jesus is teaching on spiritual birth not on physical birth!!!

To interpret these verses as Jesus teaching on physical birth is making the same mistake Nicodemus made.

Nicodemus thought Jesus was teaching on physical birth and so do those today who think water is Jesus teaching on physical birth.
They do not understand mainly because they have been taught error by blind guides in their faith only churches.

John 3:3-9, 11
- Nicodemus responded and said to Jesus how can these things be
John 3:10,
- Jesus answered, You are Israel's teacher, and you do not understand these things

- I assure you, we tell you what we know and have seen and yet you wont believe our witness

You believe Jesus' teaching was earthly(natural birth) when He was speaking of that which is heavenly,(water baptism).

Matthew 21:25,
- The baptism(water) of John whence was it from,  heaven or of men
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Whatever. Jesus speaks of flesh. The spiritual birth is NOT from water.
 
dwight92070 said:
Jesus Himself explains what He means by "born of water" in verse 6 - "What is born of the flesh is flesh, ..."
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Nope. Born of water and the Spirit refers to rebirth into the Kingdom of God.
"Jesus responded and said to him, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless someone is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God.”
4 Nicodemus *said to Him, “How can a person be born when he is old? He cannot enter his mother’s womb a second time and be born, can he?” 5 Jesus answered, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless someone is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God."

Notice that the sentence in verse 3 and verse 5 are almost identical.
“Truly, truly, I say to you, unless someone is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God.”
“Truly, truly, I say to you, unless someone is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God."
The only changes are "again" being explained as being "of water and the Spirit",
and "see" being changed to "enter" which carry the same meaning.
 

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