Just because a gentile becomes Born-Again......

[john]

NOT GRACE - to the Gentiles.

Romans 11:12-14

King James Version

​

12 Now if the fall of them be the riches of the world, and the diminishing of them the riches of the Gentiles; how much more their fulness?
13 For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify mine office:
14 If by any means I may provoke to emulation them which are my flesh, and might save some of them. you keep denying scripture are you even saved ?

 

[koberstein]

Here's an excellent educational and historical presentation of the Septuagint by Prof James Aitken:

Thanks!

 

[brightfame52]

not at all you are projecting- its your flesh at work with the text.

If you agree with that poster, you also trusting in the flesh, which Im not surprised

 

[e v e]

There will be no "Eden paradise." But there will be the Promised Land and the kingdom of heaven and New Jerusalem that comes down from out of heaven.

eden paradise is the promised land

and the new creation.

 

[koberstein]

eden paradise is the promised land

and the new creation.

Edit rule violation

 

[e v e]

Here's an excellent educational and historical presentation of the Septuagint by Prof James Aitken:

the septuagint is sorcery.

 

[synergy]

the septuagint is sorcery.

That which assisted Christianity to take root in the Eastern Roman Empire is "sorcery"?

The Septuagint was the OT of the Early Christian Church. Why would you say that is "sorcery"?

That which Apostles quoted from to form the New Testament is "sorcery"?

etc....

 

[e v e]

That which assisted Christianity to take root in the Eastern Roman Empire is "sorcery"?

The Septuagint was the OT of the Early Christian Church. Why would you say that is "sorcery"?

That which Apostles quoted from to form the New Testament is "sorcery"?

etc....

I am sorry I did not explain... but my basis for that is that as we know (and of course if you are eastern orthodox you see things differently) is that Ptolemy II was not Christian (though perhaps politically playing that card) nor chose the most christian scribes to copy the OT texts for his library... and yes I could say a lot more but here is a cliff note summary of where to look + maybe with Aristea's letter. We can also note the iconography of the statuary all around there, and see quite a bit he based on the Greek gods as well, to memorialize himself ...and his coronation was entirely pagan... so, he was overseeing some scribes, who he vetted... and as we know one can vet to filter out whoever is too christian. I know this in academia, when in the past applying for jobs and not being woke, yet all the interview questions for the job being questions to determine one's mindset. history in this world, in that sense, is not so innocent nor can be idealized....

 

[e v e]

That which assisted Christianity to take root in the Eastern Roman Empire is "sorcery"?

The Septuagint was the OT of the Early Christian Church. Why would you say that is "sorcery"?

That which Apostles quoted from to form the New Testament is "sorcery"?

etc....

I thought they formed their thoughts that later became the new testament from what Christ said to them directly, He being our Deity.

 

[synergy]

I thought they formed their thoughts that later became the new testament from what Christ said to them directly, He being our Deity.

The Apostles quoted extensively from the Septuagint so as to show that the Christianity that they were promoting was not a spurious baseless belief that came out of left field, but instead had a solid footing in the OT, namely the Septuagint.

Many prophesies in the Septuagint, like the Virgin birth, were explicitly mentioned by the Apostles in their Epistles.

Helenic Jews used their copies of the Septuagint to fact check Paul's claims about the Word of God. And in that process, being convinced of the Gospel, those Jews converted to Christianity. The Septuagint was instrumental in the ignition of Christianity within the Eastern Empire.

I focus on what the Apostles did and say, not on anything Aristea or Ptolemy believed. I hope you will reconsider based on what the Apostles supported, and they did support the Septuagint.

 

[jeremiah1five]

Your comments fly in the face of Eph 2:11-13. Stop embarrassing yourself.

11 Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;

OK. Saul is talking about proselytes and God-Fearers.

12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:
Eph 2:11–12.

This "covenant of promise" does not refer to any of the Jewish covenants. The word "promise" merely means an "announcement" or "assurance." The word is "epangelia" and it is compound closely resembling the Greek word for "evangelist." So, what is a covenant/contract of announcement? This surely differs from anything that is a covenant such as Abrahamic and Mosaic or New Covenant. And Saul connects nothing to any of the Jewish covenants. He's not even talking about the Jewish covenants.

I would suggest that you do not scoff at Eph 2:11-13.

That's what they were before they were "brought near by the blood of Christ". You would understand that if you did read Eph 2:11-13 and you do understand English.

13 But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.
14 For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us; 15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;
Eph 2:12–15.

As you can see there is no mention of any of the Jewish covenants. But Saul does say that we are made IN CHRIST, or in the spirit. not two but one new man. This has nothing to do with any of the Jewish covenants and Saul, being a rabbi who knows the Hebrew Scriptures knows that by being a Christian makes us one with Christ not one with the Jewish covenants. You have to stay in context. Adding to the bible things that are not there Proverbs 30:6 says makes you a liar. So, stop lying. Stop adding to the bible things that are not there. But wait. I know Constantinian Gentile indoctrination pushes you to that end because of the false theology it has developed within itself, and it does that because once Gentiles unmoored true, biblical Christianity from its Hebrew roots it became a new and different religion that has no connection to the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. All Hebrew Scripture is only understood and re-interpreted with a Gentile mindset and culture that is far removed from Hebrew history and culture it is difficult to understand Hebrew Scripture and history and culture without a Jewish mindset. This only leads to error and heresy.

 

[jeremiah1five]

You cant stop trusting in the flesh

And I do that how?

 

[jeremiah1five]

2nd Corinthians 5:17 john 3:3 anything else?

OK. I know what it means. How do you understand it?
And please, don't give me the Gentile textbook answer.
Do some original thinking instead of regurgitating Gentile propaganda.

 

[brightfame52]

And I do that how?

Its really nothing you have the ability to do.

 

[Administrator]

Heresy again. Where did this person come from?

This software comes with an Ignore feature. I suggest you put her on ignore and just leave her alone. That way there's no harm and no foul. It's pretty easy really.

 

[koberstein]

This software comes with an Ignore feature. I suggest you put her on ignore and just leave her alone. That way there's no harm and no foul. It's pretty easy really.

Ok I will do that. Thanks

 

[e v e]

I am sorry I did not explain... but my basis for that is that as we know (and of course if you are eastern orthodox you see things differently) is that Ptolemy II was not Christian (though perhaps politically playing that card) nor chose the most christian scribes to copy the OT texts for his library... and yes I could say a lot more but here is a cliff note summary of where to look + maybe with Aristea's letter. We can also note the iconography of the statuary all around there, and see quite a bit he based on the Greek gods as well, to memorialize himself ...and his coronation was entirely pagan... so, he was overseeing some scribes, who he vetted... and as we know one can vet to filter out whoever is too christian. I know this in academia, when in the past applying for jobs and not being woke, yet all the interview questions for the job being questions to determine one's mindset. history in this world, in that sense, is not so innocent nor can be idealized....

Since I view OT people as Christian, who met Christ, such as moses, then I said what I said about the scribes - who would have been hebrews at least nominally.

 

[synergy]

11 Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;

OK. Saul is talking about proselytes and God-Fearers.

12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:
Eph 2:11–12.

This "covenant of promise" does not refer to any of the Jewish covenants. The word "promise" merely means an "announcement" or "assurance." The word is "epangelia" and it is compound closely resembling the Greek word for "evangelist." So, what is a covenant/contract of announcement? This surely differs from anything that is a covenant such as Abrahamic and Mosaic or New Covenant. And Saul connects nothing to any of the Jewish covenants. He's not even talking about the Jewish covenants.

13 But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.
14 For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us; 15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;
Eph 2:12–15.

As you can see there is no mention of any of the Jewish covenants. But Saul does say that we are made IN CHRIST, or in the spirit. not two but one new man. This has nothing to do with any of the Jewish covenants and Saul, being a rabbi who knows the Hebrew Scriptures knows that by being a Christian makes us one with Christ not one with the Jewish covenants. You have to stay in context. Adding to the bible things that are not there Proverbs 30:6 says makes you a liar. So, stop lying. Stop adding to the bible things that are not there. But wait. I know Constantinian Gentile indoctrination pushes you to that end because of the false theology it has developed within itself, and it does that because once Gentiles unmoored true, biblical Christianity from its Hebrew roots it became a new and different religion that has no connection to the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. All Hebrew Scripture is only understood and re-interpreted with a Gentile mindset and culture that is far removed from Hebrew history and culture it is difficult to understand Hebrew Scripture and history and culture without a Jewish mindset. This only leads to error and heresy.

The subject I'm discussing with you is that Paul's audience in Ephesus is Gentiles. I wasn't talking about Jewish Covenants. I know that it's really tough for Judaizers to stay on subject but could you do me the courtesy of at least staying on subject? Is that too much to ask for?

Since you offered nothing to the contrary, it is a fact that Paul's audience at Ephesus is in fact Gentiles plus nothing.

 

[john]

OK. I know what it means. How do you understand it?
And please, don't give me the Gentile textbook answer.
Do some original thinking instead of regurgitating Gentile propaganda.

psst one last thing WHOSOEVER SHALL CALL UPON THE NAME OF THE lord SHALL BE SAVED ! romans 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
your gentile theology is wrong . the Jewish nation was cut out of the vine and the gentiles nations grafted in . the Jew just like anyone else must be born again from above its a spiritual birth called regeneration , nationality has Nothing to do with it.. its a heart matter romans 10:10 .


i am not responding to your junk theology

pay real close attention to the next set of scripture.

Galatians 1:8-9

King James Version

​

8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.
9 As we said before, so say I now again, if any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.

your treading on thin ice and no i am not going to explain it .you would reject it

 

[jeremiah1five]

Romans 11:12-14​

​

King James Version​

​

​

12 Now if the fall of them be the riches of the world, and the diminishing of them the riches of the Gentiles; how much more their fulness?
13 For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify mine office:
14 If by any means I may provoke to emulation them which are my flesh, and might save some of them. you keep denying scripture are you even saved ?

Since Gentile proselytes and Gentile God-Fearers were both groups obedient to the Torah and were received as observant, converted Gentiles, they were not accepted as Jews/Hebrew nor were they accepted as being in any Hebrew/Jewish covenant for the Jews knew their Scripture that God made covenant with Abram the Hebrew and his seed and they knew Gentiles do not come from the loins or the seed of Abraham and thus were NOT in any Hebrew/Jewish covenant. They were received as receiving the blessings of being a Israeli citizen (common-WEALTH) and were in synagogue every sabbath and more having been witnessed of Israel's Messiah when the Jews in synagogue were witnessed the same time. They are the Gentiles Saul was apostle to and unless the context specifically identifies non-commonwealth Gentiles (Roman, Barbarian, Greek, etc.), then it is speaking of proselytes and God-Fearers.

Yes, I am saved. But I know there were several Gentile groups at the time and do not immediately think Greek, Barbarian, or Roman Gentiles when the context is speaking of proselytes and God-Fearers, Gentiles who were allied with the Jewish nation and citizens of the same. They were in synagogue with the Jews when Jewish Christians returned from the Feast of Harvest (Pentecost) and heard the message of Jesus of Nazareth and Peter's sermon FIRST before Romans, Greeks or barbarians and were first converted to Christ along with other Jews whom the Lord added to His Church. I know how to make a distinction because there is a distinction to be made.

I also know the original covenant is made with Abram the Hebrew and with his seed for only other Hebrews can come from two Hebrew parents after their kind. Gentiles do not come from Hebrew parents, and this is a truism that Gentile Christians are blind to. I also know Scripture records Abraham and Sarah had Ishmael who had twelve prince-sons and that Isaac had Esau who was also the seed of Abraham (grandson) and through both Ishmael and Esau and their descendants became a people still existing today, nations and kings that did indeed "come out of thee" (Abraham) as Scripture records.

Roman, Barbarian, Greek, and other non-Hebrew, non-proselyte and non-God Fearers were converted to Christ but was only a few scattered around the Empire. It was only AFTER the Temple was destroyed that the Times of the Gentiles began, and regular idol-worshiping Gentiles were being saved in higher numbers. But before that, the Church Christ promised to build is according to covenant and prophecy and only Jews were the ones being added to the Church daily in the thousands along with proselytes and God-Fearers for these are the Gentiles most addressed in the NT Gospels and epistles since they heard the message of Christ first along with the Jews in synagogue.