Isaiah 53 the origin of PSA

[civic]

For the guests and members here is the evidence .

The Seven New Testament Quotations of Isaiah 53 - Robert F. Wall

 

[civic]

And here is an exhaustive list which proves once again I’m correct .

https://www.csmedia1.com/htaj.org/where-is-isaiah-quoted-in-the-new-testament.pdf

 

[Johann]

No I have the volume that’s shows every single OT passage directly quoted in the NT by Beale . It’s not in there and you are basing it on inference.

Joh 12:38 That the saying of Esaias the prophet might be fulfilled, which he spake, Lord, who hath believed our report? and to whom hath the arm of the Lord been revealed?
Joh 12:39 Therefore they could not believe, because that Esaias said again,
Joh 12:40 He hath blinded their eyes, and hardened their heart; that they should not see with their eyes, nor understand with their heart, and be converted, and I should heal them.
Joh 12:41 These things said Esaias, when he saw his glory, and spake of him.
Joh 12:42 Nevertheless among the chief rulers also many believed on him; but because of the Pharisees they did not confess him, lest they should be put out of the synagogue:

Rom 10:16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report?
Mat 8:17 That it might be fulfilled which was spoken by Esaias the prophet, saying, Himself took our infirmities, and bare our sicknesses.

1Pe 2:24 Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed.
1Pe 2:25 For ye were as sheep going astray; but are now returned unto the Shepherd and Bishop of your souls.

1Pe 2:23 Who, when he was reviled, reviled not again; when he suffered, he threatened not; but committed himself to him that judgeth righteously:

Luk 22:37 For I say unto you, that this that is written must yet be accomplished in me, And he was reckoned among the transgressors: for the things concerning me have an end.

Guess Beale "missed these verses"
J.

 

[civic]

Joh 12:38 That the saying of Esaias the prophet might be fulfilled, which he spake, Lord, who hath believed our report? and to whom hath the arm of the Lord been revealed?
Joh 12:39 Therefore they could not believe, because that Esaias said again,
Joh 12:40 He hath blinded their eyes, and hardened their heart; that they should not see with their eyes, nor understand with their heart, and be converted, and I should heal them.
Joh 12:41 These things said Esaias, when he saw his glory, and spake of him.
Joh 12:42 Nevertheless among the chief rulers also many believed on him; but because of the Pharisees they did not confess him, lest they should be put out of the synagogue:

Rom 10:16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report?
Mat 8:17 That it might be fulfilled which was spoken by Esaias the prophet, saying, Himself took our infirmities, and bare our sicknesses.

1Pe 2:24 Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed.
1Pe 2:25 For ye were as sheep going astray; but are now returned unto the Shepherd and Bishop of your souls.

1Pe 2:23 Who, when he was reviled, reviled not again; when he suffered, he threatened not; but committed himself to him that judgeth righteously:

Luk 22:37 For I say unto you, that this that is written must yet be accomplished in me, And he was reckoned among the transgressors: for the things concerning me have an end.

Guess Beale "missed these verses"
J.

Nothing penal , no wrath . All you are doing is making my case for me since nothing penal/wrath from Isaiah 53 is once quoted in the NT.

I rest my case. No one can present a case to refute it. Only theories void of facts.

hope this helps !!!

 

[Johann]

Nothing penal , no wrath . All you are doing is making my case for me since nothing penal/wrath from Isaiah 53 is once quoted in the NT.

I rest my case. No one can present a case to refute it. Only theories void of facts.

hope this helps !!!

I can-but have lost my appetite edit.
J.

 

[synergy]

Isaiah 53:10 states that the Messiah was to be a Trespass Offering, and this chapter is quoted in the New Testament:

Isaiah 53:1 is quoted in John 12:38 and Romans 10:16,
Isaiah 53:4 is quoted in Matthew 8:17,
Isaiah 53:5,6 is quoted in 1 Peter 2:24,25,
Isaiah 53:9 is quoted in 1 Peter 2:23, and
Isaiah 53:12 is quoted in Luke 22:37.
In the famous messianic prophecy of Isaiah 53:10, speaking about the death of Jesus the Messiah, it states that God will make Him an offering for sin. The word for offering for guilt is asham, which has to do with the Trespass Offering, meaning that Jesus removed the harmful effects of our Trespass sins.

I notice I am under "continual violation of long posts" Not done on purpose and have asked the @Administrator to edit when he sees fit.

--This is to show you are in error.--
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You-

No one in the NT as I have proven quotes Is 53:4 or 10. The 2 passages PSA is founded upon.
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Shalom
J.

I found something interesting. In Isa 53:4 (KJV) it says "smitten of God".
Isa 53:4 Surely he hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows: yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted.

Upon closer investigation of the LXX there is no mention of God (theos) anywhere in Isa 53:4:
Isa 53:4 (LXX) οὗτος τὰς ἁμαρτίας ἡμῶν φέρει καὶ περὶ ἡμῶν ὀδυνᾶται, καὶ ἡμεῖς ἐλογισάμεθα αὐτὸν εἶναι ἐν πόνῳ καὶ ἐν πληγῇ καὶ ἐν κακώσει.

In fact, a better translation of Isa 53:4 is the Brenton OT version which says the following:
Isa 53:4 (Brenton) He bears our sins, and is pained for us: yet we accounted him to be in trouble, and in suffering, and in affliction.

Also, there is no "smiting" of Jesus by God anywhere in Mat 8:17:
(Matt 8:17) so that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by Isaiah the prophet, saying, "He took on Himself our weaknesses and bore our sicknesses."

What's going on here? Remember that the LXX was the preferred OT version of the Apostles.

CC: @civic

 

[Johann]

I have dozens of books so what ?

Make an argument with your own words in this thread . Pick any post I have made here and let’s debate it.

And you have not proven anything yet and have only made an assertion. Claiming victory does not mean it occurred

I found something interesting. In Isa 53:4 (KJV) it says "smitten of God".
Isa 53:4 Surely he hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows: yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted.

Upon closer investigation of the LXX there is no mention of God (theos) anywhere in Isa 53:4:
Isa 53:4 (LXX) οὗτος τὰς ἁμαρτίας ἡμῶν φέρει καὶ περὶ ἡμῶν ὀδυνᾶται, καὶ ἡμεῖς ἐλογισάμεθα αὐτὸν εἶναι ἐν πόνῳ καὶ ἐν πληγῇ καὶ ἐν κακώσει.

In fact, a better translation of Isa 53:4 is the Brenton OT version which says the following:
Isa 53:4 (Brenton) He bears our sins, and is pained for us: yet we accounted him to be in trouble, and in suffering, and in affliction.

Also, there is no "smiting" of Jesus by God anywhere in Mat 8:17:
(Matt 8:17) so that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by Isaiah the prophet, saying, "He took on Himself our weaknesses and bore our sicknesses."

What's going on here? Remember that the LXX was the preferred OT version of the Apostles.

CC: @civic

Isa 53:1 Who hath believed our report? And to whom is the Zero'a Hashem [Yeshayah 52:10] revealed?

Isa 53:2 For he shall grow up before him as a tender plant, and as a Shoresh (Root, Shoresh Yishai, Moshiach, Yeshayah 11:10, Sanhedrin93b) out of a dry ground; he hath no form nor comeliness; and when we shall see him, there is no beauty that we should desire [Chaggai 2:7] him.

Isa 53:3 He is despised and chadal ishim (rejected by men); a man of sorrows, and acquainted with suffering; and we hid as it were our faces from him; he was despised, and we esteemed him not.

Isa 53:4 Surely he hath borne our sufferings, and nasah (carried [Vayikra 16:22; Yeshayah 53:12)] our sorrows; yet we did esteem him stricken, [i.e., like a leper is stricken] smitten of G-d, and afflicted [see verse 8 below].



Can you show me?
J.

 

[Johann]

Isa 53:1 Who hath believed our report? And to whom is the Zero'a Hashem [Yeshayah 52:10] revealed?

Isa 53:2 For he shall grow up before him as a tender plant, and as a Shoresh (Root, Shoresh Yishai, Moshiach, Yeshayah 11:10, Sanhedrin93b) out of a dry ground; he hath no form nor comeliness; and when we shall see him, there is no beauty that we should desire [Chaggai 2:7] him.

Isa 53:3 He is despised and chadal ishim (rejected by men); a man of sorrows, and acquainted with suffering; and we hid as it were our faces from him; he was despised, and we esteemed him not.

Isa 53:4 Surely he hath borne our sufferings, and nasah (carried [Vayikra 16:22; Yeshayah 53:12)] our sorrows; yet we did esteem him stricken, [i.e., like a leper is stricken] smitten of G-d, and afflicted [see verse 8 below].

How can you say Messiah was NOT smitten?



Isa 53:5 But he was pierced [Yeshayah 51:9; Zecharyah 12:10 Sukkah 52a, Tehillim 22:17 Targum Hashivim] for our transgressions, he was bruised mei'avonoteinu (for our iniquities); the musar (chastisement) (that brought us shalom [Yeshayah 54:10] was upon him [Moshiach]; and at the cost of his (Moshiach's) chaburah (stripes, lacerations) we are healed.

Isa 53:6 All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own derech (way; see Prov 16:25); and Hashem hath laid on him [Moshiach] the avon (iniquity, the guilt that separates from G-d) of us all.

Isa 53:7 He was oppressed, and he was afflicted, yet he opened not his mouth; he is brought as a seh (lamb; see Shemot 12:3) to the slaughter, and as a sheep before her shearers is dumb, so he openeth not his mouth.

Isa 53:8 He was taken from prison and from judgment; and who of his generation declared? For he was cut off [ Dan_9:26 ; Lev_17:10 ] out of Eretz Chayyim [this refers to the mot of Moshiach Ben Dovid, see Isa_53:12 ] mipesha ami (for the transgression of my people [Yisroel]) -nega (plague cf Psa_91:10 ) lamo ([fell] on him [i.e., Moshiach; in light of Psa_11:7 and Job_22:2 we are warranted in saying the suffix is a singular, "him," not "them". Cf Gen_9:26-27 ; Deu_33:2 ; Isa_44:15 ; also compare 1Ch_21:17 ]).
Isa 53:9 And he made his kever (grave) with the resha'im, and with the oisher (rich man; see Mt 27:57-60) bemotayv (in his deaths, intensive plural should be translated singular, death); because he had done no chamas (violence), neither was any mirmah (deceit) in his mouth. T.N. We stray as sheep; we return in Moshiach as children (zera); the Techiyas HaMoshiach (Resurrection of Moshiach) predicted in v. 10 [Dead Sea Scrolls Isaiah Scroll says Moshiach "will see the light [of life];" see also the Targum HaShivim]

Isa 53:10 Yet it pleased Hashem to bruise him; He hath put him to suffering; when Thou shalt make his nefesh an asham offering for sin, he (Moshiach) shall see zera [see Psalm 16 and Yn 1:12 OJBC], He shall prolong his yamim (days) and the chefetz Hashem (pleasure, will of Hashem) shall prosper in his [Moshiach's] hand.

No smiting?

Isa 53:11 He [Hashem] shall see of the travail of his [Moshiach's] nefesh, and shall be satisfied; by knowledge of him [Moshiach] shall Tzadik Avdi ["My Righteous Servant," Moshiach, Zecharyah 3:8, Yirmeyah 23:5; Zecharyah 6:11-12, Ezra 3:8 Yehoshua, Yeshua shmo] justify many (Ro 5:1); for he [Moshiach] shall bear their avon (iniquities).

Isa 53:12 Therefore will I divide him a portion with the great, and he shall divide the spoil with the strong; because he hath poured out his nefesh unto mavet (death); and he was numbered with the transgressors; and he nasah (Lv 16:22, carried) (like the Yom Kippur scapegoat) the sin of many, and made intercession [did the work of a mafgi'a, intercessor] for the transgressors [see Lk 23:34 OJBC].

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1Who would have believed our report, and to whom was the arm of the Lord revealed? אמִ֥י הֶֽאֱמִ֖ין לִשְׁמֻֽעָתֵ֑נוּ וּזְר֥וֹעַ יְהֹוָ֖ה עַל־מִ֥י נִגְלָֽתָה:

2And he came up like a sapling before it, and like a root from dry ground, he had neither form nor comeliness; and we saw him that he had no appearance. Now shall we desire him? בוַיַּ֨עַל כַּיּוֹנֵ֜ק לְפָנָ֗יו וְכַשֹּׁ֙רֶשׁ֙ מֵאֶ֣רֶץ צִיָּ֔ה לֹא־תֹ֥אַר ל֖וֹ וְלֹ֣א הָדָ֑ר וְנִרְאֵ֥הוּ וְלֹֽא־מַרְאֶ֖ה וְנֶֽחְמְדֵֽהוּ:

3Despised and rejected by men, a man of pains and accustomed to illness, and as one who hides his face from us, despised and we held him of no account. גנִבְזֶה֙ וַֽחֲדַ֣ל אִישִׁ֔ים אִ֥ישׁ מַכְאֹב֖וֹת וִיד֣וּעַ חֹ֑לִי וּכְמַסְתֵּ֚ר פָּנִים֙ מִמֶּ֔נּוּ נִבְזֶ֖ה וְלֹ֥א חֲשַׁבְנֻֽהוּ:

4Indeed, he bore our illnesses, and our pains-he carried them, yet we accounted him as plagued, smitten by God and oppressed. דאָכֵ֚ן חֳלָיֵ֙נוּ֙ ה֣וּא נָשָׂ֔א וּמַכְאֹבֵ֖ינוּ סְבָלָ֑ם וַֽאֲנַ֣חְנוּ חֲשַׁבְנֻ֔הוּ נָג֛וּעַ מֻכֵּ֥ה אֱלֹהִ֖ים וּמְעֻנֶּֽה:

5But he was pained because of our transgressions, crushed because of our iniquities; the chastisement of our welfare was upon him, and with his wound we were healed. הוְהוּא֙ מְחֹלָ֣ל מִפְּשָׁעֵ֔נוּ מְדֻכָּ֖א מֵֽעֲוֹֽנוֹתֵ֑ינוּ מוּסַ֚ר שְׁלוֹמֵ֙נוּ֙ עָלָ֔יו וּבַֽחֲבֻֽרָת֖וֹ נִרְפָּא־לָֽנוּ:

6We all went astray like sheep, we have turned, each one on his way, and the Lord accepted his prayers for the iniquity of all of us. וכֻּלָּ֙נוּ֙ כַּצֹּ֣אן תָּעִ֔ינוּ אִ֥ישׁ לְדַרְכּ֖וֹ פָּנִ֑ינוּ וַֽיהֹוָה֙ הִפְגִּ֣יעַ בּ֔וֹ אֵ֖ת עֲו‍ֹ֥ן כֻּלָּֽנוּ:

7He was oppressed, and he was afflicted, yet he would not open his mouth; like a lamb to the slaughter he would be brought, and like a ewe that is mute before her shearers, and he would not open his mouth. זנִגַּ֨שׂ וְה֣וּא נַֽעֲנֶה֘ וְלֹ֣א יִפְתַּח־פִּיו֒ כַּשֶּׂה֙ לַטֶּ֣בַח יוּבָ֔ל וּכְרָחֵ֕ל לִפְנֵ֥י גֹֽזְזֶ֖יהָ נֶֽאֱלָ֑מָה וְלֹ֥א יִפְתַּ֖ח פִּֽיו:

8From imprisonment and from judgment he is taken, and his generation who shall tell? For he was cut off from the land of the living; because of the transgression of my people, a plague befell them. חמֵעֹ֚צֶר וּמִמִּשְׁפָּט֙ לֻקָּ֔ח וְאֶת־דּוֹר֖וֹ מִ֣י יְשׂוֹחֵ֑חַ כִּ֚י נִגְזַר֙ מֵאֶ֣רֶץ חַיִּ֔ים מִפֶּ֥שַׁע עַמִּ֖י נֶ֥גַע לָֽמוֹ:

9And he gave his grave to the wicked, and to the wealthy with his kinds of death, because he committed no violence, and there was no deceit in his mouth. טוַיִּתֵּ֚ן אֶת־רְשָׁעִים֙ קִבְר֔וֹ וְאֶת־עָשִׁ֖יר בְּמֹתָ֑יו עַל לֹֽא־חָמָ֣ס עָשָׂ֔ה וְלֹ֥א מִרְמָ֖ה בְּפִֽיו:

10And the Lord wished to crush him, He made him ill; if his soul makes itself restitution, he shall see children, he shall prolong his days, and God's purpose shall prosper in his hand. יוַֽיהֹוָ֞ה חָפֵ֚ץ דַּכְּאוֹ֙ הֶֽחֱלִ֔י אִם־תָּשִׂ֚ים אָשָׁם֙ נַפְשׁ֔וֹ יִרְאֶ֥ה זֶ֖רַע יַֽאֲרִ֣יךְ יָמִ֑ים וְחֵ֥פֶץ יְהֹוָ֖ה בְּיָד֥וֹ יִצְלָֽח:

11From the toil of his soul he would see, he would be satisfied; with his knowledge My servant would vindicate the just for many, and their iniquities he would bear. יאמֵֽעֲמַ֚ל נַפְשׁוֹ֙ יִרְאֶ֣ה יִשְׂבָּ֔ע בְּדַעְתּ֗וֹ יַצְדִּ֥יק צַדִּ֛יק עַבְדִּ֖י לָֽרַבִּ֑ים וַֽעֲו‍ֹנֹתָ֖ם ה֥וּא יִסְבֹּֽל:
12Therefore, I will allot him a portion in public, and with the strong he shall share plunder, because he poured out his soul to death, and with transgressors he was counted; and he bore the sin of many, and interceded for the transgressors. יבלָכֵ֞ן אֲחַלֶּק־ל֣וֹ בָֽרַבִּ֗ים וְאֶת־עֲצוּמִים֘ יְחַלֵּ֣ק שָׁלָל֒ תַּ֗חַת אֲשֶׁ֨ר הֶֽעֱרָ֚ה לַמָּ֙וֶת֙ נַפְשׁ֔וֹ וְאֶת־פֹּֽשְׁעִ֖ים נִמְנָ֑ה וְהוּא֙ חֵֽטְא־רַבִּ֣ים נָשָׂ֔א וְלַפֹּֽשְׁעִ֖ים יַפְגִּֽיעַ:

Instead of quoting one verse-how about reading the whole Chapter-and take note of what God is doing TO the Suffering Servant-it PLEASED YHVH to bruise and crushed Messiah.

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Isa 53:1 The Suffering Servant
WhoH4310 Interrog mî מִ֥י N1 has believedH539 H8689 V-Hifil-Perf-3ms he·’ĕ·mîn הֶאֱמִ֖ין our report?H8052 Prep-l+N-fsc+1cp liš·mu·‘ā·ṯê·nū לִשְׁמֻעָתֵ֑נוּ and the armH2220 Conj-w+N-fsc ū·zə·rō·w·a‘ וּזְר֥וֹעַ of YHWHH3068 N-proper-ms Yah·weh יְהוָ֖ה toH5921 Prep ‘al- עַל־ whomH4310 Interrog mî מִ֥י has been revealed?H1540 H8738 V-Nifal-Perf-3fs niḡ·lā·ṯāh נִגְלָֽתָה׃ N2

Isa 53:2 for He shall grow upH5927 H8799 Conj-w+V-Qal-ConsecImperf-3ms way·ya·‘al וַיַּ֨עַל as a tender plant,H3126 Prep-k-Art+N-ms kay·yō·w·nêq כַּיּוֹנֵ֜ק before HimH6440 Prep-l+N-cpc+3ms lə·p̄ā·nāw לְפָנָ֗יו and as a rootH8328 Conj-w-Prep-k-Art+N-ms wə·ḵaš·šō·reš וְכַשֹּׁ֙רֶשׁ֙ out of ground;H776 Prep-m+N-fsc mê·’e·reṣ מֵאֶ֣רֶץ dryH6723 Adj-fs ṣî·yāh צִיָּ֔ה noH3808 Adv-NegPrt lō- לֹא־ formH8389 N-ms ṯō·’ar תֹ֥אַר He hasH0 Prep+3ms lōw ל֖וֹ orH3808 Conj-w+Adv-NegPrt wə·lō וְלֹ֣א comeliness;H1926 N-ms hā·ḏār הָדָ֑ר and we see HimH7200 H8799 Conj-w+V-Qal-ConjImperf.h-1cp+3ms wə·nir·’ê·hū וְנִרְאֵ֥הוּ and [There is] noH3808 Conj-w+Adv-NegPrt wə·lō- וְלֹֽא־ beautyH4758 N-ms mar·’eh מַרְאֶ֖ה that we should desire Him.H2530 H8799 Conj-w+V-Qal-ConjImperf.h-1cp+3ms wə·neḥ·mə·ḏê·hū וְנֶחְמְדֵֽהוּ׃

Isa 53:3 He is despisedH959 H8737 V-Nifal-Prtcpl-ms niḇ·zeh נִבְזֶה֙ and rejected byH2310 Conj-w+Adj-msc wa·ḥă·ḏal וַחֲדַ֣ל men;H376 N-mp ’î·šîm אִישִׁ֔ים a ManH376 N-msc ’îš אִ֥ישׁ of sorrows,H4341 N-mp maḵ·’ō·ḇō·wṯ מַכְאֹב֖וֹת and acquaintedH3045 H8803 Conj-w+V-Qal-QalPassPrtcpl-msc wî·ḏū·a‘ וִיד֣וּעַ with grief;H2483 N-ms ḥō·lî חֹ֑לִי and as it were we hidH4564 H8688 Conj-w-Prep-k+N-msc ū·ḵə·mas·têr וּכְמַסְתֵּ֤ר [our] facesH6440 N-mp pā·nîm פָּנִים֙ from HimH4480 Prep+3ms mim·men·nū מִמֶּ֔נּוּ He was despised,H959 H8737 V-Nifal-Prtcpl-ms niḇ·zeh נִבְזֶ֖ה and notH3808 Conj-w+Adv-NegPrt wə·lō וְלֹ֥א we did esteem Him.H2803 H8804 V-Qal-Perf-1cp+3ms ḥă·šaḇ·nu·hū חֲשַׁבְנֻֽהוּ׃

Isa 53:4 SurelyH403 Adv ’ā·ḵên אָכֵ֤ן our griefs,H2483 N-mpc+1cp ḥo·lā·yê·nū חֳלָיֵ֙נוּ֙ HeH1931 Pro-3ms hū ה֣וּא has borneH5375 H8804 V-Qal-Perf-3ms nā·śā נָשָׂ֔א and our sorrows;H4341 Conj-w+N-mpc+1cp ū·maḵ·’ō·ḇê·nū וּמַכְאֹבֵ֖ינוּ N1 carriedH5445 H8804 V-Qal-Perf-3ms+3mp sə·ḇā·lām סְבָלָ֑ם and yet weH587 Conj-w+Pro-1cp wa·’ă·naḥ·nū וַאֲנַ֣חְנוּ esteemed HimH2803 H8804 V-Qal-Perf-1cp+3ms ḥă·šaḇ·nu·hū חֲשַׁבְנֻ֔הוּ stricken,H5060 H8803 V-Qal-QalPassPrtcpl-ms nā·ḡū·a‘ נָג֛וּעַ Smitten byH5221 H8716 V-Hofal-Prtcpl-msc muk·kêh מֻכֵּ֥ה God,H430 N-mp ’ĕ·lō·hîm אֱלֹהִ֖ים and afflicted.H6031 H8794 Conj-w+V-Pual-Prtcpl-ms ū·mə·‘un·neh וּמְעֻנֶּֽה׃

Isa 53:5 But HeH1931 Conj-w+Pro-3ms wə·hū וְהוּא֙ [was] woundedH2490 H8775 V-Pual-Prtcpl-ms mə·ḥō·lāl מְחֹלָ֣ל for our transgressions,H6588 Prep-m+N-mpc+1cp mip·pə·šā·‘ê·nū מִפְּשָׁעֵ֔נוּ [He was] bruisedH1792 H8794 V-Pual-Prtcpl-ms mə·ḏuk·kā מְדֻכָּ֖א for our iniquities;H5771 Prep-m+N-cpc+1cp mê·‘ă·wō·nō·ṯê·nū מֵעֲוֺנֹתֵ֑ינוּ the chastisement forH4148 N-msc mū·sar מוּסַ֤ר our peaceH7965 N-msc+1cp šə·lō·w·mê·nū שְׁלוֹמֵ֙נוּ֙ [was] upon HimH5921 Prep+3ms ‘ā·lāw עָלָ֔יו and by His stripesH2250 Conj-w-Prep-b+N-fsc+3ms ū·ḇa·ḥă·ḇu·rā·ṯōw וּבַחֲבֻרָת֖וֹ are healedH7495 H8738 V-Nifal-Perf-3ms nir·pā- נִרְפָּא־ N1 we.H0 Prep+1cp lā·nū לָֽנוּ׃

Isa 53:6 All weH3605 N-msc+1cp kul·lā·nū כֻּלָּ֙נוּ֙ like sheepH6629 Prep-k-Art+N-cs kaṣ·ṣōn כַּצֹּ֣אן have gone astray;H8582 H8804 V-Qal-Perf-1cp tā·‘î·nū תָּעִ֔ינוּ N1 every oneH376 N-ms ’îš אִ֥ישׁ to his own way;H1870 Prep-l+N-csc+3ms lə·ḏar·kōw לְדַרְכּ֖וֹ we have turnedH6437 H8804 V-Qal-Perf-1cp pā·nî·nū פָּנִ֑ינוּ and YHWHH3068 Conj-w+N-proper-ms Yah·weh וַֽיהוָה֙ has laidH6293 H8689 V-Hifil-Perf-3ms hip̄·gî·a‘ הִפְגִּ֣יעַ on HimH0 Prep+3ms bōw בּ֔וֹ -H853 DirObjM ’êṯ אֵ֖ת the iniquityH5771 N-csc ‘ă·wōn עֲוֺ֥ן of us all.H3605 N-msc+1cp kul·lā·nū כֻּלָּֽנוּ׃

Isa 53:7 He was oppressed,H5065 H8738 V-Nifal-Perf-3ms nig·gaś נִגַּ֨שׂ and HeH1931 Conj-w+Pro-3ms wə·hū וְה֣וּא was afflicted,H6031 H8737 V-Nifal-Prtcpl-ms na·‘ă·neh נַעֲנֶה֮ and yet notH3808 Conj-w+Adv-NegPrt wə·lō וְלֹ֣א He openedH6605 H8799 V-Qal-Imperf-3ms yip̄·taḥ- יִפְתַּח־ His mouth;H6310 N-msc+3ms pîw פִּיו֒ as a lambH7716 Prep-k-Art+N-ms kaś·śeh כַּשֶּׂה֙ to the slaughter,H2874 Prep-l-Art+N-ms laṭ·ṭe·ḇaḥ לַטֶּ֣בַח He was ledH2986 H8714 V-Hofal-Imperf-3ms yū·ḇāl יוּבָ֔ל and as a sheepH7353 Conj-w-Prep-k+N-fs ū·ḵə·rā·ḥêl וּכְרָחֵ֕ל beforeH6440 Prep-l+N-cpc lip̄·nê לִפְנֵ֥י its shearersH1494 H8802 V-Qal-Prtcpl-mpc+3fs ḡō·zə·ze·hā גֹזְזֶ֖יהָ is silent,H481 H8738 V-Nifal-Perf-3fs ne·’ĕ·lā·māh נֶאֱלָ֑מָה so notH3808 Conj-w+Adv-NegPrt wə·lō וְלֹ֥א He openedH6605 H8799 V-Qal-Imperf-3ms yip̄·taḥ יִפְתַּ֖ח His mouth.H6310 N-msc+3ms pîw פִּֽיו׃

Isa 53:8 From prisonH6115 Prep-m+N-ms mê·‘ō·ṣer מֵעֹ֤צֶר and from judgment;H4941 Conj-w-Prep-m+N-ms ū·mim·miš·pāṭ וּמִמִּשְׁפָּט֙ He was takenH3947 H8795 V-QalPass-Perf-3ms luq·qāḥ לֻקָּ֔ח andH853 Conj-w+DirObjM wə·’eṯ- וְאֶת־ His generation?H1755 N-msc+3ms dō·w·rōw דּוֹר֖וֹ whoH4310 Interrog mî מִ֣י will declareH7878 H8787 V-Piel-Imperf-3ms yə·śō·w·ḥê·aḥ יְשׂוֹחֵ֑חַ forH3588 Conj kî כִּ֤י He was cut offH1504 H8738 V-Nifal-Perf-3ms niḡ·zar נִגְזַר֙ from the landH776 Prep-m+N-fsc mê·’e·reṣ מֵאֶ֣רֶץ of the living;H2416 Adj-mp ḥay·yîm חַיִּ֔ים N1 for the transgressionsH6588 Prep-m+N-msc mip·pe·ša‘ מִפֶּ֥שַׁע of My peopleH5971 N-msc+1cs ‘am·mî עַמִּ֖י was strickenH5061 N-ms ne·ḡa‘ נֶ֥גַע He.H0 Prep+3mp lā·mōw לָֽמוֹ׃

Isa 53:9 A Grave Assigned
and they madeH5414 H8799 Conj-w+V-Qal-ConsecImperf-3ms way·yit·tên וַיִּתֵּ֤ן N1 withH854 Prep ’eṯ- אֶת־ the wicked,H7563 Adj-mp rə·šā·‘îm רְשָׁעִים֙ His graveH6913 N-msc+3ms qiḇ·rōw קִבְר֔וֹ but withH854 Conj-w+Prep wə·’eṯ- וְאֶת־ the richH6223 Adj-ms ‘ā·šîr עָשִׁ֖יר at His death;H4194 Prep-b+N-mpc+3ms bə·mō·ṯāw בְּמֹתָ֑יו becauseH5921 Prep ‘al עַ֚ל noH3808 Adv-NegPrt lō- לֹא־ violence,H2555 N-ms ḥā·mās חָמָ֣ס He had doneH6213 H8804 V-Qal-Perf-3ms ‘ā·śāh עָשָׂ֔ה nor [was any]H3808 Conj-w+Adv-NegPrt wə·lō וְלֹ֥א deceitH4820 N-fs mir·māh מִרְמָ֖ה in His mouth.H6310 Prep-b+N-msc+3ms bə·p̄îw בְּפִֽיו׃ N2

Isa 53:10 Yet YHWHH3068 Conj-w+N-proper-ms Yah·weh וַיהוָ֞ה it pleasedH2654 H8804 V-Qal-Perf-3ms ḥā·p̄êṣ חָפֵ֤ץ to bruise HimH1792 H8763 V-Piel-Inf+3ms dak·kə·’ōw דַּכְּאוֹ֙ He has put [Him] to grief;H2470 H8689 V-Hifil-Perf-3ms he·ḥĕ·lî הֶֽחֱלִ֔י whenH518 Conj ’im- אִם־ You makeH7760 H8799 V-Qal-Imperf-3fs tā·śîm תָּשִׂ֤ים an offering for sin,H817 N-ms ’ā·šām אָשָׁם֙ N1 His soulH5315 N-fsc+3ms nap̄·šōw נַפְשׁ֔וֹ He shall seeH7200 H8799 V-Qal-Imperf-3ms yir·’eh יִרְאֶ֥ה [His] seed,H2233 N-ms ze·ra‘ זֶ֖רַע He shall prolongH748 H8686 V-Hifil-Imperf-3ms ya·’ă·rîḵ יַאֲרִ֣יךְ [His] days,H3117 N-mp yā·mîm יָמִ֑ים and the pleasureH2656 Conj-w+N-msc wə·ḥê·p̄eṣ וְחֵ֥פֶץ of YHWHH3068 N-proper-ms Yah·weh יְהוָ֖ה in His handH3027 Prep-b+N-fsc+3ms bə·yā·ḏōw בְּיָד֥וֹ shall prosper.H6743 H8799 V-Qal-Imperf-3ms yiṣ·lāḥ יִצְלָֽח׃

Isa 53:11 The laborH5999 Prep-m+N-msc mê·‘ă·mal מֵעֲמַ֤ל of His soul,H5315 N-fsc+3ms nap̄·šōw נַפְשׁוֹ֙ He shall seeH7200 H8799 V-Qal-Imperf-3ms yir·’eh יִרְאֶ֣ה N1 [and] be satisfied;H7646 H8799 V-Qal-Imperf-3ms yiś·bā‘ יִשְׂבָּ֔ע by His knowledgeH1847 Prep-b+N-fsc+3ms bə·ḏa‘·tōw בְּדַעְתּ֗וֹ shall justifyH6663 H8686 V-Hifil-Imperf-3ms yaṣ·dîq יַצְדִּ֥יק righteousH6662 Adj-ms ṣad·dîq צַדִּ֛יק My ServantH5650 N-msc+1cs ‘aḇ·dî עַבְדִּ֖י many;H7227 Prep-l-Art+Adj-mp lā·rab·bîm לָֽרַבִּ֑ים for their iniquitiesH5771 Conj-w+N-cpc+3mp wa·‘ă·wō·nō·ṯām וַעֲוֺנֹתָ֖ם HeH1931 Pro-3ms hū ה֥וּא shall bear.H5445 H8799 V-Qal-Imperf-3ms yis·bōl יִסְבֹּֽל׃

Isa 53:12 ThereforeH3651 Adv lā·ḵên לָכֵ֞ן I will divide a portionH2505 H8762 V-Piel-Imperf-1cs ’ă·ḥal·leq- אֲחַלֶּק־ HimH0 Prep+3ms lōw ל֣וֹ with the great,H7227 Prep-b-Art+Adj-mp ḇā·rab·bîm בָרַבִּ֗ים N1 and withH854 Conj-w+Prep wə·’eṯ- וְאֶת־ the strong;H6099 Adj-mp ‘ă·ṣū·mîm עֲצוּמִים֮ N2 He shall divideH2505 H8762 V-Piel-Imperf-3ms yə·ḥal·lêq יְחַלֵּ֣ק the spoilH7998 N-ms šā·lāl שָׁלָל֒ uponH8478 Prep ta·ḥaṯ תַּ֗חַת thatH834 Pro-r ’ă·šer אֲשֶׁ֨ר He poured outH6168 H8689 V-Hifil-Perf-3ms he·‘ĕ·rāh הֶעֱרָ֤ה unto death,H4194 Prep-l-Art+N-ms lam·mā·weṯ לַמָּ֙וֶת֙ His soulH5315 N-fsc+3ms nap̄·šōw נַפְשׁ֔וֹ and withH854 Conj-w+Prep wə·’eṯ- וְאֶת־ the transgressors;H6586 H8802 V-Qal-Prtcpl-mp pō·šə·‘îm פֹּשְׁעִ֖ים N3 He was numberedH4487 H8738 V-Nifal-Perf-3ms nim·nāh נִמְנָ֑ה and HeH1931 Conj-w+Pro-3ms wə·hū וְהוּא֙ the sinH2399 N-msc ḥêṭ- חֵטְא־ of many,H7227 Adj-mp rab·bîm רַבִּ֣ים boreH5375 H8804 V-Qal-Perf-3ms nā·śā נָשָׂ֔א and for the transgressorsH6586 H8802 Conj-w-Prep-l-Art+V-Qal-Prtcpl-mp wə·lap·pō·šə·‘îm וְלַפֹּשְׁעִ֖ים made intercession.H6293 H8686 V-Hifil-Imperf-3ms yap̄·gî·a‘ יַפְגִּֽיעַ׃ס

Maybe this post is also too long but my question to you-What did YHVH DO to Messiah on the cross?

Can you show me?
J.

Waiting for a reply @synergy 2:27 AM here.

 

[synergy]

Isa 53:1 Who hath believed our report? And to whom is the Zero'a Hashem [Yeshayah 52:10] revealed?

Isa 53:2 For he shall grow up before him as a tender plant, and as a Shoresh (Root, Shoresh Yishai, Moshiach, Yeshayah 11:10, Sanhedrin93b) out of a dry ground; he hath no form nor comeliness; and when we shall see him, there is no beauty that we should desire [Chaggai 2:7] him.

Isa 53:3 He is despised and chadal ishim (rejected by men); a man of sorrows, and acquainted with suffering; and we hid as it were our faces from him; he was despised, and we esteemed him not.

Isa 53:4 Surely he hath borne our sufferings, and nasah (carried [Vayikra 16:22; Yeshayah 53:12)] our sorrows; yet we did esteem him stricken, [i.e., like a leper is stricken] smitten of G-d, and afflicted [see verse 8 below].

How can you say Messiah was NOT smitten?



Isa 53:5 But he was pierced [Yeshayah 51:9; Zecharyah 12:10 Sukkah 52a, Tehillim 22:17 Targum Hashivim] for our transgressions, he was bruised mei'avonoteinu (for our iniquities); the musar (chastisement) (that brought us shalom [Yeshayah 54:10] was upon him [Moshiach]; and at the cost of his (Moshiach's) chaburah (stripes, lacerations) we are healed.

Isa 53:6 All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own derech (way; see Prov 16:25); and Hashem hath laid on him [Moshiach] the avon (iniquity, the guilt that separates from G-d) of us all.

Isa 53:7 He was oppressed, and he was afflicted, yet he opened not his mouth; he is brought as a seh (lamb; see Shemot 12:3) to the slaughter, and as a sheep before her shearers is dumb, so he openeth not his mouth.

Isa 53:8 He was taken from prison and from judgment; and who of his generation declared? For he was cut off [ Dan_9:26 ; Lev_17:10 ] out of Eretz Chayyim [this refers to the mot of Moshiach Ben Dovid, see Isa_53:12 ] mipesha ami (for the transgression of my people [Yisroel]) -nega (plague cf Psa_91:10 ) lamo ([fell] on him [i.e., Moshiach; in light of Psa_11:7 and Job_22:2 we are warranted in saying the suffix is a singular, "him," not "them". Cf Gen_9:26-27 ; Deu_33:2 ; Isa_44:15 ; also compare 1Ch_21:17 ]).
Isa 53:9 And he made his kever (grave) with the resha'im, and with the oisher (rich man; see Mt 27:57-60) bemotayv (in his deaths, intensive plural should be translated singular, death); because he had done no chamas (violence), neither was any mirmah (deceit) in his mouth. T.N. We stray as sheep; we return in Moshiach as children (zera); the Techiyas HaMoshiach (Resurrection of Moshiach) predicted in v. 10 [Dead Sea Scrolls Isaiah Scroll says Moshiach "will see the light [of life];" see also the Targum HaShivim]

Isa 53:10 Yet it pleased Hashem to bruise him; He hath put him to suffering; when Thou shalt make his nefesh an asham offering for sin, he (Moshiach) shall see zera [see Psalm 16 and Yn 1:12 OJBC], He shall prolong his yamim (days) and the chefetz Hashem (pleasure, will of Hashem) shall prosper in his [Moshiach's] hand.

No smiting?

Isa 53:11 He [Hashem] shall see of the travail of his [Moshiach's] nefesh, and shall be satisfied; by knowledge of him [Moshiach] shall Tzadik Avdi ["My Righteous Servant," Moshiach, Zecharyah 3:8, Yirmeyah 23:5; Zecharyah 6:11-12, Ezra 3:8 Yehoshua, Yeshua shmo] justify many (Ro 5:1); for he [Moshiach] shall bear their avon (iniquities).

Isa 53:12 Therefore will I divide him a portion with the great, and he shall divide the spoil with the strong; because he hath poured out his nefesh unto mavet (death); and he was numbered with the transgressors; and he nasah (Lv 16:22, carried) (like the Yom Kippur scapegoat) the sin of many, and made intercession [did the work of a mafgi'a, intercessor] for the transgressors [see Lk 23:34 OJBC].

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1Who would have believed our report, and to whom was the arm of the Lord revealed? אמִ֥י הֶֽאֱמִ֖ין לִשְׁמֻֽעָתֵ֑נוּ וּזְר֥וֹעַ יְהֹוָ֖ה עַל־מִ֥י נִגְלָֽתָה:

2And he came up like a sapling before it, and like a root from dry ground, he had neither form nor comeliness; and we saw him that he had no appearance. Now shall we desire him? בוַיַּ֨עַל כַּיּוֹנֵ֜ק לְפָנָ֗יו וְכַשֹּׁ֙רֶשׁ֙ מֵאֶ֣רֶץ צִיָּ֔ה לֹא־תֹ֥אַר ל֖וֹ וְלֹ֣א הָדָ֑ר וְנִרְאֵ֥הוּ וְלֹֽא־מַרְאֶ֖ה וְנֶֽחְמְדֵֽהוּ:

3Despised and rejected by men, a man of pains and accustomed to illness, and as one who hides his face from us, despised and we held him of no account. גנִבְזֶה֙ וַֽחֲדַ֣ל אִישִׁ֔ים אִ֥ישׁ מַכְאֹב֖וֹת וִיד֣וּעַ חֹ֑לִי וּכְמַסְתֵּ֚ר פָּנִים֙ מִמֶּ֔נּוּ נִבְזֶ֖ה וְלֹ֥א חֲשַׁבְנֻֽהוּ:

4Indeed, he bore our illnesses, and our pains-he carried them, yet we accounted him as plagued, smitten by God and oppressed. דאָכֵ֚ן חֳלָיֵ֙נוּ֙ ה֣וּא נָשָׂ֔א וּמַכְאֹבֵ֖ינוּ סְבָלָ֑ם וַֽאֲנַ֣חְנוּ חֲשַׁבְנֻ֔הוּ נָג֛וּעַ מֻכֵּ֥ה אֱלֹהִ֖ים וּמְעֻנֶּֽה:

5But he was pained because of our transgressions, crushed because of our iniquities; the chastisement of our welfare was upon him, and with his wound we were healed. הוְהוּא֙ מְחֹלָ֣ל מִפְּשָׁעֵ֔נוּ מְדֻכָּ֖א מֵֽעֲוֹֽנוֹתֵ֑ינוּ מוּסַ֚ר שְׁלוֹמֵ֙נוּ֙ עָלָ֔יו וּבַֽחֲבֻֽרָת֖וֹ נִרְפָּא־לָֽנוּ:

6We all went astray like sheep, we have turned, each one on his way, and the Lord accepted his prayers for the iniquity of all of us. וכֻּלָּ֙נוּ֙ כַּצֹּ֣אן תָּעִ֔ינוּ אִ֥ישׁ לְדַרְכּ֖וֹ פָּנִ֑ינוּ וַֽיהֹוָה֙ הִפְגִּ֣יעַ בּ֔וֹ אֵ֖ת עֲו‍ֹ֥ן כֻּלָּֽנוּ:

7He was oppressed, and he was afflicted, yet he would not open his mouth; like a lamb to the slaughter he would be brought, and like a ewe that is mute before her shearers, and he would not open his mouth. זנִגַּ֨שׂ וְה֣וּא נַֽעֲנֶה֘ וְלֹ֣א יִפְתַּח־פִּיו֒ כַּשֶּׂה֙ לַטֶּ֣בַח יוּבָ֔ל וּכְרָחֵ֕ל לִפְנֵ֥י גֹֽזְזֶ֖יהָ נֶֽאֱלָ֑מָה וְלֹ֥א יִפְתַּ֖ח פִּֽיו:

8From imprisonment and from judgment he is taken, and his generation who shall tell? For he was cut off from the land of the living; because of the transgression of my people, a plague befell them. חמֵעֹ֚צֶר וּמִמִּשְׁפָּט֙ לֻקָּ֔ח וְאֶת־דּוֹר֖וֹ מִ֣י יְשׂוֹחֵ֑חַ כִּ֚י נִגְזַר֙ מֵאֶ֣רֶץ חַיִּ֔ים מִפֶּ֥שַׁע עַמִּ֖י נֶ֥גַע לָֽמוֹ:

9And he gave his grave to the wicked, and to the wealthy with his kinds of death, because he committed no violence, and there was no deceit in his mouth. טוַיִּתֵּ֚ן אֶת־רְשָׁעִים֙ קִבְר֔וֹ וְאֶת־עָשִׁ֖יר בְּמֹתָ֑יו עַל לֹֽא־חָמָ֣ס עָשָׂ֔ה וְלֹ֥א מִרְמָ֖ה בְּפִֽיו:

10And the Lord wished to crush him, He made him ill; if his soul makes itself restitution, he shall see children, he shall prolong his days, and God's purpose shall prosper in his hand. יוַֽיהֹוָ֞ה חָפֵ֚ץ דַּכְּאוֹ֙ הֶֽחֱלִ֔י אִם־תָּשִׂ֚ים אָשָׁם֙ נַפְשׁ֔וֹ יִרְאֶ֥ה זֶ֖רַע יַֽאֲרִ֣יךְ יָמִ֑ים וְחֵ֥פֶץ יְהֹוָ֖ה בְּיָד֥וֹ יִצְלָֽח:

11From the toil of his soul he would see, he would be satisfied; with his knowledge My servant would vindicate the just for many, and their iniquities he would bear. יאמֵֽעֲמַ֚ל נַפְשׁוֹ֙ יִרְאֶ֣ה יִשְׂבָּ֔ע בְּדַעְתּ֗וֹ יַצְדִּ֥יק צַדִּ֛יק עַבְדִּ֖י לָֽרַבִּ֑ים וַֽעֲו‍ֹנֹתָ֖ם ה֥וּא יִסְבֹּֽל:
12Therefore, I will allot him a portion in public, and with the strong he shall share plunder, because he poured out his soul to death, and with transgressors he was counted; and he bore the sin of many, and interceded for the transgressors. יבלָכֵ֞ן אֲחַלֶּק־ל֣וֹ בָֽרַבִּ֗ים וְאֶת־עֲצוּמִים֘ יְחַלֵּ֣ק שָׁלָל֒ תַּ֗חַת אֲשֶׁ֨ר הֶֽעֱרָ֚ה לַמָּ֙וֶת֙ נַפְשׁ֔וֹ וְאֶת־פֹּֽשְׁעִ֖ים נִמְנָ֑ה וְהוּא֙ חֵֽטְא־רַבִּ֣ים נָשָׂ֔א וְלַפֹּֽשְׁעִ֖ים יַפְגִּֽיעַ:

Instead of quoting one verse-how about reading the whole Chapter-and take note of what God is doing TO the Suffering Servant-it PLEASED YHVH to bruise and crushed Messiah.

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Isa 53:1 The Suffering Servant
WhoH4310 Interrog mî מִ֥י N1 has believedH539 H8689 V-Hifil-Perf-3ms he·’ĕ·mîn הֶאֱמִ֖ין our report?H8052 Prep-l+N-fsc+1cp liš·mu·‘ā·ṯê·nū לִשְׁמֻעָתֵ֑נוּ and the armH2220 Conj-w+N-fsc ū·zə·rō·w·a‘ וּזְר֥וֹעַ of YHWHH3068 N-proper-ms Yah·weh יְהוָ֖ה toH5921 Prep ‘al- עַל־ whomH4310 Interrog mî מִ֥י has been revealed?H1540 H8738 V-Nifal-Perf-3fs niḡ·lā·ṯāh נִגְלָֽתָה׃ N2

Isa 53:2 for He shall grow upH5927 H8799 Conj-w+V-Qal-ConsecImperf-3ms way·ya·‘al וַיַּ֨עַל as a tender plant,H3126 Prep-k-Art+N-ms kay·yō·w·nêq כַּיּוֹנֵ֜ק before HimH6440 Prep-l+N-cpc+3ms lə·p̄ā·nāw לְפָנָ֗יו and as a rootH8328 Conj-w-Prep-k-Art+N-ms wə·ḵaš·šō·reš וְכַשֹּׁ֙רֶשׁ֙ out of ground;H776 Prep-m+N-fsc mê·’e·reṣ מֵאֶ֣רֶץ dryH6723 Adj-fs ṣî·yāh צִיָּ֔ה noH3808 Adv-NegPrt lō- לֹא־ formH8389 N-ms ṯō·’ar תֹ֥אַר He hasH0 Prep+3ms lōw ל֖וֹ orH3808 Conj-w+Adv-NegPrt wə·lō וְלֹ֣א comeliness;H1926 N-ms hā·ḏār הָדָ֑ר and we see HimH7200 H8799 Conj-w+V-Qal-ConjImperf.h-1cp+3ms wə·nir·’ê·hū וְנִרְאֵ֥הוּ and [There is] noH3808 Conj-w+Adv-NegPrt wə·lō- וְלֹֽא־ beautyH4758 N-ms mar·’eh מַרְאֶ֖ה that we should desire Him.H2530 H8799 Conj-w+V-Qal-ConjImperf.h-1cp+3ms wə·neḥ·mə·ḏê·hū וְנֶחְמְדֵֽהוּ׃

Isa 53:3 He is despisedH959 H8737 V-Nifal-Prtcpl-ms niḇ·zeh נִבְזֶה֙ and rejected byH2310 Conj-w+Adj-msc wa·ḥă·ḏal וַחֲדַ֣ל men;H376 N-mp ’î·šîm אִישִׁ֔ים a ManH376 N-msc ’îš אִ֥ישׁ of sorrows,H4341 N-mp maḵ·’ō·ḇō·wṯ מַכְאֹב֖וֹת and acquaintedH3045 H8803 Conj-w+V-Qal-QalPassPrtcpl-msc wî·ḏū·a‘ וִיד֣וּעַ with grief;H2483 N-ms ḥō·lî חֹ֑לִי and as it were we hidH4564 H8688 Conj-w-Prep-k+N-msc ū·ḵə·mas·têr וּכְמַסְתֵּ֤ר [our] facesH6440 N-mp pā·nîm פָּנִים֙ from HimH4480 Prep+3ms mim·men·nū מִמֶּ֔נּוּ He was despised,H959 H8737 V-Nifal-Prtcpl-ms niḇ·zeh נִבְזֶ֖ה and notH3808 Conj-w+Adv-NegPrt wə·lō וְלֹ֥א we did esteem Him.H2803 H8804 V-Qal-Perf-1cp+3ms ḥă·šaḇ·nu·hū חֲשַׁבְנֻֽהוּ׃

Isa 53:4 SurelyH403 Adv ’ā·ḵên אָכֵ֤ן our griefs,H2483 N-mpc+1cp ḥo·lā·yê·nū חֳלָיֵ֙נוּ֙ HeH1931 Pro-3ms hū ה֣וּא has borneH5375 H8804 V-Qal-Perf-3ms nā·śā נָשָׂ֔א and our sorrows;H4341 Conj-w+N-mpc+1cp ū·maḵ·’ō·ḇê·nū וּמַכְאֹבֵ֖ינוּ N1 carriedH5445 H8804 V-Qal-Perf-3ms+3mp sə·ḇā·lām סְבָלָ֑ם and yet weH587 Conj-w+Pro-1cp wa·’ă·naḥ·nū וַאֲנַ֣חְנוּ esteemed HimH2803 H8804 V-Qal-Perf-1cp+3ms ḥă·šaḇ·nu·hū חֲשַׁבְנֻ֔הוּ stricken,H5060 H8803 V-Qal-QalPassPrtcpl-ms nā·ḡū·a‘ נָג֛וּעַ Smitten byH5221 H8716 V-Hofal-Prtcpl-msc muk·kêh מֻכֵּ֥ה God,H430 N-mp ’ĕ·lō·hîm אֱלֹהִ֖ים and afflicted.H6031 H8794 Conj-w+V-Pual-Prtcpl-ms ū·mə·‘un·neh וּמְעֻנֶּֽה׃

Isa 53:5 But HeH1931 Conj-w+Pro-3ms wə·hū וְהוּא֙ [was] woundedH2490 H8775 V-Pual-Prtcpl-ms mə·ḥō·lāl מְחֹלָ֣ל for our transgressions,H6588 Prep-m+N-mpc+1cp mip·pə·šā·‘ê·nū מִפְּשָׁעֵ֔נוּ [He was] bruisedH1792 H8794 V-Pual-Prtcpl-ms mə·ḏuk·kā מְדֻכָּ֖א for our iniquities;H5771 Prep-m+N-cpc+1cp mê·‘ă·wō·nō·ṯê·nū מֵעֲוֺנֹתֵ֑ינוּ the chastisement forH4148 N-msc mū·sar מוּסַ֤ר our peaceH7965 N-msc+1cp šə·lō·w·mê·nū שְׁלוֹמֵ֙נוּ֙ [was] upon HimH5921 Prep+3ms ‘ā·lāw עָלָ֔יו and by His stripesH2250 Conj-w-Prep-b+N-fsc+3ms ū·ḇa·ḥă·ḇu·rā·ṯōw וּבַחֲבֻרָת֖וֹ are healedH7495 H8738 V-Nifal-Perf-3ms nir·pā- נִרְפָּא־ N1 we.H0 Prep+1cp lā·nū לָֽנוּ׃

Isa 53:6 All weH3605 N-msc+1cp kul·lā·nū כֻּלָּ֙נוּ֙ like sheepH6629 Prep-k-Art+N-cs kaṣ·ṣōn כַּצֹּ֣אן have gone astray;H8582 H8804 V-Qal-Perf-1cp tā·‘î·nū תָּעִ֔ינוּ N1 every oneH376 N-ms ’îš אִ֥ישׁ to his own way;H1870 Prep-l+N-csc+3ms lə·ḏar·kōw לְדַרְכּ֖וֹ we have turnedH6437 H8804 V-Qal-Perf-1cp pā·nî·nū פָּנִ֑ינוּ and YHWHH3068 Conj-w+N-proper-ms Yah·weh וַֽיהוָה֙ has laidH6293 H8689 V-Hifil-Perf-3ms hip̄·gî·a‘ הִפְגִּ֣יעַ on HimH0 Prep+3ms bōw בּ֔וֹ -H853 DirObjM ’êṯ אֵ֖ת the iniquityH5771 N-csc ‘ă·wōn עֲוֺ֥ן of us all.H3605 N-msc+1cp kul·lā·nū כֻּלָּֽנוּ׃

Isa 53:7 He was oppressed,H5065 H8738 V-Nifal-Perf-3ms nig·gaś נִגַּ֨שׂ and HeH1931 Conj-w+Pro-3ms wə·hū וְה֣וּא was afflicted,H6031 H8737 V-Nifal-Prtcpl-ms na·‘ă·neh נַעֲנֶה֮ and yet notH3808 Conj-w+Adv-NegPrt wə·lō וְלֹ֣א He openedH6605 H8799 V-Qal-Imperf-3ms yip̄·taḥ- יִפְתַּח־ His mouth;H6310 N-msc+3ms pîw פִּיו֒ as a lambH7716 Prep-k-Art+N-ms kaś·śeh כַּשֶּׂה֙ to the slaughter,H2874 Prep-l-Art+N-ms laṭ·ṭe·ḇaḥ לַטֶּ֣בַח He was ledH2986 H8714 V-Hofal-Imperf-3ms yū·ḇāl יוּבָ֔ל and as a sheepH7353 Conj-w-Prep-k+N-fs ū·ḵə·rā·ḥêl וּכְרָחֵ֕ל beforeH6440 Prep-l+N-cpc lip̄·nê לִפְנֵ֥י its shearersH1494 H8802 V-Qal-Prtcpl-mpc+3fs ḡō·zə·ze·hā גֹזְזֶ֖יהָ is silent,H481 H8738 V-Nifal-Perf-3fs ne·’ĕ·lā·māh נֶאֱלָ֑מָה so notH3808 Conj-w+Adv-NegPrt wə·lō וְלֹ֥א He openedH6605 H8799 V-Qal-Imperf-3ms yip̄·taḥ יִפְתַּ֖ח His mouth.H6310 N-msc+3ms pîw פִּֽיו׃

Isa 53:8 From prisonH6115 Prep-m+N-ms mê·‘ō·ṣer מֵעֹ֤צֶר and from judgment;H4941 Conj-w-Prep-m+N-ms ū·mim·miš·pāṭ וּמִמִּשְׁפָּט֙ He was takenH3947 H8795 V-QalPass-Perf-3ms luq·qāḥ לֻקָּ֔ח andH853 Conj-w+DirObjM wə·’eṯ- וְאֶת־ His generation?H1755 N-msc+3ms dō·w·rōw דּוֹר֖וֹ whoH4310 Interrog mî מִ֣י will declareH7878 H8787 V-Piel-Imperf-3ms yə·śō·w·ḥê·aḥ יְשׂוֹחֵ֑חַ forH3588 Conj kî כִּ֤י He was cut offH1504 H8738 V-Nifal-Perf-3ms niḡ·zar נִגְזַר֙ from the landH776 Prep-m+N-fsc mê·’e·reṣ מֵאֶ֣רֶץ of the living;H2416 Adj-mp ḥay·yîm חַיִּ֔ים N1 for the transgressionsH6588 Prep-m+N-msc mip·pe·ša‘ מִפֶּ֥שַׁע of My peopleH5971 N-msc+1cs ‘am·mî עַמִּ֖י was strickenH5061 N-ms ne·ḡa‘ נֶ֥גַע He.H0 Prep+3mp lā·mōw לָֽמוֹ׃

Isa 53:9 A Grave Assigned
and they madeH5414 H8799 Conj-w+V-Qal-ConsecImperf-3ms way·yit·tên וַיִּתֵּ֤ן N1 withH854 Prep ’eṯ- אֶת־ the wicked,H7563 Adj-mp rə·šā·‘îm רְשָׁעִים֙ His graveH6913 N-msc+3ms qiḇ·rōw קִבְר֔וֹ but withH854 Conj-w+Prep wə·’eṯ- וְאֶת־ the richH6223 Adj-ms ‘ā·šîr עָשִׁ֖יר at His death;H4194 Prep-b+N-mpc+3ms bə·mō·ṯāw בְּמֹתָ֑יו becauseH5921 Prep ‘al עַ֚ל noH3808 Adv-NegPrt lō- לֹא־ violence,H2555 N-ms ḥā·mās חָמָ֣ס He had doneH6213 H8804 V-Qal-Perf-3ms ‘ā·śāh עָשָׂ֔ה nor [was any]H3808 Conj-w+Adv-NegPrt wə·lō וְלֹ֥א deceitH4820 N-fs mir·māh מִרְמָ֖ה in His mouth.H6310 Prep-b+N-msc+3ms bə·p̄îw בְּפִֽיו׃ N2

Isa 53:10 Yet YHWHH3068 Conj-w+N-proper-ms Yah·weh וַיהוָ֞ה it pleasedH2654 H8804 V-Qal-Perf-3ms ḥā·p̄êṣ חָפֵ֤ץ to bruise HimH1792 H8763 V-Piel-Inf+3ms dak·kə·’ōw דַּכְּאוֹ֙ He has put [Him] to grief;H2470 H8689 V-Hifil-Perf-3ms he·ḥĕ·lî הֶֽחֱלִ֔י whenH518 Conj ’im- אִם־ You makeH7760 H8799 V-Qal-Imperf-3fs tā·śîm תָּשִׂ֤ים an offering for sin,H817 N-ms ’ā·šām אָשָׁם֙ N1 His soulH5315 N-fsc+3ms nap̄·šōw נַפְשׁ֔וֹ He shall seeH7200 H8799 V-Qal-Imperf-3ms yir·’eh יִרְאֶ֥ה [His] seed,H2233 N-ms ze·ra‘ זֶ֖רַע He shall prolongH748 H8686 V-Hifil-Imperf-3ms ya·’ă·rîḵ יַאֲרִ֣יךְ [His] days,H3117 N-mp yā·mîm יָמִ֑ים and the pleasureH2656 Conj-w+N-msc wə·ḥê·p̄eṣ וְחֵ֥פֶץ of YHWHH3068 N-proper-ms Yah·weh יְהוָ֖ה in His handH3027 Prep-b+N-fsc+3ms bə·yā·ḏōw בְּיָד֥וֹ shall prosper.H6743 H8799 V-Qal-Imperf-3ms yiṣ·lāḥ יִצְלָֽח׃

Isa 53:11 The laborH5999 Prep-m+N-msc mê·‘ă·mal מֵעֲמַ֤ל of His soul,H5315 N-fsc+3ms nap̄·šōw נַפְשׁוֹ֙ He shall seeH7200 H8799 V-Qal-Imperf-3ms yir·’eh יִרְאֶ֣ה N1 [and] be satisfied;H7646 H8799 V-Qal-Imperf-3ms yiś·bā‘ יִשְׂבָּ֔ע by His knowledgeH1847 Prep-b+N-fsc+3ms bə·ḏa‘·tōw בְּדַעְתּ֗וֹ shall justifyH6663 H8686 V-Hifil-Imperf-3ms yaṣ·dîq יַצְדִּ֥יק righteousH6662 Adj-ms ṣad·dîq צַדִּ֛יק My ServantH5650 N-msc+1cs ‘aḇ·dî עַבְדִּ֖י many;H7227 Prep-l-Art+Adj-mp lā·rab·bîm לָֽרַבִּ֑ים for their iniquitiesH5771 Conj-w+N-cpc+3mp wa·‘ă·wō·nō·ṯām וַעֲוֺנֹתָ֖ם HeH1931 Pro-3ms hū ה֥וּא shall bear.H5445 H8799 V-Qal-Imperf-3ms yis·bōl יִסְבֹּֽל׃

Isa 53:12 ThereforeH3651 Adv lā·ḵên לָכֵ֞ן I will divide a portionH2505 H8762 V-Piel-Imperf-1cs ’ă·ḥal·leq- אֲחַלֶּק־ HimH0 Prep+3ms lōw ל֣וֹ with the great,H7227 Prep-b-Art+Adj-mp ḇā·rab·bîm בָרַבִּ֗ים N1 and withH854 Conj-w+Prep wə·’eṯ- וְאֶת־ the strong;H6099 Adj-mp ‘ă·ṣū·mîm עֲצוּמִים֮ N2 He shall divideH2505 H8762 V-Piel-Imperf-3ms yə·ḥal·lêq יְחַלֵּ֣ק the spoilH7998 N-ms šā·lāl שָׁלָל֒ uponH8478 Prep ta·ḥaṯ תַּ֗חַת thatH834 Pro-r ’ă·šer אֲשֶׁ֨ר He poured outH6168 H8689 V-Hifil-Perf-3ms he·‘ĕ·rāh הֶעֱרָ֤ה unto death,H4194 Prep-l-Art+N-ms lam·mā·weṯ לַמָּ֙וֶת֙ His soulH5315 N-fsc+3ms nap̄·šōw נַפְשׁ֔וֹ and withH854 Conj-w+Prep wə·’eṯ- וְאֶת־ the transgressors;H6586 H8802 V-Qal-Prtcpl-mp pō·šə·‘îm פֹּשְׁעִ֖ים N3 He was numberedH4487 H8738 V-Nifal-Perf-3ms nim·nāh נִמְנָ֑ה and HeH1931 Conj-w+Pro-3ms wə·hū וְהוּא֙ the sinH2399 N-msc ḥêṭ- חֵטְא־ of many,H7227 Adj-mp rab·bîm רַבִּ֣ים boreH5375 H8804 V-Qal-Perf-3ms nā·śā נָשָׂ֔א and for the transgressorsH6586 H8802 Conj-w-Prep-l-Art+V-Qal-Prtcpl-mp wə·lap·pō·šə·‘îm וְלַפֹּשְׁעִ֖ים made intercession.H6293 H8686 V-Hifil-Imperf-3ms yap̄·gî·a‘ יַפְגִּֽיעַ׃ס

Maybe this post is also too long but my question to you-What did YHVH DO to Messiah on the cross?

Can you show me?
J.

Are those Masoretic Text translations? If so then we have a classic case of LXX vs Masoretic Text contest. Be very careful with the Masoretic text. It was compiled when the Jews tried to snuff out at all costs this abhorrent mutation called Christianity. As an example, the "virgin shall conceive" verse (Isa 7:14) was changed to a maiden shall conceive by the Masoretes.

 

[Johann]

Are those Masoretic Text translations? If so then we have a classic case of LXX vs Masoretic Text contest. Be very careful with the Masoretic text. It was compiled when the Jews tried to snuff out at all costs this abhorrent mutation called Christianity. As an example, the "virgin shall conceive" verse (Isa 7:14) was changed to a maiden shall conceive by the Masoretes.

Do you know who compiled the LXX?

Short version-

Who commissioned the Septuagint?
According to tradition, Ptolemy II Philadelphus (the Greek Pharaoh of Egypt) sent seventy-two Hebrew translators—six from each of the Twelve Tribes of Israel—from Jerusalem to Alexandria to translate the Tanakh from Biblical Hebrew into Koine Greek, for inclusion in his library.

An aside-I have shown you Messiah was smitten by YHVH-yes?

 

[synergy]

Do you know who compiled the LXX?

The Alexandrian Jews, a few centuries before Christ, when the Jews had not encountered Christianity yet.

An aside-I have shown you Messiah was smitten by YHVH-yes?

The LXX doesn't even mention God in Isa 53:4, let alone God smitting Jesus. So what's going on?

 

[Johann]

The Alexandrian Jews, a few centuries before Christ, when the Jews had not encountered Christianity yet.

The LXX doesn't even mention God, let alone smitting Jesus. So whats going on?

So-if I read you correctly-it was not Jesus in Isaiah 53-yes?

Did you find out who wrote the LXX? If so, you will understand what's going on here.
J.

 

[synergy]

So-if I read you correctly-it was not Jesus in Isaiah 53-yes?

I'm talking about God the Father smitting Jesus. That's what you're claiming, right? Where is God the Father in Isa 53:4 in the LXX text?

Did you find out who wrote the LXX? If so, you will understand what's going on here.
J.

Alexandrian Jews translated it before any threat of any Christianity. The Masoretes compiled their text about 900 years later when Christianity had robbed them of many of their people and was threatening the very core of their Pharisaic religion.

 

[Johann]

I'm talking about God the Father smitting Jesus. That's what you're claiming, right? Where is God the Father in Isa 53:4?

Alexandrian Jews translated it before any threat of any Christianity. The Masoretes compiled it about 900 years later when Christianity had robbed them of many of their people and was threatening the very core of their Pharisaic religion.

And you didn't answer my question-as I am familiar with the LXX etc. In Isaiah 53 is this speaking of Messiah or not? YisraEL?

מוכה אלוהים, ומכאיב.

Struck by God, and painful.

nâkâh
BDB Definition:
1) to strike, smite, hit, beat, slay, kill
1a) (Niphal) to be stricken or smitten
1b) (Pual) to be stricken or smitten
1c) (Hiphil)
1c1) to smite, strike, beat, scourge, clap, applaud, give a thrust
1c2) to smite, kill, slay (man or beast)
1c3) to smite, attack, attack and destroy, conquer, subjugate, ravage
1c4) to smite, chastise, send judgment upon, punish, destroy
1d) (Hophal) to be smitten
1d1) to receive a blow
1d2) to be wounded
1d3) to be beaten
1d4) to be (fatally) smitten, be killed, be slain
1d5) to be attacked and captured
1d6) to be smitten (with disease)
1d7) to be blighted (of plants)
Part of Speech: verb
A Related Word by BDB/Strong’s Number: a primitive root
Same Word by TWOT Number: 1364
Total KJV Occurrences: 497

Do you read Hebrew?

 

[synergy]

And you didn't answer my question-as I am familiar with the LXX etc. In Isaiah 53 is this speaking of Messiah or not? YisraEL?

My opinion is that Isaiah 53 is talking about the Son of God, the Word of God, Jesus Himself.

Now could you answer my question: Why, in your opinion, is there a discrepancy between LXX and the Masoretic Text concerning Isa 53:4?

 

[Johann]

My opinion is that Isaiah 53 is talking about the Son of God, the Word of God, Jesus Himself.

Now could you answer my question: Why, in your opinion, is there a discrepancy between LXX and the Masoretic Text concerning Isa 53:4?

Your opinion?
3:31 AM here.
Signing off
J.

 

[synergy]

Your opinion?
3:31 AM here.
Signing off
J.

I answered your question. You don't want to answer mine? That's your call.

Interesting discussion. I'm beginning to see where portions of Christianity went wrong. They followed the Pharisaic-modified Masoretic Text instead of the Apostolic-endorsed LXX.

Have a nice night, my friend.

 

[Diserner]

Now could you answer my question: Why, in your opinion, is there a discrepancy between LXX and the Masoretic Text concerning Isa 53:4?

It's well known the Jews began reacting to Christian polemics using the LXX, by either changing the LXX, casting doubt on it, or reaffirming the superiority of the Hebrew. You will notice Isaiah 9:6 is also changed significantly in the LXX, and there are other examples. We have the Great Isaiah Scroll confirming the MT text type in these places hundreds of years earlier.

 

[civic]

I answered your question. You don't want to answer mine? That's your call.

Interesting discussion. I'm beginning to see where portions of Christianity went wrong. They followed the Pharisaic-modified Masoretic Text instead of the Apostolic-endorsed LXX.

Have a nice night, my friend.

Yep see below Is 53:4- οὗτος τὰς ἁμαρτίας ἡμῶν φέρει καὶ περὶ ἡμῶν ὀδυνᾶται, καὶ ἡμεῖς ἐλογισάμεθα αὐτὸν εἶναι ἐν πόνῳ καὶ ἐν πληγῇ καὶ ἐν κακώσει.

 

[synergy]

It's well known the Jews began reacting to Christian polemics using the LXX, by either changing the LXX, casting doubt on it, or reaffirming the superiority of the Hebrew. You will notice Isaiah 9:6 is also changed significantly in the LXX, and there are other examples. We have the Great Isaiah Scroll confirming the MT text type in these places hundreds of years earlier.

The Masoretes had no second thoughts against manipulating the OT word of God. They deliberately changed the word virgin to maiden to throw Christians off the true path. They were certainly a conniving bunch.