Truther
Well-known member
You can be saved without water baptism in the name of Jesus for the remission of sins per Acts 2:38?
How so?
Mark 16:16~"He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
- Thread starter Red Baker
- Start date
How so?
Truther
Well-known member
So if you can believe and not have faith, then you can have faith and not believe. Boy, modern theology is deep.
Absurd. Where did you get the idea that you can have faith but not believe?
It did not come from me
according to scripture
John 3:16 (KJV 1900) — 16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
John 3:36 (KJV 1900) — 36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.
John 5:24 (KJV 1900) — 24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.
John 6:40 (KJV 1900) — 40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.
John 6:47 (KJV 1900) — 47 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life.
John 20:31 (KJV 1900) — 31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.
Truther
Well-known member
No, that's your idea. You think someone can believe faithlessly. The devils know God personally in the spirit world and believe far greater than we do. They dwell there. The reason they can't be saved is they cannot obey Acts 2:38 like we can.
Matter of fact, consider yourself lucky, because we are a little lower than they are in creation.
Truther
Well-known member
You need to graduate to Acts 2:38.
You are like these fellas here....
19 And it came to pass, that, while Apollos was at Corinth, Paul having passed through the upper coasts came to Ephesus: and finding certain disciples,
2 He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost.
3 And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism.
4 Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.
5 When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.
6 And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.
....which you ignore.
Sorry you do not get to ignore verses you cannot harmonize with your theology
according to scripture
John 3:16 (KJV 1900) — 16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
John 3:36 (KJV 1900) — 36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.
John 5:24 (KJV 1900) — 24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.
John 6:40 (KJV 1900) — 40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.
John 6:47 (KJV 1900) — 47 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life.
John 20:31 (KJV 1900) — 31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.
Once again Acts 2:38 is to Jews who rejected baptism in the name of Christ
and you will notice water baptism did not impart the Spirit to the Samaritans
Sorry but you are confused
Devils believe. They give mental assent to the fact of God's existence
They are not trusting in him however and so do not have faith.
Truther
Well-known member
The gentiles were baptized in the name of Jesus Christ in Acts 10 just like the Jews were baptized in the name of Jesus Christ in Acts 2. You don’t see a connection?
Truther
Well-known member
I see, now, you have inserted, “trusting God “ into what you consider the plan of salvation. That would be a work on your part. Trust takes work. Trust is earned. Trust is a mental exercise. Do you also believe in mustard seed trust?
Why do you ignore all the verses showing salvation is based upon faith
John 3:16 (KJV 1900) — 16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
John 3:36 (KJV 1900) — 36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.
John 5:24 (KJV 1900) — 24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.
John 6:40 (KJV 1900) — 40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.
John 6:47 (KJV 1900) — 47 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life.
John 20:31 (KJV 1900) — 31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.
Once again Acts 2:38 is to Jews who rejected baptism in the name of Christ
and you will notice water baptism did not impart the Spirit to the Samaritans
Obviously, you do not understand what biblical faith is
Trust is a key component of faith
That you do not know this shows you do not understand it
Ephesians 1:13–14 (UASV) — 13 In whom also, you having heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, in whom also having trusted, were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise, 14 who is a down payment of our inheritance for the redemption of the possession, to the praise of his glory.
πίστις -εως, ἡ; (pistis), N. faith. Hebrew equivalent: אֱמוּנָה (13), אֱמֶת (5), אמן 1 (1), אֲמָנָה 2 (1). LTW πίστις (Oaths and Vows), πίστις (Belief), πίστις (Faith).
Noun Usage
1. trust (faith) — strong confidence in, and reliance upon, someone or something; often with the object of trust understood
Rick Brannan, ed., Lexham Research Lexicon of the Greek New Testament (Lexham Research Lexicons; Bellingham, WA: Lexham Press, 2020).
πίστις, εως, ἡ (Hes., Hdt.+; inscr., pap. LXX; Ep. Arist. 37; Philo, Joseph,) faith, trust.
1. that which causes trust and faith
......
2. trust, confidence, faith in the active sense=‘believing’
William Arndt et al., A Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament and Other Early Christian Literature : A Translation and Adaption of the Fourth Revised and Augmented Edition of Walter Bauer’s Griechisch-Deutsches Worterbuch Zu Den Schrift En Des Neuen Testaments Und Der Ubrigen Urchristlichen Literatur (Chicago: University of Chicago Press, 1979), 662.
Complete
Well-known member
'And He said unto them,
Go ye into all the world,
and preach the gospel to every creature.
He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved;
but he that believeth not shall be damned.'
(Mar 16:15-16)
Hello there,
Why is it not possible to view Mark 16:16 within it's context, without this argument concerning Calvinism raising it's head. It is of the flesh, and therefore not of God.
'For ye are yet carnal:
for whereas there is among you
envying, and strife, and divisions,
are ye not carnal,
and walk as men?
For while one saith, I am of Paul;
and another, I am of Apollos;
are ye not carnal?'
(1Cor. 3:3-4)
It is the true understanding of the words of Mark 16:16 that is being sought in this thread
@mailmandan in reply#10 gave a good response:-
Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris
Go ye into all the world,
and preach the gospel to every creature.
He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved;
but he that believeth not shall be damned.'
(Mar 16:15-16)
Hello there,
Why is it not possible to view Mark 16:16 within it's context, without this argument concerning Calvinism raising it's head. It is of the flesh, and therefore not of God.
'For ye are yet carnal:
for whereas there is among you
envying, and strife, and divisions,
are ye not carnal,
and walk as men?
For while one saith, I am of Paul;
and another, I am of Apollos;
are ye not carnal?'
(1Cor. 3:3-4)
It is the true understanding of the words of Mark 16:16 that is being sought in this thread
@mailmandan in reply#10 gave a good response:-
Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris
Last edited:
Truther
Well-known member
All of the verses that you sent in your post were pre-Pentecost. You are living in a pre-Pentecost world.
Truther
Well-known member
So you trusted God implicitly the very moment that you believed in him? Or was it mustard seed trust?
Please stick to the point raised
you claimed trust was an addition to the way of salvation. Do you now see your error?
So you imagine the plan of salvation changed?
Ephesians 2:8 (ESV) — 8 For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God,
Acts 16:30–31 (ESV) — 30 Then he brought them out and said, “Sirs, what must I do to be saved?” 31 And they said, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household.”
Romans 10:8–9 (ESV) — 8 But what does it say? “The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart” (that is, the word of faith that we proclaim); 9 because, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.
Yea .. there was a different way of serving God in the Old Testament but not a different way of being converted. In the OT they had faith in the Messiah and God showed them their sacrifices of lambs, bulls and goats could not eternally stone for their sin, but were symbols of the atonement to come thru the Messiah.
At Pentecost, this was a change in the Holy Spirit being the Comforter in place of Jesus in person. It wasn't a new way of getting converted.
At Pentecost, this was a change in the Holy Spirit being the Comforter in place of Jesus in person. It wasn't a new way of getting converted.
looks like you have your post covered no need to reply you seem have all the answers
Truther
Well-known member
All I know is Christendom is filled with silly modern cliches like..." just trust the Lord as your savior", designed to debunk obedience to obeying Acts 2:38. Christendom replaces ancient salvation with new age ideas. Folks swallow it all too. I blame the folks and not so much the crooked teachers. The folks know what they want to hear via having itching ears.
