He that believes and is not water baptised is saved

[FreeInChrist]

That's not true. You not only need to learn to read but also to have comprehension of what you misread.
I never claimed to be of Jewish ancestry. My position is that God made covenant promises to Abram the Hebrew. Later, God made covenant promises with Abram's Hebrew seed whom God delivered out of their bondage in Egypt, led them through the desert and parked them at Mount Sinai where God made covenant promises with Abram's Hebrew seed also known as the children of Israel. My position is also that the prophet Jeremiah made a prophecy in which the God of Abram and his Hebrew seed will make a New Covenant with the House of Israel (ten northern kingdom tribes), and the House of Judah (two southern kingdom tribes and that this New Covenant from God was established in the body and blood of God's own Son who was the fulfillment of dozens of prophecies and promises in the Law, the Psalms, and the Prophets - the Hebrew Scripture - which New Covenant was initiated by the Holy Spirit of Promise PROMISED TO ISRAEL when He arrived on the Jewish Feast of Harvest (Pentecost) in which three thousand Jews and mixed heritage Jews were born-again and baptized into the body of the Promised One of Israel, and that by virtue of these covenant promises and covenants of God with the Hebrew people that those who are of Abram's Hebrew seed - both Jews and mixed heritage Jews - are the only people among all peoples of the world who are marked for salvation and redemption by the God of Abram.

I also claim in accordance with Hebrew Scripture that only Abram and his seed are blessed of these covenants and the accompanying promises including eternal life to be shared with God for all eternity. And since no man can trace their ancestry on this site past at least the American Revolutionary War that no one can know for sure whether they are of Hebrew ancestry

First of all. YOU are wrong.

I most certainly did trace my ancestry from my dad's side of things back to BC times. AND there was no Hebrew ancestry found
for me.... it was stupid northern ancestry as far back as it went....

And I then had 3 different DNA tests done looking for a link for me to Hebrew Ancestry.... NONE.

So all genealogy searches have stopped.

Even though I don't make the grade in your eyes.... do not assume people have not explored as far back as they could.

except by the fact that God made covenant with Abram and his seed, the Holy Spirit of Promise PROMISED TO ISRAEL is the means of a person being born-again and that no non-Hebrew Gentile are included in these covenants and promises made by God with the Hebrew people. Therefore, there is evidence based upon Scripture that the only people who have been promised the Holy Spirit are the Hebrew people in covenant with God and that since one needs the Holy Spirit to be born-again that any person who is truly born-again would have to be of Hebrew ancestry since God made covenant with Abram the Hebrew and his Hebrew seed.

Knowing without a doubt that I have been born-again, been given the Holy Spirit of Promise (another Comforter) to be with me until Jesus the Christ returns to earth as promised by the Son and that we will have to wait until then to know who is truly saved and who is not but has been living a lie based upon false Constantinian Gentile theology that although never having been in covenant with God nor given any of God's promises have for the past 2000 years made claim to the King of Israel and the God of Abram since then - something which cannot be found in any of the covenants nor in the Hebrew Scripture.

Therefore, knowing I am born-again and saved by the Holy Spirit the possibility that I might be Abram's seed rests on this evidence of Scripture and reality.

I am and have Him also in me.

And yes, I have and do speak in tongues.

As do I. Do you also interpret your tongues?

As Martin Luther is quoted as saying: I rest upon the Word of God. I can do no more. God help me.

Did you get all that?

Well, I dont know about anyone else, but I got that, and I know where I stand with God, and I am more Messianic for a blue eyes, redhead Irisher then you could possibly imagine .

But I don't often put down people that I feel do not measure up to me.... YOU do.

No one has control over their lineage other then when The Father laid it out for Jesus to trace back to David, which He did through not only Mary but also Joseph.

And you my brother also can trace your heritage back. It takes time and effort... but is doable.

 

[jeremiah1five]

First of all. YOU are wrong.

I most certainly did trace my ancestry from my dad's side of things back to BC times. AND there was no Hebrew ancestry found
for me.... it was stupid northern ancestry as far back as it went....

And I then had 3 different DNA tests done looking for a link for me to Hebrew Ancestry.... NONE.

So all genealogy searches have stopped.

Even though I don't make the grade in your eyes.... do not assume people have not explored as far back as they could.

I am and have Him also in me.

While my comment above is by no means the only reason of my position it is not the only one. And each question that has arisen in my study of the question about "Gentiles" I find no biblical support on many levels that Scripture has answered to my satisfaction. As a presumed "Gentile" I used to believe in the salvation of "Gentiles" but do not anymore because of what is found in Scripture on the question. If God wanted to save Gentiles He would have made covenant with them just as He did with Abram and his seed, a people called the children of Israel. There is no covenant between God and non-Hebrews in Scripture. And if God did make a covenant with Gentiles for their salvation they would be included in each of the three Hebrew covenants and that Gentiles would have a covenant, possess promises, have a history with God that is recorded for posterity just as Israel has with God and the record of that blessed relationship in the Law, Psalms, and the Prophets - the Hebrew Scripture. So, it is not only that God never promised Gentiles anything but that there is nothing in Scripture that supports Gentiles having a relationship with the God of Abraham like the covenant and histories in Scripture between God and Abraham and his seed. To include Gentiles in God's salvation alongside Israel means I have to accept the conclusion that God lied and that is another major thing that goes against Scripture. Not only does God not lie He cannot lie. We can see that God saves a people based on covenant and promises and God has neither with non-Hebrew Gentiles. What I was taught as a Christian over time falls apart when I consult the Word of God. I am honest with Scripture and while I am still awaiting someone, anyone, who can point to a covenant between God and non-Hebrew Gentiles I think we should start there. So, go on, show me in Scripture a covenant between God and Gentiles and while you're at it, tell me that Gentile's name so I can look it up in Scripture too.

As do I. Do you also interpret your tongues?

Yup.

Well, I dont know about anyone else, but I got that, and I know where I stand with God, and I am more Messianic for a blue eyes, redhead Irisher then you could possibly imagine .

But I don't often put down people that I feel do not measure up to me.... YOU do.

No, God does.

17 All nations before him are as nothing;
And they are counted to him less than nothing, and vanity.
Isaiah 40:17.

This is an insult from God on Gentile nations of the world. So, don't be surprised because I tell the truth.

No one has control over their lineage other then when The Father laid it out for Jesus to trace back to David, which He did through not only Mary but also Joseph.

And you my brother also can trace your heritage back. It takes time and effort... but is doable.

My positions do not rest on lineage alone. But I know for a fact that God does not lie and to include Gentiles in God's plan for Israel cannot be found in Scripture. Jesus as lamb of God fulfilling the Law of Moses means that there are no changes in the Law to include Gentiles and to claim Gentiles are also among the redeemed has no biblical basis. To include Gentiles is the position of Gentiles and not of God. And for me to believe it must come with His stamp of approval. There is none in Scripture. Now, on this one thing how do you answer that Joel prophesied that God promised His Spirit to Israel and not to Gentiles and that one needs the Holy Spirit to be saved? Then, there's Ezekiel. He prophesied to Israel and this thing about a "new heart" was promised to Israel not Gentiles. Another is the New Covenant prophesied by Jeremiah. Between the House of Israel and the House of Judah I find no Gentiles in this promise of a New Covenant with Israel.
The list is long. But these are only a couple.
Ig God loves "you" God will save "you", and while I can point to several passages where God declares His love for Israel there is nothing in Scripture that says God loves Gentiles. If He did, He would have included them in each of the three major saving covenants between God and Israel and again the Scripture is deafening silent.
The Hebrew Scripture begins with Genesis (although not in that order) and concludes with a prophecy to Israel by John. These are the Hebrew Scripture. And while I hold the original letters of the Jewish apostles as Bible I do not elevate their letters to the same authority as the prophets from Moses onward. All they are is the same I would do in searching the Old Testament in order to understand the New Covenant era Israel found herself in beginning on the Jewish Feast of Harvest (Pentecost) going forward. The book of Acts used to be called the Acts of the Holy Spirit and for good reason. He was the focal point of everything the Jews wrote in their letters.
So, let's start there.

 

[FreeInChrist]

While my comment above is by no means the only reason of my position it is not the only one. And each question that has arisen in my study of the question about "Gentiles" I find no biblical support on many levels that Scripture has answered to my satisfaction. As a presumed "Gentile" I used to believe in the salvation of "Gentiles" but do not anymore because of what is found in Scripture on the question. If God wanted to save Gentiles He would have made covenant with them just as He did with Abram and his seed, a people called the children of Israel. There is no covenant between God and non-Hebrews in Scripture. And if God did make a covenant with Gentiles for their salvation they would be included in each of the three Hebrew covenants and that Gentiles would have a covenant, possess promises, have a history with God that is recorded for posterity just as Israel has with God and the record of that blessed relationship in the Law, Psalms, and the Prophets - the Hebrew Scripture. So, it is not only that God never promised Gentiles anything but that there is nothing in Scripture that supports Gentiles having a relationship with the God of Abraham like the covenant and histories in Scripture between God and Abraham and his seed. To include Gentiles in God's salvation alongside Israel means I have to accept the conclusion that God lied and that is another major thing that goes against Scripture. Not only does God not lie He cannot lie. We can see that God saves a people based on covenant and promises and God has neither with non-Hebrew Gentiles. What I was taught as a Christian over time falls apart when I consult the Word of God. I am honest with Scripture and while I am still awaiting someone, anyone, who can point to a covenant between God and non-Hebrew Gentiles I think we should start there. So, go on, show me in Scripture a covenant between God and Gentiles and while you're at it, tell me that Gentile's name so I can look it up in Scripture too.

Yup.

No, God does.

17 All nations before him are as nothing;
And they are counted to him less than nothing, and vanity.
Isaiah 40:17.

This is an insult from God on Gentile nations of the world. So, don't be surprised because I tell the truth.

My positions do not rest on lineage alone. But I know for a fact that God does not lie and to include Gentiles in God's plan for Israel cannot be found in Scripture. Jesus as lamb of God fulfilling the Law of Moses means that there are no changes in the Law to include Gentiles and to claim Gentiles are also among the redeemed has no biblical basis. To include Gentiles is the position of Gentiles and not of God. And for me to believe it must come with His stamp of approval. There is none in Scripture. Now, on this one thing how do you answer that Joel prophesied that God promised His Spirit to Israel and not to Gentiles and that one needs the Holy Spirit to be saved? Then, there's Ezekiel. He prophesied to Israel and this thing about a "new heart" was promised to Israel not Gentiles. Another is the New Covenant prophesied by Jeremiah. Between the House of Israel and the House of Judah I find no Gentiles in this promise of a New Covenant with Israel.
The list is long. But these are only a couple.
Ig God loves "you" God will save "you", and while I can point to several passages where God declares His love for Israel there is nothing in Scripture that says God loves Gentiles. If He did, He would have included them in each of the three major saving covenants between God and Israel and again the Scripture is deafening silent.
The Hebrew Scripture begins with Genesis (although not in that order) and concludes with a prophecy to Israel by John. These are the Hebrew Scripture. And while I hold the original letters of the Jewish apostles as Bible I do not elevate their letters to the same authority as the prophets from Moses onward. All they are is the same I would do in searching the Old Testament in order to understand the New Covenant era Israel found herself in beginning on the Jewish Feast of Harvest (Pentecost) going forward. The book of Acts used to be called the Acts of the Holy Spirit and for good reason. He was the focal point of everything the Jews wrote in their letters.
So, let's start there.

Have you signed up for the Israel Bible study?

The Israel Bible – Hebrew Bible Online, Start with Bible Study Tools

The Israel Bible is the world's first Hebrew Bible centered around the Land of Israel, the People of Israel, and the dynamic relationship between them.

theisraelbible.com

It is not free but you might enjoy.

One question.

Assuming that all Gentiles will not make it into heaven.... no matter our faith ....you study your scriptures.

Are you of the opinion that we are all on the yellow brick road to burn?

If so, would you venture a guess as to why we were made in the first place unless it was only to make Israel jealous?

Romans 11: 11 I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy.

And should I chalk up another lie told by Paul?

For if there is no salvation this is not the truth.... is it?

Scripturally if you want to make your case stronger always start with the quote.

Matt 15:24 But He answered and said, “I was sent only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.”

Follow with

Matt 10:5 5These twelve Jesus sent out with the following instructions: “Do not go onto the road of the Gentiles or enter any town of the Samaritans. 6Go rather to the lost sheep of Israel.…

That is a reasonable summation right there, if you say nothing else.

I am not recalling how you actually think of Jesus. You are very OT so I suppose you may be God only?

Finally..... knowing what you believe. Can you explain the following?


Cross References
Acts 13:46
Then Paul and Barnabas answered them boldly: “It was necessary to speak the word of God to you first. But since you reject it and do not consider yourselves worthy of eternal life, we now turn to the Gentiles.

Romans 1:16
I am not ashamed of the gospel, because it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes, first to the Jew, then to the Greek.

Romans 11:11
I ask then, did they stumble so as to fall beyond recovery? Certainly not! However, because of their trespass, salvation has come to the Gentiles to make Israel jealous.

Isaiah 49:6
He says: “It is not enough for You to be My Servant, to raise up the tribes of Jacob, and to restore the protected ones of Israel. I will also make You a light for the nations, to bring My salvation to the ends of the earth.”

commentary on this verse... Isaiah 49:6 conveys that God's servant, often interpreted as Jesus, is called not only to restore Israel but also to be a light for the Gentiles, bringing salvation to all nations. This highlights the universal scope of God's salvation plan, extending beyond Israel to the entire world.

Luke 24:47
and in His name repentance and forgiveness of sins will be proclaimed to all nations, beginning in Jerusalem.

Acts 1:8
But you will receive power when the Holy Spirit comes upon you, and you will be My witnesses in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the ends of the earth.”

Acts 18:6
But when they opposed and insulted him, he shook out his garments and told them, “Your blood be on your own heads! I am innocent of it. From now on I will go to the Gentiles.”

Acts 28:28
Be advised, therefore, that God’s salvation has been sent to the Gentiles, and they will listen!”

Luke 10:1
After these things the Lord appointed other seventy also, and sent them two and two before his face into every city and place, whither he himself would come.

John 7:35
Then said the Jews among themselves, Whither will he go, that we shall not find him? will he go unto the dispersed among the Gentiles, and teach the Gentiles?

Looks like the Jews were concerned over the Gentiles being taught

Acts 10:45-48
And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost…

Luke 9:52-54
And sent messengers before his face: and they went, and entered into a village of the Samaritans, to make ready for him…

That's enough for now.

What say you about these. Are they ALL lies?

 

[jeremiah1five]

Have you signed up for the Israel Bible study?

The Israel Bible – Hebrew Bible Online, Start with Bible Study Tools

The Israel Bible is the world's first Hebrew Bible centered around the Land of Israel, the People of Israel, and the dynamic relationship between them.

theisraelbible.com

It is not free but you might enjoy.

Thank you for that. In all honesty some Jewish studies are infected with false Gentile theology. And to be quite honest with you, me and King James, Strong's, and the Holy Spirit do OK in my studies. I am honest with Scripture. I don't add to the Bible things not there as many do which is very disturbing to me. Or some see a passage of Scripture that speaks significant things but many ignore Scripture to maintain their false theologies. It comes down to one question: Where in the Bible does it say God made a covenant with Gentiles? To date, no one can point to any Scripture that says such a thing. Then there are those that elevate the New Covenant epistles above the prophets of Israel. I do what Saul, Peter, James, and John do and that is look into the Old Testament under the anointing and interpret the Scripture as written. There is no difference in my anointing and Saul's anointing. The revelation Saul says in Galatians one is the revelation one can receive when looking at the Hebrew Scripture and to interpret them in the same light (illumination.) Saul's revelation came about through study of Scripture. But then there are those that spiritualize the process to the point that they believe Jesus left heaven and spoke directly with Saul and this is not true.

One question.
Assuming that all Gentiles will not make it into heaven.... no matter our faith ....you study your scriptures.
Are you of the opinion that we are all on the yellow brick road to burn?
If so, would you venture a guess as to why we were made in the first place unless it was only to make Israel jealous?

Some men look at the washing of water by the word as though being touched by the water of the word will cause them to cry out, "I'm melting! I'm melting!" At least four times in world history God scattered the Hebrew people among Gentiles and this led to intermarriages and mixed mingling between Jews and Gentiles causing mixed heritage offspring between them. Assyria conquered and exiled the ten northern kingdom tribes in 722 BC with Babylon defeating Assyria soon after and taking whatever Hebrews were alive back to Babylon. In 586 BC Babylon conquered the two southern kingdom tribes of Judah and exiled them as well. The third scattering was when Rome sacked Jerusalem and destroyed their Temple in AD 70, even passing laws prohibiting Jews from returning to the Holy Land and Jerusalem. The fourth time was by Nazi Germany in the 1930s and 40s. With nearly 2 million Hebrews taken first by Assyria then Babylon, the majority of them remained in Gentile lands while Nehemiah and later, Ezra, gathered up a remnant of about 30-to-50 thousand Jews back to Israel while over one million remained in Gentile lands. Those that returned were mostly of the two southern tribes. But the gospels identify the offspring of the ten northern kingdom tribes along with Manassas and Ephraim who came to be known as Samaritan. Where in the gospels are the two southern kingdom tribes and Gentile offspring of Judah and Benjamin? Why are the offspring of the two tribes and their mixed-race people not mentioned in the gospels? Do you know? They are present for Peter addresses the twelve tribes in Acts 2.

Romans 11: 11 I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy.
And should I chalk up another lie told by Paul?
For if there is no salvation this is not the truth.... is it?
Scripturally if you want to make your case stronger always start with the quote.
Matt 15:24 But He answered and said, “I was sent only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.”
Follow with
Matt 10:5 5These twelve Jesus sent out with the following instructions: “Do not go onto the road of the Gentiles or enter any town of the Samaritans. 6Go rather to the lost sheep of Israel.…
That is a reasonable summation right there, if you say nothing else.
I am not recalling how you actually think of Jesus. You are very OT so I suppose you may be God only?
Finally..... knowing what you believe. Can you explain the following?

Actually, I am Newer Testament it's just that you don't recognize this.

Cross References
Acts 13:46
Then Paul and Barnabas answered them boldly: “It was necessary to speak the word of God to you first. But since you reject it and do not consider yourselves worthy of eternal life, we now turn to the Gentiles.

And exactly who are these Gentiles?

Romans 1:16
I am not ashamed of the gospel, because it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes, first to the Jew, then to the Greek.

Romans 11:11
I ask then, did they stumble so as to fall beyond recovery? Certainly not! However, because of their trespass, salvation has come to the Gentiles to make Israel jealous.

Isaiah 49:6
He says: “It is not enough for You to be My Servant, to raise up the tribes of Jacob, and to restore the protected ones of Israel. I will also make You a light for the nations, to bring My salvation to the ends of the earth.”

commentary on this verse... Isaiah 49:6 conveys that God's servant, often interpreted as Jesus, is called not only to restore Israel but also to be a light for the Gentiles, bringing salvation to all nations. This highlights the universal scope of God's salvation plan, extending beyond Israel to the entire world.

That's your erroneous interpretation. Who are these Gentiles? Identify them.

Luke 24:47
and in His name repentance and forgiveness of sins will be proclaimed to all nations, beginning in Jerusalem.

Acts 1:8
But you will receive power when the Holy Spirit comes upon you, and you will be My witnesses in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the ends of the earth.”

That's interesting because that's exactly where God scattered His people - to the ends of the earth. If God wanted to send them a message, what does He do? I mean, these did not know Messiah had come (and gone.) Jesus never left the Holy Land. How does God inform His people living in Gentile lands that He kept His Promise and Messiah had come (and gone.) Did you know Jesus was on Mount Olives when He is quoted as saying Acts 1: 8. Jerusalem is to the west, Judah to the south, Samaria to the north, and "uttermost parts" are to the east towards Mesopotamia and the Orient. That's how far and wide God scattered His people. Shouldn't God tell them their Promised Messiah had come (and gone)? Take a closer look. Acts 1: 8 Jesus is identifying the four cardinal points of the compass.

Acts 18:6
But when they opposed and insulted him, he shook out his garments and told them, “Your blood be on your own heads! I am innocent of it. From now on I will go to the Gentiles.”

Acts 28:28
Be advised, therefore, that God’s salvation has been sent to the Gentiles, and they will listen!”

Luke 10:1
After these things the Lord appointed other seventy also, and sent them two and two before his face into every city and place, whither he himself would come.

John 7:35
Then said the Jews among themselves, Whither will he go, that we shall not find him? will he go unto the dispersed among the Gentiles, and teach the Gentiles?

Looks like the Jews were concerned over the Gentiles being taught

Acts 10:45-48
And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost…

Luke 9:52-54
And sent messengers before his face: and they went, and entered into a village of the Samaritans, to make ready for him…

That's enough for now.

What say you about these. Are they ALL lies?

Can a born-again Christians make disciples of unsaved, yet to be born-again people? It's impossible, right? But that's what Jesus is saying in Matthew 28:

19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Matthew 28:19–20.

Jesus says nothing about converting them. How can born-again Jewish men make disciples of unsaved, unconverted people? Gentiles know nothing of the Jewish religion, their prophets, their Scripture, their culture, or their Messiah. Why doesn't Jesus say, "wait for me to convert them first." What do Gentiles know of "cleansings and washings?" That's Jewish rituals contained in the Mosaic Law. Is Jesus really saying to make disciples of unsaved, unconverted, ignorant-of-all-things-Jewish Gentiles of all nations? Can you make disciples of idol-worshiping Gentiles? Explain that one for me - IF you know.

 

[FreeInChrist]

Thank you for that. In all honesty some Jewish studies are infected with false Gentile theology. And to be quite honest with you, me and King James, Strong's, and the Holy Spirit do OK in my studies. I am honest with Scripture. I don't add to the Bible things not there as many do which is very disturbing to me. Or some see a passage of Scripture that speaks significant things but many ignore Scripture to maintain their false theologies. It comes down to one question: Where in the Bible does it say God made a covenant with Gentiles? To date, no one can point to any Scripture that says such a thing. Then there are those that elevate the New Covenant epistles above the prophets of Israel. I do what Saul, Peter, James, and John do and that is look into the Old Testament under the anointing and interpret the Scripture as written. There is no difference in my anointing and Saul's anointing. The revelation Saul says in Galatians one is the revelation one can receive when looking at the Hebrew Scripture and to interpret them in the same light (illumination.) Saul's revelation came about through study of Scripture. But then there are those that spiritualize the process to the point that they believe Jesus left heaven and spoke directly with Saul and this is not true.

Some men look at the washing of water by the word as though being touched by the water of the word will cause them to cry out, "I'm melting! I'm melting!" At least four times in world history God scattered the Hebrew people among Gentiles and this led to intermarriages and mixed mingling between Jews and Gentiles causing mixed heritage offspring between them. Assyria conquered and exiled the ten northern kingdom tribes in 722 BC with Babylon defeating Assyria soon after and taking whatever Hebrews were alive back to Babylon. In 586 BC Babylon conquered the two southern kingdom tribes of Judah and exiled them as well. The third scattering was when Rome sacked Jerusalem and destroyed their Temple in AD 70, even passing laws prohibiting Jews from returning to the Holy Land and Jerusalem. The fourth time was by Nazi Germany in the 1930s and 40s. With nearly 2 million Hebrews taken first by Assyria then Babylon, the majority of them remained in Gentile lands while Nehemiah and later, Ezra, gathered up a remnant of about 30-to-50 thousand Jews back to Israel while over one million remained in Gentile lands. Those that returned were mostly of the two southern tribes. But the gospels identify the offspring of the ten northern kingdom tribes along with Manassas and Ephraim who came to be known as Samaritan. Where in the gospels are the two southern kingdom tribes and Gentile offspring of Judah and Benjamin? Why are the offspring of the two tribes and their mixed-race people not mentioned in the gospels? Do you know? They are present for Peter addresses the twelve tribes in Acts 2.

Actually, I am Newer Testament it's just that you don't recognize this.

And exactly who are these Gentiles?

That's your erroneous interpretation. Who are these Gentiles? Identify them.

That's interesting because that's exactly where God scattered His people - to the ends of the earth. If God wanted to send them a message, what does He do? I mean, these did not know Messiah had come (and gone.) Jesus never left the Holy Land. How does God inform His people living in Gentile lands that He kept His Promise and Messiah had come (and gone.) Did you know Jesus was on Mount Olives when He is quoted as saying Acts 1: 8. Jerusalem is to the west, Judah to the south, Samaria to the north, and "uttermost parts" are to the east towards Mesopotamia and the Orient. That's how far and wide God scattered His people. Shouldn't God tell them their Promised Messiah had come (and gone)? Take a closer look. Acts 1: 8 Jesus is identifying the four cardinal points of the compass.

Can a born-again Christians make disciples of unsaved, yet to be born-again people? It's impossible, right? But that's what Jesus is saying in Matthew 28:

19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Matthew 28:19–20.

Jesus says nothing about converting them. How can born-again Jewish men make disciples of unsaved, unconverted people? Gentiles know nothing of the Jewish religion, their prophets, their Scripture, their culture, or their Messiah. Why doesn't Jesus say, "wait for me to convert them first." What do Gentiles know of "cleansings and washings?" That's Jewish rituals contained in the Mosaic Law. Is Jesus really saying to make disciples of unsaved, unconverted, ignorant-of-all-things-Jewish Gentiles of all nations? Can you make disciples of idol-worshiping Gentiles? Explain that one for me - IF you know.

You ignored what I posted by way of scriptures.

My final word on this subject.... BTW we have tangled before elsewhere. You have not changed.

The biblical perspective suggests that the covenants were primarily made with the Jewish people, specifically with Israel, and Gentiles are seen as beneficiaries of these covenants through faith in Christ. While Gentiles are not the original recipients of the covenants, they can participate in the blessings through their relationship with Jesus, who fulfills the promises made to Israel.

Read and learn then quit asking....

Are Gentiles included in the Old Testament covenants? | Verse By Verse Ministry International

Paul teaches in Ephesians that Gentiles were not natural recipients of the covenants but were included through God's promises to Abraham's family.

versebyverseministry.org

Do Gentiles receive the promises of the covenants given to Abraham?

In Ephesians Paul teaches that Gentiles were not natural recipients of the covenants though they were included. Beginning with Abraham, the Lord made promises to bring a Deliverer through Abraham’s family. The family of Abraham are the Jewish people, beginning with Isaac. Prior to Isaac, there was no such thing as Jew or Gentile. By definition, the word Gentile means someone who is not Jewish, therefore the concept of a Gentile has no meaning unless a Jewish nation exists.
Therefore, we say Isaac was the first Jew (i.e., the first in Abraham’s family to receive the promises). All who descend from Isaac and Jacob are the people of the covenant. Later, God elaborates on His covenant by speaking through the prophets and eventually through Christ Himself. All these promises were given to the Jewish people, not to Gentiles, and only those who trace their ancestry to Abraham, Isaac and Jacob may be considered Jews.

Thankfully, the Lord also made accommodation for Gentiles in His covenants:

GEN. 12:1 Now the Lord said to Abram, "Go forth from your country, And from your relatives And from your father's house, To the land which I will show you; GEN. 12:2 And I will make you a great nation, And I will bless you, And make your name great; And so you shall be a blessing; GEN. 12:3 And I will bless those who bless you, And the one who curses you I will curse. And in you all the families of the earth will be blessed."​

Notice in the covenant given to Abraham, the Lord declared that through Abraham’s family (i.e., the Jewish people) all families (i.e., the Gentiles) would be blessed. Clearly, the Lord sees other nations as distinct from Abraham’s family because He declares Abraham’s family will become a great nation apart from all other families on earth.
So the Lord promised that He would extend the blessing He assigned to the Jewish people into all the world. Gentiles are the not recipients of the covenants but we do have opportunity to participate in them (by faith) and therefore receive the blessings of these promises. Paul describes our relationship to the covenants given to Israel in this way:

ROM 11: 17-18
17 If some of the branches have been broken off, and you, though a wild olive shoot, have been grafted in among the others and now share in the nourishing sap from the olive root,
18 do not consider yourself to be superior to those other branches. If you do, consider this: You do not support the root, but the root supports you.

Gentiles are “grafted” into the promises given to Israel by our faith Christ, Who is the promised fulfillment of those covenants. Paul says were are being grafted into a root that we were not naturally a part of, though we now are nourished by the root. The root in Paul’s analogy is the nation of Israel and the covenants God gave to that nation. We are not naturally born Jews, but nevertheless we are receiving what God promised to the Jews by our faith.
One day, the Jewish people will receive what was promised too, though for now they are being hardened Paul says for our sake. For a more complete understanding of these things, we recommend you listen to Chapters 9-11 of our Romans study.

I will post no more for you cannot understand what you see.

I am done.

Toodles

 

[jeremiah1five]

You ignored what I posted by way of scriptures. View attachment 2329

My final word on this subject.... BTW we have tangled before elsewhere. You have not changed.

The biblical perspective suggests that the covenants were primarily made with the Jewish people, specifically with Israel, and Gentiles are seen as beneficiaries of these covenants through faith in Christ. While Gentiles are not the original recipients of the covenants, they can participate in the blessings through their relationship with Jesus, who fulfills the promises made to Israel.

Read and learn then quit asking....

Are Gentiles included in the Old Testament covenants? | Verse By Verse Ministry International

Paul teaches in Ephesians that Gentiles were not natural recipients of the covenants but were included through God's promises to Abraham's family.

versebyverseministry.org

Do Gentiles receive the promises of the covenants given to Abraham?



Gentiles are “grafted” into the promises given to Israel by our faith Christ, Who is the promised fulfillment of those covenants. Paul says were are being grafted into a root that we were not naturally a part of, though we now are nourished by the root. The root in Paul’s analogy is the nation of Israel and the covenants God gave to that nation. We are not naturally born Jews, but nevertheless we are receiving what God promised to the Jews by our faith.
One day, the Jewish people will receive what was promised too, though for now they are being hardened Paul says for our sake. For a more complete understanding of these things, we recommend you listen to Chapters 9-11 of our Romans study.

I will post no more for you cannot understand what you see.

I am done.

Toodles

I have not changed because the Scripture has not changed but gives Christ as lamb of God and whose sacrifice is offered to and for the children of Israel in covenant with God. Jesus Christ lived under the Law in order to redeem those under the Law as the Holy Spirit said:

4 But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law,
5 To redeem them that were under the law, that we [Jews] might receive the adoption of sons. Galatians 4:3–5.

Through Christ's sacrifice they did receive themselves as adopted sons of the God of Abraham. Before Christ went to die on the cross He sanctified those under the Law as the people to whom He is offered for the sins of Israel. If Christ wanted non-Hebrew Gentiles of the world to be saved He would have prayed for them and covered them under His blood before God as High Priest, but He didn't. Christ lived under the Law and redeemed those under the Law and Gentiles have NEVER been included in any of the three Hebrew covenants with God.

 

[Eternally-Grateful]

I don't think there is anyone posting in this forum that boasts more than @Eternally-Grateful. Maybe @jeremiah1five but probably not.

show me one boast where I have boasted in anything I have done.

Again, I boast in Christ.

You boast in your water baptism.

we are not the same

 

[Jim]

You boast in your water baptism.

And you boast in your rejection of water baptism.

we are not the same

And I might boast in that.

 

[Eternally-Grateful]

And you boast in your rejection of water baptism.

lol, Now I have heard everything,

This type of stuff is said when people are desperate..

And I might boast in that.

Of course you would

Its all about you. Not Christ.

 

[Jim]

lol, Now I have heard everything,

This type of stuff is said when people are desperate..

Of course you would

Its all about you. Not Christ.

Christ was water baptized. But good old @Eternally-Grateful certainly would have none of that.

 

[Eternally-Grateful]

Christ was water baptized. But good old @Eternally-Grateful certainly would have none of that.

yes he was, as a witness to John and the world.

and so was I. as I have explained to you numerous times.

Your lack of knowledge of what we are even discussing keeps coming back to bite you. like I said, keep talking, you keep prety much proving me right

 

[Jim]

Your lack of knowledge of what we are even discussing keeps coming back to bite you. like I said, keep talking, you keep prety much proving me right

And your lack of knowledge of biblical truth keeps coming back to bite you.

 

[Eternally-Grateful]

And your lack of knowledge of biblical truth keeps coming back to bite you.

yawn

like I said. Keep talking. You could not even repent that you misrepresented me..

But thats ok.. Again, you hurt yourself. and no one will listen to you about your self righteous gospel.. which is the goal

 

[Jim]

yawn

like I said. Keep talking. You could not even repent that you misrepresented me..

But thats ok.. Again, you hurt yourself. and no one will listen to you about your self righteous gospel.. which is the goal

Perhaps I have misrepresented you, but I doubt it. What I do know is that you have misrepresented God's word in your ignorance of biblical baptism.

 

[Eternally-Grateful]

Perhaps I have misrepresented you, but I doubt it. What I do know is that you have misrepresented God's word in your ignorance of biblical baptism.

actually, That is you my friend.

But that's ok. again, Keep boasting of your baptism., let me guess, You think you can lose salvation also do you not? (if not. your the first I ever met who believes one but not another)

I will boast in God who baptized me.. And in God who saved me..

 

[Jim]

actually, That is you my friend.

But that's ok. again, Keep boasting of your baptism., let me guess, You think you can lose salvation also do you not? (if not. your the first I ever met who believes one but not another)

I will boast in God who baptized me.. And in God who saved me..

And I will boast in God who baptized me when I was water baptized and He forgave my sins and gave me the gift of the Holy Spirit, i.e., baptism of the Holy Spirit.

 

[Eternally-Grateful]

And I will boast in God who baptized me when I was water baptized and He forgave my sins and gave me the gift of the Holy Spirit, i.e., baptism of the Holy Spirit.

Um No

God did not depend on you to get water baptized before he saved you

he would have saved you the moment you called out to him in faith as the tax collector did,

You are limiting God to the work of men, and denying his work