Jesus denied being God

The Jews never found multiple persons of God. You think they did. But they did not. They are correct. You are wrong.
Okay. Among other views of Peterlag, he is calling Jews liars. Then he says I'm wrong for saying that. So he also wants a wall of protection by calling me wrong for pointing out the truth.
For those wishing to hear some Jews discussing the awareness of multiple persons of the Godhead, watch this video. Sorry I am not taking many notes on it. Another source is the book Two Powers in Heaven, by Segal

Here is part of it as found 2 minutes into the video


there's a well-known Jewish scholar in fact he's ... he's one of the leading Scholars of Hebrew Bible Professor Benjamin Sommer, not a Messianic Jew. yeah no no no no no.he's he's one of the leading um Scholars of Hebrew Bible works with intertextuality, very well known in his field. very well respected.anybody that does any work in the Hebrew Bible and to[who?] listen to what he says... he says classic language of trinitarian theology such as μια οὐσία, τρεῖς ὑπόστασις that is (one nature, three persons or one substance, three manifestations),applies perfectly well to examples of the Lord's fluidity in theHebrew Bible and to the fluidity traditions in Canaan and Mesopotamia.

he basically argues that <2:49>the whole notion of the Trinity is not something far into the Hebrew scriptures at all and he uses the word fluidity fluidity and we'll talk about that as we go on
 
The Bible teaches there is one God, the Father, and one Messiah and Lord, Jesus Christ, who is the divinely conceived Son of God. Jesus Christ is the fully human “Son of God” and not “God the Son.” For clarity’s sake, it's helpful to understand what the Trinity is. The orthodox doctrine of the Trinity is that the Father is God, the Son is God, and the Holy Spirit is God, and the three of them are co-equal, co-eternal, and share the same essence and together those three individual “Persons” are one triune God. The doctrine of the Trinity that Jesus is both 100% God and 100% man and that both the divine nature and his human nature live together in his flesh body may be widely believed, but is never stated in the Bible.
Sorry as was shown there are verses which call him God

There are Old Testament passages referencing Jehovah that are stated to be Jesus in the New Testament

The names/titles of Jehovah are applied to Christ in the New Testament
 
Sorry as was shown there are verses which call him God

There are Old Testament passages referencing Jehovah that are stated to be Jesus in the New Testament

The names/titles of Jehovah are applied to Christ in the New Testament
No need to be sorry. I'm still right.
 
Okay. Among other views of Peterlag, he is calling Jews liars. Then he says I'm wrong for saying that. So he also wants a wall of protection by calling me wrong for pointing out the truth.
For those wishing to hear some Jews discussing the awareness of multiple persons of the Godhead, watch this video. Sorry I am not taking many notes on it. Another source is the book Two Powers in Heaven, by Segal

Here is part of it as found 2 minutes into the video
When I say Jews I'm referring to the ones in the Old Testament. Not the trinity people of today.
 
No need to be sorry. I'm still right.
Nope you are in denial

There are verses which call him God

There are Old Testament passages referencing Jehovah that are stated to be Jesus in the New Testament

The names/titles of Jehovah are applied to Christ in the New Testament
 
When I say Jews I'm referring to the ones in the Old Testament. Not the trinity people of today.
Me too. Or the info we have from from Non-Christian Jews as things got shared around the the first-century. So these are the people who wrote either before Christ was incarnated or the traditions recorded later.
 
If anyone comes to Me, and does not hate his own father and mother and wife and children and brothers and sisters, yes, and even his own life, he cannot be My disciple. Luke 14:26

"You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your strength, and with all your mind; ..." Luke 10:27

So Jesus demands the exact same love that we are to give God. Either Jesus is demanding idolatry or He is God. Obviously He is God.
Exactly.
And hate ( miseo ) in that passage means to love less, to esteem less. So if one loves Jesus less than the Father they are actually hating the Son.


miseó: to hate

Original Word: μισέω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: miseó
Phonetic Spelling: (mis-eh'-o)
Definition: to hate
Usage: I hate, detest, love less, esteem less.

HELPS Word-studies

3404 miséō – properly, to detest (on a comparativebasis); hence, denounce; to love someone or something less than someone(something) else, i.e. to renounce one choice in favor of another.

Lk 14:26: "If anyone comes to Me, and does not hate (3404 /miséō, 'love less' than the Lord) his own father and mother and wife and children and brothers and sisters, yes, and even his own life, he cannot be My disciple" (NASU).

[Note the comparative meaning of 3404 (miséō) which centers in moral choice, elevating one value over another.]

to be disinclined to, disfavor, disregard in contrast to preferential treatment (Gn 29:31; Dt 21:15, 16) Mt 6:24; Lk 16:13. τὴν ψυχὴν αὐτοῦ J 12:25 or ἑαυτοῦ Lk 14:26 (cp. the formulation Plut, Mor. 556d οὐδʼ ἐμίσουν ἑαυτούς; on the theme cp. Tyrtaeus [VII B.C.] 8, 5 D.3). Ro 9:13 BDAG


BDAG.
② to be disinclined to, disfavor, disregard in contrast to preferential treatment (Gn 29:31; Dt 21:15, 16) Mt 6:24; Lk 16:13. τὴν ψυχὴν αὐτοῦ J 12:25 or ἑαυτοῦ Lk 14:26 (cp. the formulation Plut, Mor. 556d οὐδʼ ἐμίσουν ἑαυτούς; on the theme cp. Tyrtaeus [VII B.C.] 8, 5 D.3). Ro 9:13 (Mal 1:2f). Perh. 2 Cl 6:6 (s. 1b). (JDenney, The Word ‘Hate’ in Lk 14:26: ET 21, 1910, 41f; WBleibtreu, Paradoxe Aussprüche Jesu: Theol. Arbeiten aus d. wissensch. Prediger-Verein d. Rheinprovinz, new ser. 20, 24, 15–35; RSockman, The Paradoxes of J. ’36).—ACarr, The Mng. of ‘Hatred’ in the NT: Exp. 6th ser., 12, 1905, 153–60.—DELG. M-M. EDNT. TW.

And here is a Greek Scholar/Teacher Robert Mounce

I loved, but Esau I hated” (Mal 1:2–3). This should not be interpreted to mean that God actually hated Esau. The strong contrast is a Semitic idiom that heightens the comparison by stating it in absolute terms. 17

Robert H. Mounce, Romans, vol. 27, The New American Commentary (Nashville: Broadman & Holman Publishers, 1995), 198–199.

Berkeley softens the contrast translating, “To Jacob I was drawn, but Esau I repudiated” (the NRSV has “chose” and “rejected”). In discussing the “hatred” of God, Michel comments that it “is not so much an emotion as a rejection in will and deed” (TDNT 4.687).

Robert H. Mounce, Romans, vol. 27, The New American Commentary (Nashville: Broadman & Holman Publishers, 1995).

Here are more renown Scholars

Esau I hated. I.e., “loved less,” according to an ancient Near Eastern hyperbole. It expresses the lack of gratuitous election of Esau and the Edomites (Idumaeans). See Gen 29:30–31: “he loved Rachel more than Leah …; when the Lord saw that Leah was hated …”; cf. Deut 21:15–17; compare Luke 14:26 (“hate”) with Matt 10:37 (“love more”). There is no hint here of predestination to “grace” or “glory” of an individual; it is an expression of the choice of corporate Israel over corporate Edom.

Joseph A. Fitzmyer S.J., Romans: A New Translation with Introduction and Commentary, vol. 33, Anchor Yale Bible (New Haven; London: Yale University Press, 2008), 563.

13. Characteristically Paul backs up his argument with a quotation from Scripture, this one from Malachi 1:2–3: “Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated.” Two questions are important here: Is Paul referring to nations or individuals? and What is meant by hated? As to the first, we have just seen that the Genesis passage refers primarily to nations and we would expect that to continue here. That this is the case seems clear from what Malachi writes about Esau: “Esau I have hated, and I have turned his mountains into a wasteland and left his inheritance to the desert jackals” (Mal. 1:3). Both in Genesis and Malachi the reference is clearly to nations, and we should accept this as Paul’s meaning accordingly.

The meaning of hated is a different kind of problem. There is a difficulty in that Scripture speaks of a love of God for the whole world (John 3:16) and the meaning of “God is love” (1 John 4:8, 16) is surely that God loves, quite irrespective of merit or demerit in the beloved. Specifically he is said to love sinners (Rom. 5:8). It is also true that in Scripture there are cases where “hate” seems clearly to mean “love less” (e.g., Gen. 29:31, 33; Deut. 21:15; Matt. 6:24; Luke 14:26; John 12:25). Many find this an acceptable solution here: God loved Esau (and the nation Edom) less than he loved Jacob (and Israel). But it is perhaps more likely that like Calvin we should understand the expression in the sense “reject” over against “accept”. He explains the passage thus: “I chose Jacob and rejected Esau, induced to this course by my mercy alone, and not by any worthiness in his works.… I had rejected the Edomites.…” This accords with the stress throughout this passage on the thought of election for service. God chose Israel for this role; he did not so choose Edom. Leon Morris, The Epistle to the Romans,

hope this helps !!!
 
Me too. Or the info we have from from Non-Christian Jews as things got shared around the the first-century. So these are the people who wrote either before Christ was incarnated or the traditions recorded later.
I believe the Bible is heavenly inspired by God and so I will only look at what is written in that. Not what people say about it.
 
I believe the Bible is heavenly inspired by God and so I will only look at what is written in that. Not what people say about it.
that is foolish too since the reader has his own bias and difficulties. There are plenty of passages that you can misunderstand due to failure to take guidelines from other people. Christianity is a community. It is not people going off on their own and getting unique interpretations. Paul warns against that. If you find something unique, develop the argument and if not accepted, you better be really cautious in accepting it yourself.
 
I believe the Bible is heavenly inspired by God and so I will only look at what is written in that. Not what people say about it.
If that is true, you should believe in the deity of Christ as all the first Christians were Jews who attributed to Jesus the Acts of Jehovah
 
Matthew 19:17: There's only two possibilities as to what Jesus is saying: Either He is admitting that He is not good and not God, or else He is admitting that He is good and therefore He is God. It doesn't take a rocket scientist.

Obviously the rich man did not believe He was God. If he did, he would not have addressed him, "Good Teacher." Maybe he would have said, "My Lord or "My God".

Jesus is saying, in essence, "Why are you calling Me "good", since you don't believe I am God"?
 
It has been recorded that Jesus denied that he is God in the verses below from the KJV:

Matthew 19​
17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.​
Mark 10​
18 And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God.​
Luke 18​
19 And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? none is good, save one, that is, God.​

Based on the above Scripture, we can find the following information:

Jesus rhetorically questions why he is being called "good" and says that only God is good. This means that Jesus is distinguishing himself from God and that absolute goodness belongs exclusively to God. In saying this, Jesus denies that he possesses the absolute goodness that God has.

This distinction that Jesus pointed out between himself and God is evident in his rhetorical question about why he is being called good. If Jesus were God, then it would not be consistent for him to deny being called good and thus deny having this divine attribute of God.

Since Jesus denied having the absolute goodness of God, Jesus strongly inferred that he is just a teacher and a prophet. In John 8:28, Jesus stated, "I do nothing of myself; but as my Father hath taught me, I speak these things." Therefore, Jesus was himself taught by his God and Father. Needing to be taught by God means that Jesus is not omniscient and didn't inherently know the things he himself was teaching until he was taught.

Therefore, Jesus denied being God.
Jesus did not deny being God. If you understand the significance of what He said here you would see His acceptance of the truth to His identity. Anyone who was to take upon Himself the sins of His people as a Paschal Lamb of God would have to be God.

1 These words spake Jesus, and lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, Father, the hour is come; glorify thy Son, that thy Son also may glorify thee:
2 As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him.
3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.
4 I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do.
5 And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was. 6 I have manifested thy name unto the men which thou gavest me out of the world: thine they were, and thou gavest them me; and they have kept thy word.
7 Now they have known that all things whatsoever thou hast given me are of thee.
8 For I have given unto them the words which thou gavest me; and they have received them, and have known surely that I came out from thee, and they have believed that thou didst send me.
9 I pray for them: I pray not for the world, but for them which thou hast given me; for they are thine.
10 And all mine are thine, and thine are mine; and I am glorified in them.
11 And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are. John 17:1–11.

There is more in this prayer of Jesus that Martin Luther calls the "Holy of Holies" Prayer. A prayer that Jesus utters directly to His Father (one clue) in which He covers through prayer the three things He does in which His sacrifice will ensure the salvation of the object of His offering to God His Father. He prays to sanctify Himself, His twelve disciples (yes, including Judas), and those that will be saved through their ministry. Verse three is important, to call Himself "Jesus Christ" reveals acknowledging His Deity and the authority of offering Himself for His people, exactly the reason of His coming.
 
I believe the Bible is heavenly inspired by God and so I will only look at what is written in that. Not what people say about it.
Wonderful...... clap.gif


That means we dont have to listen to you........thankyou.gif


Because unless there is a Book of Peterlag......read_smiley.gif


What you say can be ignored.....icon_atomrofl.gif.
 
I believe the Bible is heavenly inspired by God and so I will only look at what is written in that. Not what people say about it.
Hello @Peterlag,

I agree with what you say, but you have laid yourself open to ridicule, for you yourself expect your comment to be read, as we all do. Everything that is said by anyone must be brought before the plumbline of the word of God and measured for it's truthfulness, regardless of whose word it is.

I find it difficult to read what you say, because I know that you deny the deity of Christ, and that brings what is said in 2 John 1:10 to mind:-

'Look to yourselves,
that we lose not those things which we have wrought,
but that we receive a full reward.
Whosoever transgresseth,
and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ,
hath not God.
He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ,
he hath both the Father and the Son.
If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine,
receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed:
For he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds.'
(2Jn 1:8-11)

If this is unjust in your case forgive me.
In Christ Jesus
Chris
 
"Blessed are you when people insult you and persecute you, and falsely say all kinds of evil against you because of Me. Rejoice and be glad, for your reward in heaven is great; for in the same way they persecuted the prophets who were before you." Matthew 5:11-12

The prophets were persecuted because they loved God and obeyed Him.

Here Jesus says that if we're persecuted because we love and obey Him, it's exactly the same thing.

Once again, Jesus is equating Himself with God.

But it doesn't matter how sound and logical our arguments are, Peterlag and his ilk will deny the logic, they will deny the truth of what's right in front of their eyes, and stubbornly claim "I'm still right." #2207

They really don't want to hear any scripture or any argument from scripture that proves them wrong. You can prove them wrong all day long - or in the case of this forum - several months (years?) long - and they remain deaf to the truth. They won't budge, because it's not really about the truth to them. It's about they've made up their minds, they're right, anyone who disagrees is wrong - Period!

In a court of law, he would have lost his case months (years) ago, because the court deals with truth and logic. But his kind do not acknowledge any truth or any logic that does not agree with them, even put right in front of their face. This attitude is very similar, if not the same, as a cultist. It's called being indoctrinated - brainwashed.

Peterlag said it himself: "I will only look at what is written in that (the Bible). Not what people say about it.

So why are you even here? Certainly not to hear what we have to say. You're hear strictly to "bless" the rest of us with your vast knowledge, and to give us the "privilege" of sitting at your feet and listening to your wisdom. You're arrogant and condescending and pride does go before a fall.
 
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Hello @Peterlag,

I agree with what you say, but you have laid yourself open to ridicule, for you yourself expect your comment to be read, as we all do. Everything that is said by anyone must be brought before the plumbline of the word of God and measured for it's truthfulness, regardless of whose word it is.

I find it difficult to read what you say, because I know that you deny the deity of Christ, and that brings what is said in 2 John 1:10 to mind:-

'Look to yourselves,
that we lose not those things which we have wrought,
but that we receive a full reward.
Whosoever transgresseth,
and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ,
hath not God.
He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ,
he hath both the Father and the Son.
If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine,
receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed:
For he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds.'
(2Jn 1:8-11)

If this is unjust in your case forgive me.
In Christ Jesus
Chris
It's sad you believe Jesus is God. A nasty doctrine that the Catholics brought to the world that is now believed by most Christians. There's no teaching on the trinity anywhere in the Bible. No whole paragraph or chapter teaching that we should believe or confess that Jesus is God.
 
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