Faith and not by works is a dead faith according to James,
James 2:19-20 ; 24-26.
A bare profession of faith that "remains alone" (barren of works) is a dead faith according to James. (James 2:14) Key word
says/claims to have faith
but has no works.
Genuine faith has works of obedience.
Therefore faith absent of obedience is not a genuine faith by your own definition.
Genuine faith results in producing works of obedience. An empty profession of faith/dead faith that results in producing no works of obedience at all is not genuine faith. It's just that simple.
James never taught a dead faith (no obedience) is the root of faith.
I don't teach it either. Faith that trusts in Jesus Christ alone for salvation is alive in Christ and is the root of salvation. (Ephesians 2:5-10) Works of obedience are the fruit of salvation. You cannot seem to grasp this.
No root(works) demonstrates according to James a dead, worthless faith, belief alone. What according to James the faith the demons have.
Demons know Jesus is God. But they have no obedience to Jesus. Thus a workless/worthless faith.
James 2:19-20,
- thou believest there is one God, thou doest well the devils also believe and tremble,
- but wilt thou know O foolish man that faith without works is dead
In James 2:19, see that the demons believe "mental assent" that "there is one God," but they
do not believe in the Lord Jesus Christ (
Acts 16:31)
and are not saved. Believing that saves involve faith, trust and reliance (and not mere mental assent belief) yet their trust and reliance are in Satan (and not in Jesus) as demonstrated by their rebellion in heaven and continuous evil works. There is a difference between mere "mental assent" belief (as the demons have) and saving belief in Christ, which the demons do not have, and only genuine believers do have.
Not one passage refers to those who believe but do not submit to Jesus' gospel as Christians.
The new testament puts all Christians into the saved category.
All the lost in the new testament are non- Christian. They are the lost, alien sinners.
Sadly, many folks submit to a false gospel of works righteousness and not Jesus' gospel which is the
power of God unto salvation to everyone that
BELIEVES. (Romans 1:16)
Man does not make himself a Christian. God named His people christians.
All those who God saves are called Christian by God Himself.
This is why many who label themselves as Christian are believers but still lost alien sinners.
There are genuine believers (Acts 10:43; 13:38-39; 16:31) and there are make believers. (2 Corinthians 11:13, 24; Galatians 2:4) Many folks in various false religions and cults still label themselves as Christians.
Plenty of examples of believers in the Bible that were not obedient to the gospel so were never Christian.
John 12:42,
- nevertheless among the chief rulers also many believed on Jesus but because of the Pharisees they did not confess Him lest they be put out of the synagogue for they loved the praise of men more than the praise of God
In regard to John 12:42, we do not know the real condition of these "believing" rulers' hearts (mere mental assent belief James 2:19) or (trust and reliance saving belief John 3:16), but we do know that they loved men's praises (v. 43) more than God's. The unwillingness of the chief rulers to confess Christ in this isolated situation may throw doubt on the complete genuineness of their faith or did they simply have a weak moment in this isolated situation in front of the Pharisees? Does this mean they did not confess Christ to others?
The Apostle Peter at one point failed to confess Jesus before men (John 18:17-27), but after the Holy Spirit was given, he was a different man who boldly confessed Him. (Acts 4:8-13) We know that Peter was saved even though he had a weak moment and the same may be true for these chief rulers as well. Does the text specifically say that they were saved or not saved? If the chief rulers truly believed (trusted in Jesus Christ for salvation) even though they had a weak moment, then they are saved, but if their lack of confession was the result of a lack of genuine belief, then they are not saved. (John 3:18)
God defines what love is for Him. Not man.
According to God working Gods commandments in obedient faith is love.
Your faith alone is empty/void of obedient works thus void of love. A loveless belief, a loveless gospel.
1John 5:3,
- for this is the love of God that we keep His commandments and His commandments are not grevious
John 14:21,
- He that hath My commandments and keepeth them he it is that loveth Me and he that loveth Me shall be loved by My Father..
Straw man argument. You still don't understand what genuine believers mean by faith (rightly understood) in Jesus Christ "alone" for salvation (Romans 4:5-6; Ephesians 2:8,9) which is not to be confused with an empty profession of faith/dead faith that remains "alone" - barren of works. (James 2:14)
Now show me where I said saving faith in Christ does not work through love, does not result in producing works of obedience, does not result in keeping (guarding, observing, watching over) His commandments. I'll be waiting.
If one tries to find a passage that teaches one can love God by belief alone and no obedience, that passage cannot be found.
The Bible teaches only when one obeys God by working His commandments does that person love God.
Therefore being saved by a faith absent of no commandment keeping is a loveless salvation according to Gods definition of love for Him.
More tail wagging the dog/cart before the horse works-righteousness eisegesis. Man is made alive together with Christ by grace through faith FIRST then created in Christ Jesus UNTO/FOR good works. (Ephesians 2:5-10) Commandment keeping follows having been saved by grace through faith and is the demonstrative evidence that we know Him. (1 John 2:3)
Nowhere does James teach faith that does not obey Jesus' new testament gospel as absent of works can Justify.
Only a working faith justifies according to James.
James 2:24,
- ye see then how that by works a man is justified and not by faith alone (void of obedient works)
I already thoroughly explained this to you. Again, in James 2:24, James is not using the word "justified" here to mean "accounted as righteous" but is
shown to be righteous. James is discussing the
evidence of faith (
says-claims to have faith but has no works/I will show you my faith by my works -
James 2:14-18) and
not the initial act of being accounted as righteous with God. (
Romans 4:2-3)
The harmony of Romans 4:2-3 and James 2:24 is seen in the differing ways that Paul and James use the term "justified." Paul, when he uses the term, refers to the legal (judicial) act of God by which He
accounts the sinner as righteous. James, however, is using the term to describe those who would
show the genuineness of their faith by the works that they do.
Paul taught exactly as James that faith must work through love to have worth,
Galatians 5:6,
- for in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision is worth anything but faith which worketh by love
Paul said faith works through love and James said genuine faith produces works and I certainly agree. Yet neither Paul nor James said we are "saved" by works.
You admitted I'm teaching true saving Biblical faith.
Again you admit faith that does not work through love is not genuine faith.
Yet you demand the only faith that saves has no good works. No obedience.By your own definition of what genuine faith is, you are teaching a counterfeit faith saves.
You continue to misunderstand. Man is saved through faith apart from the merit of works yet genuine faith does not remain apart from the presence of works. Faith in Christ is the root of salvation and works are the fruit yet according to your doctrine both faith AND works are the root of salvation. You confuse cause and effect.
You continuously contradict yourself. But it's not your fault. It's the man made theology of the faith alone gospel.
All man made gospel's are inconsistent and contradict themselves. They expose themselves as a logical fallacy.
It only sounds like a contradiction to you because you teach a works gospel. Until you place your faith in Jesus Christ alone for salvation you will remain confused.
You admit your gospel does not require love for Jesus to be saved.
The Scriptures do not teach this,
1Corinthians 16:22,
- if any man love not the Lord Jesus Christ let him be accursed
Another straw man argument. I already explained that genuine believers love Jesus (1 John 4:7) and why they love Jesus. (Romans 5:5; 1 John 4:19) Agape love is not simply conjured up through the flesh from an unregenerate heart.
Galatians 1:8,
- but though we or an angel in heaven preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed
A works based false gospel is "another" gospel. The gospel is hid to those who DON'T BELIEVE. (2 Corinthians 4:3-4)
Calvinism teaches we are totally depraved, only wicked in our hearts with nothing good in us.
This is false doctrine.
I'm not a Calvinist.
The lost can love Jesus just as the prostitute women loved Jesus in her lost state.
God does not need to perform a miracle on the losts hearts in order that they can love Him.
Moral self reformation is not a substitute for regeneration.
This all comes from totally depraved from birth doctrine. Luke 7:36-50.
If one was totally wicked with total inability, then yes, God would need to work a miracle through the Holy Spirit to change our innate nature.
We are born with a corrupt nature (Psalm 51:5) but not so depraved that the Lord is incapable of drawing us and enabling us to come to Him. (John 6:44, 65) Becoming born again is miraculous and takes the Holy Spirit to accomplish. We cannot make ourselves become born again/born from above.
God does not create man with a totally depraved innately wicked nature.
Cornelius in Acts 10 was lost, yet he loved God and did good works, Acts 10:2,
- a devout man, and one that feared God with all his house which gave alms to the people and prayed to God alway
It's not that God created man with a corrupt nature. It's Adam's sin that wrecked things. (Romans 5:12) In regard to Cornelius, in Acts 11, we read that Peter came to tell the words by which Cornelius and all his household will be saved.
The cart before the horse is belief without obedience to be saved.
Faith/saved/obedience/works is the order. (Ephesians 2:8-10) Faith produces works and not the other way around.
God only saves those who obey, Hebrews 5:8-9,
- though He were a Son yet He learned obedience by the things which He suffered
- and being made perfect He became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey Him
So in
Hebrews 5:9, who obeys Him? The saved or the lost?
Only believers have obeyed Him by choosing to believe the gospel (
Romans 1:16) in order to become saved, and
only believers obey Him after they have been saved through faith by keeping His commandments (1 John 2:3) and practicing righteousness and not sin (
1 John 3:9,
10).
*In either sense, only believers obey Him.
Unbelievers have not obeyed Him by refusing to believe the gospel (
Romans 10:16) and without faith its impossible to please God (
Hebrews 11:6), so unbelievers do not obey Him no matter how much "so called" obedience that they attempt to conjure up through the flesh in a vain effort to receive salvation by works (
Matthew 7:22-23).
*So in either sense, unbelievers do not obey Him.
Acts 10:33;35,
- immediately therefore I sent to thee and thou hast well done that thou art come
- Now therefore are we all here present before God to hear all things that are commanded thee of God
- but in every nation he that feareth God and worketh righteousness is accepted by God
In regard to
Acts 10:33-35, working righteousness is the result of having been saved through faith. We are
not saved by works of righteousness which we have done (
Titus 3:5) but works of righteousness in connection with salvation are the
fruit of, but not the means of obtaining salvation. God accepts those who fear Him and work righteousness from a right principle, and to a right end, yet their fear of Him and working righteousness are not the origin of their acceptance; but are to be considered as descriptive of the persons, who are accepted by Him in Christ.
We must not confuse "descriptive" passages of scripture (
Acts 10:35) with "prescriptive" passages of scripture (
Acts 10:43). We are to rightly dividing the word of truth. (
2 Timothy 2:15) The question here is whether God's favor is made available to Jews only or is now available to Gentiles also (those in every nation who fear Him and work righteousness/does what is right) which Peter learned in his vision in Acts 10.
Paul was told by Jesus directly he had to do more than just believe.
Is that what Jesus said in John 3:15,16,18; 6:40,47; 11:25-26)? Do more than believe to be saved?
Paul was already a believer in Jesus on the road to Damascus.
Jesus told Paul there was things he must do.
You cannot be saved unless you do what must be done!!!
Hmm
.. how many "additional requirements" did Paul "add" to what he said in Acts 16:31 when he told the jailer what he must do to be saved? Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved. Plain and simple.
Acts 9:5-6,
- and Saul said, who art thou Lord
- and the Lord said, I am Jesus whom thou persecutest it is hard for thee to kick against the pricks
- and Saul trembling and astonished said, Lord what wilt thou have me to do, and the Lord said unto him,
- Arise and go into the city and it shall be told thee what thou must do
The geek word must that Jesus used means,
- it is nessary.
- One must
- it is binding
- it is required by duty, law, divine appointment
In Acts 9:15, we read - But the Lord said to him, “Go, for he is a chosen vessel of Mine to bear My name before Gentiles, kings, and the children of Israel. 16 For I will show him
how many things he must suffer for My name’s sake.” Suffering for the Lord's sake was what Paul
must do. If Paul rejected the Lord, then he would have done no more, but that was not the case.
When Jesus says that it will be told Paul what he must do.
Jesus is making obedience a necessity not an option!!!!
Read Acts 22:16 for what Jesus commanded Paul must do.
Excellent article on Acts 22:16 -
https://kentbrandenburg.blogspot.com/2015/03/acts-2216-baptism-essential-for.html
The word if means conditional.
John teaches those who know God, saved by God know him based upon the condition of their obedience to His commandments. So, not meeting this condition one is a liar if he claims to know God
1John 2:3-4
- and hereby we do know that we know God if(condition) we keep His commandments
- he that saith I know God and keepeth not His commandments is a liar and the truth is not in him
1 John 2:3 - By this we
know that we have come to know Him, (already know Him/already saved/demonstrative evidence) if we "keep" (Greek word "tereo" - guard, observe, watch over) His commandments. (descriptive of believers)
4 The one who
says, “I have come to know Him,” and does not keep (guard, observe, watch over) His commandments,
is a liar, and the truth is not in him. (descriptive of unbelievers)
John makes it clear the condition of being reconciled to God is obedience to Him.
Those that claim to know God but do not obey Him are liars and the truth is not in them.
John makes it clear that obedience to God is the
demonstrative evidence that we have been reconciled to Him. Once again you place the cart before the horse because you teach salvation by works/works righteousness.
John 17:3,
- and this is life eternal that they might know thee the only true God and Jesus Christ whom thou hast sent
To know God the Father and Jesus Christ is an intimate, experiential knowledge, found only in a relationship. The term "know" implies intimate, experiential knowledge, through a relationship with the Lord and not merely theoretical knowledge.
We are saved by grace through faith.
But faith must be Biblically defined.
If it is defined as void of obedience then it is not Biblical saving faith.
Faith is not defined as obedience/works. Faith is the assurance of things hoped for, the conviction of things not seen. (Hebrews 11:1) Obedience which "follows" is works and we are not saved by works. (Romans 4:2-6; 11:6; Ephesians 2:8,9; Titus 3:5; 2 Timothy 1:9) Again, faith is the root of salvation and works are the fruit. No fruit at all would demonstrate there is no root.
Paul in these verses is condemning boastful works or meritorious works which cannot save anyone.
In verse 10 Paul teaches God created us to do good works. Which is not the works being condemned in the previous verses, 8-9.
Any works that you "add" to salvation through faith would be boastful works because then those works would become meritorious towards receiving salvation. We are saved FOR good works and NOT BY good works. (Ephesians 2:10) You make the same argument about works that Roman Catholics.
Dan is not a Greek scholar nor am I.
What Dan cannot do is simply quote James teaching faith alone justifies.
Dan can only try to explain what James mean by what kind of faith saves.
What Dan can do and did is quote James' teaching in
context. In
James 2:14, we read of one who
SAYS/CLAIMS he has faith but has
no works (to
evidence his claim). That is not genuine faith, but a
bare profession of faith. So, when James asks, "Can
that faith save him?" he is saying nothing against genuine faith, but only against an
empty profession of faith/dead faith. So, James does not teach that we are saved "by" works. His concern is to
show the reality of the faith
professed by the individual (
James 2:18) and
demonstrate that the faith
claimed (
James 2:14) by the individual is
genuine. Simple!
In
James 2:24, James is not using the word "justified" here to mean "accounted as righteous" but is
shown to be righteous. James is discussing the
evidence of faith (
says-claims to have faith but has no works/I will show you my faith by my works -
James 2:14-18) and
not the initial act of being accounted as righteous with God. (
Romans 4:2-3) *Hermeneutics.
I can simply let James speak for himself,
James 2:20, 26
- but wilt thou know O, foolish man that faith without works is dead
You can simply let your eisegesis speak for itself and fail to quote James in context and also fail to properly harmonize scripture with scripture before reaching your conclusion on doctrine. In
James 2:20, "faith without works is dead" does not mean that faith is dead until it produces works and then it becomes a living faith or that works are the source of life in faith. That would be like saying that a tree is dead until it produces fruit and then it becomes a living tree, and the fruit is the source of life in the tree. James is simply saying faith that is not accompanied by evidential works
demonstrates that it's dead. If someone merely
says-claims they have faith, but lack
resulting evidential works, then they
demonstrate that they have an
empty profession of faith/dead faith and not authentic faith. (
James 2:14) Simple!
Verse 26 is James' conclusion on what kind of faith justifies.
- for as the body without the spirit is dead so faith without works is dead also
The comparison of the human spirit and faith converge around their modes of operation. The spirit (Greek pneuma) may also be translated "breath." As a breathless body exhibits no indication of life, so fruitless faith exhibits no indication of life. The source of the life in faith is not works; rather, life in faith is the source of works. (
Ephesians 2:5-10)
Not once does James ever speak of faith alone in the positive.
Only in the negative.
That's because James is talking about an empty profession of faith/dead faith that remains "alone" - barren of works (James 2:14) and not faith that trusts in Jesus Christ "alone" for salvation. (Romans 4:5-6; Ephesians 2:8,9) Learn the difference. A dead faith is not genuine faith but a bare profession of faith. You just can't seem to grasp this and there is a reason for that.
Dan they cannot be saved before they obeyed the gospel.
They cannot be saved before faith.
This is error.
Romans 1:5,
- by whom we have received grace and apostleship for obedience to the faith (gospel of Jesus Christ)
This means obedience to the gospel.
But it also can mean true obedience that comes from faith or faith in action.
What it cannot mean is faith absent/void of obedience.
We obey the gospel by choosing to believe the gospel. Romans 10:16 - But they have not all
obeyed the gospel. For Isaiah says, “Lord, who has
believed our report?” Man is saved by faith and not before faith. Obedience to the gospel is simply choosing to believe the gospel at which point we become saved. (Romans 1:16) Multiple acts of obedience which follow are works and we are not saved by works. Seeking salvation by works is neither of faith nor obedience. Again, the purpose of Paul’s apostleship was not merely to bring people to conversion but also to bring about transformed lives that were obedient to God after conversion.
Notice that Paul said they HAVE (already) received grace and apostleship FOR/UNTO
obedience to the faith. (
Romans 1:5) Just as in
Ephesians 2:10, Paul said that we are created in Christ Jesus FOR/UNTO good works. We are clearly saved FOR good works, NOT BY good works (
Ephesians 2:10). Paul did not say that they did not receive grace and apostleship until they produced obedience afterwards. We are justified (accounted as righteous) by faith.. (
Romans 5:1) not faith "and obedience/works" and we have access by faith into grace.. (
Romans 5:2) not faith "and obedience/works." We are saved through faith in Jesus Christ first, having been made alive together with Christ, by grace through faith we were saved, not by works, then "unto" obedience/works. (
Ephesians 2:5-10) You have the cart before the horse.
KJV translates the verse as faith being the gospel.
ESV translates faith as personal faith, obedience that comes from faith.
Other translations say obedience to the faith and obedience that comes from faith. This does not mean that we are saved by obedience/works which are produced out of faith or that faith in essence is multiple acts of obedience/works.
Paul teaches all throughout Romans true faith is obedient to Gods commandments.
True faith results in keeping (guarding, observing, watching over) God's commandments which is obedience. (1 John 2:3)
Heres proof we are saved by faith that obeys Gods commandments.
We are saved by faith in Jesus Christ FIRST and genuine faith keeps (guards, observes, watches over) God's commandments. Yet we are not saved based on the merits of keeping His commandments/salvation by works as you so desperately want to believe and boast in.
Paul teaches this is how one is justified exactly as James teaches.
Romans 6:7; 17-18,
- for he that is dead is freed(Greek word means justified) from sin
- but God be thanked that ye were the servants of sin but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered unto you
- being then made free(to be set free from the bondage of sin) from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness
Paul teaches the faith that saves is the faith that obeys that form of doctrine (Jesus' new testament gospel).
Nobody is arguing that faith which saves is faith that does not result in obedience/works yet we are still saved by faith and not by works.
In regard to
Romans 6:16, works-salvationists typically ignore "servants of obedience unto righteousness" and simply stress "obedience unto righteousness" as if works of obedience which "follow saving faith in Christ" are "unto righteousness," as if we are saved by works. Now there are only two kinds of servants in this world, in the spiritual sense:
servants of sin unto death, or
servants of obedience unto righteousness.
In verse 17, before they obeyed that form of doctrine by choosing to believe the gospel (Romans 1:16), they had been slaves to sin. Romans 10:16 - But they have not all
obeyed the gospel. For Isaiah says, "Lord, who has
believed our report?"1 Peter 1:22 notice -
"Purified your souls in obeying the truth" and notice in Acts 15:9 -
"Purified their hearts by faith."
When we place our faith exclusively in Jesus Christ for salvation/believe the gospel by trusting in His finished work of redemption as the ALL-sufficient means of our salvation we then become "servants of obedience unto righteousness." Being servants of sin is put in the past tense. Paul goes on in
Romans 6:18 -
"Being then made free from sin, you became the servants of righteousness."
Notice in
Romans 10:10 - For with the
heart (not just with the head) one
believes unto righteousness.
Notice in
Romans 4:5 - But to him who does not work but
believes on Him who justifies the ungodly,
his faith (not works)
is accounted for righteousness.
