praise_yeshua
Well-known member
Some to think that God can lie of He desires.
Infant Reprobation and Damnation
- Thread starter civic
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Some to think that God can lie of He desires.
Diserner
Well-known member
Sorry, I misunderstood your point there.
Diserner
Well-known member
Do you deny God has free will?
Did God choose his character or was he bound by his own nature?
praise_yeshua
Well-known member
No problem. I'm watching the Ravens having problems...
praise_yeshua
Well-known member
No I do not deny that God has free will. God has no will to lie. It is a matter of Character. If God acts contrary to His character then He is no better than any sinner.
The Rogue Tomato
Well-known member
I can think of several grown-up reprobates. As for infants, it doesn't matter to me. All newborns are selfish, and that's perfectly natural. Is that evidence of a sinful nature? I don't know, and I don't care. If people are born reprobates and die as an infant, maybe God will have mercy on them. It's not an automatic sentence to hell, because God can do whatever He wants with His creation, and I trust all His decisions to be right.
praise_yeshua
Well-known member
Got to love the appeal to a newborn being selfish. How about a parent without "natural affection".....
With that attitude and belief just how do you tell the difference between God and Satan?
praise_yeshua
Well-known member
Notice the reference to reprobate actions witnessed by Paul....
2Ti 3:1 This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come.
2Ti 3:2 For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy,
2Ti 3:3 Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good,
2Ti 3:4 Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;
2Ti 3:5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.
2Ti 3:6 For of this sort are they which creep into houses, and lead captive silly women laden with sins, led away with divers lusts,
2Ti 3:7 Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.
2Ti 3:8 Now as Jannes and Jambres withstood Moses, so do these also resist the truth: men of corrupt minds, reprobate concerning the faith.
2Ti 3:1 This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come.
2Ti 3:2 For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy,
2Ti 3:3 Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good,
2Ti 3:4 Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;
2Ti 3:5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.
2Ti 3:6 For of this sort are they which creep into houses, and lead captive silly women laden with sins, led away with divers lusts,
2Ti 3:7 Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.
2Ti 3:8 Now as Jannes and Jambres withstood Moses, so do these also resist the truth: men of corrupt minds, reprobate concerning the faith.
The Rogue Tomato
Well-known member
If it's scriptural, then it's from God. If you can find scripture that says babies are born innocent or born reprobate, then that's how you know it's from God. Anything beyond that is meaningless speculation.
Ezra
Well-known member
he is to far out there for me
praise_yeshua
Well-known member
You are speculating.
praise_yeshua
Well-known member
He is to me too. I know both their teachings well. I have studied them. I have tried to engage White over the years. He is extraordinarily dismissive relative to Calvinism. Arrogant is a understatement when it comes to James White and Calvinism. He is talented when it comes to English Bible translations. Still very dismissive and arrogant.
I suppose we all are at times.
I understand the anger associated with feeling someone is deceiving others. I get that way myself. Calvinism is such a silly doctrine to me that I don't see how anyone can take it seriously.
Calvinists tend to me very vocal. That is one of the few reasons they've even have a "voice" today. They are slowly disappearing.
Easy enough... Time has no dominion.
Elect sinners are saved, reprobate sinners are not, no matter when or how they die. Election and reprobation are NOT UNCONDITIONAL but are based upon the condition of a free will faith in HIM as their saviour (the elect) or their free will rebuke of HIM as a liar and a false god, (the reprobate).
Believers are never condemned and those who never believed are condemned already from pre-conception on: John 3:18.
Diserner
Well-known member
civic
Well-known member
And infants ?
ImCo,
GOD has a free will within the bounds of HIS Divine nature.
I'm not a big fan of Bob Enyart but I believe he wrote this:
* Lying and Legalism: This seems like as good a place as any to list the places in the Bible where, with God's approval, the righteous lied to the wicked. In the process, they received God's blessing. This is a legalism issue. Legalists tend to struggle with the Lord's teaching that man was not made for the Sabbath, but the Sabbath for man. Thus, even though God prohibited Israel from doing work on the Sabbath, because of the nature of the Sabbath law, of course there would be exceptions. For example, even though the prohibition extended even to the gathering of sticks, if an Israelite came upon a child freezing in the wilderness, if lighting a fire to save the boy required the man to pick up sticks, of course he should do so even if it were the Sabbath. The actual sin against God would be in letting the child die to avoid working on Saturday. Using actual historical examples, legalistic Christians get confused about the morality of lying to a German Gestapo agent who asked whether or not you were hiding Jews. Lying to the wicked to save the innocent does not violate God's prohibition against bearing false witness against your neighbor. As a general rule, of course, it is a sin to tell countless kinds of lies. But there are plenty of examples in the Bible of God's servants, and even of God Himself, deceiving the wicked by lying to them. For example, when the Syrian army came to arrest Elisha, by the power of God the prophet blinded them and told them that they had arrived at the wrong house, and that he would lead them to the man they were searching for, yet instead, he led them into a trap, at which time at the request of Elisha God restored their sight, and then they saw that they had been deceived. The Hebrew midwives not only disobeyed the government's command that they kill the male infants, but they also lied to the king, and God blessed them by giving them children of their own. Rahab lied to the government to protect the Jews who were hiding nearby, and God then included her in the geneaology of Jesus Christ. God deceives the wicked in the Scriptures, and instructs His people on how to decieve them, for example, by laying a trap in the ambush of Ai. In World War II the allies created a fake cardboard army to deceive the Germans regarding the location of the invasion at Normandy. Praise God!
* Biblical Civil Disobedience: Half of those listed in Hebrews Hall of Faith were arrested for disobeying the government, and the New Testament tells us that, "We must obey God rather than men." For a discussion of the scriptural material on this, and how it justifies those who lied to and even disobeyed the governing authorities, like Rahab, Corrie Ten Boom, the Hebrew midwives, etc., listen to Bob's God's Criminal Justice System seminar!
...and I like it.
NO HE can't - HE can only do what is morally right with HIS creation!
OR, perhaps:
YES because HE can only want to do whatever is the most morally right thing with HIS creation...especially if to want is to do for GOD.
Not sure what you mean...
Jacob and Esau were so selfish in the womb that they were trying to murderously crush each other to pieces to become the first born, Gen 25:21-24.
Aside from the fact that ordinary theology is unable to answer how they could have known about the Hebrew law of primogeniture and that they were in fact going to be born into Hebrew society, their murderous intent must have been sinful for at least one of them and selfish in the extreme.
Gnostic based theologies cannot do this...
