brightfame52
Well-known member
The question is can you read and comprehend ?
Irresistible Grace
- Thread starter civic
- Start date
I prove that with my posts
you prove the opposite with yours, as you never respond to scriptural rebuttal.
brightfame52
Well-known member
@TomL
The poster is corrupting the word foreknow an action of Gods, and not an action of the one foreknown. In the soteriological sphere, Gods foreknowledge, now the nature of this foreknowledge? If we examine the canonical OT background, we see that God’s knowledge of future events is active and discriminating. A classic proof text with regard to this is Jer 1:5, where God declares that he knows Jeremiah before he (God) even formed him in the womb, setting him apart and appointing him as a prophet to the nations
Jer 1:5
5 Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations.
He knew Jeremiah before, in a sanctifying way. It had nothing to do with any actions of Jeremiah, for he hadn't even been born,the sense that God knew who Jeremiah would be, formed him, and chose him for the prophetic task. All of this activity, including God’s foreknowing, is based in God, and not in the object of the activity.
Even in the Rom 11:2 reference, the emphasis is on God knowing His People before Jn 11:2
2 God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew. Wot ye not what the scripture saith of Elias? how he maketh intercession to God against Israel saying,
This is a people He reserved for Himself, as in Election :
4 But what saith the answer of God unto him? I have reserved to myself seven thousand men, who have not bowed the knee to the image of Baal.
5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.
For it was Gods reservation of them, an act of sovereign grace, that they were spared from idolatry. Its like when its written Rev 13:8
8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.
But Gods people He foreknew, their names had been written in the book of life of the Lamb, so they were reserved from the worship of the beast with the rest of the world.
And that speaks to the honor of Gods irresistible grace !
The poster is corrupting the word foreknow an action of Gods, and not an action of the one foreknown. In the soteriological sphere, Gods foreknowledge, now the nature of this foreknowledge? If we examine the canonical OT background, we see that God’s knowledge of future events is active and discriminating. A classic proof text with regard to this is Jer 1:5, where God declares that he knows Jeremiah before he (God) even formed him in the womb, setting him apart and appointing him as a prophet to the nations
Jer 1:5
5 Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations.
He knew Jeremiah before, in a sanctifying way. It had nothing to do with any actions of Jeremiah, for he hadn't even been born,the sense that God knew who Jeremiah would be, formed him, and chose him for the prophetic task. All of this activity, including God’s foreknowing, is based in God, and not in the object of the activity.
Even in the Rom 11:2 reference, the emphasis is on God knowing His People before Jn 11:2
2 God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew. Wot ye not what the scripture saith of Elias? how he maketh intercession to God against Israel saying,
This is a people He reserved for Himself, as in Election :
4 But what saith the answer of God unto him? I have reserved to myself seven thousand men, who have not bowed the knee to the image of Baal.
5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.
For it was Gods reservation of them, an act of sovereign grace, that they were spared from idolatry. Its like when its written Rev 13:8
8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.
But Gods people He foreknew, their names had been written in the book of life of the Lamb, so they were reserved from the worship of the beast with the rest of the world.
And that speaks to the honor of Gods irresistible grace !
God predestines only that which is good and right. God is Holy. We possess free will which we make use of to believe in Christ, at which point we become predestined to be conformed to the image of Christ.
Because God is not bound by time then this is all foreknown by Him.
brightfame52
Well-known member
This post was about foreknow
brightfame52
Well-known member
And
Johann
Well-known member
Consider this passage as just one of many examples:
“David knew that Saul was plotting harm against him. And he said to Abiathar the priest, “Bring the ephod here.” Then David said, “O Lord, the God of Israel, your servant has surely heard that Saul seeks to come to Keilah, to destroy the city on my account. Will the men of Keilah surrender me into his hand? Will Saul come down, as your servant has heard? O Lord, the God of Israel, please tell your servant.” And the Lord said, “He will come down.” Then David said, “Will the men of Keilah surrender me and my men into the hand of Saul?” And the Lord said, “They will surrender you.” Then David and his men, who were about six hundred, arose and departed from Keilah, and they went wherever they could go. When Saul was told that David had escaped from Keilah, he gave up the expedition.” -1 Samuel 23:9-13 ESV
The passage above proves that God foreknew of an expedition that did NOT come to pass, therefore demonstrating that exhaustive divine foreknowledge of all things does not equal exhaustive divine predetermination of all things.
A Calvinist may rebut by saying, “But God also foreknew David would ask these questions and leave the city after being told Saul was coming.”
I would respond by saying, “so what?” The fact is that God foreknew an event that did not come to pass. That is all that is needed to establish that foreknowledge doesn’t necessitate determinism. Plus, the point of our contention is not over whether or not God foreknew of David’s questions and his response, the real contention is over whether the knowledge itself necessitated or determined David’s choices. There is nothing logically or biblically to suggest that it did. After all, God foreknew of Saul’s expedition and that never came to pass.
J.
brightfame52
Well-known member
This has no relevance friend, Still all choices, decisions, acts men do, were ordained by God subservient to His Will.
and that's that. You want me to echo your heretical presuppositions? Ain't going to happen, friend. Want more information? Read Johann's post.
brightfame52
Well-known member
You dont make no sense friend, not ever, I dont see how anyone can take you serious with your offbeat comments.
civic
Well-known member
Yes that’s the how , the prerequisite.
Duane
Member
There is a lot you don't see.
Complete
Well-known member
Hello @civic,
1) Adam could not die spiritually, because he was not spiritual:-
'And so it is written,
The first man Adam was made a living soul;
the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.
Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural;
and afterward that which is spiritual.
The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven.
As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy:
and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly.
And as we have borne the image of the earthy,
we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.'
(1Co 15:45-49)
2) Re: Luke 16:17-31:- The Pharisees believed that it was possible for the dead to communicate with the living, but the testimony of Scripture makes void that belief. It claims that they go down into silence, and thereby deny that there is consciousness in death (Psa. 115:17. In the story of the rich man and Lazarus the Lord was exposing the hypocrisy of the Pharisee, who made the word of God of none effect by their tradition.
'The dead praise not the LORD,
neither any that go down into silence.'
(Psa 115:17)
* I do not expect you to respond to this, for it is not the subject of the thread, but please do consider it.
Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris
Selah
Active member
Conversion involves a person's "choice" to repent and believe in Christ. When an individual is called and drawn by the Father, he still has to, through faith in Christ, choose Him.
Yep. We need revelation, but it is up to us to learn from it.
Utter nonsense
There is a content to what God foreknows
Clearly the elect here are those who had not bowed a knee to Baal
Those God knows or knows before
1 Corinthians 8:3 (LEB) — 3 But if anyone loves God, this one is known by him.
'
Galatians 4:9 (LEB) — 9 But now, because you have come to know God, or rather have come to be known by God, how can you turn back again to the weak and miserable elemental spirits? Do you want to be enslaved to them all over again?
Election according to foreknowledge is an Arminian not a Calvinist position
Arminian Election: Historical Background and Theological Insights
Explore the historical and theological nuances of Arminian election, its scriptural basis, and its impact on modern theology.
DivineNarratives Team
Published Jul 24, 2024
The debate over divine election has long been a cornerstone of Christian theological discourse. Arminianism, named after the Dutch theologian Jacobus Arminius, offers an alternative perspective to Calvinist predestination that emphasizes human free will and conditional election.
This topic is important because it shapes how millions of Christians understand salvation, grace, and God’s sovereignty.
To grasp these concepts fully, we need to delve into their origins and implications.
Historical Background of Arminianism
The roots of Arminianism trace back to the late 16th and early 17th centuries, a period marked by intense theological debate within the Reformed tradition. Jacobus Arminius, a Dutch Reformed theologian, emerged as a significant figure during this time. Initially, Arminius was a student of Theodore Beza, John Calvin’s successor, and was expected to uphold Calvinist doctrines. However, his theological journey took a different path, leading him to question and eventually challenge some of the prevailing Calvinist views.Arminius’s divergence from Calvinism was not abrupt but rather a gradual process influenced by his pastoral and academic experiences. As a pastor in Amsterdam and later a professor at the University of Leiden, Arminius engaged deeply with the Scriptures and the writings of early church fathers. His reflections led him to emphasize the role of human free will in salvation, a stance that contrasted sharply with the Calvinist doctrine of unconditional election.
The theological tensions between Arminius and his Calvinist contemporaries culminated in a series of public debates and writings. Arminius’s followers, known as the Remonstrants, formalized his views in a document called the “Remonstrance of 1610.” This document outlined five articles of faith that opposed the Calvinist teachings on predestination, grace, and atonement. The Remonstrance sparked significant controversy and led to the Synod of Dort (1618-1619), where Arminianism was condemned, and Calvinist orthodoxy was reaffirmed.
Despite the Synod’s condemnation, Arminianism continued to grow and evolve. It found a receptive audience in various Protestant circles, particularly among those who were uncomfortable with the deterministic implications of Calvinism. Over time, Arminianism influenced the development of Methodism through John Wesley, who adopted and adapted Arminian principles to form the theological foundation of his movement.
Key Theological Concepts
Arminian theology is distinctive for its emphasis on the synergistic relationship between divine grace and human free will. At its core, this perspective maintains that while God’s grace initiates the process of salvation, human beings possess the capacity to either accept or reject this grace. This collaboration between divine influence and human response stands in contrast to the monergistic view of salvation, which asserts that God alone determines an individual’s salvation without any human cooperation.Central to Arminian thought is the concept of prevenient grace. This grace, which precedes any human action, is believed to be universally extended to all people, enabling them to respond to God’s call. Unlike irresistible grace in Calvinist theology, prevenient grace does not compel a response but rather empowers individuals to make a genuine choice regarding their faith. This notion upholds the integrity of human free will while also affirming God’s initiative in the salvation process.
Arminianism also introduces the idea of resistible grace, which asserts that humans can resist God’s grace even after it has been extended to them. This resistance can manifest in various forms, such as willful disobedience or neglect of spiritual disciplines. The possibility of resisting grace underscores the Arminian belief in the ongoing responsibility of believers to remain steadfast in their faith journey.
Another significant aspect of Arminian theology is its view on perseverance. Unlike the Calvinist doctrine of the perseverance of the saints, which guarantees that the elect will inevitably persevere in faith until the end, Arminianism posits that true believers have the potential to fall away from grace. This belief is rooted in the conviction that human free will remains operative throughout one’s life, making it possible for individuals to choose to abandon their faith.
Conditional Election Explained
At the heart of Arminian theology lies the doctrine of conditional election, a concept that fundamentally redefines the nature of divine selection. Unlike the deterministic framework often associated with Calvinist thought, conditional election posits that God’s choice to save individuals is contingent upon their response to His grace. This means that while God desires all to be saved, He elects those who freely choose to accept His offer of salvation.This theological stance underscores the dynamic interaction between divine sovereignty and human agency. God’s foreknowledge plays a pivotal role here; He foresees who will respond positively to His grace and elects them accordingly.
Arminian Election: Historical Background and Theological Insights
Explore the historical and theological nuances of Arminian election, its scriptural basis, and its impact on modern theology.
divinenarratives.org
brightfame52
Well-known member
Yes and thats one of them
brightfame52
Well-known member
This has no relevance friend, Still all choices, decisions, acts men do, were ordained by God subservient to His Will.
brightfame52
Well-known member
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