Just because a gentile becomes Born-Again......

[civic]

Calvinists believe in the Preservation of the Elect.

Baptist believe in the Preservation of the Saved.

a distinction with a difference !

 

[Behold]

Abraham is the father of all IN COVENANT that believe,

If a person is born again, then they have BELIEVED,. by FAITH. (Faith in Christ).

Abraham is the father of our FAITH... said Paul the Apostle.

 

[jeremiah1five]

which (the Septuagint) immediately became an integral part of the Early Christian Church from the get go.

Not necessarily. They also had the Hebrew Scripture. Personally, Saul had a copy.

Wrong. Hellenized Jews immediately became fellow co-sharers of the New Covenant (Eucharist) upon their conversion with Gentile Christians. Stop projecting your hostile personality on them.

Here is the New Covenant prophecy. Notice there are NO GENTILES mentioned. Also notice God is husband, which means Israel is His Bride:

31 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD,
That I will make a new covenant
With the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:
32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers
In the day that I took them by the hand
To bring them out of the land of Egypt;
Which my covenant they brake,
Although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:
Jer. 31:31–32.

There is no ambiguity in God's words here. The New Covenant is between God and the House of Israel/Judah. If you want to add to the bible, then God calls you a liar.

6 Add thou not unto his words,
Lest he reprove thee, and thou be found a liar.
Prov. 30:6.

Thou shalt not bear false witness.

They were educated by the converted Hellenized Jews who were more than willing to share their knowledge of the Septuagint with converted Gentiles. Stop projecting your hoarding personality on them.

Saul had a hard time finding Jews who were born again that would do that. Once a Jew was born again, they continued under the Torah and continued to obey the Torah and in the beginning even though the middle wall partition was broken down it took a while for the Jewish Christians to have 20/20 eyesight with regard to Gentiles who were not proselyte or God-Fearers.

The OT is a historical book, whether Hebrew or Greek. Your disdain for history explains why you have such disdain for the Septuagint.

The Hebrew Scriptures from Matthew to Revelation is a history of the Hebrew people and their relationship with God and His covenants. The Scripture was also prophesy which covered past, present, and future with as much accuracy as Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, today, and forever.
It is THEIR history so why don't you respect it for what it is: Jewish covenants with a Jewish Messiah and God made no covenant with Gentiles. If He did I suppose there would be Gentile Scriptures and a great deal of confusion.

 

[jeremiah1five]

but not this one...

which land is the point...
the point is not whether He created His...

its the context...
before the fall or after..

and we are in the after theme = Death

this is why prophets say this earth will only be fit for rats and moles..

now, why logically would God end this earth, as he says he will in prophets..
and why will it pass, if He had created this one and declared it good?

answer is: this is not His... He did not declare this one good...


our land in the other reality... Eden paradise.

There was no fall.
Man (and woman) were created sinful and fallen short of His glory.
That's why they sinned. They were sinners even before they ate from the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil.

 

[jeremiah1five]

in layman's terms your NUTS . we no longer live under the law when Christ died the vail of temple was tore in half gaining full access. there has been tons of scripture to prove you wrong .

Let me guess, because you take Saul's words, "for ye are not under the law, but under grace" (Rom. 6:14) as proof that the Law has no more influence upon a born-again Christian?
Is that your basis for rejecting God's Law/Torah?

 

[dwight92070]

Galatians 1:8

 

[dwight92070]

a distinction with a difference !

The Bible teaches preservation of those who continue in faith, not of those who do not.
Another distinction.

 

[TomL]

No, Saul is warning others about Judaizers who teach one must be circumcised to be saved. But for Jews who become saved they continued in obedience to the Torah and God was well pleased. The correct teaching is that the Law does not save, but once a person is saved outside of the Torah it is the Torah of God that instructs the true born-again Christian - Jew or Gentile - that instructs in righteousness so that a believer may be well pleasing to God for good works:

So you still practice the sacrificial law?

 

[john]

Let me guess, because you take Saul's words, "for ye are not under the law, but under grace" (Rom. 6:14) as proof that the Law has no more influence upon a born-again Christian?
Is that your basis for rejecting God's Law/Torah?

i take paul word which are inspired and i also go by john 3:3 which is the spiritual birth that is available to all the who so ever. the great commission go ye into ALL the world . i really have no desire to even haggle this with you. your blinded by Religion and the God of this world .. how can you call your self a Christian and put limits on who can be saved you sir as paul wrote in Galatians have fallen from Grace . your clinging to law

 

[synergy]

a distinction with a difference !

I'm curious about that phrase. It's oftentimes used in conversations between Calvinists and non-Calvinists. Isn't something distinct because it's different? How can it be otherwise?

 

[synergy]

There was no fall.
Man (and woman) were created sinful and fallen short of His glory.
That's why they sinned. They were sinners even before they ate from the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil.

Only a pagan god creates sinful/evil things. Only a pagan god is the source of evil. May you and your pagan god be happy with each other.

 

[synergy]

No, Saul is warning others about Judaizers who teach one must be circumcised to be saved. But for Jews who become saved they continued in obedience to the Torah and God was well pleased. The correct teaching is that the Law does not save, but once a person is saved outside of the Torah it is the Torah of God that instructs the true born-again Christian - Jew or Gentile - that instructs in righteousness so that a believer may be well pleasing to God for good works:

16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works. 2 Tim. 3:16–17.

After a person becomes saved the Hebrew Scripture is profitable first and foremost for DOCTRINE, then for reproof, then for correction (of heresy and false teaching such as what Gentiles teach) and for instruction in righteousness so that the born-again believer keep God's Torah which keeps them on the straight and narrow.
But sadly, there are millions of Gentiles that reject God's Torah just as Saul told the Jews in Romans that by rejecting God's Torah, they go about trying to establish THEIR OWN righteousness instead of the righteousness which is of God and His Torah. Without God's Torah a Christian cannot be led of God for God IS the Torah which they have rejected.
Stupid Gentiles.

2 For I bear them record that they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge.
3 For they being ignorant of God’s righteousness, (because they've abolished the Law) and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.
Rom. 10:2–3.

The righteousness Saul is speaking about is the Torah.
Stupid Gentiles.

Why do you keep embarrassing yourself with your dirt poor understanding of English? The word you in Gal 5:2 and Gal 6:13 clearly demonstrates that Paul is directly addressing those who are uncircumcised. They are his audience. Do you understand English?

2 Indeed I, Paul, say to you that if you become circumcised, Christ will profit you nothing

13 For not even those who are circumcised keep the law, but they desire to have you circumcised that they may boast in your flesh.

Hence, Paul is warning Gentiles against Judaizers like you. In your case, you are judaizing Ethnic Cleansing.

 

[civic]

I'm curious about that phrase. It's oftentimes used in conversations between Calvinists and non-Calvinists. Isn't something distinct because it's different? How can it be otherwise?

A distinction without a difference is a type of logical fallacy where an author or speaker attempts to describe a distinction between two things where no discernible difference exists.[1] It is particularly used when a word or phrase has connotations associated with it that one party to an argument prefers to avoid.

For example, a person might say "I did not lie; I merely stretched the truth a little bit.

I intentionally used the opposite to avoid the fallacy.

 

[jeremiah1five]

a) israel the country on this earth
b) any place on all of this earth
c) the area of your map marked in red:

none of these listed in red are His promised land to His sons...

His promise is that all His sons will be restored to their Land , Eden Paradise
in the other reality ,
which was stolen.

The Promised Land is described in Genesis 15.

18 In the same day the LORD made a covenant with Abram, saying, Unto thy seed have I given this land, from the river of Egypt unto the great river, the river Euphrates:
19 The Kenites, and the Kenizzites, and the Kadmonites,
20 And the Hittites, and the Perizzites, and the Rephaims,
21 And the Amorites, and the Canaanites, and the Girgashites, and the Jebusites.
Gen. 15:18–21.

This will take some study but these borders mark out the land God promised Abraham and his seed. It's in the middle east.

 

[synergy]

Not necessarily. They also had the Hebrew Scripture. Personally, Saul had a copy.

Of course Paul had copies but he chose verses directly from the Septuagint to write His Epistles. Your favorite Apostle preferred the Septuagint. That's why he's your model Apostle and you are his model student.

Here is the New Covenant prophecy. Notice there are NO GENTILES mentioned. Also notice God is husband, which means Israel is His Bride:

31 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD,
That I will make a new covenant
With the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:
32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers
In the day that I took them by the hand
To bring them out of the land of Egypt;
Which my covenant they brake,
Although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:
Jer. 31:31–32.

There is no ambiguity in God's words here. The New Covenant is between God and the House of Israel/Judah. If you want to add to the bible, then God calls you a liar.

6 Add thou not unto his words,
Lest he reprove thee, and thou be found a liar.
Prov. 30:6.

Thou shalt not bear false witness.

The New Covenant is the Blood of Christ (Matt 26:28) with which Gentiles are now brought near to everything mentioned in Eph 2:12.

(Eph 2:12-13) and that at that time you were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world.
But now in Christ Jesus you who were once afar off are made near by the blood of Christ.

Stop bearing false witness against the word of God.

Saul had a hard time finding Jews who were born again that would do that. Once a Jew was born again, they continued under the Torah and continued to obey the Torah and in the beginning even though the middle wall partition was broken down it took a while for the Jewish Christians to have 20/20 eyesight with regard to Gentiles who were not proselyte or God-Fearers.

God did not have a hard time when he elected many Hellenized Diaspora Jews for that exact role. Read 1 Pet 1:1-2.

1Pe 1:1 Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, to the elect sojourners of the Dispersion of Pontus, of Galatia, of Cappadocia, of Asia, and of Bithynia,
1Pe 1:2 according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, in sanctification of the Spirit, to obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ. May grace and peace be multiplied to you.

The Hebrew Scriptures from Matthew to Revelation is a history of the Hebrew people and their relationship with God and His covenants. The Scripture was also prophesy which covered past, present, and future with as much accuracy as Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, today, and forever.
It is THEIR history so why don't you respect it for what it is: Jewish covenants with a Jewish Messiah and God made no covenant with Gentiles. If He did I suppose there would be Gentile Scriptures and a great deal of confusion.

Christ's Blood is the New Covenant which includes Gentiles also as Eph 2:12-13 clearly proves. Why don't you believe the word of God?

 

[jeremiah1five]

Sorry you are denying the texts

First the passage states they were strangers to the covenants of promise, then it states they were no longer strangers (to those covenants) in Christ

Yes, I see that, but God doesn't say they are IN covenant, only that they are not strangers to the covenant which means they are "near" and can refer to receiving the "blessings of covenant" without being IN covenant. This also occurred with Abraham's household in Genesis 17. These individuals were circumcised but God doesn't say their circumcision means they are IN covenant because God is clear and He says several times that His covenant is between "God," "thee" (Abraham), and "his seed" and the stranger, servant, even the sojourner that stayed with Abraham. Take notice:

10 This is my covenant, which ye shall keep, between me and you and thy seed after thee; Every man child among you shall be circumcised.
11 And ye shall circumcise the flesh of your foreskin; and it shall be a token of the covenant betwixt me and you.
12 And he that is eight days old shall be circumcised among you, every man child in your generations, he that is born in the house, or bought with money of any stranger, which is not of thy seed.
13 He that is born in thy house, and he that is bought with thy money, must needs be circumcised: and my covenant shall be in your flesh for an everlasting covenant.
Gen. 17:9–13.

God is saying the covenant is between Him, Abraham, and his seed. His seed down through the generations are the twelve tribes of the sons of Jacob who are now called the "Jews." So, one can be circumcised and not be IN covenant because God says several times this covenant is between God, Abraham, and his seed, and those "bought with money" means "servants." These servants were "strangers of the covenant of promise" and circumcised but NOT IN COVENANT for the covenant of promise is with Abraham and his seed. The same thing applies to your Scripture in Ephesians. Look:

11 Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;
12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being
aliens from the commonwealth of Israel,
and strangers from the covenants of promise,
having no hope,
and without God in the world:
13 But now in Christ Jesus
ye who sometimes were far off
are made nigh by the blood of Christ.
Eph. 2:11–13.

These Gentiles are "made NEAR" by the blood of Christ. It doesn't mean IN the covenant of promise which is the Abrahamic Covenant. I can be NEAR the ocean without being IN the ocean. So, make distinction and stop trying to add to the bible. God calls those that add to His word LIARS, and John says "liars do not inherit the kingdom of God."
Stop lying.

and

Galatians 3:14–18 (ESV) — 14 so that in Christ Jesus the blessing of Abraham might come to the Gentiles, so that we might receive the promised Spirit through faith. 15 To give a human example, brothers: even with a man-made covenant, no one annuls it or adds to it once it has been ratified. 16 Now the promises were made to Abraham and to his offspring. It does not say, “And to offsprings,” referring to many, but referring to one, “And to your offspring,” who is Christ. 17 This is what I mean: the law, which came 430 years afterward, does not annul a covenant previously ratified by God, so as to make the promise void. 18 For if the inheritance comes by the law, it no longer comes by promise; but God gave it to Abraham by a promise.

Again, Saul is talking about THE BLESSINGS of Abraham NOT BEING IN covenant. Anyone who can read can see this.

those promises were not annulled by the law

I agree.
But the Law/Torah contains its own promises, such as "honoring your parents" which is the first commandment "with promise."

 

[synergy]

Yes, I see that, but God doesn't say they are IN covenant, only that they are not strangers to the covenant which means they are "near" and can refer to receiving the "blessings of covenant" without being IN covenant. This also occurred with Abraham's household in Genesis 17. These individuals were circumcised but God doesn't say their circumcision means they are IN covenant because God is clear and He says several times that His covenant is between "God," "thee" (Abraham), and "his seed" and the stranger, servant, even the sojourner that stayed with Abraham. Take notice:

10 This is my covenant, which ye shall keep, between me and you and thy seed after thee; Every man child among you shall be circumcised.
11 And ye shall circumcise the flesh of your foreskin; and it shall be a token of the covenant betwixt me and you.
12 And he that is eight days old shall be circumcised among you, every man child in your generations, he that is born in the house, or bought with money of any stranger, which is not of thy seed.
13 He that is born in thy house, and he that is bought with thy money, must needs be circumcised: and my covenant shall be in your flesh for an everlasting covenant.
Gen. 17:9–13.

God is saying the covenant is between Him, Abraham, and his seed. His seed down through the generations are the twelve tribes of the sons of Jacob who are now called the "Jews." So, one can be circumcised and not be IN covenant because God says several times this covenant is between God, Abraham, and his seed, and those "bought with money" means "servants." These servants were "strangers of the covenant of promise" and circumcised but NOT IN COVENANT for the covenant of promise is with Abraham and his seed. The same thing applies to your Scripture in Ephesians. Look:

11 Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;
12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being
aliens from the commonwealth of Israel,
and strangers from the covenants of promise,
having no hope,
and without God in the world:
13 But now in Christ Jesus
ye who sometimes were far off
are made nigh by the blood of Christ.
Eph. 2:11–13.

These Gentiles are "made NEAR" by the blood of Christ. It doesn't mean IN the covenant of promise which is the Abrahamic Covenant. I can be NEAR the ocean without being IN the ocean. So, make distinction and stop trying to add to the bible. God calls those that add to His word LIARS, and John says "liars do not inherit the kingdom of God."
Stop lying.

Again, Saul is talking about THE BLESSINGS of Abraham NOT BEING IN covenant. Anyone who can read can see this.

I agree.
But the Law/Torah contains its own promises, such as "honoring your parents" which is the first commandment "with promise."

The Book of Hebrews digs even deeper into the question of Covenants.

Heb 7:22: by so much was Jesus made a surety of a better covenant.
Heb 8:6: But now He has obtained a more excellent ministry, by so much He is also the Mediator of a better covenant, which was built upon better promises.
Heb 8:13: In that He says, A new covenant, He has made the first one old. Now that which decays and becomes old is ready to vanish away.

May you and your "ready to vanish away", "decays" covenant be happy with each together. I'll stick with the "better" one.

 

[jeremiah1five]

If a person is born again, then they have BELIEVED,. by FAITH. (Faith in Christ).

It is not faith IN Christ, but Christ's faith. His faith is what God honored and through which anyone is saved. Dead men before conversion do not have faith. Our faith is like filthy rags. When Lazarus was DEAD in the grave Jesus prayed to the Father and it was Jesus' faith God honored, not Lazarus' faith because he didn't have faith. He was dead in trespasses and sin.

Abraham is the father of our FAITH... said Paul the Apostle.

And Abraham is the father of the Hebrew/Jewish people.
Abraham is NOT the father of the Gentiles because Gentiles do not come from his seed.
So, if Abraham is the father of "our faith" and Abraham is the father of the Hebrew/Jewish people, then "our faith" means mean Jewish believers.

 

[Behold]

It is not faith IN Christ, but Christ's faith.

Jesus said "all that believe in me"..

Calvin said....>"wrong Jesus....its all who you force to believe" Its "all who are pre-destined to be forced to believe"...

So Reader..., you get to decide who is the LIAR.

(Use your free will to decide", as that is on you.

 

[Behold]

Abraham is NOT the father of the Gentiles because Gentiles do not come from his seed.

Paul said that you need to purchase a New Testament and stop preaching your Cult's theology.

-
New International Version
Therefore, the promise comes by faith, so that it may be by grace and may be guaranteed to all Abraham’s offspring—not only to those who are of the law but also to those who have the faith of Abraham. He is the father of us all.

New Living Translation
So the promise is received by faith. It is given as a free gift. And we are all certain to receive it, whether or not we live according to the law of Moses, if we have faith like Abraham’s. For Abraham is the father of all who believe.

English Standard Version
That is why it depends on faith, in order that the promise may rest on grace and be guaranteed to all his offspring—not only to the adherent of the law but also to the one who shares the faith of Abraham, who is the father of us all,

Berean Standard Bible
Therefore, the promise comes by faith, so that it may rest on grace and may be guaranteed to all Abraham’s offspring—not only to those who are of the law, but also to those who are of the faith of Abraham. He is the father of us all.

Berean Literal Bible
Therefore it is of faith, that it may be according to grace, for the promise to be sure to all the seed, not only to that of the Law, but also to that of the faith of Abraham, who is the father of us of all--

King James Bible
Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all,

New King James Version
Therefore it is of faith that it might be according to grace, so that the promise might be sure to all the seed, not only to those who are of the law, but also to those who are of the faith of Abraham, who is the father of us all

New American Standard Bible
For this reason it is by faith, in order that it may be in accordance with grace, so that the promise will be guaranteed to all the descendants, not only to those who are of the Law, but also to those who are of the faith of Abraham, who is the father of us all,

NASB 1995
For this reason it is by faith, in order that it may be in accordance with grace, so that the promise will be guaranteed to all the descendants, not only to those who are of the Law, but also to those who are of the faith of Abraham, who is the father of us all,

NASB 1977
For this reason it is by faith, that it might be in accordance with grace, in order that the promise may be certain to all the descendants, not only to those who are of the Law, but also to those who are of the faith of Abraham, who is the father of us all,