Irresistible Grace

[TomL]

Well it reigns so they will receive it, they have no choice, its sovereignly administered by God

It reigns when received

As stated Only if one receives it

Romans 5:17 (NASB95) — 17 For if by the transgression of the one, death reigned through the one, much more those who receive the abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness will reign in life through the One, Jesus Christ.

As usual you ignore context

 

[brightfame52]

@TomL

Not always received as the scriptures you ignored showed

Yes saving Grace through the Person and work of Christ is always received, its reigns through righteousness Rom 5:21

21 That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord.

No scripture says Grace doesnt reign through righteousness unto salvation or eternal life by Jesus Christ.

If you have scripture you feel contradicts this, then please exegete them to show how so

 

[brightfame52]

It reigns when received

As stated Only if one receives it

Romans 5:17 (NASB95) — 17 For if by the transgression of the one, death reigned through the one, much more those who receive the abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness will reign in life through the One, Jesus Christ.

As usual you ignore context

All the elect will receive it, Rom 5:17 is about the elect, and they receive it passively by imputation and then impartation, its received because given as gift, its abundance of Grace given

 

[GodsGrace]

All the elect will receive it, Rom 5:17 is about the elect, and they receive it passively by imputation and then impartation, its received because given as gift, its abundance of Grace given

Grace can be resisted.
God forces no one to love Him...
Love must be free or it is NOT love.

We must submit ourselves:
James 4:7
7Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you.


Stephen, who died for his faith...taught that the Holy Spirit could be resisted:
Acts 7:51
51“You stiff-necked people, uncircumcised in heart and ears, you always resist the Holy Spirit. As your fathers did, so do you.


Jesus taught us that our flesh is weak and can resist the Holy Spirit :
Matthew 26:41
41Watch and pray that you may not enter into temptation. The spirit indeed is willing, but the flesh is weak.”


We require help when being tempted, which means we CAN be tempted into sin:
Hebrews 2:18
18For because he himself has suffered when tempted, He is able to help those who are being tempted.


We are not always willing...and we can resist the Holy §Spirit
Isaiah 30:15
15For thus said the Lord God, the Holy One of Israel, “In returning and rest you shall be saved; in quietness and in trust shall be your strength.” But you were unwilling,


Zechariah 7:11-12
But they refused to pay attention and turned a stubborn shoulder and stopped their ears that they might not hear. They made their hearts diamond-hard lest they should hear the law and the words that the Lord of hosts had sent by his Spirit through the former prophets. Therefore great anger came from the Lord of hosts.


And let's not forget Jesus' lament:
Matthew 23:37
37 "Jerusalem, Jerusalem, who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her! How often I wanted to gather your children together, the way a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, and you were unwilling *.

 

[Selah]

It reigns when received

As stated Only if one receives it

Romans 5:17 (NASB95) — 17 For if by the transgression of the one, death reigned through the one, much more those who receive the abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness will reign in life through the One, Jesus Christ.

As usual you ignore context

Here’s how I understand it. Yes, the elect, those chosen before the foundation of the world (because they loved the LORD), will always receive the abundance of grace and the gift of righteousness. But God wants all the world (not just the ones chosen) to be saved; sadly many will not heed the call (the Gospel) when they hear it.

 

[GodsGrace]

Grace which is Sovereign is received, its Sovereignly given, just as death is sovereignly received when it reigns through sin. Do you have a choice in death ?

Actually BF,,,,man DID have a choice re death.
He decided to disobey God and obey satan instsead.

We no longer have a choice and must be born again in order to restore our relationship with God.

This is accomplished by believing in Him...our Lord and Savior,


John 3:16
“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.


Romans 10:9
Because, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.


John 8:24
"I told you that you would die in your sins, for unless you believe that I am he you will die in your sins.”
John 20:31


But these are written so that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name.

 

[brightfame52]

Here’s how I understand it. Yes, the elect, those chosen before the foundation of the world (because they loved the LORD), will always receive the abundance of grace and the gift of righteousness. But God wants all the world (not just the ones chosen) to be saved; sadly many will not heed the call (the Gospel) when they hear it.

If people dont believe the Gospel when its proclaimed to them, its because they are not Christs Sheep He died for Jn 10:26

26 ;But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.

27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
In fact they were appointed to disobey the word by the decree of God 1 Pet 2:7-8

7 Unto you therefore which believe he is precious: but unto them which be disobedient, the stone which the builders disallowed, the same is made the head of the corner,

8 And a stone of stumbling, and a rock of offence, even to them which stumble at the word, being disobedient: whereunto also they were appointed.

 

[TomL]

Here’s how I understand it. Yes, the elect, those chosen before the foundation of the world (because they loved the LORD), will always receive the abundance of grace and the gift of righteousness. But God wants all the world (not just the ones chosen) to be saved; sadly many will not heed the call (the Gospel) when they hear it.

Yes some do understand the context in that manner

 

[TomL]

All the elect will receive it, Rom 5:17 is about the elect, and they receive it passively by imputation and then impartation, its received because given as gift, its abundance of Grace given

There are no unconditionally elect. Your religion made it up.

Nor is righteousness imputed apart from faith.

Galatians 2:16 (NASB95) — 16 nevertheless knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the Law but through faith in Christ Jesus, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, so that we may be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the Law; since by the works of the Law no flesh will be justified.

 

[TomL]

@TomL



Yes saving Grace through the Person and work of Christ is always received, its reigns through righteousness Rom 5:21

21 That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord.

No scripture says Grace doesnt reign through righteousness unto salvation or eternal life by Jesus Christ.

If you have scripture you feel contradicts this, then please exegete them to show how so

You argued grace is irresistible,

Your claim is shown false as Christ died for all

1 Timothy 2:4–6
4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth. 5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; 6 Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.
Romans 5:18
Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.
Hebrews 2:9
But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.
1 Timothy 4:10
For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.
John 6:51
I am the living bread which came down from heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever: and the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.
2 Corinthians 5:14–15
14 For the love of Christ constraineth us; because we thus judge, that if one died for all, then were all dead: 15 And that he died for all, that they which live should not henceforth live unto themselves, but unto him which died for them, and rose again.
John 11:51
And this spake he not of himself: but being high priest that year, he prophesied that Jesus should die for that nation;
1 John 2:2
And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
2 Corinthians 5:19
To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

 

[Selah]

If people dont believe the Gospel when its proclaimed to them, its because they are not Christs Sheep He died for Jn 10:26

If people don’t believe the Gospel, they are not Christ’s sheep.

 

[brightfame52]

There are no unconditionally elect. Your religion made it up.

Nor is righteousness imputed apart from faith.

Galatians 2:16 (NASB95) — 16 nevertheless knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the Law but through faith in Christ Jesus, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, so that we may be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the Law; since by the works of the Law no flesh will be justified.

All the elect will receive it, Rom 5:17 is about the elect, and they receive it passively by imputation and then impartation, its received because given as gift, its abundance of Grace given

 

[brightfame52]

If people don’t believe the Gospel, they are not Christ’s sheep.

Right, a qualification to believe in Jesus is to be one of His redeemed sheep

 

[TedT]

Your claim is shown false as Christ died for all

...except for those condemned already for having never believed: Jn 3:18.

 

[Johann]

...except for those condemned already for having never believed: Jn 3:18.

Nobody is denying this.

Joh 3:18 The one who believes in him is not judged, [Or “condemned”] but the one who does not believe has already been judged, [Or “been condemned”] because he has not believed in the name of the one and only Son of God.
Joh 3:19 And this is the judgment: that the light has come into the world, and people loved the darkness rather than the light, because their deeds were evil.
Joh 3:20 For everyone who practices evil hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his deeds be exposed.
Joh 3:21 But the one who practices the truth comes to the light, in order that his deeds may be revealed, that they are done in God.


J.

 

[brightfame52]

...except for those condemned already for having never believed: Jn 3:18.

They are condemned for their sins, hence cant believe

 

[brightfame52]

Before a person is born again, we are in the flesh, in which we cannot please God, not even our best and most sincere religious deeds and behavior. In fact all such is nothing but evil deeds. Jn 3:19

19 ;And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.
False religious doctrine is evil deeds 2 Jn 9-11

9 Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son.

10 If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed:

11 For he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds.

 

[civic]

They are condemned for their sins, hence cant believe

Anyone can believe the gospel . Bible truth 101

 

[TomL]

...except for those condemned already for having never believed: Jn 3:18.

Um the verses say he died for all

1 Timothy 2:4–6
4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth. 5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; 6 Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.
Romans 5:18
Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.
Hebrews 2:9
But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.
1 Timothy 4:10
For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.
John 6:51
I am the living bread which came down from heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever: and the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.
2 Corinthians 5:14–15
14 For the love of Christ constraineth us; because we thus judge, that if one died for all, then were all dead: 15 And that he died for all, that they which live should not henceforth live unto themselves, but unto him which died for them, and rose again.
John 11:51
And this spake he not of himself: but being high priest that year, he prophesied that Jesus should die for that nation;
1 John 2:2
And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
2 Corinthians 5:19
To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

 

[TomL]

All the elect will receive it, Rom 5:17 is about the elect, and they receive it passively by imputation and then impartation, its received because given as gift, its abundance of Grace given

Sorry faith comes first

There are no unconditionally elect. Your religion made it up.

Nor is righteousness imputed apart from faith.

Galatians 2:16 (NASB95) — 16 nevertheless knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the Law but through faith in Christ Jesus, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, so that we may be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the Law; since by the works of the Law no flesh will be justified.