Isaiah 53:5 The chastisement of our peace was upon Him

[Johann]

correct, don't get ahead of us... ok.... (smile), I hear you. let's take this one step at a time. let get the word of God deep down in our spirit so all may know..... I know you're ready, but let's all come alone at the same pace.... thank in Christ. boy this is Good.

as the old folks say. "hold your horses for a second". let all learn together.

101G.

I am awake for two days now-will be a silent observer @101G and steer my horse to the nearest coffee café.
Shalom

 

[civic]

Now do we all understand that this is God in that flesh, THE ECHAD in plain view. at the birth, (the Ordinal Last, Son). and God anointing that flesh at his baptism, (the Ordinal First, Father). the ARM of God is the Ordinal JESUS himself in diversified Spirit, as FIRST and LAST.

101G.

no we understand that He is the Son in the flesh who is God, but He is not the Father who cannot be seen, dwells in unapproachable light who no man ever seen as per Jesus. The Son is God, but not the Father who is God.

hope this helps !!!

 

[101G]

I am awake for two days now-will be a silent observer @101G and steer my horse to the nearest coffee café.
Shalom

in Christ 101G will give you what God, the Lord Jesus gave unto 101G.

with that. 101G will make this statement. "God's "OWN ARM" is the SACARFICE in Isaiah chapter 53. scripture, Isaiah 53:1 "Who hath believed our report? and to whom is the arm of the LORD revealed?"

God is REVEALING his "OWN" ARM. his OWN ARM is him in the ECHAD of First and Last. and here the LAST is being revealed.
A. Isaiah 53:2 "For he shall grow up before him as a tender plant, and as a root out of a dry ground: he hath no form nor comeliness; and when we shall see him, there is no beauty that we should desire him."
He here is not another separate person.... remember this is GOD'S .... "OWN" ARM being revealed.... this is bible. the dry ground is Mary's womb. the he is the Son of Isaiah 9:6. the child born is Flesh.... hence the ARM of "FLESH". the Son is GIVEN.... not born. for God is never born, he is always.

101G. will stop here for comments.

 

[Johann]

in Christ 101G will give you what God, the Lord Jesus gave unto 101G.

with that. 101G will make this statement. "God's "OWN ARM" is the SACARFICE in Isaiah chapter 53. scripture, Isaiah 53:1 "Who hath believed our report? and to whom is the arm of the LORD revealed?"

God is REVEALING his "OWN" ARM. his OWN ARM is him in the ECHAD of First and Last. and here the LAST is being revealed.
A. Isaiah 53:2 "For he shall grow up before him as a tender plant, and as a root out of a dry ground: he hath no form nor comeliness; and when we shall see him, there is no beauty that we should desire him."
He here is not another separate person.... remember this is GOD'S .... "OWN" ARM being revealed.... this is bible. the dry ground is Mary's womb. the he is the Son of Isaiah 9:6. the child born is Flesh.... hence the ARM of "FLESH". the Son is GIVEN.... not born. for God is never born, he is always.

101G. will stop here for comments.

Load shedding trice a day in S Africa-lasting up to two hours.
You guys can carry on with the discussion.

 

[101G]

no we understand that He is the Son in the flesh who is God, but He is not the Father who cannot be seen,

Understand, the Lord Jesus is God's OWN, OWN, OWN, ARM. and this ARM, which is the ECHAD or as the Greeks say, the "ANOTHER" of God in Flesh. supportive scripture, John 1:13 "Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God." John 1:14 "And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth."

civic, if you will bare with 101G, we will get to the revealing of the Father.... ok. let's get God's ARM down first... ok. and then we will reveal the Father in the Son.

101G

 

[civic]

Understand, the Lord Jesus is God's OWN, OWN, OWN, ARM. and this ARM, which is the ECHAD or as the Greeks say, the "ANOTHER" of God in Flesh. supportive scripture, John 1:13 "Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God." John 1:14 "And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth."

civic, if you will bare with 101G, we will get to the revealing of the Father.... ok. let's get God's ARM down first... ok. and then we will reveal the Father in the Son.

101G

Its incorrect from the start with modalism/oneness. But go ahead and we will see who buys into it.

 

[101G]

Its incorrect from the start with modalism/oneness. But go ahead and we will see who buys into it.

if so correct the scriptures. this is why we're here.

101G.

 

[101G]

let's address your concerns.
Isaiah 9:6 "For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace."

there are two transactions made here. "A child is Born". (FLESH BONE and BLOOD). "A Son is GIVEN". (spirit).

A. your body is not you, only the house/temple or dwelling place you the "spirit" came in. it is produce by your Parents.

B. the "spirit" that dwells in that body come from God, and when we die, returns to God.

so what was GIVEN is not of this world. the spirit given here is God himself in the ECHAD. scripture, Matthew 1:23 "Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us." the way God is with us .... is by being in a body. God is never born. as with our spirits, supportive scripture, Isaiah 42:5 "Thus saith God the LORD, he that created the heavens, and stretched them out; he that spread forth the earth, and that which cometh out of it; he that giveth breath unto the people upon it, and spirit to them that walk therein:"

now this Son is called the "EVERLASTING FATHER" as said, 101G will not get ahead of himself.

so what was in that body of Flesh.... "The ARM of FLESH" is GOD. now who is the ARM of, of, of, of, God. his "OWN" self. but how? in the EQUAL SHARE of the ECHAD of FIRST and LAST. there is no way of getting around this. because the FIRST is ALSO the LAST. supportive scripture, Isaiah 48:12 "Hearken unto me, O Jacob and Israel, my called; I am he; I am the first, I also am the last."

and who is the "I AM HE?" answer, John 8:24 "I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins." there he is God, the Lord Jesus, "I AM HE". and who is the "I am he?" OT, Isaiah 43:10 "Ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me." Isaiah 43:11 "I, even I, am the LORD; and beside me there is no saviour."

how plain can one be.

101G.

 

[Johann]

now this Son is called the "EVERLASTING FATHER" as said, 101G will not get ahead of himself.

Mashiach is called more than that-so if-according to your reasoning-Messiah is YHVH-which means YHVH is YHVH?

 

[101G]

Mashiach is called more than that-so if-according to your reasoning-Messiah is YHVH-which means YHVH is YHVH?

one word "ECHAD" in TIME, PLACE, ORDER, and RANK. JESUS is "LORD" and shared in flesh "Lord". just as Psalms 110:1 states. for verse 5 clear up the matter.

101G.

 

[101G]

@Johann,
listen, Psalms 110:1 "A Psalm of David. The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool."
Lord: here is H113 אָדוֹן 'adown (aw-done') n-m.
אָדֹן 'adon (aw-done') [shortened]
1. sovereign (i.e. controller, human or divine).
2. lord.
{also used as a prefix for names}
[from an unused root (meaning to rule)]
KJV: lord, master, owner.

notice the strong # H113. now the same "Lord" who sits at the right of the "LORD", Psalms 110:5 "The Lord at thy right hand shall strike through kings in the day of his wrath."
Lord: H136 אֲדֹנָי 'Adonay (ad-o-noy') n-m.
1. (meaning) Lord (used as a proper name of God only).
2. (person) Adonai, The Lord God of Israel (which is actually “Yahweh God of Israel” - see Exodus 5:1 and 120 other occurrences).
[am emphatic form of H113]
KJV: (my) Lord.
Root(s): H113

did you see it? the "emphatic form of H113" now look up emphatic......

101G

 

[101G]

@Johann,
my source for the definitions for both "Lord" is the Mickelson's Enhanced Strong's Dictionaries of the Greek and Hebrew Testaments. please look these definitions up.

101G.

 

[101G]

now to all,
the term "Lord" in verse 5 as said is,
H136 אֲדֹנָי 'Adonay (ad-o-noy') n-m.
1. (meaning) Lord (used as a proper name of God only).
2. (person) Adonai, The Lord God of Israel (which is actually “Yahweh God of Israel” - see Exodus 5:1 and 120 other occurrences).
[am emphatic form of H113]
KJV: (my) Lord.
Root(s): H113

why is it rendered as 2. (person) Adonai, The Lord God of Israel (which is actually “Yahweh God of Israel” - see Exodus 5:1 and 120 other occurrences).
[am emphatic form of H113]

because God himself is "SHARED" Equally in Flesh just as Philippians 2:6 states, "Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:"

THIS IS THE "ECHAD" OF GOD IN PLAIN VIEW. Isaiah writing are correct. Isaiah 41:4 "Who hath wrought and done it, calling the generations from the beginning? I the LORD, the first, and with the last; I am he."

Isaiah 48:12 "Hearken unto me, O Jacob and Israel, my called; I am he; I am the first, I also am the last."

God is "WITH" the Last, but he is "ALSO" the Last. just as he is "WITH" God in John 1:1b and is God, John 1:1c.

there is no getting around this. scripture will not change. it's not changing for 101G, or anyone else.

101G.

 

[101G]

to all, 101G really didn't want to get ahead of himself. but when a concern comes up it has to be answered.

knowing that the Lord Jesus is God "ARM" in Flesh, an ARM of FLESH, now we can understand why our "Lord" was in obedience. which bring us back to Isaiah 53. in a G2758 κενόω kenoo (ke-no-ō') State, this is why he grew in wisdom and stature, body and mind. this growing of wisdom came from God himself the ordinal First, the Father. supportive scripture. Isaiah 50:4 "The Lord GOD hath given me the tongue of the learned, that I should know how to speak a word in season to him that is weary: he wakeneth morning by morning, he wakeneth mine ear to hear as the learned." Isaiah 50:5 "The Lord GOD hath opened mine ear, and I was not rebellious, neither turned away back." Isaiah 50:6 "I gave my back to the smiters, and my cheeks to them that plucked off the hair: I hid not my face from shame and spitting." Isaiah 50:7 "For the Lord GOD will help me; therefore shall I not be confounded: therefore have I set my face like a flint, and I know that I shall not be ashamed." Isaiah 50:8 "He is near that justifieth me; who will contend with me? let us stand together: who is mine adversary? let him come near to me." Isaiah 50:9 "Behold, the Lord GOD will help me; who is he that shall condemn me? lo, they all shall wax old as a garment; the moth shall eat them up."

note might want to make a cross reference there about his missing teenage years.

so the missing teenage years of the Lord Jesus ...... he was in school, the heavenly school learning in that G2758 κενόω kenoo (ke-no-ō') State while in flesh and blood. just as Philippians 2:7 states, "But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:" Philippians 2:8 "And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross."

so we see why he was humble as the ARM of Flesh. as Hebrews states, Hebrews 5:8 "Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered;"

101G.

 

[101G]

to all,
Isaiah 53:3 "He is despised and rejected of men; a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief: and we hid as it were our faces from him; he was despised, and we esteemed him not." Isaiah 53:4 "Surely he hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows: yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted."

why all of this, answer, as just said, Hebrews 5:7 "Who in the days of his flesh, when he had offered up prayers and supplications with strong crying and tears unto him that was able to save him from death, and was heard in that he feared;" Hebrews 5:8 "Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered;" Hebrews 5:9 "And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;" Hebrews 5:10 "Called of God an high priest after the order of Melchisedec."

why and what kind of High priest? Hebrews 4:14 "Seeing then that we have a great high priest, that is passed into the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our profession." Hebrews 4:15 "For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin." (ONE NEED TO READ THAT AGAIN). Hebrews 4:16 "Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need."

101G.

 

[101G]

now this "stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted"
Stricken: H5060 נָגַע naga` (naw-gah') v.
1. (properly) to touch.
2. to lay the hand upon (for any purpose).
3. (by euphemism) to lie with a woman.
4. (by implication) to reach.
5. (figuratively) to arrive, acquire.
6. (violently) to strike a blow (i.e. punish, defeat, destroy, etc.).
[a primitive root]
KJV: beat, (X be able to) bring (down), cast, come (nigh), draw near (nigh), get up, happen, join, near, plague, reach (up), smite, strike, touch.

Smitten: H5221 נָכָה nakah (naw-kaw') v.
to strike.
{lightly or severely, literally or figuratively}
[a primitive root]
KJV: beat, cast forth, clap, give (wounds), X go forward, X indeed, kill, make (slaughter), murderer, punish, slaughter, slay(-er, -ing), smite(-r, -ing), strike, be stricken, (give) stripes, X surely, wound.

who was this? let the Bible speak, Zechariah 12:10 "And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn."

pierced: H1856 דָּקַר daqar (daw-kar') v.
1. to stab.
2. (by analogy) to starve.
3. (figuratively) to revile.
[a primitive root]
KJV: pierce, strike (thrust) through, wound.
[?]

Wounded:: H2490 חָלַל chalal (chaw-lal') v.
1. (properly) to bore.
Bore: verb "To make a hole" means, stab, pierce, spear,
Bruised: it means Crucify, https://www.wordhippo.com/what-is/another-word-for/bruise.html#C0-10
and it also means "hammer". and another word for smitten, meaning nailed


but in Zechariah 12:10 what was poured out was, "And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications"

Supplication: H8469 תַּחֲנוּן tachanuwn (tach-an-oon') n-m.
תַּחֲנוּנָה tachanuwnah (tach-an-oo-naw') [feminine]
earnest prayer.
[from H2603]
KJV: intreaty, supplication.
Root(s): H2603

and earnest prayer in "INTERCESSION".... (smile). Romans 8:26 "Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered."
here "Pray For" G4336 προσεύχομαι proseuchomai (pros-ev'-cho-mai) v.
to pray to God, i.e. supplicate, worship.
[from G4314 and G2172]
KJV: pray (X earnestly, for), make prayer
Root(s): G4314, G2172

bingo there it is "earnest prayer"

101G will stop here for now, to hear, any comments, or opposition.

 

[Johann]

now this "stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted"
Stricken: H5060 נָגַע naga` (naw-gah') v.
1. (properly) to touch.
2. to lay the hand upon (for any purpose).
3. (by euphemism) to lie with a woman.
4. (by implication) to reach.
5. (figuratively) to arrive, acquire.
6. (violently) to strike a blow (i.e. punish, defeat, destroy, etc.).
[a primitive root]
KJV: beat, (X be able to) bring (down), cast, come (nigh), draw near (nigh), get up, happen, join, near, plague, reach (up), smite, strike, touch.

Smitten: H5221 נָכָה nakah (naw-kaw') v.
to strike.
{lightly or severely, literally or figuratively}
[a primitive root]
KJV: beat, cast forth, clap, give (wounds), X go forward, X indeed, kill, make (slaughter), murderer, punish, slaughter, slay(-er, -ing), smite(-r, -ing), strike, be stricken, (give) stripes, X surely, wound.

who was this? let the Bible speak, Zechariah 12:10 "And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn."

pierced: H1856 דָּקַר daqar (daw-kar') v.
1. to stab.
2. (by analogy) to starve.
3. (figuratively) to revile.
[a primitive root]
KJV: pierce, strike (thrust) through, wound.
[?]

Wounded:: H2490 חָלַל chalal (chaw-lal') v.
1. (properly) to bore.
Bore: verb "To make a hole" means, stab, pierce, spear,
Bruised: it means Crucify, https://www.wordhippo.com/what-is/another-word-for/bruise.html#C0-10
and it also means "hammer". and another word for smitten, meaning nailed


but in Zechariah 12:10 what was poured out was, "And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications"

Supplication: H8469 תַּחֲנוּן tachanuwn (tach-an-oon') n-m.
תַּחֲנוּנָה tachanuwnah (tach-an-oo-naw') [feminine]
earnest prayer.
[from H2603]
KJV: intreaty, supplication.
Root(s): H2603

and earnest prayer in "INTERCESSION".... (smile). Romans 8:26 "Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered."
here "Pray For" G4336 προσεύχομαι proseuchomai (pros-ev'-cho-mai) v.
to pray to God, i.e. supplicate, worship.
[from G4314 and G2172]
KJV: pray (X earnestly, for), make prayer
Root(s): G4314, G2172

bingo there it is "earnest prayer"

101G will stop here for now, to hear, any comments, or opposition.

Power came on just now and I noticed no one is willing to participate?

 

[Johann]

110:1 "The Lord says" Notice the word "Lord" is in all caps, therefore, it refers to the covenant name for God, YHWH, which is a form of the Hebrew verb, "to be" (cf. Exod. 3:14,. It is the Covenant God who speaks.

"to my Lord"
The second term for Lord has only a capital "L" and, therefore, reflects the Hebrew Adonai ("my Lord"). The Hebrew noun (BDB 101) means "owner," "husband," "lord," "master." It is obvious that this is a reference to the Messiah

"Sit" This term "sit" (BDB 442, KB 444, Qal imperative) has been seen in different ways. It looks as if, in context, it refers to the place of honor beside YHWH's throne. If that is the context, we are speaking of a co-ruler with YHWH, and if that is true, this is a strong implication of deity.

If "sit" refers to the finished work of the priest/king, which seems to be an allusion drawn in Heb. 1:2-3; 10:12-13, then the "sit" is a reference to a finished sacrificial work and the reign of the Messiah/High Priest (cf. Zechariah 3-4).

"at My right hand"
This is an anthropomorphic phrase speaking of the strongest arm of the human body. Most human beings are right-handed, therefore, that arm is used as a symbol of honor, power, authority, or preeminence.

"until" This preposition (BDB 723 III) is a rather problematic word for me because it seems to imply that this place of honor and power at God's right hand is limited in time until some events happen, but it has a wide semantic usage. The Messiah's reign will turn into the Father's reign (cf. 1 Cor. 25:24-25).

However, this same Hebrew consonantal term can be revocalized as the word, "seat." In this sense, the verb "make" would have two accusatives or objects, "seat" and "footstool." We learn from Assyrian wall paintings and carvings that the throne and table of the king rest on the backs of slaves and that may be the allusion to this phrase in Ps. 110:1.

"a footstool for Your feet" Again, this is an obvious ancient Oriental metaphor for victory over enemies (cf. Jos. 10:24).

110:2 "The Lord will stretch forth Your strong scepter from Zion" There have been several ways to translate this verse, but it is obvious that we are speaking of the universal reign of YHWH, moving from Jerusalem in concentric circles, to encompass all the world. There are numerous OT allusions to this event. This seems to be speaking of a reign of the Messiah as YHWH's representative.

The term "scepter" (BDB 641) originally referred to something made from wood.

1. a club for war

2. a staff for shepherding

It came to symbolize rule and authority. In a context of YHWH's reign, it may still refer to YHWH's authority and power through a representative leader (i.e., Moses' staff, cf. Exodus 4; 7).

J.

 

[civic]

And scripture declares God has wings. You seem to believe like the ancient pagan greeks. Can you draw for us a picture of your god and include feathers,wings,hands,arms,lips,eyelids,feet etc........ I would really like to see what this pagan god looks like...........now I know where the phrase "a chicken with lips" came from. I never realized it until now... We can do what the Israelites did and improve upon the golden calk they made. this one would be more interesting.

* God has "eyelids" (Ps. 11:4) -- either so he can close his eyes to rest, or to keep dust out
* God blows smoke out of his nostrils (Ps. 18:8)
* God made the earth by measuring its dirt in some scales and scooping up its water in the hollow of the palm of his hand (Is. 40:12)
* God has his feet propped up on the earth as his footstool (Is. 66:1; Matt. 5:34-35; Acts 7:49)
* God sits in a wheelchair (a throne with wheels) that is on fire (Dan. 7:9)
hmmm a strange God we read about eh ?

anthromorphisms gone amuck.

 

[101G]

Power came on just now and I noticed no one is willing to participate?

they will one way or another... (smile)

101G.