Isaiah 53:5 The chastisement of our peace was upon Him

civic said:
And scripture declares God has wings. You seem to believe like the ancient pagan greeks. Can you draw for us a picture of your god and include feathers,wings,hands,arms,lips,eyelids,feet etc........ I would really like to see what this pagan god looks like...........now I know where the phrase "a chicken with lips" came from. I never realized it until now... 😂 We can do what the Israelites did and improve upon the golden calk they made. this one would be more interesting.

* God has "eyelids" (Ps. 11:4) -- either so he can close his eyes to rest, or to keep dust out
* God blows smoke out of his nostrils (Ps. 18:8)
* God made the earth by measuring its dirt in some scales and scooping up its water in the hollow of the palm of his hand (Is. 40:12)
* God has his feet propped up on the earth as his footstool (Is. 66:1; Matt. 5:34-35; Acts 7:49)
* God sits in a wheelchair (a throne with wheels) that is on fire (Dan. 7:9)
hmmm a strange God we read about eh ?

anthromorphisms gone amuck. :)
Click to expand...
so we can take this as U do not understand? thought so.

101G.
 
civic said:
And scripture declares God has wings. You seem to believe like the ancient pagan greeks. Can you draw for us a picture of your god and include feathers,wings,hands,arms,lips,eyelids,feet etc........ I would really like to see what this pagan god looks like...........now I know where the phrase "a chicken with lips" came from. I never realized it until now... 😂 We can do what the Israelites did and improve upon the golden calk they made. this one would be more interesting.

* God has "eyelids" (Ps. 11:4) -- either so he can close his eyes to rest, or to keep dust out
* God blows smoke out of his nostrils (Ps. 18:8)
* God made the earth by measuring its dirt in some scales and scooping up its water in the hollow of the palm of his hand (Is. 40:12)
* God has his feet propped up on the earth as his footstool (Is. 66:1; Matt. 5:34-35; Acts 7:49)
* God sits in a wheelchair (a throne with wheels) that is on fire (Dan. 7:9)
hmmm a strange God we read about eh ?

anthromorphisms gone amuck. :)
Click to expand...
Guess you can say whatever you like-your prerogative.
 
Johann said:
Guess you can say whatever you like-your prerogative.
Click to expand...
thanks my point was made- sometimes scripture uses exaggeration to illustrate a point. its a teaching method used to get a point across and its effective :)

Edited no linked quote
 
Last edited by a moderator:
101G said:
one word "ECHAD" in TIME, PLACE, ORDER, and RANK. JESUS is "LORD" and shared in flesh "Lord". just as Psalms 110:1 states. for verse 5 clear up the matter.

101G.
Click to expand...
1 לְ·דָוִ֗ד le·da·Vid, of David מִ֫זְמ֥וֹר miz·Mor A Psalm נְאֻ֤ם ne·'Um said יְהוָ֨ה ׀ A·do·Nai The LORD לַֽ·אדֹנִ֗·י la·do·Ni, unto my Lord שֵׁ֥ב shev Sit לִֽ·ימִינִ֑·י li·mi·Ni; thou at my right hand עַד־ 'ad- Until אָשִׁ֥ית 'a·Shit until I make אֹ֝יְבֶ֗י·ךָ 'o·ye·Vei·cha, thine enemies הֲדֹ֣ם ha·Dom stool לְ·רַגְלֶֽי·ךָ׃ le·rag·Lei·cha. your feet


A Psalm miz·mō·wrנְאֻ֤ם said nə·’umיְהוָ֨ה׀ YHWH Yah·wehלַֽאדֹנִ֗י to my Lord, la·ḏō·nîשֵׁ֥ב Sit šêḇלִֽימִינִ֑י at My right hand, lî·mî·nîעַד־ Till ‘aḏ-אָשִׁ֥ית I make ’ā·šîṯאֹ֝יְבֶ֗יךָ Your enemies ’ō·yə·ḇe·ḵāהֲדֹ֣ם - hă·ḏōmלְרַגְלֶֽיךָ׃ Your footstool. lə·raḡ·le·ḵā1
2 מַטֵּֽה־ The rod maṭ·ṭêh-עֻזְּךָ֗ of Your strength ‘uz·zə·ḵāיִשְׁלַ֣ח shall send yiš·laḥיְ֭הוָה YHWH Yah·wehמִצִּיּ֑וֹן out of Zion miṣ·ṣî·yō·wnרְ֝דֵ֗ה Rule rə·ḏêhבְּקֶ֣רֶב in the midst bə·qe·reḇאֹיְבֶֽיךָ׃ of Your enemies. ’ō·yə·ḇe·ḵā
3 עַמְּךָ֣ Your people [shall be] ‘am·mə·ḵāנְדָבֹת֮ volunteers nə·ḏā·ḇōṯבְּי֪וֹם in the day bə·yō·wmחֵ֫ילֶ֥ךָ of Your power, ḥê·le·ḵāבְּֽהַדְרֵי־ in the beauties bə·haḏ·rê-קֹ֭דֶשׁ of holiness qō·ḏešמֵרֶ֣חֶם from the womb mê·re·ḥem

Psa 110:1 A Psalm of David. The LORD [Jehovah] said unto my Lord [the Messiah], "Sit Thou at My right hand, Until I set Thine enemies as a footstool for Thy feet."

Don't know if you are aware of this but the AHLB can be of great use.
 
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Johann said:
1 לְ·דָוִ֗ד le·da·Vid, of David מִ֫זְמ֥וֹר miz·Mor A Psalm נְאֻ֤ם ne·'Um said יְהוָ֨ה ׀ A·do·Nai The LORD לַֽ·אדֹנִ֗·י la·do·Ni, unto my Lord שֵׁ֥ב shev Sit לִֽ·ימִינִ֑·י li·mi·Ni; thou at my right hand עַד־ 'ad- Until אָשִׁ֥ית 'a·Shit until I make אֹ֝יְבֶ֗י·ךָ 'o·ye·Vei·cha, thine enemies הֲדֹ֣ם ha·Dom stool לְ·רַגְלֶֽי·ךָ׃ le·rag·Lei·cha. your feet


A Psalm miz·mō·wrנְאֻ֤ם said nə·’umיְהוָ֨ה׀ YHWH Yah·wehלַֽאדֹנִ֗י to my Lord, la·ḏō·nîשֵׁ֥ב Sit šêḇלִֽימִינִ֑י at My right hand, lî·mî·nîעַד־ Till ‘aḏ-אָשִׁ֥ית I make ’ā·šîṯאֹ֝יְבֶ֗יךָ Your enemies ’ō·yə·ḇe·ḵāהֲדֹ֣ם - hă·ḏōmלְרַגְלֶֽיךָ׃ Your footstool. lə·raḡ·le·ḵā1
2 מַטֵּֽה־ The rod maṭ·ṭêh-עֻזְּךָ֗ of Your strength ‘uz·zə·ḵāיִשְׁלַ֣ח shall send yiš·laḥיְ֭הוָה YHWH Yah·wehמִצִּיּ֑וֹן out of Zion miṣ·ṣî·yō·wnרְ֝דֵ֗ה Rule rə·ḏêhבְּקֶ֣רֶב in the midst bə·qe·reḇאֹיְבֶֽיךָ׃ of Your enemies. ’ō·yə·ḇe·ḵā
3 עַמְּךָ֣ Your people [shall be] ‘am·mə·ḵāנְדָבֹת֮ volunteers nə·ḏā·ḇōṯבְּי֪וֹם in the day bə·yō·wmחֵ֫ילֶ֥ךָ of Your power, ḥê·le·ḵāבְּֽהַדְרֵי־ in the beauties bə·haḏ·rê-קֹ֭דֶשׁ of holiness qō·ḏešמֵרֶ֣חֶם from the womb mê·re·ḥem

Psa 110:1 A Psalm of David. The LORD [Jehovah] said unto my Lord [the Messiah], "Sit Thou at My right hand, Until I set Thine enemies as a footstool for Thy feet."

Don't know if you are aware of this but the AHLB can be of great use.
Click to expand...
yes the Ancient Hebrew Lexicon of the Bible is helpful there.
Strong's #113: AHLB#1083-C (c)

1083) Nd% (Nd% DN) ac: Rule co: Ruler ab: Quarrel: The pictograph d is a picture of a door. The n is a picture of a seed representing the idea of life. Combined these pictures mean "the door of life". The ancient Hebrew concept of a "judge" is one who restores life. The goal of one that rules or judges is to bring a pleasant and righteous life to the people. This can also mean a deliverer as one whom restores life to his people. (eng: damn - with an added m; dean - as a judge).
The Lord Jesus is the DOOR, the "WAY" of LIFE.

101G.
 
Joe said:
The Hebrew understanding of chastisement does not mean penal punishment like us westerners have been led to think. It means instruction, training, or correction to perfect a person, to make them complete.
Click to expand...
BIBLE PROJECT’S TIM MACKIE BELIEVES PENAL SUBSTITUTIONARY ATONEMENT STEMS FROM PAGAN SACRIFICE ...

“Take heed unto thyself, and unto the doctrine; continue in them: for in doing this thou shalt both save thyself, and them that hear thee” (1 Timothy:4:16)


Concerns about Bible Project and its co-founder Tim Mackie continue to grow. The recent discovery of Mackie’s advocacy of anti-biblical meditative practices has been stunning. Bible Project has produced numerous videos on biblical subjects, some of them quite good. These can be found on YouTube and the videos are used by many churches, particularly in youth ministries.

Tim Mackie has many sermons on YouTube as well. It can be stated that Mackie and Bible Project have millions of followers. As a number of these videos attest, Mackie promotes some errant, even heretical, theology. While one of his teachings makes clear his contempt for the Penal Substitutionary Atonement (PSA), that same “sermon” reveals his view of the PSA as a belief based on ancient pagan sacrifices to the gods. Watch the following video from 34:42 to 38:08. Mackie has been explaining the Old Testament sacrificial system.

35:40 Oh yeah blood, animal dies, okay, we connect it to ancient pagan notions of like Zeus or Apollo* or Dionysus …

36:10 [These] gods hate you and they’re going to kill you or send plague on your flocks or something like that, and so what you need to do is kill this animal so that it can die instead of the gods killing you.

36:30 And once the god has their pound of flesh then they’ll leave you alone and be happy with you. And what we do is read that story onto the story of what’s happening here, and then we bring Jesus into it and what we end up with is a story that says, God’s perfect he’s holy and he’s perfect, you’re not so God has to kill you, he has to kill you. He needs His pound of flesh to, in the name of His justice, and so he’s gonna kill you because he’s angry at you.

37:05 But instead he’s gonna kill Jesus and he takes out his anger on Jesus and then he allows you after you die to go to the good place and not the bad place, you can sing forever the praises of the God who didn’t kill you. How you guys doing? Now some of you, I’m creating a caricature, but for some of us, you might think like, yeah, isn’t that the story of Christianity, isn’t that what Christians believe?

Such a twisted understanding of the Scriptures.

In his denial of the Penal Substitutionary Atonement, Tim Mackie is following in the footsteps of The Shack author William Paul Young, and many others.

As a Bible believer recently noted online: PSA is the one “theory of the atonement” that makes the others make sense. It is the key to all the others, which don’t work unless Jesus substituted for us in taking the Father’s wrath against sin on himself, and gave us his righteousness in place of our unrighteousness. Because the Lord loves us, Christ willingly took our place of punishment by dying on the cross. He received the wrath that we deserve.

But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. (Romans:5:8
)

So what was Mackie’s audience thinking as he linked Penal Substitutionary Atonement to “pagan notions of like Zeus or Apollo* or Dionysus”? Were there any questions or objections?

Here is another question: Is it perhaps time to ask Christians, particularly pastors and youth pastors, to examine some of Mackie’s troubling teachings?

thewordlikefire.wordpress.com

Bible Project’s Tim Mackie believes Penal Substitutionary Atonement stems from pagan sacrifice rituals?

Pay close attention to yourself and to your teaching; persevere in these things, for as you do this you will ensure salvation both&n…
thewordlikefire.wordpress.com thewordlikefire.wordpress.com
 
Johann said:
BIBLE PROJECT’S TIM MACKIE BELIEVES PENAL SUBSTITUTIONARY ATONEMENT STEMS FROM PAGAN SACRIFICE ...

“Take heed unto thyself, and unto the doctrine; continue in them: for in doing this thou shalt both save thyself, and them that hear thee” (1 Timothy:4:16)


Concerns about Bible Project and its co-founder Tim Mackie continue to grow. The recent discovery of Mackie’s advocacy of anti-biblical meditative practices has been stunning. Bible Project has produced numerous videos on biblical subjects, some of them quite good. These can be found on YouTube and the videos are used by many churches, particularly in youth ministries.

Tim Mackie has many sermons on YouTube as well. It can be stated that Mackie and Bible Project have millions of followers. As a number of these videos attest, Mackie promotes some errant, even heretical, theology. While one of his teachings makes clear his contempt for the Penal Substitutionary Atonement (PSA), that same “sermon” reveals his view of the PSA as a belief based on ancient pagan sacrifices to the gods. Watch the following video from 34:42 to 38:08. Mackie has been explaining the Old Testament sacrificial system.

35:40 Oh yeah blood, animal dies, okay, we connect it to ancient pagan notions of like Zeus or Apollo* or Dionysus …

36:10 [These] gods hate you and they’re going to kill you or send plague on your flocks or something like that, and so what you need to do is kill this animal so that it can die instead of the gods killing you.

36:30 And once the god has their pound of flesh then they’ll leave you alone and be happy with you. And what we do is read that story onto the story of what’s happening here, and then we bring Jesus into it and what we end up with is a story that says, God’s perfect he’s holy and he’s perfect, you’re not so God has to kill you, he has to kill you. He needs His pound of flesh to, in the name of His justice, and so he’s gonna kill you because he’s angry at you.

37:05 But instead he’s gonna kill Jesus and he takes out his anger on Jesus and then he allows you after you die to go to the good place and not the bad place, you can sing forever the praises of the God who didn’t kill you. How you guys doing? Now some of you, I’m creating a caricature, but for some of us, you might think like, yeah, isn’t that the story of Christianity, isn’t that what Christians believe?

Such a twisted understanding of the Scriptures.

In his denial of the Penal Substitutionary Atonement, Tim Mackie is following in the footsteps of The Shack author William Paul Young, and many others.

As a Bible believer recently noted online: PSA is the one “theory of the atonement” that makes the others make sense. It is the key to all the others, which don’t work unless Jesus substituted for us in taking the Father’s wrath against sin on himself, and gave us his righteousness in place of our unrighteousness. Because the Lord loves us, Christ willingly took our place of punishment by dying on the cross. He received the wrath that we deserve.

But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. (Romans:5:8
)

So what was Mackie’s audience thinking as he linked Penal Substitutionary Atonement to “pagan notions of like Zeus or Apollo* or Dionysus”? Were there any questions or objections?

Here is another question: Is it perhaps time to ask Christians, particularly pastors and youth pastors, to examine some of Mackie’s troubling teachings?

thewordlikefire.wordpress.com

Bible Project’s Tim Mackie believes Penal Substitutionary Atonement stems from pagan sacrifice rituals?

Pay close attention to yourself and to your teaching; persevere in these things, for as you do this you will ensure salvation both&n…
thewordlikefire.wordpress.com thewordlikefire.wordpress.com
Click to expand...
Smile--
 
Johann said:
As a Bible believer recently noted online: PSA is the one “theory of the atonement” that makes the others make sense. It is the key to all the others, which don’t work unless Jesus substituted for us in taking the Father’s wrath against sin on himself, and gave us his righteousness in place of our unrighteousness. Because the Lord loves us, Christ willingly took our place of punishment by dying on the cross. He received the wrath that we deserve.
Click to expand...

And to think people would fight against God's grace and holiness?

They are making themselves enemies of the Gospel.

It baffles the mind and saddens the heart.
 

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