jeremiah1five
Well-known member
When I became a born-again Christian back in the summer of 1977 there was one thing I learned was the holy grail of biblical Christianity and that was we read and studied the bible (mine was the KJV) in order to "take out" what was written and not add our own preconceived notions about what I thought the bible should say over what it actually does say. Here we are some 21 centuries from the time Jesus of Nazareth walked the Holy Land and what do we have available to us if not countless commentaries, devotionals, this Greek and Hebrew linguist or that one being churched out yearly from Cambridge or Oxford, Harvard or Yale or some other ivy-league university where thousands of students graduated summa cum laude or some other arrogant educational medal of honor. Exactly how much confusion is out there in our churches when at least twenty English versions of the bible are the purchase price in the hand of a fool in a regular Gentile church every Sunday morning - thank you, Westcott & Hort!
God told Isaiah, "Come now, and let us reason together" and then the discussion turns on the subject of salvation and things like sin that were 'scarlet becoming white as snow, a salvation Jesus said, is "of the Jews!" Yet can we actually reason with God? Well, He did say that, didn't He? It's right there in black and white. Wow! So, what else does the bible say about not only salvation, but the things that God reveals about stuff we could not readily know about, things like a Holy Spirit, who that is and what's all that about? Did Jesus really turn water into wine in a moment of time or did He use a bag of rotten fruit, lots of sugar, and a 'kicker' to get things fermenting which took about a week to make. Did Zaccheus climb a tree because he was of short stature and couldn't see above people's heads, or was it that Jesus was short and climbing a tree was the best way to see a 5' 5" Messiah? Does all the bible interpretation turn on a dime or do we just follow what others wrote and then THAT becomes what we believe about this "so-great salvation" especially when it comes to who God really gave it to and how are we affected by it today? Who's really our teacher of the Holy Scripture? Is it the Holy Spirit of Truth, or some theologian's recently published work claiming this and that about what the bible says and why we should trust their work of twenty years in the making against what the bible actually says? Are we students of the bible and take out our theology from the bible and become identified as men of God, or do we keep adding newly published books to our libraries by people claiming to be professors of biblical knowledge and regurgitate the things they say in their books as 'gospel' and be identified as man of men?
Did our pastors teach us under the anointing truth revealed under the Spirit's anointing or is he/she only regurgitating a new addition from his library or something he found online on the internet we didn't know about that ticked his or her ears?
OK. Enough lead up commentary. What is it that's REALLY on my mind?
Call me old school (I am) but bible study is supposed to about be our looking at the text of our translations, having a trustworthy Hebrew and Greek linguist (Strong's) and after prayerful consideration of what we read allow the Holy Spirit of Truth to reveal to us things we read from the text to "take out" what is written there and using the function of our brains to reason out what's before us to come to the knowledge of the truth. After 21 centuries since the advent of Israel's Messiah and the Holy Spirit of Promise promised to Israel, I have come to the understanding today - not tomorrow, for who knows what the Spirit will bring to my understanding tomorrow when I am living in today? - there are reasonable conclusions I've reached not from a commentary but as a student of the Scripture under the anointing. Let's talk about history. Hebrew history. The Hebrew history that is recorded in the bible that is there available to any born-again believer who's been touched by the Savior's hand directing what it is I am supposed to believe about this "so-great salvation" and why. Am I at liberty to add to the bible things that are not in the text or am I disciplined (disciple) to only "take out" from the text things that are written there without adding, subtracting, or changing the text to make it say what I want it to say, and to be in compliance to what some theologian has told me it says minus my own knocking, searching, and asking "Lord, teach me thy Word" to be taught of God instead of leaning on my own understanding in the vanity of my mind. The big question in front of me is this: Does God have salvation covenant with non-Hebrew Gentiles as He has with the Hebrew people recorded in my bible? What does the bible say about this question, and what does the bible NOT say about answering this question? Let me see if I can put this in perspective. And again, it's about "taking out" what's written in the bible rather than my adding to the bible things that just are not there.
In Genesis we have three chapters (12, 15, and 17) that record the particulars of the Abraham Covenant. We readily see that God identifies Abram as a Hebrew (Gen. 14:13), which means he is born into the family line of Eber, and in the following chapters see God making covenant with Abram and changing his name to Abraham concludes a covenant in which God promises several things and only requiring one thing from Abraham and his seed and that one thing God requires that will set them apart from the rest of the Adamic population is circumcision of the flesh. The foreskin has to go. Everyone in Abraham's household, servants, Abraham himself, even travelers among Abraham are told to circumcise themselves which would be the sign of this covenant God makes with Abraham and the indication from God that the covenant will pass to Abraham's miracle child named Isaac, and from him to Jacob, one of two recorded sons of Isaac (the other son being Esau.) And then another miraculous thing occurs. Jacob has twelve sons born to him of four wives and one daughter. These twelve sons in time will come to be known as Abraham's seed and twelve tribes of Jacob also known as the children of Israel (Israel, since God changed Jacob's name and he became next in line to inherit the covenant promises from his father, Isaac.)
In the book of Exodus and the rest of the Pentateuch (Leviticus, Numbers, Deuteronomy) God extends His covenant with Abraham to the children of Jacob/Israel. Centuries later, God sends a prophet with a promise to provide a New Covenant that includes the House of Israel (indicating the ten northern kingdom tribes), and the House of Judah (indicating the two southern kingdom tribes), a covenant that will be fulfilled in the body and blood of God's very own Son named Jesus bar Joseph. Jesus is the literal fulfillment of a promise God made to the serpent that from the seed of the woman God will raise up kin who would crush the head of the serpent and restore the Name of God to His people of choice and bring in their complete restoration back to God which was once severed due to the disobedience of one man - Adam.
The bottom line is that God made covenant with Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, and with Jacob's descendants the children of Israel. And for the past year since asking this one question no one here has been able to provide the answer from the Hebrew Scripture of Law, Psalms, and Prophets God making any kind of covenant with non-Hebrew Gentiles, one that addresses their protection, their prospering, their defense, and even their salvation. If our instruction as believers is to "take out" our doctrine from the Scripture and there is no Gentile covenant in the Scripture, then where is all this "Gentiles are in the Hebrew covenants" talk coming from? If you can't show me in the Hebrew Scripture a Gentile covenant between God and non-Hebrews, then there is nothing to "take out" that we can claim to be doctrine from Scripture if there is no Gentile covenant in Scripture to "take out" in the first place. This belief of Gentiles in covenant with God has to be the biggest lie and self-deception I know in and among humanity that has carried over since the destruction of the Second Jewish Temple ending the Second Temple era. Where did this false idea of a Gentile covenant come from and why has it propagated itself for nearly 1900 years? I believe I know the answer. But because my answer does not come from a commentary or some academic publishing his or her thesis on the subject from a higher learning educational facility I am one who is teaching a lie and I have been accused of such but STILL no one has been able from Scripture to show me a Gentile covenant between God and non-Hebrew Gentiles. What they do instead because there is no such Scripture proving that is to take the New Covenant writings of Peter, Saul, etc., to misinterpret their statements in their letters to say Gentiles are in the Abraham covenant using Galatians 3:28-29 as their proof of covenant between God and non-Hebrew Gentiles. What they do is ADD Gentiles to the covenants by misinterpreting certain statements found in Saul's letters. It doesn't occur to them that the covenants made by God are between Him and Abraham and his seed and that if one is born-again like the three thousand Jews in Acts 2 records, that since there is no Gentile covenant found in the Hebrew Scripture that such a born-again person must have at least ONE Hebrew parent in their ancestry so that Abraham's DNA has filtered down to them today and evidence that if you are a presumed Gentile grown up in American Greek/Latin/Anglican culture, that this is proof that Gentiles are in one of the covenants because God does not save without a covenant. They erroneously put one plus one together to get five!
And STILL no one has proven to me a Scripture of God making covenant - any kind of covenant - in which He's promised as in the Mosaic Covenant), to save presumed Gentiles even though there is no covenant indicated in Hebrew Scripture of God promising to save Gentiles at all.
Where's your proof, O Gentile man?? Where's your covenant? There is nothing in the Hebrew Scripture to "take out" that proves non-Hebrews are in the Hebrew covenant at all and what you believe is a lie that breaks Scripture, yes, violates it, but to the Gentile that doesn't matter. They will continue to step on God's holy word and add things to a closed text things that are not originally there in the first place. It takes a mutilation and twisting of Saul's words nearly 3,500 years after the Hebrew Scripture is closed to come up with a theology that adds Gentiles into the Abrahamic Covenant using writings that Gentiles themselves have put together to use as their proof based upon Saul's letters to Jewish Christians 2,000 years ago that Gentiles are in the Abraham Covenant and are enjoying everything in that covenant and have made it apply to them when there is still no Scripture proof! But it is a lie and you, Gentile, are still dead in trespasses and sin and there is nothing to save you. You got nothing coming to you of God.
God told Isaiah, "Come now, and let us reason together" and then the discussion turns on the subject of salvation and things like sin that were 'scarlet becoming white as snow, a salvation Jesus said, is "of the Jews!" Yet can we actually reason with God? Well, He did say that, didn't He? It's right there in black and white. Wow! So, what else does the bible say about not only salvation, but the things that God reveals about stuff we could not readily know about, things like a Holy Spirit, who that is and what's all that about? Did Jesus really turn water into wine in a moment of time or did He use a bag of rotten fruit, lots of sugar, and a 'kicker' to get things fermenting which took about a week to make. Did Zaccheus climb a tree because he was of short stature and couldn't see above people's heads, or was it that Jesus was short and climbing a tree was the best way to see a 5' 5" Messiah? Does all the bible interpretation turn on a dime or do we just follow what others wrote and then THAT becomes what we believe about this "so-great salvation" especially when it comes to who God really gave it to and how are we affected by it today? Who's really our teacher of the Holy Scripture? Is it the Holy Spirit of Truth, or some theologian's recently published work claiming this and that about what the bible says and why we should trust their work of twenty years in the making against what the bible actually says? Are we students of the bible and take out our theology from the bible and become identified as men of God, or do we keep adding newly published books to our libraries by people claiming to be professors of biblical knowledge and regurgitate the things they say in their books as 'gospel' and be identified as man of men?
Did our pastors teach us under the anointing truth revealed under the Spirit's anointing or is he/she only regurgitating a new addition from his library or something he found online on the internet we didn't know about that ticked his or her ears?
OK. Enough lead up commentary. What is it that's REALLY on my mind?
Call me old school (I am) but bible study is supposed to about be our looking at the text of our translations, having a trustworthy Hebrew and Greek linguist (Strong's) and after prayerful consideration of what we read allow the Holy Spirit of Truth to reveal to us things we read from the text to "take out" what is written there and using the function of our brains to reason out what's before us to come to the knowledge of the truth. After 21 centuries since the advent of Israel's Messiah and the Holy Spirit of Promise promised to Israel, I have come to the understanding today - not tomorrow, for who knows what the Spirit will bring to my understanding tomorrow when I am living in today? - there are reasonable conclusions I've reached not from a commentary but as a student of the Scripture under the anointing. Let's talk about history. Hebrew history. The Hebrew history that is recorded in the bible that is there available to any born-again believer who's been touched by the Savior's hand directing what it is I am supposed to believe about this "so-great salvation" and why. Am I at liberty to add to the bible things that are not in the text or am I disciplined (disciple) to only "take out" from the text things that are written there without adding, subtracting, or changing the text to make it say what I want it to say, and to be in compliance to what some theologian has told me it says minus my own knocking, searching, and asking "Lord, teach me thy Word" to be taught of God instead of leaning on my own understanding in the vanity of my mind. The big question in front of me is this: Does God have salvation covenant with non-Hebrew Gentiles as He has with the Hebrew people recorded in my bible? What does the bible say about this question, and what does the bible NOT say about answering this question? Let me see if I can put this in perspective. And again, it's about "taking out" what's written in the bible rather than my adding to the bible things that just are not there.
In Genesis we have three chapters (12, 15, and 17) that record the particulars of the Abraham Covenant. We readily see that God identifies Abram as a Hebrew (Gen. 14:13), which means he is born into the family line of Eber, and in the following chapters see God making covenant with Abram and changing his name to Abraham concludes a covenant in which God promises several things and only requiring one thing from Abraham and his seed and that one thing God requires that will set them apart from the rest of the Adamic population is circumcision of the flesh. The foreskin has to go. Everyone in Abraham's household, servants, Abraham himself, even travelers among Abraham are told to circumcise themselves which would be the sign of this covenant God makes with Abraham and the indication from God that the covenant will pass to Abraham's miracle child named Isaac, and from him to Jacob, one of two recorded sons of Isaac (the other son being Esau.) And then another miraculous thing occurs. Jacob has twelve sons born to him of four wives and one daughter. These twelve sons in time will come to be known as Abraham's seed and twelve tribes of Jacob also known as the children of Israel (Israel, since God changed Jacob's name and he became next in line to inherit the covenant promises from his father, Isaac.)
In the book of Exodus and the rest of the Pentateuch (Leviticus, Numbers, Deuteronomy) God extends His covenant with Abraham to the children of Jacob/Israel. Centuries later, God sends a prophet with a promise to provide a New Covenant that includes the House of Israel (indicating the ten northern kingdom tribes), and the House of Judah (indicating the two southern kingdom tribes), a covenant that will be fulfilled in the body and blood of God's very own Son named Jesus bar Joseph. Jesus is the literal fulfillment of a promise God made to the serpent that from the seed of the woman God will raise up kin who would crush the head of the serpent and restore the Name of God to His people of choice and bring in their complete restoration back to God which was once severed due to the disobedience of one man - Adam.
The bottom line is that God made covenant with Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, and with Jacob's descendants the children of Israel. And for the past year since asking this one question no one here has been able to provide the answer from the Hebrew Scripture of Law, Psalms, and Prophets God making any kind of covenant with non-Hebrew Gentiles, one that addresses their protection, their prospering, their defense, and even their salvation. If our instruction as believers is to "take out" our doctrine from the Scripture and there is no Gentile covenant in the Scripture, then where is all this "Gentiles are in the Hebrew covenants" talk coming from? If you can't show me in the Hebrew Scripture a Gentile covenant between God and non-Hebrews, then there is nothing to "take out" that we can claim to be doctrine from Scripture if there is no Gentile covenant in Scripture to "take out" in the first place. This belief of Gentiles in covenant with God has to be the biggest lie and self-deception I know in and among humanity that has carried over since the destruction of the Second Jewish Temple ending the Second Temple era. Where did this false idea of a Gentile covenant come from and why has it propagated itself for nearly 1900 years? I believe I know the answer. But because my answer does not come from a commentary or some academic publishing his or her thesis on the subject from a higher learning educational facility I am one who is teaching a lie and I have been accused of such but STILL no one has been able from Scripture to show me a Gentile covenant between God and non-Hebrew Gentiles. What they do instead because there is no such Scripture proving that is to take the New Covenant writings of Peter, Saul, etc., to misinterpret their statements in their letters to say Gentiles are in the Abraham covenant using Galatians 3:28-29 as their proof of covenant between God and non-Hebrew Gentiles. What they do is ADD Gentiles to the covenants by misinterpreting certain statements found in Saul's letters. It doesn't occur to them that the covenants made by God are between Him and Abraham and his seed and that if one is born-again like the three thousand Jews in Acts 2 records, that since there is no Gentile covenant found in the Hebrew Scripture that such a born-again person must have at least ONE Hebrew parent in their ancestry so that Abraham's DNA has filtered down to them today and evidence that if you are a presumed Gentile grown up in American Greek/Latin/Anglican culture, that this is proof that Gentiles are in one of the covenants because God does not save without a covenant. They erroneously put one plus one together to get five!
And STILL no one has proven to me a Scripture of God making covenant - any kind of covenant - in which He's promised as in the Mosaic Covenant), to save presumed Gentiles even though there is no covenant indicated in Hebrew Scripture of God promising to save Gentiles at all.
Where's your proof, O Gentile man?? Where's your covenant? There is nothing in the Hebrew Scripture to "take out" that proves non-Hebrews are in the Hebrew covenant at all and what you believe is a lie that breaks Scripture, yes, violates it, but to the Gentile that doesn't matter. They will continue to step on God's holy word and add things to a closed text things that are not originally there in the first place. It takes a mutilation and twisting of Saul's words nearly 3,500 years after the Hebrew Scripture is closed to come up with a theology that adds Gentiles into the Abrahamic Covenant using writings that Gentiles themselves have put together to use as their proof based upon Saul's letters to Jewish Christians 2,000 years ago that Gentiles are in the Abraham Covenant and are enjoying everything in that covenant and have made it apply to them when there is still no Scripture proof! But it is a lie and you, Gentile, are still dead in trespasses and sin and there is nothing to save you. You got nothing coming to you of God.
YIKES!
YIKES!.
YIKES!
