Bible Contradictions (ever heard this one before from skeptics?)

Rom 3:22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of in Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:

Gal 2:16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of in Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.


Php 3:9 And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of in Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:
Appears one of us has a contradictory translation(s)...

For what if some did not believe? shall their unbelief make the faith of God without effect?
Romans 3:3

God is faithful,
by whom ye were called unto the fellowship of his Son Jesus Christ our Lord.
1 Corinthians 1:9

There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it.
1 Corinthians 10:13

But as God is true,
our word toward you was not yea and nay.
2 Corinthians 1:18

Faithful is he
that calleth you, who also will do it.
1 Thessalonians 5:24

But the Lord is faithful, who shall stablish you, and keep you from evil.
2 Thessalonians 3:3

Don't miss this one now...

If WE BELIEVE NOT, yet HE ABIDETH FAITHFUL: HE CANNOT DENY HIMSELF.
2 Timothy 2:13



The verses above highlight that God's faithfulness is unwavering, regardless of our own faithfulness.
This same faithfulness of God applies to His chosen people, Israel...


Israel To Be Renewed For His Name's Sake
Ezekiel 36:22-28


Therefore say unto the house of Israel, Thus saith the Lord GOD; I do not this for your sakes, O house of Israel, but for mine holy name's sake, which ye have profaned among the heathen, whither ye went.

And I will sanctify my great name, which was profaned among the heathen, which ye have profaned in the midst of them; and the heathen shall know that I am the LORD, saith the Lord GOD, when I shall be sanctified in you before their eyes.

For I will take you from among the heathen, and gather you out of all countries, and will bring you into your own land.

Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you.

A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.

And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.

And ye shall dwell in the land that I gave to your fathers; and ye shall be my people, and I will be your God.



The last three verses are in regards to the New Covenant God will make w/ them.
New Covenant = born again, non-apostate Israel.
 
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Appears one of us has a contradictory translation(s)...

For what if some did not believe? shall their unbelief make the faith of God without effect?
Romans 3:3
It is bad enough that any would think that Jesus Christ would have or need faith in God, but to think that God would have or need faith in anything is almost heresy. There are indeed some things, some passages, that the KJV is just wrong.

Rom 3:3

(ASV) For what if some were without faith? shall their want of faith make of none effect the faithfulness of God?

(ESV)What if some were unfaithful? Does their faithlessness nullify the faithfulness of God?

(NASB) What then? If some did not believe, their unbelief will not nullify the faithfulness of God, will it?

(NIV) What if some were unfaithful? Will their unfaithfulness nullify God's faithfulness?

(NKJV) For what if some did not believe? Will their unbelief make the faithfulness of God without effect?
 
SMH.... How does one get one to read and understand why they are wrong before anyone thells them they are.
First point.... the Claim About the Audience of Ephesians
You assert that Saul wrote solely to "Jews and Jewish Christians" in Ephesus, implying an exclusively Jewish context.
You are wrong and this is why. The epistle was addressed to a mixed church community in a Gentile-dominated city.
And here is how we know that...
Ephesus was a major port city in Asia Minor (modern Turkey) with a significant Jewish population, but by the time of Paul's writing (around AD 60-62), the church there included both Jewish and Gentile converts.
Jews called mixed-race Jews of the northern kingdom tribes, "Samaritan" and not Jew with the same prejudice that Jews called mixed-race, southern kingdom Jews of the Diaspora "Gentile" and not "Jew." These were Jews that were the offspring of Jews who were exiled to Babylon and for 29-35 generations of births they grew up as Gentile ignorant of their Hebrew heritage, which caused Saul to write:

1 PAUL, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, to the saints which are at Ephesus, and to the faithful in Christ Jesus: Ephesians 1:1.

The Old Testament identifies Hebrews as "saints" by God only. Here's an example:

15 Precious in the sight of the LORD
Is the death of his saints.
Psalms 116:15.

But because of your false Constantinian Gentile theology you change the meaning of who a "saint" is before the Lord, which in the Old Testament "saint(s)" identifies the Hebrews. On top of that God is betrothed to Israel and as the Song of Solomon the "beloved" of the Lord again is Israel, His Bride.

6 To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved. Ephesians 1:6.


16 Behold, thou art fair, my beloved, yea, pleasant:
Also our bed is green. Songs of Solomon 1:16.

Saul also identifies the seed of Abraham and his descendants as those who are inheritors of the Abrahamic Promises, mainly, his Hebrew seed:

11 In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will: Ephesians 1:11.

Saul also speaks, or writes, of the "Holy Spirit of Promise who through the prophet Joel God's Spirit was promised to Israel, NOT Gentiles. And again, he identifies Israel as inheritors of the Abraham Promises. It's the same language Peter spoke to the twelve tribes gathered on the Jewish day of the Feast of Harvest, which again, is Jewish:

13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
14 Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory. Ephesians 1:12–14.

38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call. Acts 2:37–39.

And who are they that are "afar off" but Jews of the Diaspora who live in Gentile land.

12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:
13 But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ. Ephesians 2:12–13.

The "blood of Christ" was shed to and for Israel:

28 For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins. Matthew 26:27–28.

Echoing what Isaiah said:

11 He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied:
By his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many;
For he shall bear their iniquities.
Isaiah 53:11.

45 For even the Son of man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister, and to give his life a ransom for many. Mark 10:45.

Saul also identifies the "Law" in his letter to Jews and Jewish Christians at Ephesus:

15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace; Ephesians 2:15.

The "one new man" is the joining in Christ of the two flocks of the Lord, Jews, and mixed-race Jews, who were because of the mixed heritage were at enmity with Jews who were of Hebrew stock only:

16 And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd. John 10:16.

Gentiles have stolen everything Jewish and Hebrew and made it into Gentile with Gentile re-interpretation that elevates and substitutes all that is Hebrew to make it Gentile. But because of your blindness and bias and prejudice against everything God gave and gives to Israel, His Bride, have taken and made it Gentile.
Everything in the next passages screams "HEBREW" and "ISRAEL" but you misinterpret the Holy Word and make it say "Gentile." Look at what Saul writes using terminology that is Hebrew and originates in the Hebrew Scripture to identify the children of Israel:

17 And came and preached peace to you which were afar off, and to them that were nigh.
18 For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father.
19 Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God;
20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;
21 In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord:
22 In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit. Ephesians 2:17–22.

Now, where do we first see such language? Chief cornerstone? Oh, yes, in the Law and the Prophets.

16 Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD,
Behold, I lay in Zion for a foundation a stone,
A tried stone, a precious corner stone, a sure foundation:
He that believeth shall not make haste.
Isaiah 28:16.

The whole letter has references from the Old Testament Hebrew Scripture of Law, Psalms, and the Prophets. WHY do you take the Hebrew Scripture passages and make them apply to non-Hebrew Gentiles? THAT is anathema.
And again, Saul references the Old Testament Hebrew Scripture:

5 Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit; Ephesians 3:5. (the Spirit of Promise PROMISED TO ISRAEL by Joel, a Hebrew prophet sent to the southern kingdom tribes of Judah and Benjamin.)

8 Unto me, who am less than the least of all saints, is this grace given, that I should preach among the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ; Ephesians 3:7–8.

"Among" the Gentiles because that's where God scattered His people through their exile by Assyria and Babylon, circa 722 and 586 BC, respectively. Shall I continue? How many more clues and marks of identification do you need to see Saul wrote to Jews and Jewish Christians living in Gentile lands, Ephesus, for one - exactly where God scattered His people, and later to gather them up again:

7 Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD; I have lifted up mine hand, Surely the heathen that are about you, they shall bear their shame. Ezekiel 36:7.

24 For I will take you from among the heathen, and gather you out of all countries, and will bring you into your own land.
25 Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you.
26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.
27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.
28 And ye shall dwell in the land that I gave to your fathers; and ye shall be my people, and I will be your God.
Ezekiel 36:24–28.

All these things are promised of God to Israel and the children of Israel.
And THIS:

8 Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men.
9 (Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth?
10 He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things.) Ephesians 4:7–10.

Now, where have we seen that language before? Oh, yes...right here in the Hebrew Scripture:

17 The chariots of God are twenty thousand, even thousands of angels:
The Lord is among them, as in Sinai, in the holy place.
18 Thou hast ascended on high, thou hast led captivity captive:
Thou hast received gifts for men;
Yea, for the rebellious also, that the LORD God might dwell among them.
Psalms 68:17–18.

Again, WHY do you take what is Hebrew and turn it into Gentile? Everything in Saul's letter to Ephesus is written to the Jew and Jewish Christians living there in this Gentile land.
Actually, Paul's letter to the Ephesians was written to a diverse church in a Gentile city, including both Jewish and non-Jewish believers. The epistle itself talks about reconciling Jews and Gentiles into one body through Christ (Eph 2:11-22), which wouldn't make sense if it was only for Jews. Saul/Paul was commissioned to preach to Gentiles (Acts 9:15), so this fits his overall mission, not some later 'Gentile twist.'"
As I have proved above Saul is writing to Jews and Jewish Christians and mixed-race Hebrews of Gentile offspring. They are STILL the seed of Abraham.

Funny that you see oblivious to the fact that Saul's name was changed to Paul after God chose him for the "Gentiles".
You keep talking about Saul, yet you ignore what God chose him to do.. Oh well, just another jab at God.
Saul remained Saul. The change to Paul was to accommodate the mixed-race Hebrews of Gentile descent. These mixed-race Jews knew almost nothing of their Hebrew heritage. They were aliens from the COMMONWEALTH of Israel.

Now, let's address your accusation of .... 'False Constantinian Gentile Theology'

You seem to think that Emperor Constantine (AD 306-337) corrupted Christianity by making it a state religion, shifting it from its Jewish roots to a 'Gentile' (non-Jewish, imperial) framework. While Constantine did influence Christianity's public role, this claim exaggerates his theological impact and ignores that Gentile inclusion started much earlier.
How many Jews were at the Council of Nicaea? How many at the Council at Constantinople? You are merely holding to false Constantinian Gentile theology that changed and changes everything Hebrew and made it Gentile.
Fact: I have studied this.... Christianity's expansion to Gentiles began in the 1st century with Paul and the apostles (e.g., Acts 15's Jerusalem Council decided Gentiles didn't need to follow all Jewish laws). Constantine converted around AD 312 and ended persecutions via the Edict of Milan (AD 313), making Christianity tolerated and later favored. He convened the Council of Nicaea (AD 325) to resolve doctrinal disputes like Arianism, but he didn't invent core beliefs...he helped standardize them for unity in the empire. Myths like Constantine 'creating the Bible' or making Christianity the state religion are debunked; the canon was forming before him, and Theodosius I made it official in AD 380. 'Hellenization' (Greek influences) predates Constantine, starting with the New Testament written in Greek.
Constantine's "conversion" was a false conversion, for one, he was not Hebrew, nor an Israelite for the Holy Spirit of Promise was PROMISED TO ISRAEL by Joel NOT Gentiles.
Another fact is "Constantine's role was more political—he stopped persecuting Christians and promoted unity, but he didn't create a 'false Gentile theology.' Gentile inclusion in Christianity started with Paul in the 1st century (Romans 11:13), not Constantine. The New Testament itself is in Greek, reflecting early outreach beyond Jews. Labeling this 'false' ignores the apostles' own decisions at the Jerusalem Council (Acts 15)."
The letters of the New Testament are written in Greek because the mixed-race Jews were Hellenized, who grew up in Gentile land (Corinth, Ephesus, etc.), heavily influenced by Greek culture and language. Speaking or writing Hebrew and/or Aramaic would be not be understood to Greek-speaking mixed heritage Jews who knew only Greek and not Hebrew.
Did you catch this????? Gentile inclusion in Christianity started with Paul in the 1st century (Romans 11:13),

Now, lets look at your racist comment of " 'White Jesus' Example as Evidence of Gentile Corruption

Jesus was a 1st-century Jew from Galilee, likely with Middle Eastern features (olive skin, dark hair). Early Christian art (2nd-4th centuries) often showed him as a beardless youth or shepherd, influenced by Roman styles, not explicitly 'white.' Byzantine icons (post-Constantine) depicted him with darker features. The 'white Jesus' trope emerged in medieval/Renaissance Europe (e.g., Albrecht Dürer's self-portrait-like Jesus in 1500), reflecting artists' cultural contexts. In other cultures, Jesus is portrayed as Black (Africa), Asian (East Asia), or Indigenous—it's adaptive, not doctrinal. The Bible doesn't describe his appearance (Isaiah 53:2 says he had "no beauty"), so art isn't prescriptive.
Christ was Promised to Israel and to Israel He came. He taught Jews.

15 The LORD thy God will raise up unto thee a Prophet from the midst of thee, of thy brethren, like unto me; unto him ye shall hearken; Deuteronomy 18:15.

John the Baptist heralds the coming of Christ who was prophesied to Israel:

31 And I knew him not: but that he should be made manifest to Israel, therefore am I come baptizing with water.
John 1:30–31.

Baptizing with water. The son of Zacharias, who was a priest serving the Temple and God. These Jewish rituals that are in the Law and re-interpreted by Gentiles to and for Gentiles, but the truth and the facts remain: Jesus is a Jew sent to and for the Jew:

24 But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel. Matthew 15:24.

Your Gentile re-interpretations of the Hebrew bible make Jesus a liar by making Him serve Gentile theology which are lies. Christ was promised to Israel and to Israel He came.
And gone.
And to Israel will come again.

You need to bring your theology in line with the Law and the Prophets and stop re-interpreting Hebrew Scripture to make it apply to non-Hebrew Gentiles.
That is your sin. That is your error.
And it is false.
 
Racist garbage.
Well, then, God is racist.

13 And there came one that had escaped, and told Abram the Hebrew; Genesis 14:13.

Clearly, God chose a man of Hebrew birth from the seed of Eber.

Abram married his half-sister, and two Hebrew parents birthed a Hebrew child. Gentiles do not come from the loins of Abraham. They come from Ham and Japheth.
 
You need to bring your theology in line with the Law and the Prophets and stop re-interpreting Hebrew Scripture to make it apply to non-Hebrew Gentiles.
That is your sin. That is your error.
And it is false.
It is you who misinterprets Scripture.
That is your sin. That is your error.
And it is false.

Rom 1:13 I want you to know, brothers, that I have often intended to come to you (but thus far have been prevented), in order that I may reap some harvest among you as well as among the rest of the Gentiles. 14 I am under obligation both to Greeks and to barbarians, both to the wise and to the foolish. 15 So I am eager to preach the gospel to you also who are in Rome.

"Gentiles" from the Greek word ἔθνος [ethnos]

From Strong's G1484

ἔθνος
ethnos
eth'-nos
Probably from G1486; a race (as of the same habit), that is, a tribe; specifically a foreign (non-Jewish) one (usually by implication pagan): - Gentile, heathen, nation, people.

"Greeks" from the Greek word Ἕλλην [Hellēn]:

From Strong's G1672

Ἕλλην
Hellēn
hel'-lane
From G1671; a Hellen (Grecian) or inhabitant of Hellas; by extension a Greek speaking person, especially a non-Jew: - Gentile, Greek.

"Barbarians" from the Greek word βάρβαρος [barbaros]:

From Strong's G915

βάρβαρος
barbaros
bar'-bar-os
Of uncertain derivation; a foreigner (that is, non Greek): - barbarian (-rous).
 
Well, then, God is racist.

13 And there came one that had escaped, and told Abram the Hebrew; Genesis 14:13.

Clearly, God chose a man of Hebrew birth from the seed of Eber.

Abram married his half-sister, and two Hebrew parents birthed a Hebrew child. Gentiles do not come from the loins of Abraham. They come from Ham and Japheth.
You need to read and study the New Testament. As it stands you are terribly ignorant of so much of it.
 
Jews called mixed-race Jews of the northern kingdom tribes, "Samaritan" and not Jew with the same prejudice that Jews called mixed-race, southern kingdom Jews of the Diaspora "Gentile" and not "Jew." These were Jews that were the offspring of Jews who were exiled to Babylon and for 29-35 generations of births they grew up as Gentile ignorant of their Hebrew heritage, which caused Saul to write:

1 PAUL, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, to the saints which are at Ephesus, and to the faithful in Christ Jesus: Ephesians 1:1.

The Old Testament identifies Hebrews as "saints" by God only. Here's an example:

15 Precious in the sight of the LORD
Is the death of his saints.
Psalms 116:15.

But because of your false Constantinian Gentile theology you change the meaning of who a "saint" is before the Lord, which in the Old Testament "saint(s)" identifies the Hebrews. On top of that God is betrothed to Israel and as the Song of Solomon the "beloved" of the Lord again is Israel, His Bride.

6 To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved. Ephesians 1:6.


16 Behold, thou art fair, my beloved, yea, pleasant:
Also our bed is green. Songs of Solomon 1:16.

Saul also identifies the seed of Abraham and his descendants as those who are inheritors of the Abrahamic Promises, mainly, his Hebrew seed:

11 In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will: Ephesians 1:11.

Saul also speaks, or writes, of the "Holy Spirit of Promise who through the prophet Joel God's Spirit was promised to Israel, NOT Gentiles. And again, he identifies Israel as inheritors of the Abraham Promises. It's the same language Peter spoke to the twelve tribes gathered on the Jewish day of the Feast of Harvest, which again, is Jewish:

13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
14 Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory. Ephesians 1:12–14.

38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call. Acts 2:37–39.

And who are they that are "afar off" but Jews of the Diaspora who live in Gentile land.

12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:
13 But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ. Ephesians 2:12–13.

The "blood of Christ" was shed to and for Israel:

28 For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins. Matthew 26:27–28.

Echoing what Isaiah said:

11 He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied:
By his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many;
For he shall bear their iniquities.
Isaiah 53:11.

45 For even the Son of man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister, and to give his life a ransom for many. Mark 10:45.

Saul also identifies the "Law" in his letter to Jews and Jewish Christians at Ephesus:

15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace; Ephesians 2:15.

The "one new man" is the joining in Christ of the two flocks of the Lord, Jews, and mixed-race Jews, who were because of the mixed heritage were at enmity with Jews who were of Hebrew stock only:

16 And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd. John 10:16.

Gentiles have stolen everything Jewish and Hebrew and made it into Gentile with Gentile re-interpretation that elevates and substitutes all that is Hebrew to make it Gentile. But because of your blindness and bias and prejudice against everything God gave and gives to Israel, His Bride, have taken and made it Gentile.
Everything in the next passages screams "HEBREW" and "ISRAEL" but you misinterpret the Holy Word and make it say "Gentile." Look at what Saul writes using terminology that is Hebrew and originates in the Hebrew Scripture to identify the children of Israel:

17 And came and preached peace to you which were afar off, and to them that were nigh.
18 For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father.
19 Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God;
20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;
21 In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord:
22 In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit. Ephesians 2:17–22.

Now, where do we first see such language? Chief cornerstone? Oh, yes, in the Law and the Prophets.

16 Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD,
Behold, I lay in Zion for a foundation a stone,
A tried stone, a precious corner stone, a sure foundation:
He that believeth shall not make haste.
Isaiah 28:16.

The whole letter has references from the Old Testament Hebrew Scripture of Law, Psalms, and the Prophets. WHY do you take the Hebrew Scripture passages and make them apply to non-Hebrew Gentiles? THAT is anathema.
And again, Saul references the Old Testament Hebrew Scripture:

5 Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit; Ephesians 3:5. (the Spirit of Promise PROMISED TO ISRAEL by Joel, a Hebrew prophet sent to the southern kingdom tribes of Judah and Benjamin.)

8 Unto me, who am less than the least of all saints, is this grace given, that I should preach among the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ; Ephesians 3:7–8.

"Among" the Gentiles because that's where God scattered His people through their exile by Assyria and Babylon, circa 722 and 586 BC, respectively. Shall I continue? How many more clues and marks of identification do you need to see Saul wrote to Jews and Jewish Christians living in Gentile lands, Ephesus, for one - exactly where God scattered His people, and later to gather them up again:

7 Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD; I have lifted up mine hand, Surely the heathen that are about you, they shall bear their shame. Ezekiel 36:7.

24 For I will take you from among the heathen, and gather you out of all countries, and will bring you into your own land.
25 Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you.
26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.
27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.
28 And ye shall dwell in the land that I gave to your fathers; and ye shall be my people, and I will be your God.
Ezekiel 36:24–28.

All these things are promised of God to Israel and the children of Israel.
And THIS:

8 Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men.
9 (Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth?
10 He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things.) Ephesians 4:7–10.

Now, where have we seen that language before? Oh, yes...right here in the Hebrew Scripture:

17 The chariots of God are twenty thousand, even thousands of angels:
The Lord is among them, as in Sinai, in the holy place.
18 Thou hast ascended on high, thou hast led captivity captive:
Thou hast received gifts for men;
Yea, for the rebellious also, that the LORD God might dwell among them.
Psalms 68:17–18.

Again, WHY do you take what is Hebrew and turn it into Gentile? Everything in Saul's letter to Ephesus is written to the Jew and Jewish Christians living there in this Gentile land.

As I have proved above Saul is writing to Jews and Jewish Christians and mixed-race Hebrews of Gentile offspring. They are STILL the seed of Abraham.


Saul remained Saul. The change to Paul was to accommodate the mixed-race Hebrews of Gentile descent. These mixed-race Jews knew almost nothing of their Hebrew heritage. They were aliens from the COMMONWEALTH of Israel.


How many Jews were at the Council of Nicaea? How many at the Council at Constantinople? You are merely holding to false Constantinian Gentile theology that changed and changes everything Hebrew and made it Gentile.

Constantine's "conversion" was a false conversion, for one, he was not Hebrew, nor an Israelite for the Holy Spirit of Promise was PROMISED TO ISRAEL by Joel NOT Gentiles.

The letters of the New Testament are written in Greek because the mixed-race Jews were Hellenized, who grew up in Gentile land (Corinth, Ephesus, etc.), heavily influenced by Greek culture and language. Speaking or writing Hebrew and/or Aramaic would be not be understood to Greek-speaking mixed heritage Jews who knew only Greek and not Hebrew.

Christ was Promised to Israel and to Israel He came. He taught Jews.

15 The LORD thy God will raise up unto thee a Prophet from the midst of thee, of thy brethren, like unto me; unto him ye shall hearken; Deuteronomy 18:15.

John the Baptist heralds the coming of Christ who was prophesied to Israel:

31 And I knew him not: but that he should be made manifest to Israel, therefore am I come baptizing with water.
John 1:30–31.

Baptizing with water. The son of Zacharias, who was a priest serving the Temple and God. These Jewish rituals that are in the Law and re-interpreted by Gentiles to and for Gentiles, but the truth and the facts remain: Jesus is a Jew sent to and for the Jew:

24 But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel. Matthew 15:24.

Your Gentile re-interpretations of the Hebrew bible make Jesus a liar by making Him serve Gentile theology which are lies. Christ was promised to Israel and to Israel He came.
And gone.
And to Israel will come again.

You need to bring your theology in line with the Law and the Prophets and stop re-interpreting Hebrew Scripture to make it apply to non-Hebrew Gentiles.
That is your sin. That is your error.
And it is false.
Are you identical twins or just fraternal. You and my Savior because only he had perfect knowledge as you try to push on us.
 
It is you who misinterprets Scripture.
That is your sin. That is your error.
And it is false.

Rom 1:13 I want you to know, brothers, that I have often intended to come to you (but thus far have been prevented), in order that I may reap some harvest among you as well as among the rest of the Gentiles. 14 I am under obligation both to Greeks and to barbarians, both to the wise and to the foolish. 15 So I am eager to preach the gospel to you also who are in Rome.

"Gentiles" from the Greek word ἔθνος [ethnos]

From Strong's G1484



"Greeks" from the Greek word Ἕλλην [Hellēn]:

From Strong's G1672



"Barbarians" from the Greek word βάρβαρος [barbaros]:

From Strong's G915
The fellowship in Rome was founded by Jews and mixed heritage Jews of the Diaspora when they returned to their homes and synagogues after they visited Jerusalem for the Passover and the Feast of Harvest circa AD 34, the date when the "Holy Spirit of Promise" PROMISED TO ISRAEL descended and was the inauguration of the Church Jesus promised to build, which was populated by Jews. Three thousand Jews according to Acts 2:41.

7 And they were all amazed and marvelled, saying one to another, Behold, are not all these which speak Galilaeans? 8 And how hear we every man in our own tongue, wherein we were born?
9 Parthians, and Medes, and Elamites, and the dwellers in Mesopotamia, and in Judaea, and Cappadocia, in Pontus, and Asia,
10 Phrygia, and Pamphylia, in Egypt, and in the parts of Libya about Cyrene, and strangers of Rome, Jews and proselytes,
11 Cretes and Arabians, we do hear them speak in our tongues the wonderful works of God. Acts 2:7–11.

In the beginning these born-again Jews attended their own synagogues and participated in these fellowships, but in time the unconverted Jews came to a great difficulty in the testimony they were hearing about this Jesus of Nazareth and the fact the people held Him up as Lord, Savior, Messiah, prophet, deliverer, and King, for they stumbled at the stumbling stone and it was this: they could not reconcile how this Jesus who was claimed to be the Savior and King of Israel was 'hung on a tree.' To the Jews anyone who 'hung on a tree' - in this case, crucifixion, was cursed of God according to the Law of Moses. They could not readily comprehend the fact that their supposed Messiah and King also 'hung on a tree' (crucifixion) could be cursed of God and also be their Lord and Savior and promised "prophet like unto Moses." At first, as what happened with Saul, the unconverted Jews of the synagogues blasphemed, then persecuted, and were 'injurious' which in time led to outright persecution and killing of anyone who claimed to be a follower of the Way (Yeshua bar Yosef.) In this occurrence Stephen was the first to be killed and Saul was the instigator and complicit in his death. It says there was great persecution at the hands of their Jewish brethren.

1 And Saul was consenting unto his death.
And at that time there was a great persecution against the church which was at Jerusalem; and they were all scattered abroad throughout the regions of Judaea and Samaria, except the apostles. Acts 8:1.

This happened first in Jerusalem but in time became widespread. There were some Jews who caused trouble for Saul in accusing him of causing riots and social upheavals because he preached Jesus of Nazareth as Israel Lord, Savior, and King of the Jews (King of the Jews" was the accusation nailed to His cross as ordered by Pontius Pilate when Jesus was crucified.) Saul suffered at the hands of his Jewish brethren for his testimony of Jesus. By the time we arrive at Acts 6 it says that a "great company of priests were obedient to the faith" with "great company" numerically referring to over half of the seventy in the Sanhedrin. These are the elders that sat with Peter and the other apostles to hear the controversy brought to them from certain churches as to whether born-again mixed-race Jews who grew up Gentile heavily influenced by Greek culture needed to be circumcised in order to truly be saved. The question was taken up at a council in Jerusalem (Jerusalem Council) which took place in AD 50. This was a meeting of Jewish Christians who gave answer to their brethren which answer was taken back to them along with Silas and Barnabas and their verdict was this:

28 For it seemed good to the Holy Ghost, and to us, to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things;
29 That ye abstain from meats offered to idols, and from blood, and from things strangled, and from fornication: from which if ye keep yourselves, ye shall do well. Fare ye well. Acts 15:28–29.

While circumcision of these mixed-race Jews was deemed unnecessary, the apostles and elders led by Jesus' half-brother, James, skipped over the question of circumcision and instead instructed the mixed-race Jews to obey four aspects of the Law of Moses as noted above.

First, no Jew or Jewish Christ would ever seek to circumcise any non-Hebrew Gentiles for all Jews knew their covenant is made between God and Abraham and with his Hebrew seed. Nor would Jews ever compel any non-Hebrew Gentile to obey the Law of Moses for again, the Jews knew they are the seed of Abraham and heirs of his promises as well as recipient of a covenant established through Moses centuries ago which bears his name. In this Mosaic Covenant God gives His Law to the children of Israel in the desert at the time of Moses and the earthly Tabernacle. This covenant came in three parts: the Moral Law(s), the Social Law(s), and the Ceremonial Law(s), which provided for the temporary atonement of the sins of the children of Israel under the Law through the Ceremonial Law instructing and commanding substitutionary sacrificial offering of certain animals to propitiate God's wrath against sin - even in His own people the Jews. If these mixed-race "Gentiles" were actual non-Hebrew Gentiles, the people would rise up and there would be riots in the streets - and in the Temple area - if these "Gentiles" were actual non-Hebrew Gentiles. Yet there is nothing of the sort recorded in the New Testament of such riots occurring.

Jews were prejudicial against their enemy, non-Hebrew Gentiles, and did not ever seek to circumcise or compel any non-Hebrew according to the Law of Moses. It never happened. And Saul, who was a rabbi and Pharisee never sought to perform these rites upon any non-Hebrew. Saul's letter to Jews and Jewish Christians at Rome was not addressed to non-Hebrew Gentiles. All the New Covenant writings from Matthew to Revelation were written to Jews and Jewish Christians in these Gentile cities where God had scattered them in the past by first the Assyrians and later, the Babylonians. Jews who were the seed of Abraham and had recorded their ancestry were not mixed-race and they did look down upon this group - of which there were millions - because their scattering lasted for over 700 years and in this time approximately 29-35 generations of mixed-race Jews were born and the offspring of Jew-Gentile unions, whether through conquest, rape, concubinage, slavery, and even marriage. Hundreds of thousands of mixed-race Jews lived generation after generation in Gentile lands heavily influenced by Greek culture. There were Judaizers who taught that uncircumcised mixed-race Jews needed to be circumcised in order to be saved. This was rejected and the four instructions to them sufficed satisfaction of the apostles and elders when this Jerusalem Council convened and rendered judgment.

This is why the Holy Spirit uses the Greek word to identify them "ethnos" from where we get the English word translated "ethnic." They were not "Goy" or "Goyim" but ethnos Jews who had a non-Hebrew parent somewhere in their ancestry. Jews saw them as 'second class' citizens. They called mixed-race Jews who were the descendants of the ten northern kingdom tribes with non-Hebrews as "Samaritan" and not "Jew" the same prejudice the Jews called the mixed-race offspring of the two southern kingdom tribes with Gentiles as "Gentile" and not "Jew." But Jesus taught that this 'middle wall partition' which separated His people as incoherent to a rational mind and the fact they were still of the biological seed of Abraham through Jacob, their father, established them still as heirs according to the promise(s.) James, the half-brother of Jesus writes to the Jews and mixed-race Jews scattered:

1 JAMES, a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, to the twelve tribes which are scattered abroad, greeting.
James 1:1.

The "book" of Hebrews is written to the Hebrews, as well as all the other letters written by Jews to and for other Jews and Jewish Christians. Saul knew that God made no covenant with non-Hebrew Gentiles and the Scripture that says unequivocally that the Gentiles and Gentile nations are "nothing" and "less than nothing" to God. They are His enemy. This is clearly stated here:

15 Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him.
16 For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world. 1 John 2:15–16.

The unsaved, unatoned, and non-covenant "world" is enmity against God. If God actually was to save non-Hebrew Gentiles His High Priest, Jesus, would have included them in His "Holy of Holies prayer" right before sacrificing Himself on the cross. But Jesus states clearly He does NOT pray for them in John 17:9.

8 For I have given unto them the words which thou gavest me; and they have received them, and have known surely that I came out from thee, and they have believed that thou didst send me.
9 I pray for them: I pray not for the world, but for them which thou hast given me; for they are thine.
10 And all mine are thine, and thine are mine; and I am glorified in them. John 17:7–10.

This is unmistakable. The time for Jesus to pray for those His sacrifice was to be given for is clear that His sacrifice is NOT for the "world" of non-Hebrew Gentiles and the nations they live in for they are the enemy of God and the Hebrew people. Signing Israel's atonement with His blood is finalized by Jesus from the cross when He says:

34 Father, forgive them; for they know not what they do. And they parted his raiment, and cast lots.
35 And the people stood beholding. And the rulers also with them derided him, saying, He saved others; let him save himself, if he be Christ, the chosen of God. Luke 23:34–35.

The "them" are "they" of John 17 prayer Jesus, as High Priest of the Hebrew people set forth as the lamb OF GOD, who takes away the sins of the "world" of Hebrews.

God made no salvation covenant with non-Hebrew Gentiles. They are identified in Scripture as being "without a prayer" and come under the condemnation of God and His Christ.

You need to stop using the Hebrew writings to prove Gentile inclusion in Israel's covenants. There is NO COVENANT in Scripture of the Law, the Psalms, and the Prophets between God and non-Hebrew Gentiles.
None.
 
You need to read and study the New Testament. As it stands you are terribly ignorant of so much of it.
The New Covenant writings from Matthew to Revelation were Authored by the Holy Spirit and each letter is addressed to Israel/Jews/Jewish Christians and followers of The Way.
Gentiles are outside the grace of God and know mostly nothing of the Jews religion and Matthew, which contains the greater number of references to the Law, Psalms, and the Prophets (Old Testament) are gibberish to non-Hebrew, idol-worshiping, uncircumcised, non-covenant Gentiles.

Each letter references some aspect of the Jews religion of Law, Psalms, and Prophets. If God wanted to communicate favorably with non-Hebrews, He would first bring them into relational covenant, but He never does that. God's attitude against the Gentiles and their nations is clear:

17 All nations before him are as nothing;
And they are counted to him less than nothing, and vanity.
Isaiah 40:17.

You can't have such statements from God if God had plans to atone Gentiles.

Why do you have difficulty with this. There is NO COVENANT between God and the Gentile nations. NONE.
 
Are you identical twins or just fraternal. You and my Savior because only he had perfect knowledge as you try to push on us.
Before I open my mouth or turn on my computer, I make sure all my comments can be supported by Scripture and reason.
I stay within my 'measure of faith.'
 
Why do you have difficulty with this. There is NO COVENANT between God and the Gentile nations. NONE.
The statement you highlighted from the apologetics forum represents a specific, strict theological view often debated in biblical scholarship. Whether it is "true" depends on how a "covenant" is defined and which biblical text is being referenced.
Based on traditional biblical interpretation and the discussion on the web page, here is a breakdown of the different perspectives:

Arguments for the "No Covenant" View

This perspective, often held by some Dispensationalists, argues that the major redemptive covenants were made exclusively with Israel:

  • The Mosaic Covenant: This was specifically a legal agreement between God and the nation of Israel at Mount Sinai.
  • The New Covenant: Jeremiah 31:31 explicitly states the covenant is made with "the house of Israel and the house of Judah".
  • Gentile Status: Proponents of this view, like the user jeremiah1five, argue that Gentiles are "aliens from the commonwealth of Israel" and "strangers from the covenants of promise".

Arguments Against the "No Covenant" View

Most theologians point to other biblical passages that suggest a broader relationship between God and all nations:

  • The Noahic Covenant: In Genesis 9, God makes an unconditional covenant with Noah and "every living creature," which includes all Gentile nations. This is widely viewed as a universal covenant that is still in effect.
  • The Abrahamic Blessing: While made with Abraham, the covenant includes a promise that "in you all the families of the earth shall be blessed" (Genesis 12:3).
  • The New Testament View: Apostles like Paul argue in Ephesians 2 that while Gentiles were once "far off," they have been "made nigh by the blood of Christ," effectively bringing them into the promises of the covenant through faith.

Summary Table of Covenants

[td]Covenant[/td][td]Primary Audience[/td][td]Inclusion of Gentiles[/td] [td]Noahic[/td][td]All Humanity[/td][td]Yes — Direct parties to the covenant.[/td] [td]Abrahamic[/td][td]Abraham's Seed[/td][td]As Beneficiaries — Promised blessing for all nations.[/td] [td]Mosaic[/td][td]Israel[/td][td]No — Specifically for the Israelites.[/td] [td]New[/td][td]Israel/Judah[/td][td]Yes — By faith/grafting in, according to the New Testament.[/td]
The user in the forum is technically correct regarding the legal origins of the Mosaic and New Covenants, but their statement is considered incomplete by those who recognize the Noahic Covenant as a binding agreement between God and all Gentile nations.
________________________________
While different denominations agree that the New Covenant provides salvation for all through Christ, they disagree on whether Gentiles are "direct parties" to that covenant or "guests" who receive its benefits.

1. Reformed and Covenantal View (Presbyterian, Reformed)

This view emphasizes that there is essentially only one covenant of grace that spans both the Old and New Testaments.
  • The Concept: They believe the Church is "spiritual Israel".
  • Gentile Status: Gentiles are not just guests; they are grafted into the original olive tree (Israel) and become full, legal members of the covenant.
  • Fulfillment: All Old Testament promises made to Israel are now symbolically fulfilled in the multi-ethnic Church.

2. Catholic and Orthodox View

The Catholic Church teaches that the covenants are ever-expanding circles that eventually open up to include the entire world.
  • The Concept: The New Covenant, ratified by Christ's blood, effectively re-establishes a "blood kinship" between God and all of humanity.
  • Gentile Status: The Catechism of the Catholic Church states that the Church is the "new Israel," but it avoids "Replacement Theology" by affirming that God still has a unique and ongoing plan for the Jewish people.
  • Noahic Connection: They place a high value on the Noahic Covenant, viewing it as the foundational agreement that still governs God's relationship with Gentile nations today.

3. Dispensational View (Baptist, Bible Churches)

This is likely the perspective you encountered. It maintains a strict distinction between Israel and the Church.
  • The Concept: They argue that because the New Covenant was specifically promised to "Israel and Judah," it is technically a Jewish covenant.
  • Gentile Status: Gentiles are viewed as "fellow heirs" and beneficiaries of the blessings of the covenant (like the Holy Spirit and forgiveness), but they do not "become Israel".
  • Future Hope: They believe that in the future, God will literally fulfill the remaining land and national promises to the ethnic nation of Israel.

4. New Covenant Theology (NCT)

A middle-ground view that argues the Mosaic Law is completely obsolete for both Jews and Gentiles.
  • The Concept: All believers are under the "Law of Christ" rather than the Ten Commandments.
  • Gentile Status: They believe the New Covenant created a single "new man" where previous distinctions no longer have any theological weight.

Summary of Views

[TR]
[td]Tradition[/td][td]Is the Church "Israel"?[/td][td]Gentile Inclusion Method[/td]
[/TR]
[TR]
[td]Reformed[/td][td]Yes — The Church is Spiritual Israel.[/td][td]Grafted into the Covenant of Grace.[/td]
[/TR]
[TR]
[td]Catholic[/td][td]Yes — In a "nuanced" continuity.[/td][td]Universal kinship through the Eucharist.[/td]
[/TR]
[TR]
[td]Dispensational[/td][td]No — Israel and Church are distinct.[/td][td]Partakers of the promise as "fellow heirs".[/td]
[/TR]
[TR]
[td]Dual-Covenant[/td][td]No — Mosaic Law still for Jews only.[/td][td]Gentiles follow the 7 Laws of Noah.[/td]
[/TR]
 
The New Covenant writings from Matthew to Revelation were Authored by the Holy Spirit and each letter is addressed to Israel/Jews/Jewish Christians and followers of The Way.
Gentiles are outside the grace of God and know mostly nothing of the Jews religion and Matthew, which contains the greater number of references to the Law, Psalms, and the Prophets (Old Testament) are gibberish to non-Hebrew, idol-worshiping, uncircumcised, non-covenant Gentiles.

Each letter references some aspect of the Jews religion of Law, Psalms, and Prophets. If God wanted to communicate favorably with non-Hebrews, He would first bring them into relational covenant, but He never does that. God's attitude against the Gentiles and their nations is clear:

17 All nations before him are as nothing;
And they are counted to him less than nothing, and vanity.
Isaiah 40:17.

You can't have such statements from God if God had plans to atone Gentiles.

Why do you have difficulty with this. There is NO COVENANT between God and the Gentile nations. NONE.
With your racist view of theology, you could very likely be a legitimate reason for antisemitism.
 
The fellowship in Rome was founded by Jews and mixed heritage Jews of the Diaspora when they returned to their homes and synagogues after they visited Jerusalem for the Passover and the Feast of Harvest circa AD 34, the date when the "Holy Spirit of Promise" PROMISED TO ISRAEL descended and was the inauguration of the Church Jesus promised to build, which was populated by Jews. Three thousand Jews according to Acts 2:41.
Acts 2:41 has nothing at all to do with Paul's letter to the Romans. Moreover, it would appear that you have never read and understood much of anything in Paul's letter to the Romans - or any other book of the New Testament. And that either out of ignorance or serious dislike of non-Jews.
 
The New Covenant writings from Matthew to Revelation were Authored by the Holy Spirit and each letter is addressed to Israel/Jews/Jewish Christians and followers of The Way.
Gentiles are outside the grace of God and know mostly nothing of the Jews religion and Matthew, which contains the greater number of references to the Law, Psalms, and the Prophets (Old Testament) are gibberish to non-Hebrew, idol-worshiping, uncircumcised, non-covenant Gentiles.
Well, I do hope you are enjoying your day of Shabbat Rosh Chodesh and are looking forward to lighting the 7th at Sundown tonight.... and the celebration of Eid Al B'nat (Festival of Daughters) or do you just light your 7 candles plus the shamash?
Each letter references some aspect of the Jews religion of Law, Psalms, and Prophets. If God wanted to communicate favorably with non-Hebrews, He would first bring them into relational covenant, but He never does that. God's attitude against the Gentiles and their nations is clear:

17 All nations before him are as nothing;
And they are counted to him less than nothing, and vanity.
Isaiah 40:17.

You can't have such statements from God if God had plans to atone Gentiles.

Why do you have difficulty with this. There is NO COVENANT between God and the Gentile nations. NONE.

Why don't you just say what you really mean and tell us that we Gentiles... (Of which I believe you to be one,,, even for all your osmosis in trying to change) and tell us we are on the yellow brick road to perdition. YOU HAVE SAID EVERY THING BUT.
 
It is bad enough that any would think that Jesus Christ would have or need faith in God, but to think that God would have or need faith in anything is almost heresy. There are indeed some things, some passages, that the KJV is just wrong.

Rom 3:3

(ASV) For what if some were without faith? shall their want of faith make of none effect the faithfulness of God?

(ESV)What if some were unfaithful? Does their faithlessness nullify the faithfulness of God?

(NASB) What then? If some did not believe, their unbelief will not nullify the faithfulness of God, will it?

(NIV) What if some were unfaithful? Will their unfaithfulness nullify God's faithfulness?

(NKJV) For what if some did not believe? Will their unbelief make the faithfulness of God without effect?
So let me see if I understand where you're coming from... the KJB, in saying that God is faithful to the promises He made to both Israel, & the BoC, is heresy... yet, translations that stem from the New Greek Text of two unsaved, closet Catholic men got it right? 🤔
 
So let me see if I understand where you're coming from... the KJB, in saying that God is faithful to the promises He made to both Israel, & the BoC, is heresy... yet, translations that stem from the New Greek Text of two unsaved, closet Catholic men got it right? 🤔
The difference is that God is faithful but He does not have or need faith. The translation of the KJV of Romans 3:3 with "faith of God" is wrong. As I indicated, the correct translation there is "faithfulness of God". In the same way, the translation of the KJV of the "faith of Jesus" Romans 3:22, Galatians 2:16; 3:22 is wrong. It is "faith in Jesus". God, the Father, the Son or the Holy Spirit, do not need or have faith in God, in the Father, in the Son, or in the Holy Spirit. There is no rational argument for such a case.
 
The statement you highlighted from the apologetics forum represents a specific, strict theological view often debated in biblical scholarship. Whether it is "true" depends on how a "covenant" is defined and which biblical text is being referenced.
Based on traditional biblical interpretation and the discussion on the web page, here is a breakdown of the different perspectives:
There is only one definition for "covenant", and it is "promise(s.)

"God said" equals immediate reputation to fulfillment. In other word, God can't lie, which means everything He says He's going to do will come to pass.

Now, I must ask: am I interacting on this thread with you or AI?

Arguments for the "No Covenant" View

This perspective, often held by some Dispensationalists, argues that the major redemptive covenants were made exclusively with Israel:

  • The Mosaic Covenant: This was specifically a legal agreement between God and the nation of Israel at Mount Sinai.
  • The New Covenant: Jeremiah 31:31 explicitly states the covenant is made with "the house of Israel and the house of Judah".
  • Gentile Status: Proponents of this view, like the user jeremiah1five, argue that Gentiles are "aliens from the commonwealth of Israel" and "strangers from the covenants of promise".
INCORRECT.

They are "aliens" to God, "strangers" to God. They know not God and God considers them as "nothing" and "less than nothing." Saul says that the mixed-race Jews (think Samaritans) who grew up as Gentiles in Gentile lands and heavily influenced by Greek culture are the audience to what Saul said in his Ephesian letter about these mixed-race Jews of the Diaspora are "aliens to the commonwealth of Israel" and "strangers to the covenants of promise." These are Abraham's seed mixed in with non-Hebrews whose offspring lost their Hebrew heritage, their manner of dress, language, ways of thinking, and even idol-worshipers that Saul writes to in ALL his letters. Just look at the context: Israel/Hebrews. The Word of God including the Hebrew Scripture (Law, Psalms, Prophets) is to and for the Hebrew people/Israel. Each "book" of the Old and New Testaments from Matthew to Revelation are written by a Jew to and for other Jews, and in the case of the "New Testament" Jewish Christians, written to them.

Arguments Against the "No Covenant" View

Most theologians point to other biblical passages that suggest a broader relationship between God and all nations:

  • The Noahic Covenant: In Genesis 9, God makes an unconditional covenant with Noah and "every living creature," which includes all Gentile nations. This is widely viewed as a universal covenant that is still in effect.
  • The Abrahamic Blessing: While made with Abraham, the covenant includes a promise that "in you all the families of the earth shall be blessed" (Genesis 12:3).
  • The New Testament View: Apostles like Paul argue in Ephesians 2 that while Gentiles were once "far off," they have been "made nigh by the blood of Christ," effectively bringing them into the promises of the covenant through faith.
Who was alive when Genesis 9 occurs? Just Noah, his wife, his three sons and their wives. While it states the Noahic Covenant is made to Noah and his seed, there were no other people alive. Gentile nations did not exist when God spoke to Noah, just Shem, Ham, and Japheth, and I doubt they were present when God and Noah spoke. YOU atre inserting "Gentile nations" when Gentile nations did not exist. So, you are adding to the Bible and confusing the subject and the content.
To Abraham God says "all families of the earth" meaning Abraham's seed through Ishmael, and Esau, and Ishmael's sons' children, etc. Since the blessing of covenant is already blessing from God only those families or seed of Abraham are blessed. The seed of Ham and Japheth do not have any blessings of or from God. It is the families that are born from Abraham that are blessed ONLY.

And the "New Testament view" above misidentifies "Gentiles" as non-Hebrew Gentiles and I don't. Gentiles are the mixed-race Jews of the Diaspora who grew up Gentile having lost their Hebrew heritage because of assimilation into Gentile and Greek culture. Samaritans and "Gentiles" in the New Testament refer to mixed-race Jews who grew up as Gentile, spoke like Gentiles, accents like Gentiles, dressed like Gentiles, spoke like Gentiles, thought like Gentiles, ate Gentile food (opposite what Hebrews eat in Scripture.) They are still Abraham's seed and heirs according to the promise because God made promise to Abraham and his seed.

Summary Table of Covenants

[td]Covenant[/td][td]Primary Audience[/td][td]Inclusion of Gentiles[/td] [td]Noahic[/td][td]All Humanity[/td][td]Yes — Direct parties to the covenant.[/td] [td]Abrahamic[/td][td]Abraham's Seed[/td][td]As Beneficiaries — Promised blessing for all nations.[/td] [td]Mosaic[/td][td]Israel[/td][td]No — Specifically for the Israelites.[/td] [td]New[/td][td]Israel/Judah[/td][td]Yes — By faith/grafting in, according to the New Testament.[/td]
The user in the forum is technically correct regarding the legal origins of the Mosaic and New Covenants, but their statement is considered incomplete by those who recognize the Noahic Covenant as a binding agreement between God and all Gentile nations.
________________________________
While different denominations agree that the New Covenant provides salvation for all through Christ, they disagree on whether Gentiles are "direct parties" to that covenant or "guests" who receive its benefits.

1. Reformed and Covenantal View (Presbyterian, Reformed)

This view emphasizes that there is essentially only one covenant of grace that spans both the Old and New Testaments.
  • The Concept: They believe the Church is "spiritual Israel".
  • Gentile Status: Gentiles are not just guests; they are grafted into the original olive tree (Israel) and become full, legal members of the covenant.
  • Fulfillment: All Old Testament promises made to Israel are now symbolically fulfilled in the multi-ethnic Church.
You're taking this from ChatGPT or Gemini or some internet search, right?

Natural Israel is spiritual Israel.
No, the disobedient Jews are the ones grafted BACK INTO the Olive tree. God never called non-Hebhrew Gentiles an Olive tree, so be consistent and stop trying to force a new identity for the ones grafted BACK INTO the Olive tree, which are the disobedient natural Olive tree which is Israel. The Olive tree is representative of Israel.

No, not all prophecies or promises have been fulfilled - today. There are still Old Testament promises and prophecies that have NOT all been fulfilled.

2. Catholic and Orthodox View

The Catholic Church teaches that the covenants are ever-expanding circles that eventually open up to include the entire world.
  • The Concept: The New Covenant, ratified by Christ's blood, effectively re-establishes a "blood kinship" between God and all of humanity.
  • Gentile Status: The Catechism of the Catholic Church states that the Church is the "new Israel," but it avoids "Replacement Theology" by affirming that God still has a unique and ongoing plan for the Jewish people.
  • Noahic Connection: They place a high value on the Noahic Covenant, viewing it as the foundational agreement that still governs God's relationship with Gentile nations today.
ERROR.
Gentiles did not exist in Noah's day. Only Adamites.

3. Dispensational View (Baptist, Bible Churches)

This is likely the perspective you encountered. It maintains a strict distinction between Israel and the Church.
  • The Concept: They argue that because the New Covenant was specifically promised to "Israel and Judah," it is technically a Jewish covenant.
  • Gentile Status: Gentiles are viewed as "fellow heirs" and beneficiaries of the blessings of the covenant (like the Holy Spirit and forgiveness), but they do not "become Israel".
  • Future Hope: They believe that in the future, God will literally fulfill the remaining land and national promises to the ethnic nation of Israel.
The "Concept" is correct.
The "Gentile Status" is incorrect.
The "Future Hope" is correct.

4. New Covenant Theology (NCT)

A middle-ground view that argues the Mosaic Law is completely obsolete for both Jews and Gentiles.
  • The Concept: All believers are under the "Law of Christ" rather than the Ten Commandments.
  • Gentile Status: They believe the New Covenant created a single "new man" where previous distinctions no longer have any theological weight.
The Law of Christ (Greek: "Anointing" = Spirit) IS the Scripture and is the same as the Doctrines of Christ. It is the Law, Psalms, and the Prophets which were Authored by the "Christ" or the "Spirit."

The "single new man" refers to the non-mixed race Jew and the mixed-race Jews joined together to make a "new man."

Summary of Views


[TR]
[td]Tradition[/td][td]Is the Church "Israel"?[/td][td]Gentile Inclusion Method[/td]
[/TR]
[TR]
[td]Reformed[/td][td]Yes — The Church is Spiritual Israel.[/td][td]Grafted into the Covenant of Grace.[/td]
[/TR]
[TR]
[td]Catholic[/td][td]Yes — In a "nuanced" continuity.[/td][td]Universal kinship through the Eucharist.[/td]
[/TR]
[TR]
[td]Dispensational[/td][td]No — Israel and Church are distinct.[/td][td]Partakers of the promise as "fellow heirs".[/td]
[/TR]
[TR]
[td]Dual-Covenant[/td][td]No — Mosaic Law still for Jews only.[/td][td]Gentiles follow the 7 Laws of Noah.[/td]
[/TR]
Now what?
 
With your racist view of theology, you could very likely be a legitimate reason for antisemitism.
God is the original racist. But is it racist for God to choose a descendant of Eber (Hebrew) and make salvation covenant with him like as God did with Abram the Hebrew? I mean, God is the One who exalts Israel ABOVE all the families of the world. Is that racist?
 
Acts 2:41 has nothing at all to do with Paul's letter to the Romans. Moreover, it would appear that you have never read and understood much of anything in Paul's letter to the Romans - or any other book of the New Testament. And that either out of ignorance or serious dislike of non-Jews.
The fellowship of born-again Jews founded the church and churches in Italy and Rome.
I have the same attitude God does towards the Gentile nations of the world. They are antigod and try to be moral while rejecting the God of Morals.
The born-again Jews that visited Jerusalem for the Passover and the Feasts who became born-again returned to their homes and synagogues in places like Rome, etc., are the ones who took an outline of Peter's sermon and testimony and witness of Jesus of Nazareth who returned home and told other Jews of their experiences while they were in Jerusalem that founded the churches in Rome, Corinth, Philippi, Ephesus, Thessalonica, etc.
 
Well, I do hope you are enjoying your day of Shabbat Rosh Chodesh and are looking forward to lighting the 7th at Sundown tonight.... and the celebration of Eid Al B'nat (Festival of Daughters) or do you just light your 7 candles plus the shamash?


Why don't you just say what you really mean and tell us that we Gentiles... (Of which I believe you to be one,,, even for all your osmosis in trying to change) and tell us we are on the yellow brick road to perdition. YOU HAVE SAID EVERY THING BUT.
The covenant is between God and Abram the Hebrew and his Hebrew seed.
The Holy Spirit is promised to Israel NOT Gentiles.
If you are truly born-again by the Spirit, there is a Hebrew parent somewhere in your family ancestry.
 
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