James' Teaching On Justification: Before Men Or Before God?

[mailmandan]

Then you are teaching Gods people in the old testament could be disobedient to God, not do the work He gave them to do and still be saved eternally.

Again you help me prove your gospel is salvation by belief alone and no obedience.
Salvation through disobedience.

The only thing you proved to me is that you depend on straw man arguments to try and refute my posts. What work in the Old Testament and in the New Testament were people given to do in order to be saved? Salvation has always been by belief/faith and not by works in the Old Testament and in the New Testament. (Genesis 15:5-6; Exodus 14:31; Habakkuk 2:4; Luke 7:50; 8:12; John 1:12; 3:15,16,18; 6:40,47; 11:25,26; Acts 5:14; 9:42; 11:17; 13:39; 16:31; Acts 18:8; 26:18; Romans 1:16; 3:24-28; 4:2-6; 5:1-2; 10:4; 1 Corinthians 1:21; Galatians 2:16; 3:6-9, 26; Ephesians 2:8-9; Philippians 3:9; 2 Timothy 3:15; Hebrews 10:39; 1 John 5:13 etc..).

Obedience/works "follow" saving belief (Ephesians 2:10; James 2:14-24) so saving belief does not remain alone "apart from obedience/works. You just have the cart before the horse. Seeking salvation by works and refusing to obey the gospel by choosing to believe the gospel (Romans 10:16; 2 Thessalonians 1:8) is disobedience which stems from unbelief. (2 Corinthians 4:3,4; Hebrews 3:18-19) Romans 1:16 - For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ, for it is the power of God unto salvation for everyone who believes, (believes + what? Simply believes) for the Jew first and also for the Greek.

 

[Dizerner]

So works have no Eternal value without the proper intent?

Of course, it will all be burned up as self-glorification and idolatry.

Please repent of your own righteousness and your lowly permissive God who requires no atonement before it is too late.

Repent and honor the Cross as God's righteousness that destroys every meriting work of man.

For they being ignorant of God's righteousness,
and seeking to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted to the righteousness of God.
For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes. (Rom. 10:3-4 NKJ)

It's not worth going to hell just because God doesn't save people the way we think he should.

The FEAR of God is the BEGINNING of wisdom and knowledge.

Have you begun?

Or do you put yourself on the throne and tell him how he should run things.

 

[mailmandan]

Taking the word pistis out of Strongs concordance doesn't explain what faith is when put into practice.
You must use words in context to understand there meaning.
This is why you do not understand repentance.
A change of mind does not explain Biblical repentance.
Paul has the best verse on what Biblical repentance is.

If a man cheats on taxes but quits cheating for fear of going to jail.
He has changed his mind.
But he did not repent.
Biblical repentance needs more explanation than just a change of mind.

If the man who cheats on his taxes knew he could get away with it, he would continue to cheat.
The only reason he changed his mind according to the apostle Paul is worldly sorrow.
He's only concerned with self. Not with doing what is right in Gods eyes.
Changing ones mind does not give a good explanation of repentance.

As pistis does not explain Biblical saving faith without context.

I understand repentance just fine. The Greek word for "repent" is "metanoia" (noun) and "matanoeo" (verb) you see as defined in the Strongs #3340, 3341: to think differently or afterwards, reconsider. To change one's mind.

https://www.bibletools.org/index.cfm/fuseaction/Lexicon.show/ID/G3340/metanoeo.htm#:~:text=Strong's #3340: metanoeo (pronounced met-an-o-eh'-o) from 3326 and,i.e. reconsider (morally, feel compunction):--repent. Thayer's Greek Lexicon:

Repentance basically means a "change of mind" and the context must determine what is involved in this change of mind. Where salvation is in view, repentance actually precedes saving faith in Christ and is not a totally separate act from faith. It is actually the same coin with two sides. Repentance is on one side (what you change your mind about) and faith in Christ is on the positive side, the new direction of this change of mind. Repentance and faith are two sides of the same experience of receiving Christ. (Acts 20:21)

The Bible also tells us that true repentance will result in a change of actions. Acts 26:20 declares, "I preached that they should repent and turn to God and prove their repentance by their deeds." This is the fruit of repentance (Matthew 3:8) but not the essence of repentance (change of mind).

Prior to coming to the end result of repentance in receiving salvation (faith in Christ), certain folks must change their minds about other specific things in order to get there. Repentance, metanoia, focuses on changing one's mind about his previous concept of God (as in Acts 17:30) and disbelief in God or false beliefs (polytheism and idolatry) about God. (1 Thessalonians 1:9) On the other hand, this change of mind, focuses on the new direction that change about God must ultimately take, namely, believing in the Lord Jesus Christ for salvation/placing faith in Him alone for salvation. (Acts 11:17,18; 15:7-9)

The Strong's Concordance explains pistis just fine.

Strong's Greek: 4102. πίστις (pistis) -- Faith, belief, trust, confidence, fidelity

So does Hebrews 11:1 - Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen/assurance of things hoped for, the conviction of things not seen. Faith is not works.

 

[Titus]

These are the earliest letters written by believers on what true gospel salvation is.
These men are the closest to the early church that you can find
None of them teach salvation by faith alone because the apostles did not teach salvation by faith alone.

The only thing you proved to me is that you depend on straw man arguments to try and refute my posts. What work in the Old Testament and in the New Testament were people given to do in order to be saved? Salvation has always been by belief/faith and not by works in the Old Testament and in the New Testament. (Genesis 15:5-6; Exodus 14:31; Habakkuk 2:4; Luke 7:50; 8:12; John 1:12; 3:15,16,18; 6:40,47; 11:25,26; Acts 5:14; 9:42; 11:17; 13:39; 16:31; Acts 18:8; 26:18; Romans 1:16; 3:24-28; 4:2-6; 5:1-2; 10:4; 1 Corinthians 1:21; Galatians 2:16; 3:6-9, 26; Ephesians 2:8-9; Philippians 3:9; 2 Timothy 3:15; Hebrews 10:39; 1 John 5:13 etc..).

Obedience/works "follow" saving belief (Ephesians 2:10; James 2:14-24) so saving belief does not remain alone "apart from obedience/works. You just have the cart before the horse. Seeking salvation by works and refusing to obey the gospel by choosing to believe the gospel (Romans 10:16; 2 Thessalonians 1:8) is disobedience which stems from unbelief. (2 Corinthians 4:3,4; Hebrews 3:18-19) Romans 1:16 - For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ, for it is the power of God unto salvation for everyone who believes, (believes + what? Simply believes) for the Jew first and also for the Greek.

So Noah was not saved by his obedience in preparing the ark that the Bible says saved his household. Hebrews 11:6-7.

Please quote any early Christian like Polycarp who was a disciple of the apostle John teaching what you teach?
Show them teaching no effort required no striving to be saved?
Show they taught OSAS.
Show they taught baptism was not required by Jesus even though it is a commandment of Jesus Himself, Matthew 28:18-20

Your religion is young.
It should be strange to you that none of the earliest church members taught faith alone salvation.
OSAS.
Baptism not essential for salvation.

Peter commanded water baptism.
This proves it is a must for salvation.
You have helped me in exposing your gospel as a gospel of disobedience to Gods commandments to be saved.
Acts 10:47-48,
- and Peter commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord...
1Thessalonians 2:13,
- for this cause also thank we God without ceasing because when ye received the word of God which ye heard of us, ye received it not as the word of men but as it is in truth the word of God, which effectually worketh also in you that believe

Peter's commandment to be baptized is Jesus commanding us to be baptized.
You will sadly have to face Jesus on judgment day and explain to Him why you taught others that obedience to Jesus' new testament commandments are optional and not nessary to be saved by Jesus.

 

[Titus]

So does Hebrews 11:1 - Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen/assurance of things hoped for, the conviction of things not seen. Faith is not works.

Every single person mentioned in Hebrews 11 as men or women of great faith all, all, all, obeyed and worked Gods commandments.
It was said that they all were saved not by a faith that only believed but by a faith that worked Gods commandments.

Saving faith is an action word. Without action belief is dead, worthless.
You teach a dead faith saves, James 2:24.

I'm still waiting on you to quote James teaching faith alone justifies.
No commentary.
Just quote James teach what you teach.

 

[Titus]

Where salvation is in view, repentance actually precedes saving faith in Christ and is not a totally separate act from faith

You just admitted repentance is an action.
That makes it something we do.
You just contradicted your gospel of doing nothing except believing.
That Jesus does it all we do nothing.
Acts of faith. Like repentance is something we must do to be saved.

Action involves doing something.
Repentance involves repentance of past sins.
Acts 3:19,
- repent therefore and turn back that your sins may be blotted out

Turn back: this Greek word shows that repentance is not just a mental change as Dan tries to define it.
It means a moral spiritual turning from sin.
Thus to repent in the new testament gospel of Christ is to stop practicing sin. That is an action.
Actions are good works like stopping willful sin.
All commandments are worked by us.
Working commandments are required to be saved.
Acts 17:30-31,
- the times of ignorance God overlooked but now commandeth all men everywhere to repent

You teach faith and repentance are two sides of the same coin.
Since repentance is an action.
Faith is an action as well.

 

[Titus]

Obedience/works "follow" saving belief (Ephesians 2:10; James 2:14-24) so saving belief does not remain alone "apart from obedience/works. You just have the cart before the horse. Seeking salvation by works and refusing to obey the gospel by choosing to believe the gospel (Romans 10:16; 2 Thessalonians 1:8) is disobedience which stems from unbelief. (2 Corinthians 4:3,4; Hebrews 3:18-19) Romans 1:16 - For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ, for it is the power of God unto salvation for everyone who believes, (believes + what? Simply believes) for the Jew first and also for the Greek

The word believes is an action.
It is continuous not a one time event.
Again you are proving faith is action.
And action is our obedience.

You cannot seperate action from true Biblical saving faith.
No action is a dead faith.
The works that comes from faith is how true saving faith justifies us, James 2:24.
Hebrews 11 shows people whose belief caused them to act. In Noah's case His faith moved him to build to obey Gods instruction. And this is how Noah was saved. Not by belief with no works no action as Dan wrongly teaches.

 

[Titus]

Eternally Greatfull and Dan the mailman accuse me of works salvation.
If this is true then their accusation that I must be a perfect law keeper to be saved is true.

Yes, if works by themselves save then only sinless perfection could save.

Since works are required by God to be saved how is sinless perfection not required?
God requires faith that obeys not perfection.
Hebrews 11 repeatedly shows that people were saved by faith that acted.
Abraham, Moses, Rahab, all had flaws but were commended for their faith.
Abraham lied, Genesis 12,20.
Moses disobeyed and struck the rock, Numbers 20.
David commited sin, 2 Samuel 11. Yet repented Psalm 51.
Yet were all forgiven and still called righteous. Why?
Because they had a faith that obeyed and repented when they failed. No perfection.

Salvation by perfect law keeping was never Gods plan

Galatians 3:21,
- if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by law

Paul teaches law keeping could never save because no one could keep the law perfectly.
But this dosen't mean obedience is irrelevant to salvation.

We are saved by grace through a working, obedient faith, not sinless law keeping

Romans 6:17,
- but God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine...

Hebrews 5:9,
- and being made perfect He became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey Him

Obedience is part of salvation. Not perfect obedience but faithfull obedience.

Dan believes the word obey like in Romans 6:17 only means to believe the gospel.
The Greek word here for obey is not the Greek word for faith.
They are different words with different meanings.

The word obey in Romans 6:17 means to submit.
Paul is contrasting their former slavery to sin with their new obedience to Christian teaching.
that form of doctrine
This means a pattern that they conformed themselves to not just mentally agreed with.

This form or pattern of doctrine is in this context is baptism.
They submitted to the doctrine of Christian baptism in Romans 6:1-7.

That is the obedience here. Not just belief in what Paul preached but obedience in taking action and being baptized into Christ, Galatians 3:26-27.

Romans 1:5 shows obedience results from faith but is not faith itself.
Obedient faith is what saves not belief all alone by itself.
Saving faith is so closely joined with obedience that one cannot define faith that saves being without works.

Obedience is a direction not perfection.
To be obedient to God means you are submitting your will to God and following His commands sincerely even though you sometimes stumble.

Paul called himself the chief of sinners but was obedient to Gods call, 1 Timothy 1:15.
Zacharias & Elizabeth,
Luke 1:6,
- walking in all the commandments and ordinances of the Lord blameless
Even though Zacharias doubted the angel, Luke 1:18.


Blameless does not mean perfectly sinless.

So it is possible to teach one must obey Gods commandments to be saved while not teaching perfect sinlessness.

God is not looking for perfectly sinless people but people who strive to live faithfully and when they fall repent and continue in doing their best to keep His commandments.
Gods grace is extended to those who continue to strive to do Gods will.
God never promised his grace would cover unrepentant unfaithful believers.

 

[mailmandan]

These are the earliest letters written by believers on what true gospel salvation is.
These men are the closest to the early church that you can find
None of them teach salvation by faith alone because the apostles did not teach salvation by faith alone.

Being closest to the early church does not necessarily mean your doctrine is correct. False doctrine was creeping into the church very early even as the Bible was still being written. I often hear Rioman Catholics, quote the church fathers in order to support infant baptism, transubstantiation and other false doctrines. I have also heard Roman Catholics claim that nobody before the reformation taught salvation through faith alone, but I have read otherwise.

Clement of Rome: "We also, being called through God's will in Christ Jesus, are not justified through ourselves, neither through our own wisdom or understanding, or piety, or works which we have done in holiness or heart, but through faith" (Epistle to Corinthians).

Ignatius: "His cross, and his death, and his resurrection, and the faith which is through him, are my unpolluted muniments; and in these, through your prayers, I am willing to be justified (Epistle to Philadelphians). Note: "muniments" are title deeds, documents giving evidence of legal ownership of something.

Polycarp: "I know that through grace you are saved, not of works, but by the will of God, through Jesus Christ (Epistle of Philippians).

Justin Martyr: "No longer by the blood of goats and of sheep, or by the ashes of a heifer...are sins purged, but by faith, through the blood of Christ and his death, who died on this very account (Dialogue with Trypho). "God gave his own Son the ransom for us...for what, save his righteousness, could cover our sins. In whom was it possible that we, transgressors and ungodly as we were, could be justified, save in the Son of God alone? ...O unexpected benefit, that the transgression of many should be hidden in one righteous Person and that the righteousness of One should justify many transgressors" (Letter to Diognetus).

Athanasius: "Not by these (i.e. human efforts) but by faith, a man is justified as was Abraham."

Basil: "This is the true and perfect glorying in God, when a man is not lifted up on account of his own righteousness, but has known himself to be wanting in true righteousness and to be justified by faith alone in Christ."

Ambrose: "Without the works of the law, to an ungodly man, that is to say, a Gentile, believing in Christ, his "faith is imputed for righteousness" as also it was to Abraham."

Origen: "Through faith, without the works of the law, the dying thief was justified, because...the Lord inquired not what he had previously wrought, nor yet waited for his performance of some work after he should have believe; but...he took him unto himself for a companion, justified through his confession alone."

Jerome: "When an ungodly man is converted, God justified him through faith alone, not on account of good works which he possessed not."

Chrysostom: "What then did God do? He made (says Paul) a righteous Person (Christ) to be a sinner, in order that he might make sinners righteous... it is the righteousness of God, when we are justified, not by works...but by grace, where all sin is made to vanish away."

Chrysostom: "Again, they said that he who adhered to faith alone was cursed, but he shows that he who adhered to faith alone, is blessed."

Augustine: "Grace is give to you, not wages paid to you...it is called grace because it is given gratuitously. By no precedent merits did you buy what you have received. The sinner therefore received this grace first, that his sins should be forgiven him...good works follow after a justified person; they do not go before in order that he may be justified...good works, following after justification, show what a man has received."

Augustine: "Now, having duly considered and weighed all these circumstances and testimonies, we conclude that a man is not justified by the precepts of a holy life, but by faith in Jesus Christ,--in a word, not by the law of works, but by the law of faith; not by the letter, but by the spirit; not by the merits of deeds, but by free grace."

Anselm: "Do you believe that you cannot be saved but by the death of Christ? Go, then, and ...put all your confidence in this death alone. If God shall say to you, "You are a sinner", say to him, "I place the death of our Lord Jesus Christ between me and my sin.""

Bernard of Clairvaux: "Shall not all our righteousness turn out to be mere unrighteousness and deficiency? What, then, shall it be concerning our sins, when not even our righteousness can answer for itself? Wherefore...let us flee, with all humility to Mercy which alone can save our souls...whoever hungers and thirsts after righteousness, let him believe in thee, who "justified the ungodly"; and thus, being justified by faith alone, he shall have peace with God."​

So Noah was not saved by his obedience in preparing the ark that the Bible says saved his household. Hebrews 11:6-7.

By building the ark Noah saved his family and himself from drowning. Noah was already eternally saved prior to building the ark. (Genesis 6:8-9)

Please quote any early Christian like Polycarp who was a disciple of the apostle John teaching what you teach?
Show them teaching no effort required no striving to be saved?
Show they taught OSAS.
Show they taught baptism was not required by Jesus even though it is a commandment of Jesus Himself, Matthew 28:18-20

The writings of Polycarp and all the church fathers are not inspired yet the writings of Jesus and the apostles are inspired. (John 6:38-39; 10:27-28; 18:9; Romans 4:5-6; 8:30; Ephesians 2:8,9) Show me in scripture where Jesus said whoever is not baptized will not be saved. I'll be waiting. John 3:18 - He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who (is not water baptized? - NO) does not believe is condemned already, because he has not (been water baptized? - NO) because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. Receiving water baptism is a commandment AFTER one becomes a disciple (Matthew 28:18-20) and is saved. (Acts 10:43-47)

Your religion is young.

My religion is as old as the Bible and it comes straight out of scripture.

It should be strange to you that none of the earliest church members taught faith alone salvation.
OSAS.
Baptism not essential for salvation.

Roman Catholic sales pitch. I'm more concerned with what scripture teaches than I am with what selective fallible writings by fallible men teach.

Peter commanded water baptism.
This proves it is a must for salvation.

Wrong. Peter commanded water baptism for these Gentile believers AFTER they were saved through believing in Him and received the Holy Spirit.. (Acts 10:43-47)

You have helped me in exposing your gospel as a gospel of disobedience to Gods commandments to be saved.

Your gospel of works salvation exposes your unbelief. These Gentiles were not disobedient to the command to be water baptized AFTER they were saved through belief/faith and neither was I.

Acts 10:47-48,
- and Peter commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord...

AFTER they believed in Him, received the gift of the Holy Spirit, spoke in tongues (spiritual gift that is ONLY for the body of Christ - 2 Corinthians 12) and were saved BEFORE baptism. (Acts 10:43-47)

1Thessalonians 2:13,
- for this cause also thank we God without ceasing because when ye received the word of God which ye heard of us, ye received it not as the word of men but as it is in truth the word of God, which effectually worketh also in you that believe

Peter's commandment to be baptized is Jesus commanding us to be baptized.
You will sadly have to face Jesus on judgment day and explain to Him why you taught others that obedience to Jesus' new testament commandments are optional and not nessary to be saved by Jesus.

The command to be water baptized is not considered an optional extra. Its a command that believers are expected to obey and I certainly have obeyed that command after I was saved through faith. However, it's not obeying that command that saves but believing in Jesus Christ for salvation that saves. (Acts 10:43; 13:38-39; 16:31 etc..). You will have to explain to Jesus on judgment day why you refused to trust in Him alone for salvation and instead trusted in water and works for salvation. Its still not too late for you to repent and believe the gospel.

 

[mailmandan]

You just admitted repentance is an action.
That makes it something we do.

So, now you define repentance as works along with faith? Changing our mind and choosing to believe the gospel is not to be confused with actions/works which are the fruit of repentance. (Matthew 3:8) One who repents demonstrates it through their actions.

You just contradicted your gospel of doing nothing except believing.

No contradiction because repentance precedes believing unto salvation. Jesus said repent and believe the gospel in Mark 1:15. We must first repent (change our mind) before we can believe the gospel and become saved. This is not hard to understand.

That Jesus does it all we do nothing.
Acts of faith. Like repentance is something we must do to be saved.

You just don't get it. That repentance precedes faith (Acts 20:21) and we are saved by grace through faith and not by works (Ephesians 2:8,9) is not hard to understand. Its just hard for you to ACCEPT.

Action involves doing something.
Repentance involves repentance of past sins.
Acts 3:19,
- repent therefore and turn back that your sins may be blotted out

Repent and be converted so that your sins may be blotted out. (Faith is implied or assumed, two sides to the same coin - Acts 11:17,18; 20:21).

Turn back: this Greek word shows that repentance is not just a mental change as Dan tries to define it.

Repentance is a change of mind and the fruit of repentance is a change in actions/we demonstrate our repentance by our deeds. (Acts 26:20)

It means a moral spiritual turning from sin.
Thus to repent in the new testament gospel of Christ is to stop practicing sin. That is an action.
Actions are good works like stopping willful sin.

The fruit of repentance is practicing righteousness and not sin. (1 John 3:9-10) Good works are the fruit.

All commandments are worked by us.
Working commandments are required to be saved.
Acts 17:30-31,
- the times of ignorance God overlooked but now commandeth all men everywhere to repent

Don't confuse commands which are required to be saved (like repentance) with commands that follow salvation (like water baptism).

You teach faith and repentance are two sides of the same coin.
Since repentance is an action.
Faith is an action as well.

Repentance and faith. Don't confuse the order. Everything is an action/work for salvation with you which explains why your false gospel culminates in works righteousness. I can tell that your beliefs are fixed and your indoctrination runs very deep. Only the Lord can open your eyes to the truth. All I can do is plant seeds that will hopefully get watered some day.

 

[mailmandan]

The word believes is an action.
It is continuous not a one time event.
Again you are proving faith is action.
And action is our obedience.

You cannot seperate action from true Biblical saving faith.
No action is a dead faith.
The works that comes from faith is how true saving faith justifies us, James 2:24.
Hebrews 11 shows people whose belief caused them to act. In Noah's case His faith moved him to build to obey Gods instruction. And this is how Noah was saved. Not by belief with no works no action as Dan wrongly teaches.

When did I say that faith was a one time event? Faith continues and is not some shallow, temporary belief that has no root, produces no fruit and withers away. Faith involves belief, trust and reliance in Christ for salvation and action/obedience which follows is works. You just cannot seem to grasp this. Biblical, saving faith in Christ is the root of salvation and actions/works which follow are the fruit of salvation.

Now read (Romans 4:2-6; 11:6; Ephesians 2:8,9; Titus 3:5; 2 Timothy 1:9) Believers are shown to be righteous by works, which come from faith (James 2:21, 24) but believers are not accounted as righteous by works, which come from faith. (Romans 4:2-6; Ephesians 2:8,9) Learn the difference.

Noah's obedience of building the ark was a demonstration of his faith but not the origin of it. Noah had already found grace in the eyes of the Lord and was a just man who walked with God BEFORE he built the ark. (Genesis 6:8-9)

 

[Titus]

By building the ark Noah saved his family and himself from drowning. Noah was already eternally saved prior to building the ark. (Genesis 6:8-9)

This proves once again that you reject obeying God to be saved.
Your religion is salvation through disobedience. Just believe but commandments are unnecessary.

Dan Noah was saved physically and spiritually by Gods grace.
Noah would have fallen from Gods grace if he would have disobeyed God.
its amazing to me that you are teaching Noah could disobey God drowned and still be saved.
Your religion has pedofile that do not repent just believe only going to heaven.
Obedience and true Biblical repentance does nothing for a mans soul.

Matthew 10:22,
- and you will be hated by everyone because of My name, but it is the one who endued to the end who will be saved

Jesus taught continuing in faithfulness to be saved.
You teach eternal salvation is a one moment in time of a persons belief.

Romans 1:16, believeth means to continue in believing. Ongoing trust.
This word is much more than intellectual agreement. Its living in dependance on Gods promises.
A trust so real it produces obedience.

John 3:36,
- whoever believes in the Son has eternal life whoever does not obey the Son shall not see life but the wrath of God remains on him

John shows a clear contrast between believing and disobeying using two different Greek verbs.
This helps prove belief is more than mental assent it includes obedience.

John teaches if you dont obey Gods commandments then you don't really believe.
Dan by not believing you must do what God says to do you dont even have the very thing you claim is a must for salvation. Which is faith.

To not obey God is to not even believe God.

The gospel of Jesus Christ includes being baptized as a direct command of God Acts 10:47-48.
Dan teaches you don't need to be baptized. It is optional.
According to John Dan doesn't really believe the gospel of Jesus Christ. Because Dan believes obedience to certain commandments are not essential just optional.
Therefore obedience to Jesus is optional.

Show me in scripture where Jesus said whoever is not baptized will not be saved. I'll be waiting. John 3:18 - He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who (is not water baptized? - NO) does not believe is condemned already

To be saved according to Jesus one must believe.
If this first requirement is not met then being baptized will only get you wet.

Jesus never taught one requirement to be saved.
Jesus never told Paul all that was required of him was to believe only.
Dan must ignore that Jesus told Paul, things he must do.
In Acts 9:6,
- and the Lord said unto him, arise go into the city and it shall be told thee what thou must do
Dan ignores scriptures that dont fit his ideas of what salvation means.

The Greek word must that Jesus used here means,
It is nessary.
It is required.
It is binding.
It is non-negotiable.
This proves Paul must obey whatever Jesus commands him to do.
If Paul disobeys Paul will be lost.
What does Jesus command Paul to do?
Acts 22:16,
- and now why are you waiting, Arise and be baptized and wash away your sins calling on the name of the Lord

Paul had no other choice to be baptized into Christ, Galatians 3:26-27.
Baptism was not optional for Paul. Neither was it for Cornelius, Acts 10:47-48.
Yet Dan says it not essential therefore optional.
Gods direct commandments are not optional.

Other verses with this Greek word must.
Luke 24:46,
- thus it is written, that Christ  must suffer
Could Christ have chosen not to? Could anyone be saved if Christ chose not to?

Acts 4:12,
- there is no other Name by which we  must be saved
Can we be saved by another name? Is it optional?

Acts 14:22,
- We must through many tribulations enter the kingdom of God
Can anyone enter the kingdom of God without enduring tribulations? Are tribulations optional?
This means the only way to enter the kingdom is through persecution, hardship, spiritual testing.
Not in Dan's religion. One only needs to believe once in their lifetime. No need to endure till the end.

John 3:7,
- you  must be born again
Is being born again optional? Or is it a must to salvation?

Jesus never taught all one must do is believe only. Jesus did not tell Paul this.

Matthew 28:19-20,
- go ye therefore and teach(gospel) all nations baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit
- teaching them(Acts 8:4) to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you...

Jesus commanded all obey all of His teachings. Not just the ones that fit your church's doctrine.

Acts 8:4,
- therefore they that were scattered abroad went everywhere preaching the word

 

[Titus]

When did I say that faith was a one time event?

You dont need to say that word for word.
You teach salvation is a moment in a persons life when they first believe on Jesus.
You said that's how you were saved.
You also teach after this you are OSAS.
So unless you want to go against your gospel and teach one must keep on believing to stay saved, I stand by what I said.

 

[Titus]

Faith involves belief, trust and reliance in Christ for salvation and action/obedience which follows is works

Which is it Dan?
Faith alone with no obedience to Gods commandments that save?
Or faith that obeys God in working Gods commandments like building an ark that saves.

You need to make up your mind.
Dan if those actions/ obedience to Gods commandments dont follow are you really saved?
Can a man really get to heaven if all he ever had was his belief alone.

 

[FreeInChrist]

You have to realize that in Christian teaching and debate the word "works" has become laden down with a whole set of ideas and theology that the original word simply does not have.

Some people bristle and revolt at the word as representing the very heart of a legalistic attempt to earn heaven.

Others immediately latch on as a way to fight a compromising and passive idea that a Christian can live "any old way they want."

The word in the original just means at its base an "action," and from there can have several nuances like a manifestation, accomplishment or task.

But if we say that any action automatically is an attempt to merit heaven, than any act of the will including simply the reception of a gift becomes itself a form of attempting self-merit. That is, even just the bare acceptance of a gift must be trying to earn it.

And if you were consistent in your logic here, you would have to completely eliminate all human free will in the name of grace. After all, what could possibly be more gracious than us literally do nothing at all, and God literally doing everything?

But every person who believes in free will knows that cannot be true. So what do some do? They sort of make a little "one time exception" but keep the basic idea that contradicts their exception. They literally want to eat their cake and have it too.

Now a one tiny little itty-bitty mini-work can be somehow exempted from the term work, because they do not like the theologically laden word "work" to be allowed to be used at all, for any reason.

But remember—work is just an action—and if grace means no action is taken, human will is out of the picture; if taking a gift earns the gift, literally even just a bare yes to grace somehow merits heaven. That is, if—IF—we stay logically consistent and don't allow ourselves to double speak.

But there is a strange temptation surrounding double speak, because if I like certain aspect of both sides of a dichotomy, both sides of a position that contradict each other, and I want to keep a little of each even though I know they are not really compatible, I can play little mental games and just simply start double speaking—in one situation when I like it, I say A, in another situation when I don't like it, I say NOT A, and it just depends on the framework. Then I say they are "compatible" even though they directly logically contradict, then I say anyone is "misrepresenting" me whenever anyone calls out my inconsistency.

And thus a stronghold is born.

Now we can allow "works" when we want to, say they are not really works, and no long require ourselves to be logically consistent.

But Scripture has a lot to say about works, and it's not all negative, it's not all "works bad." Jesus directly tells Blood-bought saints that he will judge them by their works, and he knows their works to the point their very salvation is in jeopardy, in the beginning of Revelation. And I will, for now, ignore the irrational pretzels that are woven to try to get out of that one, lol.

And a person will accuse you of "pitting James against Paul," if you don't simply assume "their" version of works. So the word "works" gets blacklisted and hijacked and laden with ideas that don't necessarily accompany it. If you even breathe the word "works" then you are subverting all forms of grace and the gift of the Cross providing our merit for us.

But this is them simply framing the narrative, bringing in their presuppositions and acting like they are the only game in town.

We cannot simply assume works only has one meaning.

We cannot simply assume works always is something negative.

When Paul speaks of works he is always framing it in the context on a specific kind of works, a certain kind of action.

We need to shatter the religious stereotype of what "works" has come to mean and go back to the original sources, and back to Scripture, which tells us that even Christian believers trusting in the Cross WILL be judged by their works—and sometimes condemned.

Grace has never once meant passivity, nor an abdication of responsibilty, nor the elimination of human free choice.

It's time to take back the Biblical meaning of Grace and Works from the hands of those who are twisting it and painting their own narrative.

 

[Selah]

The way I see it, our Father gave His children special (specific) gifts and work to do for Him.

Ephesians 2:8-10 (NKJV) 8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; [it is] the gift of God, 9 not of works, lest anyone should boast. 10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.

s e l a h

 

[FreeInChrist]

You have to realize that in Christian teaching and debate the word "works" has become laden down with a whole set of ideas and theology that the original word simply does not have.

Some people bristle and revolt at the word as representing the very heart of a legalistic attempt to earn heaven.

Others immediately latch on as a way to fight a compromising and passive idea that a Christian can live "any old way they want."

The word in the original just means at its base an "action," and from there can have several nuances like a manifestation, accomplishment or task.

But if we say that any action automatically is an attempt to merit heaven, than any act of the will including simply the reception of a gift becomes itself a form of attempting self-merit. That is, even just the bare acceptance of a gift must be trying to earn it.

And if you were consistent in your logic here, you would have to completely eliminate all human free will in the name of grace. After all, what could possibly be more gracious than us literally do nothing at all, and God literally doing everything?

But every person who believes in free will knows that cannot be true. So what do some do? They sort of make a little "one time exception" but keep the basic idea that contradicts their exception. They literally want to eat their cake and have it too.

Now a one tiny little itty-bitty mini-work can be somehow exempted from the term work, because they do not like the theologically laden word "work" to be allowed to be used at all, for any reason.

But remember—work is just an action—and if grace means no action is taken, human will is out of the picture; if taking a gift earns the gift, literally even just a bare yes to grace somehow merits heaven. That is, if—IF—we stay logically consistent and don't allow ourselves to double speak.

But there is a strange temptation surrounding double speak, because if I like certain aspect of both sides of a dichotomy, both sides of a position that contradict each other, and I want to keep a little of each even though I know they are not really compatible, I can play little mental games and just simply start double speaking—in one situation when I like it, I say A, in another situation when I don't like it, I say NOT A, and it just depends on the framework. Then I say they are "compatible" even though they directly logically contradict, then I say anyone is "misrepresenting" me whenever anyone calls out my inconsistency.

And thus a stronghold is born.

Now we can allow "works" when we want to, say they are not really works, and no long require ourselves to be logically consistent.

But Scripture has a lot to say about works, and it's not all negative, it's not all "works bad." Jesus directly tells Blood-bought saints that he will judge them by their works, and he knows their works to the point their very salvation is in jeopardy, in the beginning of Revelation. And I will, for now, ignore the irrational pretzels that are woven to try to get out of that one, lol.

And a person will accuse you of "pitting James against Paul," if you don't simply assume "their" version of works. So the word "works" gets blacklisted and hijacked and laden with ideas that don't necessarily accompany it. If you even breathe the word "works" then you are subverting all forms of grace and the gift of the Cross providing our merit for us.

But this is them simply framing the narrative, bringing in their presuppositions and acting like they are the only game in town.

We cannot simply assume works only has one meaning.

We cannot simply assume works always is something negative.

When Paul speaks of works he is always framing it in the context on a specific kind of works, a certain kind of action.

We need to shatter the religious stereotype of what "works" has come to mean and go back to the original sources, and back to Scripture, which tells us that even Christian believers trusting in the Cross WILL be judged by their works—and sometimes condemned.

Grace has never once meant passivity, nor an abdication of responsibilty, nor the elimination of human free choice.

It's time to take back the Biblical meaning of Grace and Works from the hands of those who are twisting it and painting their own narrative.

I only know that for me to love is not a work. For me to have faith/belief is not a work. For me these are a privilege

. That I am allowed to love God the Father, Son and Holy Spirit. That could easily be taken away if He so chooses. That I am allowed to believe in what Christ Jesus did for me (us) takes no effort on my part and that this belief allows me to have the faith that we have been told without we cannot please God. That is also not a work.

Now, If Faith is considered the condition for receiving salvation, meaning that while faith itself does not save, it is essential for accepting the salvation offered through Christ. If salvation is a gift from God that is accessed through faith, emphasizing a relationship with Him rather than merely a transactional exchange, how in the world can anyone regard it as a work?

The only actual work that is truly a work IMO is repentance. For that is the only thing that requires an actual effort to achieve.
Parts of which take more effort...

Just my opinion.

 

[Dizerner]

I only know that for me to love is not a work.

The word has been dyed too deeply in your thinking to step back and approach it with a blank slate.

You don't read "action."

You read, every single time without exception, "attempt to merit."

Ever heard the phrase, "actions speak louder than words"?

If you allow yourself to be purposefully consumed with sinful lusts and completely ignore God, you do not love Jesus.

Period.

 

[FreeInChrist]

The original author of the Bible is the Holy Spirit. So I'm not sure what you mean by this.
I sincerely don't understand what you mean. Please clarify.


Is love telling "your" grandmother who lives in a nursing home that you love her but never visit her or even put forth the effort to take time out of your schedule to call and talk to her.
Just once maybe at a family reunion you end up together and you say, I love you.

My Dad almost never told me he loved me.
Nothing wrong with saying it but that is the way he was raised so that is how he raised me.
Love is expressed through deeds, actions.
Jesus is the best example of love.
He demonstrated his love for us during His entire life.
The tremendous effort He put into willingly suffering for us on the cross was love.
Just imagine if Jesus did nothing but say I love you. Wheres the proof that love is genuine?

Wives, children same thing.
Love takes effort.
1Corinthians 13:4-7,
- Love suffereth long and is kind love envieth not love vaunteth not itself is not puffed up
Doth not behave itself unseemly seeketh not her own, is not easily provoked, thinketh no evil, rejoiceth not in iniquity but rejoiceth in the truth

You can see the effort that goes into all these things that love does and does not.



Emotion is not love. Love produces emotion.
Lust is strong desire.
This desire can be sexual.
Lust and love are not the same. But both involve emotions.

Agape love. Unconditional love.
Philia love. Brotherly love.
Storge love.Natural affection. Abortion is the absence of natural affection.
Eros love.Passinate love. Like in marriage.


If a person is lost then they must put forth effort to be saved.
Their effort does not merit salvation but God requires faithfulness and faithfulness requires effort.
Revelation 2:10, Matthew 10:22
- and ye shall be hated of all men for My names sake, but he that endureth till the end shall be saved

Yes, effort is required by Jesus to be saved.
Now in Dan's theology you can be a practicing pedophile and just believe in Jesus and you will be saved.
Even if you never stop the sin of pedophilia you cannot be lost.
Because your efforts cannot save you.
Only grace and belief with no keeping of Gods law saves in Dan's religion.

this is wrong on so many fronts ... Acts 17:30 Truly, these times of ignorance God overlooked, but now commands all men everywhere to repent,

Yes... a person, if lost must put in effort.... IF they want to be saved. Not all do.

But then How much effort did the Eunuch put in once he heard, and believed..... I say no much because he understood and
love and belief filled him.

Same with the Jailer, Lydia and Stephanus.

Repentance... as a command takes work.

Love of the Trinity does not, and faith/belief in the shed blood of Jesus does not.

This is not the love of you men and your wives and children. At least not for me.

It comes naturally as every breath I take.

But some of the repenting stuff that is still a work in progress... that takes work, beyond measure.

 

[mailmandan]

This proves once again that you reject obeying God to be saved.

I reject perverting the gospel. (Galatians 1:6-9) Refusing to obey the gospel by choosing to believe the gospel (2 Corinthians 4:3-4; Romans 10:16; 2 Thessalonians 1:8) and teaching salvation by works (Romans 4:2-6; 11:6; Ephesians 2:8,9; Titus 3:5; 2 Timothy 1:9) is not obeying God. There is also a difference between obeying God by doing His will in order to become saved (John 6:40) and obeying God by doing His will after we have been saved. (1 Thessalonians 5:14-18) Learn the difference.

Your religion is salvation through disobedience. Just believe but commandments are unnecessary.

False. Your religion is salvation by works which stems from unbelief. My religion is obeying the gospel by choosing to believe the gospel. My religion is obeying God by choosing to believe the gospel (Romans 1:16) in order to become saved which is not disobedience. I have also obeyed God by keeping (guarding, observing, watching over) His commandments after I have been saved. (1 John 2:3) This is not disobedience either. Unbelievers have not obeyed Him by refusing to believe the gospel (Romans 10:16) and without faith it's impossible to please God (Hebrews 11:6), so unbelievers do not obey Him no matter how much "so called" obedience that they attempt to conjure up through the flesh from an unregenerate heart in a vain attempt to obtain salvation by works. (Matthew 7:22-23) So, in either sense, its unbelievers who have a religion of salvation through disobedience which stems from self-righteousness. (Luke 18:9-14; Matthew 7:22-23)

Dan Noah was saved physically and spiritually by Gods grace.

Physically from drowning by the ark and spiritually by God's grace through faith.

Noah would have fallen from Gods grace if he would have disobeyed God.

Noah had authentic faith and truly believed God about the flood so disobeying God by refusing to build the ark was not an option for him.

its amazing to me that you are teaching Noah could disobey God drowned and still be saved.

When did I say that? Your straw man arguments are really getting old. I'm simply saying that Noah had already found grace in the eyes of the Lord and was a just man who walked with God BEFORE he built the ark. (Genesis 6:8,9)

Your religion has pedofile that do not repent just believe only going to heaven.
Obedience and true Biblical repentance does nothing for a mans soul.

That is not only a straw man argument. That is slander! You are a dishonest person. I have already said that we must first repent (change our mind) before we can believe the gospel and become saved. For someone to say that they truly believe the gospel but never repented is an oxymoron just as saying one has truly repented but they don't believe the gospel is also an oxymoron. Repentance toward God and faith in our Lord Jesus Christ are two sides to the same coin. (Acts 20:21) Inseparable. What you call obedience is actually salvation by works which is not true Biblical repentance.

Matthew 10:22,
- and you will be hated by everyone because of My name, but it is the one who endued to the end who will be saved

Descriptive of genuine believers. Perseverance is proof of genuine conversion. (Psalm 37:28; Jude 1:1) Do you believe that those who are born of God remain in a lost state in their lifetime until the end?

Jesus taught continuing in faithfulness to be saved.

Jesus is describing genuine believers. You turn continuing in faithfulness into "type 2 works salvation" or salvation by works at the back door.

You teach eternal salvation is a one moment in time of a persons belief. Romans 1:16, believeth means to continue in believing. Ongoing trust.

A genuine believer's belief is ongoing and so is their salvation so it's not a one moment in time event. Trust is ongoing.

This word is much more than intellectual agreement. Its living in dependance on Gods promises.
A trust so real it produces obedience.

Saving belief goes beyond intellectual agreement and involves trust and reliance in Jesus Christ for salvation. Obedience that is produced out of this belief, trust, reliance is works and we are saved through faith, not works. Living in dependance on God's promises is living the Christian life after one has been saved.

John 3:36,
- whoever believes in the Son has eternal life whoever does not obey the Son shall not see life but the wrath of God remains on him

John shows a clear contrast between believing and disobeying using two different Greek verbs.
This helps prove belief is more than mental assent it includes obedience.

John teaches if you dont obey Gods commandments then you don't really believe.
Dan by not believing you must do what God says to do you dont even have the very thing you claim is a must for salvation. Which is faith.

To not obey God is to not even believe God.

Here you go again. Trying to turn obedience into salvation by works. John is not talking about obeying God's commandments in John 3:36 in order to become saved. Believers keep (guard, observe, watch over) God's commandments AFTER they have been saved. (1 John 2:3) I often hear works-salvationists cite John 3:36 in the NASB and "stress" the word "obey" to imply that we are saved "by" obedience/works which follow believing then define that as believing. What a mess! In regard to "does not obey the Son" in the New American Standard translation of the Bible, this does not mean that receiving eternal life is received based on the merits of our obedience/works which "follow" believing in the Son but obey by choosing to believe in the Son.

If John wanted to make obedience the central theme in salvation here, he would have said: "He who believes and obeys the Son has eternal life," but that is not what John said. To obey the Son here is to choose to believe in the Son.

The King James Version renders this same verse as: He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that "believeth not the Son" shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him. The NIV says "rejects the Son" and the HCSB says, "refuses to believe in the Son." To refuse to believe in the Son is to disobey, rebel, be disloyal and refuse conformity. Strong’s definition of apeitheo is "to disbelieve willfully and perversely." *In the context of 3:36, to "not obey the Son" means to reject the Son by refusing to believe in the Son.

The gospel of Jesus Christ includes being baptized as a direct command of God Acts 10:47-48.

False. Water baptism is not included in the gospel. (Romans 1:16; 1 Corinthians 1:17; 15:1-4) The direct command to be water baptized was for these Gentiles in Acts 10:43-47 who already believed, received the gift of the Holy Spirit and were saved BEFORE water baptism.

Dan teaches you don't need to be baptized. It is optional.

I don't consider baptism optional, and I can't name one Christian that I know who has refused to be water baptized (including myself) but nowhere does the Bible say, "baptized or condemned." Your faith is in water baptism + other works for salvation and is not in Jesus Christ alone.

According to John Dan doesn't really believe the gospel of Jesus Christ. Because Dan believes obedience to certain commandments are not essential just optional.
Therefore obedience to Jesus is optional.

When all else fails, play the straw man card. Your false gospel of works righteousness is not obedience to Jesus.

To be saved according to Jesus one must believe.
If this first requirement is not met then being baptized will only get you wet.

John 3:18 - He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who (is not water baptized? - NO) does not believe is condemned already, because he has not (been water baptized? - NO) because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. Getting water baptized is more than just getting wet but it's not the means of our salvation. Just like partaking in the Lord's Supper is more than just eating crackers and drinking grape juice but it's not the means of our salvation either. Sorry to burst your bubble. I know you so desperately want to boast in your baptism.

Jesus never taught one requirement to be saved.
Jesus never told Paul all that was required of him was to believe only.

If water baptism is absolutely required for salvation, then we would expect Jesus to mention it in the following verses. (3:15,16,18; 5:24; 6:29,40,47; 11:25,26) Yet what is the ONE requirement that Jesus mentions NINE different times in each of these complete statements *BELIEVES. *What happened to baptism? *Hermeneutics.

Dan must ignore that Jesus told Paul, things he must do.
In Acts 9:6,
- and the Lord said unto him, arise go into the city and it shall be told thee what thou must do
Dan ignores scriptures that dont fit his ideas of what salvation means.

Titus ignores that suffering for Christ is what Paul must do as a chosen vessel of God to bear His name before Gentiles, kings, and the children. (Acts 9:15)

The Greek word must that Jesus used here means,
It is nessary.
It is required.
It is binding.
It is non-negotiable.

It's not about must do in order to become saved but must do now that he is saved. You really just don't get it.

This proves Paul must obey whatever Jesus commands him to do.
If Paul disobeys Paul will be lost.

Baptism is a command after one is saved. I can see that the so-called church of Christ has really done a number on you.

What does Jesus command Paul to do?
Acts 22:16,
- and now why are you waiting, Arise and be baptized and wash away your sins calling on the name of the Lord

Again, Paul had already believed in Christ when Ananias came to pray for him to receive his sight (Acts 9:17). It also should be noted that Paul at the time when Ananias prayed for him to receive his sight, he was filled with the Holy Spirit (Acts 9:17)--this was BEFORE he was water baptized (Acts 9:18). Verse 17 connects his being filled with the Spirit with the receiving of his sight. We know that he received his sight prior to his baptism.

In Acts 10:43, receiving remission of sins is connected with "believes in Him" and not with baptism (Acts 10:43-47). In Acts 9, Jesus told Ananias that Paul "is a chosen vessel unto Me" (vs 15), although the apostle had not yet been water baptized. Before Paul was baptized, Christ had already commissioned him to "bear His name before the Gentiles, and kings, and the children of Israel" (Acts 9:15) and such a commission is not for one who is still lost in their sins. Before Paul’s baptism, Christ had set him aside as one who would "suffer for His name’s sake" (9:16). Can one who is a child of the devil, as all the lost are (Ephesians 2:1-3, John 8:44), really suffer for Christ’s sake? NO.

Excellent article on Acts 22:16 - https://kentbrandenburg.blogspot.com/2015/03/acts-2216-baptism-essential-for.html

Paul had no other choice to be baptized into Christ, Galatians 3:26-27.
Baptism was not optional for Paul. Neither was it for Cornelius, Acts 10:47-48.
Yet Dan says it not essential therefore optional.
Gods direct commandments are not optional.

Galatians 3:26 - For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus (Period.) Not through faith and water baptism. Also read John 1:12 - But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, to those who believe in His name. *Received Him, given the right to become children of God, through believing in His name, not through water baptism. Galatians 3:27 - For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on/clothed yourself with Christ. The Greek word for "put on" is "enduo" and means to enclose oneself in, as when one "puts on" clothes or armor or some other item. Involved in this is the idea of "imitation" and "identification." Just as 1 Corinthians 10:2 says that all (the Israelites) were "baptized into Moses" in the cloud and in the sea, but this does not mean that the Israelites were literally water baptized into the body of Moses.

The allusion is to putting off old clothes and putting on new ones, to enclosing oneself in armor, etc. When a soldier puts on armor he is imitating his superiors and trainers, is revealing himself to be a soldier. One does not put on a uniform in order to become a soldier. Simply putting on a soldier's uniform does not make one become a soldier. Once one is made a soldier one is then able to put on and wear the uniform that distinguishes or marks them as a soldier.

It's the same with putting on a judge's robe. Simply putting on a robe in of itself, does not make anyone become a judge, but one who has been made a judge is qualified to put on judicial robes and thus declare their qualifications. This is signified in water baptism, but the reality is found in Spirit baptism.

So too with being water baptized, the Christian puts on robes for which they has previously been qualified to wear. The putting on of Christ is not what makes one become a Christian, but one which becomes a token of it, as in Romans 13:14. If one sets out to put on the clothes of a Christian, in water baptism, without first becoming a Christian (child of God through faith), then one becomes an imposter, and is declaring, in baptism, to be what they are not.

Other verses with this Greek word must.
Luke 24:46,
- thus it is written, that Christ  must suffer
Could Christ have chosen not to? Could anyone be saved if Christ chose not to?

Paul was already saved and the must referred to suffering for His sake. He was a chosen vessel. This is not about salvation by works. When are you finally going to get that through your head?

Acts 4:12,
- there is no other Name by which we  must be saved
Can we be saved by another name? Is it optional?

Christ alone. (John 10:9; 14:6)

Acts 14:22,
- We must through many tribulations enter the kingdom of God
Can anyone enter the kingdom of God without enduring tribulations? Are tribulations optional?
This means the only way to enter the kingdom is through persecution, hardship, spiritual testing.

I agree with Acts 14:22 and I have experienced tribulations as a Christian myself. This is descriptive of genuine believers.

Not in Dan's religion. One only needs to believe once in their lifetime. No need to endure till the end.

Your straw man argument has become a broken record.

John 3:7,
- you  must be born again
Is being born again optional? Or is it a must to salvation?

Being born again is not optional.

Jesus never taught all one must do is believe only. Jesus did not tell Paul this.

(John 3:15,16,18; %;245; 6:29,40,47; 11:25,26) What additional requirements did Jesus forget to mention here?

Matthew 28:19-20,
- go ye therefore and teach(gospel) all nations baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit
- teaching them(Acts 8:4) to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you...

So, believe the gospel and become saved (Romans 1:16) and now as a new disciple of Jesus, we are commanded to observe all things whatsoever Jesus has commanded us in order to become saved all over again or observe all things after we are saved?

Jesus commanded all obey all of His teachings. Not just the ones that fit your church's doctrine.

Salvation by works/false gospel fits your church's doctrine. Promoting salvation by works is not obeying His teachings.

Acts 8:4,
- therefore they that were scattered abroad went everywhere preaching the word

Preaching the word which does not include salvation by works. (Romans 4:2-6; Ephesians 2:8,9)