Irresistible Grace

[TomL]

I already have. You advocate that unsaved jews with a zeal of God are believers in God Rom 10:

2 For I bear them record that they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge.

3 For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.

I stated Paul had a belief in God the Father

You have not addressed it.

And even these

Romans 10:1–2 (NASB 95) — 1 Brethren, my heart’s desire and my prayer to God for them is for their salvation. 2 For I testify about them that they have a zeal for God, but not in accordance with knowledge.

 

[brightfame52]

Grace is a spiritual work of God, the very power of God, applied to His chosen to make that which was dead alive forevermore Eph 3:7

Whereof I was made a minister, according to the gift of the grace of God given unto me by the effectual working of his power.

 

[TomL]

Grace is a spiritual work of God, the very power of God, applied to His chosen to make that which was dead alive forevermore Eph 3:7

Whereof I was made a minister, according to the gift of the grace of God given unto me by the effectual working of his power.

One is made alive through faith

Eph 2:8–9 For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; not as a result of works, so that no one may boast.
John 5:24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.
John 11:25–26 Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life; he who believes in Me will live even if he dies, and everyone who lives and believes in Me will never die. Do you believe this?”
Gal 2:20 I have been crucified with Christ; and it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me; and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself up for me.
1 John 5:11–12 And the testimony is this, that God has given us eternal life, and this life is in His Son. He who has the Son has the life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have the life.
John 3:16 “For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life.

Rom 5:1 Therefore, having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ,

 

[brightfame52]

One is made alive through faith

False theyre made alive by grace Eph 2:5

Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened[made alive] us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved)

Sovereign Grace finds the elect dead in sin, in active disobedience to God, and makes them alive. Paul is an example.

When Jesus made him alive by grace, he was in active disobedience and enmity against God. Paul as saul was in active unbelief when saved by grace.

 

[TomL]

False theyre made alive by grace Eph 2:5

Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened[made alive] us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved)

Sovereign Grace finds the elect dead in sin, in active disobedience to God, and makes them alive. Paul is an example.

When Jesus made him alive by grace, he was in active disobedience and enmity against God. Paul as saul was in active unbelief when saved by grace.

You are in denial of scripture

One is made alive through faith

Eph 2:8–9 For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; not as a result of works, so that no one may boast.
John 5:24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.
John 11:25–26 Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life; he who believes in Me will live even if he dies, and everyone who lives and believes in Me will never die. Do you believe this?”
Gal 2:20 I have been crucified with Christ; and it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me; and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself up for me.
1 John 5:11–12 And the testimony is this, that God has given us eternal life, and this life is in His Son. He who has the Son has the life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have the life.
John 3:16 “For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life.
Rom 5:1 Therefore, having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ,

Will you ever become a man who believes scripture?

 

[brightfame52]

You are in denial of scripture

No sir, you are

 

[civic]

False theyre made alive by grace Eph 2:5

Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened[made alive] us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved)

Sovereign Grace finds the elect dead in sin, in active disobedience to God, and makes them alive. Paul is an example.

When Jesus made him alive by grace, he was in active disobedience and enmity against God. Paul as saul was in active unbelief when saved by grace.

Nope by faith via the gospel

 

[brightfame52]

Nope by faith via the gospel

Thats not even heard of. Grace finds men dead in sin

 

[TomL]

No sir, you are

Once again

You are in denial of scripture

One is made alive through faith

Eph 2:8–9 For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; not as a result of works, so that no one may boast.
John 5:24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.
John 11:25–26 Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life; he who believes in Me will live even if he dies, and everyone who lives and believes in Me will never die. Do you believe this?”
Gal 2:20 I have been crucified with Christ; and it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me; and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself up for me.
1 John 5:11–12 And the testimony is this, that God has given us eternal life, and this life is in His Son. He who has the Son has the life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have the life.
John 3:16 “For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life.
Rom 5:1 Therefore, having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ,
Acts 16:31 They said, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household.”
Rom 10:9–10 that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved; for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation.
John 1:12 But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, even to those who believe in His name,Will you ever become a man who believes the whole of scripture?
Gal 3:26 For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus.
Rom 1:16–17 For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes, to the Jew first and also to the Greek. For in it the righteousness of God is revealed from faith to faith; as it is written, “But the righteous man shall live by faith.”

Justification, regeneration, life, and salvation are all through faith.

 

[brightfame52]

Once again

You are in denial of scripture

Nope you are.

 

[civic]

Once again

You are in denial of scripture

One is made alive through faith

Eph 2:8–9 For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; not as a result of works, so that no one may boast.
John 5:24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.
John 11:25–26 Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life; he who believes in Me will live even if he dies, and everyone who lives and believes in Me will never die. Do you believe this?”
Gal 2:20 I have been crucified with Christ; and it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me; and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself up for me.
1 John 5:11–12 And the testimony is this, that God has given us eternal life, and this life is in His Son. He who has the Son has the life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have the life.
John 3:16 “For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life.
Rom 5:1 Therefore, having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ,
Acts 16:31 They said, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household.”
Rom 10:9–10 that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved; for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation.
John 1:12 But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, even to those who believe in His name,Will you ever become a man who believes the whole of scripture?
Gal 3:26 For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus.
Rom 1:16–17 For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes, to the Jew first and also to the Greek. For in it the righteousness of God is revealed from faith to faith; as it is written, “But the righteous man shall live by faith.”

Justification, regeneration, life, and salvation are all through faith.

yes those passages go against the false premise of his doctrines.

 

[brightfame52]

yes those passages go against the false premise of his doctrines.

One is made alive by grace. Grace finds us dead in sin and disobedience Eph 2:5

Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved)
dead here means:

1. spiritually dead
   
   1. destitute of a life that recognises and is devoted to God, because given up to trespasses and sins
   2. inactive as respects doing right
2. destitute of force or power, inactive, inoperative

Rom 5:6

For when we were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly

without spiritual strentgh, do inactive.

 

[civic]

One is made alive by grace. Grace finds us dead in sin and disobedience Eph 2:5

Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved)
dead here means:

1. spiritually dead
   1. destitute of a life that recognises and is devoted to God, because given up to trespasses and sins
   2. inactive as respects doing right
2. destitute of force or power, inactive, inoperative

Rom 5:6

For when we were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly

without spiritual strentgh, do inactive.

Of course grace precedes salvation.

But faith/belief is mans responsibility. Jesus and the Apostles are in one accord teaching the same thing on this topic.

 

[TomL]

yes those passages go against the false premise of his doctrines.

And yet he ignores the many contradictions to his theology.

 

[TomL]

Nope you are.

You fail to address many verses


One is made alive through faith

Eph 2:8–9 For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; not as a result of works, so that no one may boast.
John 5:24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.
John 11:25–26 Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life; he who believes in Me will live even if he dies, and everyone who lives and believes in Me will never die. Do you believe this?”
Gal 2:20 I have been crucified with Christ; and it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me; and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself up for me.
1 John 5:11–12 And the testimony is this, that God has given us eternal life, and this life is in His Son. He who has the Son has the life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have the life.
John 3:16 “For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life.
Rom 5:1 Therefore, having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ,
Acts 16:31 They said, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household.”
Rom 10:9–10 that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved; for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation.
John 1:12 But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, even to those who believe in His name,Will you ever become a man who believes the whole of scripture?
Gal 3:26 For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus.
Rom 1:16–17 For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes, to the Jew first and also to the Greek. For in it the righteousness of God is revealed from faith to faith; as it is written, “But the righteous man shall live by faith.”

Justification, regeneration, life, and salvation are all through faith.

 

[civic]

You fail to address many verses


One is made alive through faith

Eph 2:8–9 For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; not as a result of works, so that no one may boast.
John 5:24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.
John 11:25–26 Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life; he who believes in Me will live even if he dies, and everyone who lives and believes in Me will never die. Do you believe this?”
Gal 2:20 I have been crucified with Christ; and it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me; and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself up for me.
1 John 5:11–12 And the testimony is this, that God has given us eternal life, and this life is in His Son. He who has the Son has the life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have the life.
John 3:16 “For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life.
Rom 5:1 Therefore, having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ,
Acts 16:31 They said, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household.”
Rom 10:9–10 that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved; for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation.
John 1:12 But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, even to those who believe in His name,Will you ever become a man who believes the whole of scripture?
Gal 3:26 For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus.
Rom 1:16–17 For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes, to the Jew first and also to the Greek. For in it the righteousness of God is revealed from faith to faith; as it is written, “But the righteous man shall live by faith.”

Justification, regeneration, life, and salvation are all through faith.

yes indeed and as we know the biblical narrative its up to man to believe, exercise personal faith in God.

 

[brightfame52]

But faith/belief is mans responsibility.

No its not. Faith is by Grace Rom 4:16

16 Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all,

Man has no responsibility in his salvation, he is dead

 

[brightfame52]

One is made alive through faith

No one is made alive by God, by Grace Eph 2:5

5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved)

even when we were [spiritually] dead and separated from Him because of our sins, He made us [spiritually] alive together with Christ (for by His grace—His undeserved favor and mercy—you have been saved from God’s judgment).AMP

 

[civic]

No its not. Faith is by Grace Rom 4:16

16 Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all,

Man has no responsibility in his salvation, he is dead

I never said grace does not precede faith or salvation- it does but its still mans faith.

Jesus also taught that a persons faith comes before they are healed or saved. The saving/healing doesn't come before faith.

You say just the opposite of Jesus below.

Here is how you would rewrite Jesus words below and add to scripture things that were never said nor implied.

In (Parenthesis) below is your false assertion that God gives faith. Jesus said it was THEIR faith that saved them, not the faith He or the Father gave them.

Luke 7:50
And he said to the woman, Thy faith ( I have given you )hath saved thee; go in peace.

Luke 8:48
"Daughter," said Jesus, "your faith ( I have given you )has healed you. Go in peace."

Luke 17:19
Then Jesus said to him, "Rise and go; your faith( I have given you ) has made you well!"

Luke 18:42
"Receive your sight!" Jesus replied. "Your faith( I have give you ) has healed you."

Matthew 8:10
When Jesus heard this, He marveled and said to those following Him, "Truly I tell you, I have not found anyone in Israel with such great faith.

Matthew 8:13
Then Jesus said to the centurion, "Go! As you have believed, so will it be done for you." And his servant was healed at that very hour.

Matthew 9:2
Just then some men brought to Him a paralytic lying on a mat. When Jesus saw their faith, He said to the paralytic, "Take courage, son; your sins are forgiven.

Matthew 9:22
Jesus turned and saw her. "Take courage, daughter," He said, "your faith has healed you." And the woman was cured from that very hour.

Matthew 9:29
Then He touched their eyes and said, "According to your faith will it be done to you."

Matthew 15:28
"O woman," Jesus answered, "your faith is great! Let it be done for you as you desire." And her daughter was healed from that very hour.

Mark 5:34
"Daughter," said Jesus, "your faith has healed you. Go in peace and be free of your affliction."

Mark 10:52
"Go," said Jesus, "your faith has healed you." And immediately he received his sight and followed Jesus along the road.

John 4:53
So the father knew that it was at the same hour, in the which Jesus said unto him, Thy son liveth: and himself believed, and his whole house.

hope this helps !!!

 

[brightfame52]

I never said grace does not precede faith

Im saying faith is a byproduct of Grace