Is persuasion even necessary in Calvinism ?

[Rockson]

2 Corinthians 5:20 (UASV) — 20 Therefore, we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God were making an appeal through us; we beg you on behalf of Christ, be reconciled to God.

Let's look at other things in the verse here too. He says as ambassadors for Christ the way and manner by which we present the request you can consider it's the way and manner that Christ himself God is doing so. So he uses terms like I beg you, (other translations) we implore you or we plead with you!

Such a way of phrasing something would never be necessary if there was not chance of the other NOT doing so. You would only say I beg, or I implore or plead with you if indeed it was true and is.....that man can choose to accept salvation or not. Or to say it another way if irresistible grace was a true thing.....no need again to plead the sinner will do anything.

 

[TomL]

Let's look at other things in the verse here too. He says as ambassadors for Christ the way and manner by which we present the request you can consider it's the way and manner that Christ himself God is doing so. So he uses terms like I beg you, (other translations) we implore you or we plead with you!

Such a way of phrasing something would never be necessary if there was not chance of the other NOT doing so. You would only say I beg, or I implore or plead with you if indeed it was true and is.....that man can choose to accept salvation or not. Or to say it another way if irresistible grace was a true thing.....no need again to plead the sinner will do anything.

Yes It would be absurd. Calvinism however ignores the inconvenient.

 

[Rockson]

Yes It would be absurd. Calvinism however ignores the inconvenient.

There doctrine is a continual roll out that Jesus is NEVER sincere in any request that he makes. When he says I beg and implore you to be saved not really a thing God had to say that way according to their doctrine. Surely he must be just playing around with words in 2 Cor 5:20 just for fun. He certainly could not have been serious according to them.

 

[TomL]

There doctrine is a continual roll out that Jesus is NEVER sincere in any request that he makes. When he says I beg and implore you to be saved not really a thing God had to say that way according to their doctrine. Surely he must be just playing around with words in 2 Cor 5:20 just for fun. He certainly could not have been serious according to them.

Calvinism misrepresents God and therefore should be rejected

 

[brightfame52]

Doug corrected noted they were to submit to the reconciliation of God

2 Corinthians 5:20 (UASV) — 20 Therefore, we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God were making an appeal through us; we beg you on behalf of Christ, be reconciled to God.

Reconciliation was made on their behalf. They had no part in making it. They did have as part in accepting it

The passive voice means the subject is being acted upon, so God by His imperative via the Gospel Truth is causing them to believe the Truth of their reconciliation, hence His command is backed up by His Power to produce the result of faith. Also the ones to whom this imperative is issued to are already regenerated new creatures in Christ vs 17. Has nothing to do with unregenerate spiritually dead sinners.

 

[TomL]

The passive voice means the subject is being acted upon, so God by His imperative via the Gospel Truth is causing them to believe the Truth of their reconciliation, hence His command is backed up by His Power to produce the result of faith. Also the ones to whom this imperative is issued to are already regenerated new creatures in Christ vs 17. Has nothing to do with unregenerate spiritually dead sinners.

Doug corrected noted they were to submit to the reconciliation of God

2 Corinthians 5:20 (UASV) — 20 Therefore, we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God were making an appeal through us; we beg you on behalf of Christ, be reconciled to God.

Reconciliation was made on their behalf. They had no part in making it. They did have as part in accepting it

 

[TibiasDad]

The passive voice means the subject is being acted upon, so God by His imperative via the Gospel Truth is causing them to believe the Truth of their reconciliation, hence His command is backed up by His Power to produce the result of faith. Also the ones to whom this imperative is issued to are already regenerated new creatures in Christ vs 17. Has nothing to do with unregenerate spiritually dead sinners.

That is not what the imperative mood indicates! It is not speaking to God’s imperative to act, but of our need to act to allow God to act.

The imperative of command means we are required as a prerequisite action to accomplish something so that something else can be done to us, or acted upon us by another.

An example would be that in order for the doctor to operate on me, I must first go to the hospital and sign a consent form that allows him to operate.

God has required us to believe and submit to him before he will act upon us.

Doug

 

[brightfame52]

Doug corrected noted they were to submit to the reconciliation of God

2 Corinthians 5:20 (UASV) — 20 Therefore, we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God were making an appeal through us; we beg you on behalf of Christ, be reconciled to God.

Reconciliation was made on their behalf. They had no part in making it. They did have as part in accepting it

The passive voice means the subject is being acted upon, so God by His imperative via the Gospel Truth is causing them to believe the Truth of their reconciliation, hence His command is backed up by His Power to produce the result of faith. Also the ones to whom this imperative is issued to are already regenerated new creatures in Christ vs 17. Has nothing to do with unregenerate spiritually dead sinners.

 

[brightfame52]

That is not what the imperative mood indicates! It is not speaking to God’s imperative to act, but of our need to act to allow God to act.

The imperative of command means we are required as a prerequisite action to accomplish something so that something else can be done to us, or acted upon us by another.

An example would be that in order for the doctor to operate on me, I must first go to the hospital and sign a consent form that allows him to operate.

God has required us to believe and submit to him before he will act upon us.

Doug

The passive voice means the subject is being acted upon, so God by His imperative via the Gospel Truth is causing them to believe the Truth of their reconciliation, hence His command is backed up by His Power to produce the result of faith. Also the ones to whom this imperative is issued to are already regenerated new creatures in Christ vs 17. Has nothing to do with unregenerate spiritually dead sinners.

Gods imperative command shines into the heart causing Faith 2 Cor 4:6

6 For God, who commanded the light to shine out of darkness, hath shined in our hearts, to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ.

 

[TomL]

The passive voice means the subject is being acted upon, so God by His imperative via the Gospel Truth is causing them to believe the Truth of their reconciliation, hence His command is backed up by His Power to produce the result of faith. Also the ones to whom this imperative is issued to are already regenerated new creatures in Christ vs 17. Has nothing to do with unregenerate spiritually dead sinners.

Doug corrected noted they were to submit to the reconciliation of God

2 Corinthians 5:20 (UASV) — 20 Therefore, we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God were making an appeal through us; we beg you on behalf of Christ, be reconciled to God.

Reconciliation was made on their behalf. They had no part in making it. They did have as part in accepting it

 

[civic]

Let's look at other things in the verse here too. He says as ambassadors for Christ the way and manner by which we present the request you can consider it's the way and manner that Christ himself God is doing so. So he uses terms like I beg you, (other translations) we implore you or we plead with you!

Such a way of phrasing something would never be necessary if there was not chance of the other NOT doing so. You would only say I beg, or I implore or plead with you if indeed it was true and is.....that man can choose to accept salvation or not. Or to say it another way if irresistible grace was a true thing.....no need again to plead the sinner will do anything.

Yes it’s just another oxymoron in their theology

 

[brightfame52]

Doug corrected noted they were to submit to the reconciliation of God

2 Corinthians 5:20 (UASV) — 20 Therefore, we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God were making an appeal through us; we beg you on behalf of Christ, be reconciled to God.

Reconciliation was made on their behalf. They had no part in making it. They did have as part in accepting it

The passive voice means the subject is being acted upon, so God by His imperative via the Gospel Truth is causing them to believe the Truth of their reconciliation, hence His command is backed up by His Power to produce the result of faith. Also the ones to whom this imperative is issued to are already regenerated new creatures in Christ vs 17. Has nothing to do with unregenerate spiritually dead sinners.

 

[TibiasDad]

The passive voice means the subject is being acted upon, so God by His imperative via the Gospel Truth is causing them to believe the Truth of their reconciliation, hence His command is backed up by His Power to produce the result of faith. Also the ones to whom this imperative is issued to are already regenerated new creatures in Christ vs 17. Has nothing to do with unregenerate spiritually dead sinners.

Gods imperative command shines into the heart causing Faith 2 Cor 4:6

6 For God, who commanded the light to shine out of darkness, hath shined in our hearts, to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ.

Your continuous canned responses are contrary to a proper understanding of Greek and do nothing to advance the conversation between us.


Doug

 

[brightfame52]

Your continuous canned responses are contrary to a proper understanding of Greek and do nothing to advance the conversation between us.


Doug

The passive voice means the subject is being acted upon, so God by His imperative via the Gospel Truth is causing them to believe the Truth

of their reconciliation, hence His command is backed up by His Power to produce the result of faith. Also the ones to whom this imperative

is issued to are already regenerated new creatures in Christ vs 17. Has nothing to do with unregenerate spiritually dead sinners.

Gods imperative command shines into the heart causing Faith 2 Cor 4:6

6 For God, who commanded the light to shine out of darkness, hath shined in our hearts, to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ.

 

[TomL]

The passive voice means the subject is being acted upon, so God by His imperative via the Gospel Truth is causing them to believe the Truth of their reconciliation, hence His command is backed up by His Power to produce the result of faith. Also the ones to whom this imperative is issued to are already regenerated new creatures in Christ vs 17. Has nothing to do with unregenerate spiritually dead sinners.

Doug correctly noted they were to submit to the reconciliation of God

2 Corinthians 5:20 (UASV) — 20 Therefore, we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God were making an appeal through us; we beg you on behalf of Christ, be reconciled to God.

Reconciliation was made on their behalf. They had no part in making it. They did have as part in accepting it

 

[brightfame52]

Doug correctly noted they were to submit to the reconciliation of God

2 Corinthians 5:20 (UASV) — 20 Therefore, we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God were making an appeal through us; we beg you on behalf of Christ, be reconciled to God.

Reconciliation was made on their behalf. They had no part in making it. They did have as part in accepting it

The passive voice means the subject is being acted upon, so God by His imperative via the Gospel Truth is causing them to believe the Truth of their reconciliation, hence His command is backed up by His Power to produce the result of faith. Also the ones to whom this imperative is issued to are already regenerated new creatures in Christ vs 17. Has nothing to do with unregenerate spiritually dead sinners.

 

[TomL]

The passive voice means the subject is being acted upon, so God by His imperative via the Gospel Truth is causing them to believe the Truth of their reconciliation, hence His command is backed up by His Power to produce the result of faith. Also the ones to whom this imperative is issued to are already regenerated new creatures in Christ vs 17. Has nothing to do with unregenerate spiritually dead sinners.

In reconciliation yes in accepting it no

Doug correctly noted they were to submit to the reconciliation of God

2 Corinthians 5:20 (UASV) — 20 Therefore, we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God were making an appeal through us; we beg you on behalf of Christ, be reconciled to God.

Reconciliation was made on their behalf. They had no part in making it. They did have as part in accepting it

 

[brightfame52]

In reconciliation yes in accepting it no

Doug correctly noted they were to submit to the reconciliation of God

2 Corinthians 5:20 (UASV) — 20 Therefore, we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God were making an appeal through us; we beg you on behalf of Christ, be reconciled to God.

Reconciliation was made on their behalf. They had no part in making it. They did have as part in accepting it

The passive voice means the subject is being acted upon, so God by His imperative via the Gospel Truth is causing them to believe the Truth of their reconciliation, hence His command is backed up by His Power to produce the result of faith. Also the ones to whom this imperative is issued to are already regenerated new creatures in Christ vs 17. Has nothing to do with unregenerate spiritually dead sinners.

 

[TomL]

The passive voice means the subject is being acted upon, so God by His imperative via the Gospel Truth is causing them to believe the Truth of their reconciliation, hence His command is backed up by His Power to produce the result of faith. Also the ones to whom this imperative is issued to are already regenerated new creatures in Christ vs 17. Has nothing to do with unregenerate spiritually dead sinners.

In reconciliation yes in accepting it no

Doug correctly noted they were to submit to the reconciliation of God

2 Corinthians 5:20 (UASV) — 20 Therefore, we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God were making an appeal through us; we beg you on behalf of Christ, be reconciled to God.

Reconciliation was made on their behalf. They had no part in making it. They did have as part in accepting it

 

[brightfame52]

In reconciliation yes in accepting it no

Doug correctly noted they were to submit to the reconciliation of God

2 Corinthians 5:20 (UASV) — 20 Therefore, we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God were making an appeal through us; we beg you on behalf of Christ, be reconciled to God.

Reconciliation was made on their behalf. They had no part in making it. They did have as part in accepting it

The passive voice means the subject is being acted upon, so God by His imperative via the Gospel Truth is causing them to believe the Truth of their reconciliation, hence His command is backed up by His Power to produce the result of faith. Also the ones to whom this imperative is issued to are already regenerated new creatures in Christ vs 17. Has nothing to do with unregenerate spiritually dead sinners.