Irresistible Grace

In Christianity, foreknowledge and predestination are distinct concepts. Foreknowledge refers to God's omniscience and knowing all things comprehensively, while predestination involves God's active choice in determining who will believe the gospel.

Foreknowledge is true.

Predestination is false.
 
Foreknowledge a condition ? Thats a false statement. Foreknowledge is Gods action. You desperate. Foreknowledge is God foreknowing His People Rom 11:2

God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew. Wot ye not what the scripture saith of Elias? how he maketh intercession to God against Israel saying,

The elect !
You ignored this

To foreknow is to know before

Why did you fail to consider context

Romans 11:2 (LEB) — 2 God has not rejected his people, whom he foreknew! Or do you not know, in the passage about Elijah, what the scripture says—how he appeals to God against Israel?

Romans 11:3–4 (LEB) — 3 “Lord, they have killed your prophets, they have torn down your altars, and I alone am left, and they are seeking my life!” 4 But what does the divine response say to him? “I have left for myself seven thousand people who have not bent the knee to Baal.”

Those foreknown were those who had not bowed the knee to Baal

clearly a conditioned election refuting your belief in unconditional election.

Why is it that we see over and over you ignore what is plainly stated?
 
Irresistible Grace.

John Piper
“Irresistible grace refers to the sovereign work of God to overcome the rebellion of our heart and bring us to faith in Christ so that we can be saved.” Furthermore, “The doctrine of irresistible grace means that God is sovereign and can conquer all resistance when he wills.” In other words, “It means that the Holy Spirit, whenever he chooses, can overcome all resistance and make his influence irresistible.”

The question is this- is the above statement a universal truth found in Scripture or is it a doctrinal assumption in a systematic theology ?

Matthew 22:3
And sent forth his servants to call them that were bidden to the wedding: and they would not come.

Matthew 23:37
“Jerusalem, Jerusalem, you who kill the prophets and stone those sent to you, how often I have longed to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, and you were not willing.

Luke 19:41
And when he drew nigh, he saw the city and wept over it,

Barnes:
the triumphant King and Lord of Zion wept! Amid all "his" prosperity, and all the acclamations of the multitude, the heart of the Redeemer of the world was turned from the tokens of rejoicing to the miseries about to come on a guilty people. Yet they "might" have been saved.

conclusion: Those whom He came to seek and save ( the lost ) rejected Him.

2 Corinthians 6:1
As God’s partners, we beg you not to accept this marvelous gift of God’s kindness and then ignore it.

Hebrews 10:29
Just think how much worse the punishment will be for those who have trampled on the Son of God, and have treated the blood of the covenant, which made us holy, as if it were common and unholy, and have insulted and disdained the Holy Spirit who brings God’s mercy to us.

Hebrews 12:25
Be careful that you do not refuse to listen to the One who is speaking. For if the people of Israel did not escape when they refused to listen to Moses, the earthly messenger, we will certainly not escape if we reject the One who speaks to us from heaven!

Hebrews 6:4-8
It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit, 5 who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age 6 and who have fallen away, to be brought back to repentance. To their loss they are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting him to public disgrace.

Here we have those receiving Gods grace sharing in the Holy Spirit of grace reject it. They have fallen away permanently from His grace and can no longer repent.

Psalm 78:17;40
But they continued to sin against Him, rebelling in the desert against the Most High. How often they disobeyed Him in the wilderness and grieved Him in the desert!

Here we see them in the wilderness rejecting Gods grace upon them and grieving God in the process.

People sin: Which separated all from fellowship with God.
Responsible: Able-to-respond to God’s appeals for reconciliation.
Open door: For anyone to enter by faith. Whosoever will may come to His open arms.
Vicarious atonement: Provides a way for anyone to be saved by Christ’s blood.
Illuminating grace: Provides clearly revealed truth so that all can know and respond in faith.
Destroyed: For unbelief and resisting the Holy Spirit.
Eternal security: For all true believers.

Gods teaching His Grace is resisted which refutes the " I " in tulip

My top 20 reasons against grace being irresistible


1-Matthew 22:3
And sent forth his servants to call them that were bidden to the wedding: and they would not come.

2-Matthew 23:37
“Jerusalem, Jerusalem, you who kill the prophets and stone those sent to you, how often I have longed to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, and you were not willing.

3-Luke 19:41
And when he drew nigh, he saw the city and wept over it,

4-Galatians 5:4-7
You are severed from Christ, you who would be justified by the law; you have fallen away from grace. For through the Spirit, by faith, we wait for the hope of righteousness. For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision is of any avail, but faith working through love. You were running well; who hindered you from obeying the truth?

5-Hebrews 12:14-15
Make every effort to live in peace with everyone and to be holy; without holiness no one will see the Lord. 15 See to it that no one falls short of the grace of God and that no bitter root grows up to cause trouble and defile many.

6-2 Corinthians 6:1
As God’s partners, we beg you not to accept this marvelous gift of God’s kindness and then ignore it.

7-Hebrews 10:29
Just think how much worse the punishment will be for those who have trampled on the Son of God, and have treated the blood of the covenant, which made us holy, as if it were common and unholy, and have insulted and disdained the Holy Spirit who brings God’s mercy to us.

8-Hebrews 12:25
Be careful that you do not refuse to listen to the One who is speaking. For if the people of Israel did not escape when they refused to listen to Moses, the earthly messenger, we will certainly not escape if we reject the One who speaks to us from heaven!

9-Genesis 6:3: And the Lord said, “My Spirit shall not strive with man forever, for he is indeed flesh; yet his days shall be one hundred and twenty years.”

10-2 Chronicles 36:15-16: And the Lord God of their fathers sent warnings to them by His messengers, rising up early and sending them, because He had compassion on His people and on His dwelling place. But they mocked the messengers of God, despised His words, and scoffed at His prophets, until the wrath of the Lord arose against His people, till there was no remedy.

11-Proverbs 29:1: He who is often rebuked, and hardens his neck, Will suddenly be destroyed, and that without remedy.

12-Isaiah 30:15 “For thus says the Lord God, the Holy One of Israel: ‘In returning and rest you shall be saved; In quiteness and confidence shall be your strength.’ But you would not.”

13-Isaiah 65:2“I have stretched out My hands all day long to a rebellious people, Who walk in a way that is not good, According to their own thoughts.”

14-Jeremiah 35:15 “I have also sent to you all My servants the prophets, rising up early and sending them, saying, ‘Turn now everyone from his evil way, amend your doings, and do not go after other gods to serve them; then you will dwell in the land which I have given to you and your fathers.’ But you have not inclined your ear, nor obeyed Me.”

15-Acts 7:51 “You stiff-necked and uncircumcised in heart and ears! You always resist the Holy Spirit; as your fathers did, so do you.”

16-Acts 13:46: Then Paul and Barnabas grew bold and said, “It was necessary that the word of God should be spoken to you first; but since you reject it, and judge yourselves unworthy of everlasting life, behold, we turn to the Gentiles.”

17-Romans 10:21: But to Israel he says: “All day long I have stretched out My hands To a disobedient and contrary people.”

18- Matthew 23:37: Jerusalem, Jerusalem, who kills the prophets and stones those sent to her! How often I have wanted to gather your children together, the way a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, and you were unwilling.”

19- Hebrews 6:4-8
It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit, 5 who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age 6 and who have fallen away, to be brought back to repentance. To their loss they are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting him to public disgrace.

Here we have those receiving Gods grace sharing in the Holy Spirit of grace reject it. They have fallen away permanently from His grace and can no longer repent.

20- Psalm 78:17;40
But they continued to sin against Him, rebelling in the desert against the Most High. How often they disobeyed Him in the wilderness and grieved Him in the desert.

Adam who was “spiritually “dead hid from God in the garden and was able to communicate with God and understand Him. In the day you eat you shall surely die. So adam sinned and was spiritually dead and yet could communicate with God and understand God. “I heard you in the garden, and I was afraid because I was naked; so I hid.” (Genesis 3:10)

Luke 16:27-31 -“He answered, ‘Then I beg you, father, send Lazarus to my family, for I have five brothers. Let him warn them, so that they will not also come to this place of torment.’ Abraham replied, ‘They have Moses and the Prophets; let them listen to them.’ ‘No, father Abraham,’ he said, ‘but if someone from the dead goes to them, they will repent.’ He said to him, ‘If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, they will not be convinced even if someone rises from the dead.’”

Above we see that Jesus declared the physical dead and spiritual dead can respond to spiritual things. The dead spiritual/physical dead man is pleading for his own brother’s life.

Jesus declares in John 5:25, “An hour is coming, and is now here, when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God, and those who hear will live.” Here Jesus says the spiritually dead can and will hear him

In Mark 2:17 Jesus said, “"It is not the healthy who need a doctor, but the sick. I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners." The sick/spiritually dead can hear and understand Jesus- the sinner who is dead in their sins can understand.

In Romans 1 we read of the spiritually dead that they can perceive God and that Gods handiwork is self-evident to them and that the things of God are clearly seen by them so that they are without excuse. Romans 1:20- For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse.”

conclusion: You see the doctrine of irresistible grace is unfounded and there are many unproven presuppositions built into Gods Sovereignty and mans condition and free will to choose or reject God. God does not force Himself on anyone for that by definition would be unloving, just as it would be for you or I to force another person to love you.

hope this helps !!!
So what about God's grace is unable to subdue the will of man?
 
In Christianity, foreknowledge and predestination are distinct concepts. Foreknowledge refers to God's omniscience and knowing all things comprehensively, while predestination involves God's active choice in determining who will believe the gospel.

Foreknowledge is true.

Predestination is false.
How can predestination be false if it is clearly written?

Romans 8:28-30 (KJV) 28 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to [his] purpose. 29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate [to be] conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren. 30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.
 
'For as the rain cometh down, and the snow from heaven,
and returneth not thither, but watereth the earth,
and maketh it bring forth and bud,
that it may give seed to the sower, and bread to the eater:

So shall My word be that goeth forth out of My mouth:
it shall not return unto Me void,
but it shall accomplish that which I please,
and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it.'

(Isa 55:10-11)

Praise God!
 
You ignored this

To foreknow is to know before

Why did you fail to consider context

Romans 11:2 (LEB) — 2 God has not rejected his people, whom he foreknew! Or do you not know, in the passage about Elijah, what the scripture says—how he appeals to God against Israel?

Romans 11:3–4 (LEB) — 3 “Lord, they have killed your prophets, they have torn down your altars, and I alone am left, and they are seeking my life!” 4 But what does the divine response say to him? “I have left for myself seven thousand people who have not bent the knee to Baal.”

Those foreknown were those who had not bowed the knee to Baal

clearly a conditioned election refuting your belief in unconditional election.

Why is it that we see over and over you ignore what is plainly stated?
Foreknowledge a condition ? Thats a false statement. Foreknowledge is Gods action. You desperate. Foreknowledge is God foreknowing His People Rom 11:2

God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew. Wot ye not what the scripture saith of Elias? how he maketh intercession to God against Israel saying,

The elect !
 
Irresistible Grace.

The question is this- is the above statement a universal truth found in Scripture or is it a doctrinal assumption in a systematic theology ?
A "Doctrinal Assumption" of course - MAYBE with some truth associated - "Theology" is like noses - everybody's got one.

There's the "Short term", and the "LONG term" aspects.

It's a GIVEN, that WITHOUT the Conviction of SIN by the Holy Spirit, NOBODY'S GETTING BORN AGAIN. (Eph 2:8,9) Humans can't even "Repent" acceptably unless they're under conviction of SIN. AS one poster here put it years ago: "No Conviction = NO Conversion". FAITH (Heb 11:1), which is necessary for being born again follows Rom 10:17. It's the result of "HEARING, and HEARING by the Word of God".

But - when you're "Convicted of SIN" you May, OR MAY NOT, of your own free will, surrender to what you KNOW, and repent, calling on God in FAITH, AT THAT TIME!!! God isn't a "One Strike and you're OUT" God. I ran away back into death several times, before the last time in 1963, when I was finally at the "End of my rope" 20 years old, and hopeless.

Mom listened to the "Hour of decision" radio show, and supported the Billy Graham ministry. and I learned to leave the house before Billy got to the invitation - since I didn't want to be convicted, and have that terrible feeling that I HAD TO DO something!!!!

However, in the long term, when you're Convicted AGAIN - the same free-will decision exists. In my personal case, I was convicted several times, but only the LAST time resulted in my being born again. And the thing that made the difference was a certain awareness that this MIGHT BE the LAST TIME He'd come to me in Conviction, and if he didn't I would be DOOMED if I ignored it again. Biblically His Spirit won't ALWAYS strive with Man (Gen 6:3). I COULD HAVE walked away again, but I didn't.

SO - in my case, arguably, the Conviction of the Holy Spirit WAS IRRESISTIBLE - in the LONG term, but completely "resistible" in the short term.

Simple as that!!!
 
Foreknowledge a condition ? Thats a false statement. Foreknowledge is Gods action. You desperate. Foreknowledge is God foreknowing His People Rom 11:2

God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew. Wot ye not what the scripture saith of Elias? how he maketh intercession to God against Israel saying,

The elect !
Read the text

God's foreknowledge of these men were they had not bowed the knee to Baal

You ignored this

To foreknow is to know before

Why did you fail to consider context

Romans 11:2 (LEB) — 2 God has not rejected his people, whom he foreknew! Or do you not know, in the passage about Elijah, what the scripture says—how he appeals to God against Israel?

Romans 11:3–4 (LEB) — 3 “Lord, they have killed your prophets, they have torn down your altars, and I alone am left, and they are seeking my life!” 4 But what does the divine response say to him? “I have left for myself seven thousand people who have not bent the knee to Baal.”

Those foreknown were those who had not bowed the knee to Baal

clearly a conditioned election refuting your belief in unconditional election.

Why is it that we see over and over you ignore what is plainly stated?
 
How can predestination be false if it is clearly written?

Romans 8:28-30 (KJV) 28 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to [his] purpose. 29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate [to be] conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren. 30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.
 
Predestination is a different thing than the basis of the predestination.

To destine before does not speak in and of itself as to what the basis of the being destined before is on.
 
Predestination is a different thing than the basis of the predestination.

To destine before does not speak in and of itself as to what the basis of the being destined before is on.
The other camp has hi jacked the meaning of the word to fit their systematic theology
 
Read the text

God's foreknowledge of these men were they had not bowed the knee to Baal

You ignored this

To foreknow is to know before

Why did you fail to consider context

Romans 11:2 (LEB) — 2 God has not rejected his people, whom he foreknew! Or do you not know, in the passage about Elijah, what the scripture says—how he appeals to God against Israel?

Romans 11:3–4 (LEB) — 3 “Lord, they have killed your prophets, they have torn down your altars, and I alone am left, and they are seeking my life!” 4 But what does the divine response say to him? “I have left for myself seven thousand people who have not bent the knee to Baal.”

Those foreknown were those who had not bowed the knee to Baal

clearly a conditioned election refuting your belief in unconditional election.

Why is it that we see over and over you ignore what is plainly stated?
Foreknowledge a condition ? Thats a false statement. Foreknowledge is Gods action. You desperate. Foreknowledge is God foreknowing His People Rom 11:2

God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew. Wot ye not what the scripture saith of Elias? how he maketh intercession to God against Israel saying,

The elect !
 
Foreknowledge a condition ? Thats a false statement. Foreknowledge is Gods action. You desperate. Foreknowledge is God foreknowing His People Rom 11:2

God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew. Wot ye not what the scripture saith of Elias? how he maketh intercession to God against Israel saying,

The elect !
Luke 14

16 Then said he unto him, A certain man made a great supper, and bade many:

17 And sent his servant at supper time to say to them that were bidden, Come; for all things are now ready.

18 And they all with one consent began to make excuse. The first said unto him, I have bought a piece of ground, and I must needs go and see it: I pray thee have me excused.

19 And another said, I have bought five yoke of oxen, and I go to prove them: I pray thee have me excused.

20 And another said, I have married a wife, and therefore I cannot come.

21 So that servant came, and shewed his lord these things. Then the master of the house being angry said to his servant, Go out quickly into the streets and lanes of the city, and bring in hither the poor, and the maimed, and the halt, and the blind.

22 And the servant said, Lord, it is done as thou hast commanded, and yet there is room.

23 And the lord said unto the servant, Go out into the highways and hedges, and compel them to come in, that my house may be filled.

24 For I say unto you, That none of those men which were bidden shall taste of my supper.

This parable speaks expressly against Calvinism, because God is trying to compel the poor, the blind, the halt, the people in the highways and hedges, everyone to come. God bids everyone to come. Calvinism claims that God has not bid everyone, but unconditionally bids only his sheep to come.
 
Foreknowledge a condition ? Thats a false statement. Foreknowledge is Gods action. You desperate. Foreknowledge is God foreknowing His People Rom 11:2

God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew. Wot ye not what the scripture saith of Elias? how he maketh intercession to God against Israel saying,

The elect !
Wake up

The content of his foreknowledge involved a condition

Read the text



Romans 11:2 (LEB) — 2 God has not rejected his people, whom he foreknew! Or do you not know, in the passage about Elijah, what the scripture says—how he appeals to God against Israel?

Romans 11:3–4 (LEB) — 3 “Lord, they have killed your prophets, they have torn down your altars, and I alone am left, and they are seeking my life!” 4 But what does the divine response say to him? “I have left for myself seven thousand people who have not bent the knee to Baal.”

Those foreknown were those who had not bowed the knee to Baal


clearly a conditioned election refuting your belief in unconditional election.

Why is it that we see over and over you ignore what is plainly stated?
 
Luke 14

16 Then said he unto him, A certain man made a great supper, and bade many:

17 And sent his servant at supper time to say to them that were bidden, Come; for all things are now ready.

18 And they all with one consent began to make excuse. The first said unto him, I have bought a piece of ground, and I must needs go and see it: I pray thee have me excused.

19 And another said, I have bought five yoke of oxen, and I go to prove them: I pray thee have me excused.

20 And another said, I have married a wife, and therefore I cannot come.

21 So that servant came, and shewed his lord these things. Then the master of the house being angry said to his servant, Go out quickly into the streets and lanes of the city, and bring in hither the poor, and the maimed, and the halt, and the blind.

22 And the servant said, Lord, it is done as thou hast commanded, and yet there is room.

23 And the lord said unto the servant, Go out into the highways and hedges, and compel them to come in, that my house may be filled.

24 For I say unto you, That none of those men which were bidden shall taste of my supper.

This parable speaks expressly against Calvinism, because God is trying to compel the poor, the blind, the halt, the people in the highways and hedges, everyone to come. God bids everyone to come. Calvinism claims that God has not bid everyone, but unconditionally bids only his sheep to come.
God causes all the elect to come, irresistible Grace. Jn 6:37

37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.
 
Wake up

The content of his foreknowledge involved a condition
Foreknowledge a condition ? Thats a false statement. Foreknowledge is Gods action. You desperate. Foreknowledge is God foreknowing His People Rom 11:2

God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew. Wot ye not what the scripture saith of Elias? how he maketh intercession to God against Israel saying,

The elect ! Foreknowledge has never in scripture stated to be a condition to get saved. Thats a man made deception
 
Foreknowledge a condition ? Thats a false statement. Foreknowledge is Gods action. You desperate. Foreknowledge is God foreknowing His People Rom 11:2

God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew. Wot ye not what the scripture saith of Elias? how he maketh intercession to God against Israel saying,

The elect ! Foreknowledge has never in scripture stated to be a condition to get saved. Thats a man made deception
Can you read?

Those God foreknew had not bowed a knee to Baal

Romans 11:2–4 (LEB) — 2 God has not rejected his people, whom he foreknew! Or do you not know, in the passage about Elijah, what the scripture says—how he appeals to God against Israel? 3 “Lord, they have killed your prophets, they have torn down your altars, and I alone am left, and they are seeking my life!” 4 But what does the divine response say to him? “I have left for myself seven thousand people who have not bent the knee to Baal.”
 
Yup. John 6:44 "no one comes to me except....." John 6:65 "no one can come to me unless....."
Nope

one must hear and learn

John 6:45 (LEB) — 45 It is written in the prophets, ‘And they will all be taught by God.’ Everyone who hears from the Father and learns comes to me.

learning involves the response of men
 
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