Is persuasion even necessary in Calvinism ?

Do you obey Jesus like He commands ?

Next

The passive voice means the subject is being acted upon, so God by His imperative via the Gospel Truth is causing them to believe the Truth of their reconciliation, hence His command is backed up by His Power to produce the result of faith. Also the ones to whom this imperative is issued to are already regenerated new creatures in Christ vs 17. Has nothing to do with unregenerate spiritually dead sinners.

Ps 33:9

For he spake, and it was done; he commanded, and it stood fast.

What is an Imperative Sentence Passive Voice?​

By now you may have noticed that imperative sentence passive voice is a grammatical construction that combines the features of imperative sentences and passive voice. It specialises in giving instructions or commands more indirectly or formally.

So who was commanded?
 

What is an Imperative Sentence Passive Voice?​

By now you may have noticed that imperative sentence passive voice is a grammatical construction that combines the features of imperative sentences and passive voice. It specialises in giving instructions or commands more indirectly or formally.

So who was commanded?
The passive voice means the subject is being acted upon, so God by His imperative via the Gospel Truth is causing them to believe the Truth of their reconciliation, hence His command is backed up by His Power to produce the result of faith. Also the ones to whom this imperative is issued to are already regenerated new creatures in Christ vs 17. Has nothing to do with unregenerate spiritually dead sinners.

Ps 33:9

For he spake, and it was done; he commanded, and it stood fast.

,yet God entreats, exhorts and beseeches us to be reconciled to him in Jesus Christ, because in exhorting, entreating and beseeching us to believe, He puts forth his power and his own strength to enable/cause us to do so.
 
The passive voice means the subject is being acted upon, so God by His imperative via the Gospel Truth is causing them to believe the Truth of their reconciliation, hence His command is backed up by His Power to produce the result of faith. Also the ones to whom this imperative is issued to are already regenerated new creatures in Christ vs 17. Has nothing to do with unregenerate spiritually dead sinners.

Ps 33:9

For he spake, and it was done; he commanded, and it stood fast.

,yet God entreats, exhorts and beseeches us to be reconciled to him in Jesus Christ, because in exhorting, entreating and beseeching us to believe, He puts forth his power and his own strength to enable/cause us to do so.

What is an Imperative Sentence Passive Voice?​

By now you may have noticed that imperative sentence passive voice is a grammatical construction that combines the features of imperative sentences and passive voice. It specialises in giving instructions or commands more indirectly or formally.

So who was commanded?

There is nothing in the passage to suggest he effectually causes men to believe
 

What is an Imperative Sentence Passive Voice?​

By now you may have noticed that imperative sentence passive voice is a grammatical construction that combines the features of imperative sentences and passive voice. It specialises in giving instructions or commands more indirectly or formally.

So who was commanded?

There is nothing in the passage to suggest he effectually causes men to believe
The passive voice means the subject is being acted upon, so God by His imperative via the Gospel Truth is causing them to believe the Truth of their reconciliation, hence His command is backed up by His Power to produce the result of faith. Also the ones to whom this imperative is issued to are already regenerated new creatures in Christ vs 17. Has nothing to do with unregenerate spiritually dead sinners.

Ps 33:9

For he spake, and it was done; he commanded, and it stood fast.

,yet God entreats, exhorts and beseeches us to be reconciled to him in Jesus Christ, because in exhorting, entreating and beseeching us to believe, He puts forth his power and his own strength to enable/cause us to do so.
 

What is an Imperative Sentence Passive Voice?​

By now you may have noticed that imperative sentence passive voice is a grammatical construction that combines the features of imperative sentences and passive voice. It specialises in giving instructions or commands more indirectly or formally.

So who was commanded?

There is nothing in the passage to suggest he effectually causes men to believe
Amen as one must turn a blind eye to the biblical and grammatical truth and replace it with the philosophy of man.
 
Genesis 2:7 does not teach the PCE theology.

Genesis 2:7 says that God put the spirit inside the body.

When does this occur today?

I would wager that God puts it in there, no later then.... at the moment the baby's heart begins to beat in their mother's womb.
I suggest that the spirit is united with the body at conception....conception is the method that sinners are sown, not created, into this world, Matt 13:36-30.

Genesis 2:7 does not teach the PCE theology.

May I suggest that Gen 2:7 only does not teach PCE theology as you understand it??
 
The Cross of Christ produces persuasion, Faith since all them He died for shall be drawn to Him Jn 12:32

32 And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me.
That word draw ἕλκω means:

  1. o draw, drag off
  2. metaph., to draw by inward power, lead, impel ,Usage: I drag, draw, pull, persuade, unsheathe.

Now if we study the word Faith/Believe pistis we find its derived from peithō :

persuade

  1. to persuade, i.e. to induce one by words to believe

So the drawing not only of Jn 12 32 but also of Jn 6 44 is nothing short of being given the Gift of Faith in Christ, being induced to believe !
The word draw in Jn 6:44 and Jn 12:32 also means to be chosen, God chooses who comes to Chris or believes in Him. The word draw helkō is derived from the word haireō:
  1. to take for oneself, to prefer, choose
  2. to choose by vote, elect to office

Its the word Paul uses here for chosen to Salvation 2 Thess 2:13

13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen[drawn] you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:
 
The word draw in Jn 6:44 and Jn 12:32 also means to be chosen, God chooses who comes to Chris or believes in Him.

God offers the Blood of Jesus and the Death of Christ to "the world".

John 3:16

Jesus came to save the WORLD, (everyone) but, there is a condition.
And that condition is that each who Jesus came to Save, (The world) must give God THEIR Faith, in Christ..

A.) . "according as God hath dealt to EVERY person, the measure of faith"...

"Every person"
"Every person"
"Every person"
"Every person"
"Every person"
"Every person"

So, Lying-Deceived Calvinists, who try to ruin people's faith, and should not be allowed on "christian" forums... because that is their GOAL.... whose mind is owned by John the Devil Calvin,.... teach that this """""Measure of Faith"""" that "God gives to EVERYONE"..... is not the case.

But it is the case.. .its the reality, that EVERYONE, has Faith, but not ALL will give God THEIR Faith, in Christ.

God does not choose who believes.......God only provided WHOM to believe in, and then each person has "the measure of Faith"" that is God given to EVERYONE...........They decides to use their FREE WILL, to place THEIR Measure of FAITH, in Christ.... or not.

If they Do, then THEIR ""faith is counted by God as (Christ's) Righteousness"""".......and if they dont, then they remain a CHRIST REJECTOR, by CHOICE, that THEY MADE., and will die and go to Hell.
 
God offers the Blood of Jesus and the Death of Christ to "the world".

John 3:16

Jesus came to save the WORLD, (everyone) but, there is a condition.
And that condition is that each who Jesus came to Save, (The world) must give God THEIR Faith, in Christ..

A.) . "according as God hath dealt to EVERY person, the measure of faith"...


So, Lying-Deceived Calvinists, who try to ruin people's faith, and should not be allowed on "christian" forums... because that is their GOAL.... whose mind is owned by John the Devil Calvin,.... teach that this Measure of Faith that "God gives to EVERYONE"..... is not the case.

But it is the case.. .its the reality, that EVERYONE, has Faith, but not ALL will give God THEIR Faith, in Christ.

God does not choose who believes.......God only provided WHOM to believe in, and then each person has "the measure of Faith"" that is God given to EVERYONE...........They decides to use their FREE WILL, to place THEIR Measure of FAITH, in Christ.... or not.

If they Do, then THEIR ""faith is counted by God as (Christ's) Righteousness"""".......and if they dont, then they remain a CHRIST REJECTOR, by CHOICE, that THEY MADE., and will die and go to Hell.
You way off !
 
You way off !

Im not a lying and deceived Calvinist.

I dont use my time, my energy, and my life, to try to teach Calvin's "doctrine of Devils'.

God is not a Calvinist, so, I'll pass on it also.
You didnt.

YOU, do nothing else but teach this Heretic's theology...., because this DEVIL owns your mind, and you are fortunate that the """"Mods"""" on certain forums, allow you to teach this Satanic Cross Denying garbage theology.
And that is unfortunate for the rest of the members, and its most unfortunate for a new Christian, who might come to a forum, and read your "Calvinism" and become deceived.
So, in that Case, the MODS are to blame, as you are just a Tool of Calvinism, that they kept ALLOWING.
 
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The word draw in Jn 6:44 and Jn 12:32 also means to be chosen, God chooses who comes to Chris or believes in Him. The word draw helkō is derived from the word haireō:
  1. to take for oneself, to prefer, choose
  2. to choose by vote, elect to office

Its the word Paul uses here for chosen to Salvation 2 Thess 2:13

13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen[drawn] you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:
Sorry the word draw does not mean to chose



εἵλκυσεν. Hebrew equivalent: משׁך (1).
Verb Usage
1. to draw (from container)† — to bring, take, or pull out of a container or from under a cover. See also σπάω.
Jn 18:10 Σίμων οὖν Πέτρος ἔχων μάχαιραν εἵλκυσεν αὐτὴν
Jn 21:6 οὐκέτι αὐτὸ ἑλκύσαι
Jn 21:11 καὶ εἵλκυσεν τὸ δίκτυον εἰς τὴν γῆν μεστὸν ἰχθύων μεγάλων
2. to seize away ⇔ haul† — to lead someone away by force against their will; conceived of as drawing a heavy object out of something with great effort. See also ἕλκω.
Ac 16:19 εἵλκυσαν εἰς τὴν ἀγορὰν ἐπὶ τοὺς ἄρχοντας,
3. to attract powerfully ⇔ haul† — to attract powerfully, conceived of as drawing a heavy object out of something with great effort.
Jn 6:44 ὁ πατὴρ ὁ πέμψας με ἑλκύσῃ αὐτόν,
Jn 12:32 κἀγὼ ἐὰν ὑψωθῶ ἐκ τῆς γῆς, πάντας ἑλκύσω πρὸς ἐμαυτόν.
Rick Brannan, ed., Lexham Research Lexicon of the Greek New Testament (Lexham Research Lexicons; Bellingham, WA: Lexham Press, 2020).



ἑλκύω s. ἕλκω fut. and aor.


ἕλκω impf. εἷλκον; fut. ἑλκύσω; 1 aor. εἵλκυσα; for the forms w.-υ-s. Mlt.-H. 236; Bl-D. §101 p. 45 (Hom.+; inscr., pap., LXX, Joseph.) drag, draw.
1. trans.—a. lit. τὶ someth. a sword (Soph., Ant. 1233; Libanius, Or. 13 p. 73, 5 F. ξίφος) J 18:10; haul a net 21:6, 11; τινά (Diod. S. 34+35 fgm. 2, 14 τινὰ εὒς; Achilles Tat. 7, 15, 4 εἷλκόν με εἰς τὸ δεσμωτήριον; Jos., Bell. 1, 591 τινὰ εἰς.—Also Clearchus, fgm. 73; Diod. S. 14, 5, 3 ἕ. τινὰ ἐπὶ τὸν θάνατον) ἔξω τ. ἱεροῦ drag someone out of the temple Ac 21:30; εἰς τ. ἀγορὰν ἐπὶ τ. ἄρχοντας 16:19; εἰς κριτήρια hale into court Js 2:6 (Herodas 5, 59 ἕ. τινὰ εἰς τὰς ἀνάγκας=to punishment). οἱ ἕλκοντες ἡμᾶς LJ 2:3 is expanded by Dssm. w. εἰς τὰ κριτήρια; differently by others. Actually nothing need be supplied, since ἕ. τινά means pull or tug someone back and forth, mistreat someone (Libanius, Or. 58 p. 183, 20 F. ἕλκων κάπηλον; cf. Jos., Bell. 1, 338: εἷλκεν τοὺς ἔνδοθεν). Of stones ἐκ τοῦ βυθοῦ ἑλκομένους which were dragged out of the deep Hv 3, 2, 6; 3, 5, 2.
b. fig. of the pull on man’s inner life (Pla., Phaedr. 238A; Aelian, Nat. An. 4, 13; Porphyr., Marc. 16 μόνη ἡ ἀρετὴ τ. ψυχὴν ἄνω ἕλκει καὶ πρὸς τὸ συγγενές; Jer 38:3; SSol 1:4; 4 Macc 14:13; 15:11; Jos., Ant. 15, 27)draw, attract J 6:44. ἕλκ. πρός with acc. (Hierocles 25 p. 477 it is said of God ἐλκύσαι πρὸς τὴν ἀλήθειαν τοὺς ἀνθρώπους): πρὸς ἐμαυτόν 12:32.


William Arndt et al., A Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament and Other Early Christian Literature : A Translation and Adaption of the Fourth Revised and Augmented Edition of Walter Bauer’s Griechisch-Deutsches Worterbuch Zu Den Schrift En Des Neuen Testaments Und Der Ubrigen Urchristlichen Literatur (Chicago: University of Chicago Press, 1979), 251.
 
Im not a lying and deceived Calvinist.

I dont use my time, my energy, and my life, to try to teach Calvin's "doctrine of Devils'.

God is not a Calvinist, so, I'll pass on it also.
You didnt.

YOU, do nothing else but teach this Heretic's theology...., because this DEVIL owns your mind, and you are fortunate that the """"Mods"""" on certain forums, allow you to teach this Satanic Cross Denying garbage theology.
And that is unfortunate for the rest of the members, and its most unfortunate for a new Christian, who might come to a forum, and read your "Calvinism" and become deceived.
So, in that Case, the MODS are to blame, as you are just a Tool of Calvinism, that they kept ALLOWING.
Im just testifying the Gospel
 
@TomL



yes it does I just showed how
No actually you did not and ignored the lexical definitions

Sorry the word draw does not mean to chose



εἵλκυσεν. Hebrew equivalent: משׁך (1).
Verb Usage
1. to draw (from container)† — to bring, take, or pull out of a container or from under a cover. See also σπάω.
Jn 18:10 Σίμων οὖν Πέτρος ἔχων μάχαιραν εἵλκυσεν αὐτὴν
Jn 21:6 οὐκέτι αὐτὸ ἑλκύσαι
Jn 21:11 καὶ εἵλκυσεν τὸ δίκτυον εἰς τὴν γῆν μεστὸν ἰχθύων μεγάλων
2. to seize away ⇔ haul† — to lead someone away by force against their will; conceived of as drawing a heavy object out of something with great effort. See also ἕλκω.
Ac 16:19 εἵλκυσαν εἰς τὴν ἀγορὰν ἐπὶ τοὺς ἄρχοντας,
3. to attract powerfully ⇔ haul† — to attract powerfully, conceived of as drawing a heavy object out of something with great effort.
Jn 6:44 ὁ πατὴρ ὁ πέμψας με ἑλκύσῃ αὐτόν,
Jn 12:32 κἀγὼ ἐὰν ὑψωθῶ ἐκ τῆς γῆς, πάντας ἑλκύσω πρὸς ἐμαυτόν.
Rick Brannan, ed., Lexham Research Lexicon of the Greek New Testament (Lexham Research Lexicons; Bellingham, WA: Lexham Press, 2020).



ἑλκύω s. ἕλκω fut. and aor.


ἕλκω impf. εἷλκον; fut. ἑλκύσω; 1 aor. εἵλκυσα; for the forms w.-υ-s. Mlt.-H. 236; Bl-D. §101 p. 45 (Hom.+; inscr., pap., LXX, Joseph.) drag, draw.
1. trans.—a. lit. τὶ someth. a sword (Soph., Ant. 1233; Libanius, Or. 13 p. 73, 5 F. ξίφος) J 18:10; haul a net 21:6, 11; τινά (Diod. S. 34+35 fgm. 2, 14 τινὰ εὒς; Achilles Tat. 7, 15, 4 εἷλκόν με εἰς τὸ δεσμωτήριον; Jos., Bell. 1, 591 τινὰ εἰς.—Also Clearchus, fgm. 73; Diod. S. 14, 5, 3 ἕ. τινὰ ἐπὶ τὸν θάνατον) ἔξω τ. ἱεροῦ drag someone out of the temple Ac 21:30; εἰς τ. ἀγορὰν ἐπὶ τ. ἄρχοντας 16:19; εἰς κριτήρια hale into court Js 2:6 (Herodas 5, 59 ἕ. τινὰ εἰς τὰς ἀνάγκας=to punishment). οἱ ἕλκοντες ἡμᾶς LJ 2:3 is expanded by Dssm. w. εἰς τὰ κριτήρια; differently by others. Actually nothing need be supplied, since ἕ. τινά means pull or tug someone back and forth, mistreat someone (Libanius, Or. 58 p. 183, 20 F. ἕλκων κάπηλον; cf. Jos., Bell. 1, 338: εἷλκεν τοὺς ἔνδοθεν). Of stones ἐκ τοῦ βυθοῦ ἑλκομένους which were dragged out of the deep Hv 3, 2, 6; 3, 5, 2.
b. fig. of the pull on man’s inner life (Pla., Phaedr. 238A; Aelian, Nat. An. 4, 13; Porphyr., Marc. 16 μόνη ἡ ἀρετὴ τ. ψυχὴν ἄνω ἕλκει καὶ πρὸς τὸ συγγενές; Jer 38:3; SSol 1:4; 4 Macc 14:13; 15:11; Jos., Ant. 15, 27)draw, attract J 6:44. ἕλκ. πρός with acc. (Hierocles 25 p. 477 it is said of God ἐλκύσαι πρὸς τὴν ἀλήθειαν τοὺς ἀνθρώπους): πρὸς ἐμαυτόν 12:32.


William Arndt et al., A Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament and Other Early Christian Literature : A Translation and Adaption of the Fourth Revised and Augmented Edition of Walter Bauer’s Griechisch-Deutsches Worterbuch Zu Den Schrift En Des Neuen Testaments Und Der Ubrigen Urchristlichen Literatur (Chicago: University of Chicago Press, 1979), 251.
 
No actually you did not and ignored the lexical definitions

Sorry the word draw does not mean to chose



εἵλκυσεν. Hebrew equivalent: משׁך (1).
Verb Usage
1. to draw (from container)† — to bring, take, or pull out of a container or from under a cover. See also σπάω.
Jn 18:10 Σίμων οὖν Πέτρος ἔχων μάχαιραν εἵλκυσεν αὐτὴν
Jn 21:6 οὐκέτι αὐτὸ ἑλκύσαι
Jn 21:11 καὶ εἵλκυσεν τὸ δίκτυον εἰς τὴν γῆν μεστὸν ἰχθύων μεγάλων
2. to seize away ⇔ haul† — to lead someone away by force against their will; conceived of as drawing a heavy object out of something with great effort. See also ἕλκω.
Ac 16:19 εἵλκυσαν εἰς τὴν ἀγορὰν ἐπὶ τοὺς ἄρχοντας,
3. to attract powerfully ⇔ haul† — to attract powerfully, conceived of as drawing a heavy object out of something with great effort.
Jn 6:44 ὁ πατὴρ ὁ πέμψας με ἑλκύσῃ αὐτόν,
Jn 12:32 κἀγὼ ἐὰν ὑψωθῶ ἐκ τῆς γῆς, πάντας ἑλκύσω πρὸς ἐμαυτόν.
Rick Brannan, ed., Lexham Research Lexicon of the Greek New Testament (Lexham Research Lexicons; Bellingham, WA: Lexham Press, 2020).



ἑλκύω s. ἕλκω fut. and aor.


ἕλκω impf. εἷλκον; fut. ἑλκύσω; 1 aor. εἵλκυσα; for the forms w.-υ-s. Mlt.-H. 236; Bl-D. §101 p. 45 (Hom.+; inscr., pap., LXX, Joseph.) drag, draw.
1. trans.—a. lit. τὶ someth. a sword (Soph., Ant. 1233; Libanius, Or. 13 p. 73, 5 F. ξίφος) J 18:10; haul a net 21:6, 11; τινά (Diod. S. 34+35 fgm. 2, 14 τινὰ εὒς; Achilles Tat. 7, 15, 4 εἷλκόν με εἰς τὸ δεσμωτήριον; Jos., Bell. 1, 591 τινὰ εἰς.—Also Clearchus, fgm. 73; Diod. S. 14, 5, 3 ἕ. τινὰ ἐπὶ τὸν θάνατον) ἔξω τ. ἱεροῦ drag someone out of the temple Ac 21:30; εἰς τ. ἀγορὰν ἐπὶ τ. ἄρχοντας 16:19; εἰς κριτήρια hale into court Js 2:6 (Herodas 5, 59 ἕ. τινὰ εἰς τὰς ἀνάγκας=to punishment). οἱ ἕλκοντες ἡμᾶς LJ 2:3 is expanded by Dssm. w. εἰς τὰ κριτήρια; differently by others. Actually nothing need be supplied, since ἕ. τινά means pull or tug someone back and forth, mistreat someone (Libanius, Or. 58 p. 183, 20 F. ἕλκων κάπηλον; cf. Jos., Bell. 1, 338: εἷλκεν τοὺς ἔνδοθεν). Of stones ἐκ τοῦ βυθοῦ ἑλκομένους which were dragged out of the deep Hv 3, 2, 6; 3, 5, 2.
b. fig. of the pull on man’s inner life (Pla., Phaedr. 238A; Aelian, Nat. An. 4, 13; Porphyr., Marc. 16 μόνη ἡ ἀρετὴ τ. ψυχὴν ἄνω ἕλκει καὶ πρὸς τὸ συγγενές; Jer 38:3; SSol 1:4; 4 Macc 14:13; 15:11; Jos., Ant. 15, 27)draw, attract J 6:44. ἕλκ. πρός with acc. (Hierocles 25 p. 477 it is said of God ἐλκύσαι πρὸς τὴν ἀλήθειαν τοὺς ἀνθρώπους): πρὸς ἐμαυτόν 12:32.


William Arndt et al., A Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament and Other Early Christian Literature : A Translation and Adaption of the Fourth Revised and Augmented Edition of Walter Bauer’s Griechisch-Deutsches Worterbuch Zu Den Schrift En Des Neuen Testaments Und Der Ubrigen Urchristlichen Literatur (Chicago: University of Chicago Press, 1979), 251.
yes it does I just showed how ! Again, its simple word study, the word draw in the greek helkō:
is an derivative of the word haireō:

  1. to take for oneself, to prefer, choose
  2. to choose by vote, elect to office

This word is used to choose to salvation 2 Thess 2:13

But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:

Thats who God chooses to believe in Christ, He draws them to Christ

Ps 65:4

4 Blessed is the man whom thou choosest, and causest to approach unto thee, that he may dwell in thy courts: we shall be satisfied with the goodness of thy house, even of thy holy temple.

Causeth to approach, thats drawing, and its for thm God chooses
 
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