Peterlag
Well-known member
The Jews never found multiple persons of God. You think they did. But they did not. They are correct. You are wrong.
Jesus denied being God
- Thread starter Runningman
- Start date
Johann
Well-known member
Atheist
Believe Jesus was just a man. They do credit him with being an influential philosopher and a moral intellectual who became wiser with age. They do not believe Jesus was raised from the dead.
Christadelphian
Jesus did not exist in any personal way before His divine conception but is the literal "word of God" become flesh. He was created a special but mortal man. He received divine power at His baptism which was withdrawn at the cross. Since they assert man has no soul, he also ceased to exist during the three days he was dead. Upon his resurrection, Jesus became the fullness of deity in bodily form thus completing a three step progression in nature. (Heb 13:8) They do not believe Christ will ever be equal to God or truly divine since they believe Jesus is a created being just like man and the angels.
Jehovah's Witnesses
They teach that Jesus was created by God just prior to creation. Jesus then created everything else. (Col 1:16,17 NWT inserts "other" before "things" to make the text read, "By His all OTHER things were created". The word "other" inserted throughout the text is not in the original Greek.) Jesus is not considered to be equal to God at all but a lesser being. Jesus ceased to exist at His death for 3 days.
Mormon
"As man now is, God once was...As God now is, man can become." Is a saying that accurately describes Mormon view of Jesus. Mormons believe that Jesus was created by God and is a "brother" to Satan. Like H.W. Armstrong, they teach divine progression. Jesus was once just a man who lived on another planet. He eventually progressed to be equal to God and came to colonize planet earth with "gods to be" or humans. Unforeseen to Christ, Satan (Jesus' brother) put a kink in this plan when he deceived Adam and Eve. Jesus was then required to die for fallen man, His creation. Jesus therefore is a model for us and one day we will be equal to God and colonize other planets too. There are millions of other planets being colonized right now in the same way in other galaxies. What makes earth's colonizing process unique is Satan's deception of Adam. Jesus is the God of planet earth. The Mormon hope is to marry, through a Mormon Temple ceremony, as many earth women as possible for eternal celestial marriage. In the resurrection all good Mormon men will call from the dead those women they married in a temple ceremony. They will then fly off to some uninhabited planet with their many polygamous wives and populate that planet.
Bible
The Bible teaches that Jesus is one of three separate personal beings who are divine. The Father, Son and Holy Spirit are equal and have always existed. The Bible view of the divinity of Christ is categorically different from all the above. We will one day share the divine pattern of moral conduct and be equal to God in righteousness but mankind will in no sense ever be considered divine or equal to God in nature. Jesus pro-existed His physical birth: Jn 1:15 + Lk 1:24-26; Jn 1:1. Jesus created ALL THINGS and therefore is not Himself created: Jn 1:3; Col 1:16,17; Heb 1:2,10. Rev 5:13,14 pictures a scene with all creation worshipping Jesus as God: Rev 5:13,14
I. Jesus pre-existed His physical birth
A. Jesus actually created the universe in Gen 1:1 (John 1:3, Heb 1:2,8-12; Col 1:16-17)
B. Jesus existed before Abraham who died 2000 BC: John 8:56-58
C. Jesus existed before John the baptist who was six months older than Jesus: John 1:15 + Lk 1:24-26
D. Prophecies before his incarnation into Mary's womb:
He will be called "God with us": Isa 7:14
He will be called, "Mighty God, Eternal Father": Isa 9:6
II. Jesus is Divine in name and is called "GOD" directly: John 1:1-3
A. Passages where Jesus is unquestionably called God
Heb 1:8 Father addresses son as God
Jn 1:1 The word was God
Phil 2:6-8 Jesus existed in the form of God
Jn 20:28 'My Lord and My God
Isa 7:14 "A Child Will Be Born And His Name Is Called": "Emanuel: God with us"
Isa 9:6 "A Child Will Be Born And His Name Is Called": "Mighty God, Eternal Father, Prince of Peace"
B. Passages that speak of Christ's deity but because of the wording in the Greek, it can be argued that the Father is being addressed as God, not Jesus.
Titus 2:13-14 "looking for the blessed hope and the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior, Christ Jesus; who gave Himself for us, that He might redeem us from every lawless deed and purify for Himself a people for His own possession, zealous for good deeds."
1 Timothy 1:16,17 "And yet for this reason I found mercy, in order that in me as the foremost, Jesus Christ might demonstrate His perfect patience, as an example for those who would believe in Him for eternal life. Now to the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only God, be honor and glory forever and ever. Amen."
1 Timothy 6:14-16 "that you keep the commandment without stain or reproach until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ, which He will bring about at the proper time-He who is the blessed and only Sovereign, the King of kings and Lord of lords; who alone possesses immortality and dwells in unapproachable light; whom no man has seen or can see. To Him be honor and eternal dominion! Amen."
2 Peter 1:1 "Simon Peter, a bond-servant and apostle of Jesus Christ, to those who have received a faith of the same kind as ours, by the righteousness of our God and Savior, Jesus Christ. Grace and peace be multiplied to you in the knowledge of God and of Jesus our Lord"
III. Jesus is called Jehovah:
A. When you read the Old Testament passage it is certainly talking about Jehovah. But the Holy Spirit through inspiration, quoted these passages in the New Testament and APPLIED THEM TO JESUS! This proves that Jesus is Jehovah God along with the Father and the Holy Spirit.
JEHOVAH
Applied to Jesus
Old Testament
New Testament
Creator Of All
Ps 102:24-27
Heb 1:8,10-12
Prepare Way For
lsa 40:3; Mal 3:1
Mt 3:3; Jn 1:23,30
Jehovah Pierced
Zech 12:10
Jn 19:37
Call On Jehovah
Joel 2:32
Acts 2:21,36; 4:10-12
B. Jehovah is described in the Old Testament in a number of unique titles. These titles are applied to Jesus Christ in the New Testament, proving He is Jehovah God along with the Father and the Holy Spirit.
Jehovah is
Jesus Christ is
Old Testament
New Testament
The great "I Am"
Ex 3:13-14
Jn 8:57-59
Lord of Lords
Deut 10:17
Rev 17:14
Lord of Glory
Ps 24:10; 29:3
1 Cor 2:8
First and the Last
Isa 41:4; 44:6; 48:12
Rev 1:17; 2:8; 22:13
I'm afraid there is no way for you to run @Runningman -cannot run from what stands written.
J.
Open your eyes
We read
The father is God
Jesus is God
The Holy Spirit is god
There is but one God
that equals the trinity
Micaiah
Active member
Johann
Well-known member
Yes we do.
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
Joh 1:2 This one was in the beginning with God.
Bereshis (in the Beginning) was the Dvar Hashem [YESHAYAH 55:11; BERESHIS 1:1], and the Dvar Hashem was agav (along with) Hashem [MISHLE 8:30; 30:4], and the Dvar Hashem was nothing less, by nature, than Elohim! [Psa 56:11(10); Yn 17:5; Rev. 19:13]
J.
Micaiah
Active member
“Jesus is God” is not in your proof text.
Johann
Well-known member
Passages where Jesus is unquestionably called God
Heb 1:8 Father addresses son as God
Heb 1:8 And Hashem says to HaBen, KIS'AHCHA ELOHIM OLAM VAED SHEVET MISHOR SHEVET MALKHUTECHA ("Your throne, O G-d, will endure for ever and ever, and the scepter of justice is the scepter of your kingdom" --TEHILLIM 45:7).
Jn 1:1 The word was God
Phil 2:6-8 Jesus existed in the form of God
Jn 20:28 'My Lord and My God
Isa 7:14 "A Child Will Be Born And His Name Is Called": "Emanuel: God with us"
Isa 7:14 Therefore Hashem Himself shall give you an ot (sign); Hinei, HaAlmah (the unmarried young virgin) shall conceive, and bear Ben, and shall call Shmo Immanu El (G-d is with us)
Isa 9:6 "A Child Will Be Born And His Name Is Called": "Mighty God, Eternal Father, Prince of Peace"
Isa 9:6 (5) For unto us a yeled is born, unto us ben is given; and the misrah (dominion) shall be upon his shoulder; and Shmo shall be called Peleh (Wonderful), Yoetz (Counsellor), El Gibbor (Mighty G-d), Avi Ad (Everlasting Father), Sar Shalom (Prince of Peace).
Just Scripture.
J.
Micaiah
Active member
“Unquestionably”?
The entire trinity doctrine is built on questionable imaginations.
Focus on what the Bible says, not what man says:
“Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.” (1 John 2:22, KJV)
There is no biblical penalty for denying that “Jesus is God”.
No penalty whatsoever!
[please use a Bible with all of the words translated: using original languages with only certain words doesn’t impress me]
Johann
Well-known member
Are you saying I am a liar and deny Jesus is the Christ?
V. Theme of the book of John: Jesus Taught He Is Divine
A. Overview of John:
We begin in John 1:1 with a plain statement of fact that Jesus is God. The gospel of John traces the process of Jesus teaching this fact of His divinity to mankind in various settings. Finally the book closes with another plain statement of the fact of Jesus' divinity, except this time it comes from the mouth of "doubting Thomas".
B. Basic outline of John:
More than a just a prophet: Jn 6
V 29 A prophet Believe in Him whom God has sent
V 30-34 A prophet equal to Moses: What sign? Manna from heaven
V 41,42 greater than Moses: "I have come down out of heaven'
Jn 5:17,18 I and Father are working: equality
Jn 8:53-59 "Tell them "I AM" sent you." (see Ex 3:14)
Jn 10:30-33 I and Father are one: equality
Climax of book: Jn 20:27,28: "my Lord and my God'
Conclusion of book: Jn 20:31 "these have been written that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing you may have life in His name"
How is it possible to have an intelligent conversation with you @Micaiah?
Tell you what, ignore my posts and allow me to edify others.
Thanks
J.
Micaiah
Active member
How did you come up with that interpretation?
How is spreading unbiblical things an edifying endeavor?
Johann
Well-known member
Micaiah
Active member
Sure we do
John 1:1 (LEB) — 1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
John 20:28–29 (LEB) — 28 Thomas answered and said to him, “My Lord and my God!” 29 Jesus said to him, “Because you have seen me, have you believed? Blessed are those who have not seen and have believed.”
Titus 2:13 (LEB) — 13 looking forward to the blessed hope and the glorious appearing of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ,
2 Peter 1:1 (LEB) — 1 Simeon Peter, a slave and apostle of Jesus Christ, to those who have obtained a faith equal in value to ours by the righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ.
Isaiah 9:6 (LEB) — 6 For a child has been born for us; a son has been given to us. And the dominion will be on his shoulder, and his name is called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.
Hebrews 1:7–12 (LEB) — 7 And concerning the angels he says, “The one who makes his angels winds, and his servants a flame of fire,” 8 but concerning the Son, “Your throne, O God, is forever and ever, and the scepter of righteous is the scepter of your kingdom. 9 You have loved righteousness and hated lawlessness; because of this God, your God, has anointed you with the olive oil of joy more than your companions. 10 And, “You, Lord, laid the foundation of the earth in the beginning, and the heavens are the works of your hands; 11 they will perish, but you continue, and they will all become old like a garment, 12 and like a robe you will roll them up, and like a garment they will be changed; but you are the same, and your years will not run out.”
civic
Well-known member
but you don't honor the Son like you do the Father that's the point Jesus was making. You fail the Jesus test when it comes to honoring Him. You honor the Father more which is dishonoring the Son.
And thus the Father
civic
Well-known member
ditto as the Son is devalued, dishonored and does not receive the equality in honor as Jesus declared is His along with the Father.
and we know miseo is defined as to love less and translated hate. As Jesus said he who does not hate ( love less ) their mother, father, sister, brother cannot be His disciple.
the uni's hate ( love less ) Jesus. They do not love Jesus the same as the Father and do not love Jesus the same as they do the Father.
They give Him lip service and pretend to love Him but it's not an equal love they have for the Father so according to Jesus they do not honor Him.
Bible Facts 101.
I tend to doubt it is even love
dwight92070
Well-known member
If anyone comes to Me, and does not hate his own father and mother and wife and children and brothers and sisters, yes, and even his own life, he cannot be My disciple. Luke 14:26
"You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your strength, and with all your mind; ..." Luke 10:27
So Jesus demands the exact same love that we are to give God. Either Jesus is demanding idolatry or He is God. Obviously He is God.
"You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your strength, and with all your mind; ..." Luke 10:27
So Jesus demands the exact same love that we are to give God. Either Jesus is demanding idolatry or He is God. Obviously He is God.
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Yep either he is a sinner and cannot save anyone or he is God
Peterlag
Well-known member
The Bible teaches there is one God, the Father, and one Messiah and Lord, Jesus Christ, who is the divinely conceived Son of God. Jesus Christ is the fully human “Son of God” and not “God the Son.” For clarity’s sake, it's helpful to understand what the Trinity is. The orthodox doctrine of the Trinity is that the Father is God, the Son is God, and the Holy Spirit is God, and the three of them are co-equal, co-eternal, and share the same essence and together those three individual “Persons” are one triune God. The doctrine of the Trinity that Jesus is both 100% God and 100% man and that both the divine nature and his human nature live together in his flesh body may be widely believed, but is never stated in the Bible.
