Gods Inability to save

[GodsGrace]

So Christ actually died for those who were already lost at the time of His death? He is their saviour? So they could be saved at some point in the future? PLEASE actually address my questions.

You question assumes your understanding of the word all which you have not established yet and refuse to.

Perhaps YOU don't understand the word Presby.

To tell someone that they don't understand the word because they don't agree with YOU
is pride at its height.

I'll say AGAIN:

Christ died for EVERYONE who EVER lived, past, present and future.
YES. Anyone that is saved, is saved because of Jesus....those past, present and future.

Theology 101.

I even posted Genesis 3:15 and explained fully.....
not much more I can do ....

 

[brightfame52]

@Doug Brents

Nope, it is not foolishness to me.

Sure it is, but hey u not alone, the Gospel is foolishness to multitudes of folk. Anyone with scripture understanding knows that the word for world, in a salvation context merely means, others outside of israel.

 

[TedT]

Jacob and Esau didn't know anything about "Hebrew politics". They fought each other as rivals, not because they knew or understood right and wrongod told .

This is not what GOD told Rebecca...

 

[civic]

Offered? That's a fairytale

lol

 

[TedT]

Again, he recognized the Spirit of God in Jesus, but he did not yet know right vs wrong.

Yet Lk 1:44 For as soon as the sound of your greeting reached my ears, the baby in my womb leaped for joy. seems to tell us that it was May's voice that he recognized...

 

[TedT]

You are extrapolating "politics" out of sibling rivalry.

I extrapolate political hubris because GOD told us that is why they were fighting.

 

[TedT]

I never said it was our ability or own strength. It’s the work of God

Ok...this is not what "we must accept HIS offer of grace" usually sounds like.

 

[TedT]

The offer is on the table for everyone, but you MUST choose .

HOW DOES A PERSON ENSLAVED TO SIN MAKE SUCH A RIGHTEOUS DECISION by his enslaved will?

 

[TedT]

When was our will taken away from us? Please post the book, chapter and verse.

When we chose to be sinners by choosing our first sin...Jn 8:34.

 

[TedT]

So freewill was alive and well back then.

I champion the necessity of our free will but I do not support the false free will of those enslaved to sin. The ability to choose does not prove our free will because those enslaved to sin choose all the time but they always make a sinful choice as they are enslaved ... or Jesus' words are nothing but babble.

A true free will is uncerced / unforced by any and all other forces or wills in existence. A holy will chooses holiness because that is what it wants while a will enslaved to sin must choose only evil as that is what their enslaved will can only desire. And unholy desires end in sin, James 1:14 But each one is tempted when by his own evil desires he is lured away and enticed.…

Joshua has the power of the Holy Spirit on the side of anyone wanting to fight with him. This did not break their free will but it did temporarily break their enslaved will so they could follow him.

 

[TedT]

again,, he who believes is not condemned

Rom 1:18The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of men who suppress the truth by their wickedness. 19 For what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. 20 For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood from His workmanship, so that men are without excuse.

25They exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is forever worthy of praise! Amen.

32Although they know God’s righteous decree that those who do such things are worthy of death, they not only continue to do these things, but also approve of those who practice them.

Do we suggest that they can know these things because GOD made them plain to them but not believe in them???

So, not all believers in the truth are saved... I think we must rework our language a little bit, eh?

 

[Presby02]

Perhaps YOU don't understand the word Presby.

To tell someone that they don't understand the word because they don't agree with YOU
is pride at its height.

I'll say AGAIN:

Christ died for EVERYONE who EVER lived, past, present and future.
YES. Anyone that is saved, is saved because of Jesus....those past, present and future.

Theology 101.

I even posted Genesis 3:15 and explained fully.....
not much more I can do ....

You dodge my question as I suspected you would.

 

[Presby02]

Presby...let me make this very clear to you....

GOD has ALWAYS revealed Himself to EVERY PERSON that ever lived.
And will continue to do so.

Whether or not you believe this or not is irrelevant because it's the truth.

Calvinists, for some reason, want to believe that they have §God all to themselves....
but NO.
God is for EVERYONE who wishes to be saved.

Read Romans 1:18-20 until you grasp what it is saying.

Romans 2 will be helpful too.

Through nature that there is a God, yes, savifically no. Millions have never heard the gospel and millions died never hearing the gospel. Until you address that fact you will remain in your ignorance.

 

[GodsGrace]

You dodge my question as I suspected you would.

I either dodged your very very difficult question which I just could not answer.....
or
You don't seem to understand my reply.

 

[GodsGrace]

Through nature that there is a God, yes, savifically no. Millions have never heard the gospel and millions died never hearing the gospel. Until you address that fact you will remain in your ignorance.

Thanks Presby.
Your replies are so §Christian-like.

Let me try again to show you what scripture teaches...
which is a bit different than what you learn from your Calvinist preacher:


Romans 1:18-20 For the 4th time, maybe more...
18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men who suppress the truth in unrighteousness,
19 because that which is known about God is evident within them; for God made it evident to them.
20 For since the creation of the wor
ld His invisible attributes, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood through what has been made, so that they are without excuse.


I understand that the above goes against what your calvinist preacher preaches,
but we must make up our mind whether to agree with our calvinist preacher
or
whether to agree with what scripture teaches.

Now, after you've read Romans 1:18-20 could you answer the following question?:

WHAT does this mean: SO THAT THEY ARE WITHOUT EXCUSE?
WHY are they WITHOUT EXCUSE?
WHO are "they"?

 

[Presby02]

I either dodged your very very difficult question which I just could not answer.....
or
You don't seem to understand my reply.

I understand your reply and it's a lame attempt at dodging my question.

 

[GodsGrace]

HOW DOES A PERSON ENSLAVED TO SIN MAKE SUCH A RIGHTEOUS DECISION by his enslaved will?

The above was addressed to @MTMattie
but....

Because Ted...
§We present OURSELVES to the one whom we wish to serve...

Romans 6:16
16 Do you not know that when you present yourselves to someone as slaves for obedience, you are slaves of the one whom you obey, either of sin resulting in death, or of obedience resulting in righteousness?


Christianity believes man has free will.
Paul taught that man has free will.

We present OURSELVES to the one we wish to serve.
God does not obligate us one way or the other.

I thought you believed in free will.
I thought you believed that man become lost at his first sin.
Isn't this free will?
Isn't sinning OUR CHIOCE?
Or do you believe as Calvinists do....that God decrees us to sin.

 

[Presby02]

Thanks Presby.
Your replies are so §Christian-like.

Let me try again to show you what scripture teaches...
which is a bit different than what you learn from your Calvinist preacher:


Romans 1:18-20 For the 4th time, maybe more...
18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men who suppress the truth in unrighteousness,
19 because that which is known about God is evident within them; for God made it evident to them.
20 For since the creation of the wor
ld His invisible attributes, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood through what has been made, so that they are without excuse.


I understand that the above goes against what your calvinist preacher preaches,
but we must make up our mind whether to agree with our calvinist preacher
or
whether to agree with what scripture teaches.

Now, after you've read Romans 1:18-20 could you answer the following question?:

WHAT does this mean: SO THAT THEY ARE WITHOUT EXCUSE?
WHY are they WITHOUT EXCUSE?
WHO are "they"?

Again, it is about the existence of God. Verse 19, "what can be known about God", it has nothing to do with the gospel. Verse 20 further elaborates further.

Can someone who never hears the gospel be saved?

 

[GodsGrace]

Again, it is about the existence of God. Verse 19, "what can be known about God", it has nothing to do with the gospel. Verse 20 further elaborates further.

Can someone who never hears the gospel be saved?

Looks like you'll have to read §Romans 1:18-20 until you grasp the concept.
Looks like, yes, EVERYONE who ever lived can reply to God.

Even those who NEVER HEARD THE GOSPEL message.

Please reply to my 3 questions:

WHAT does this mean: SO THAT THEY ARE WITHOUT EXCUSE?
WHY are they WITHOUT EXCUSE?
WHO are "they"?


If you correctly reply to those 3 questions,
a whole new world will be opened up to you.

Notice the title of this thread: GOD'S INABILITY TO SAVE.

IOW,,,,God is NOT unable to save.
God can save anyone.
It's not up to Calvinism to decide who God saves or not....
God will let us know who is saved...
and He has done this troughout scripture.

Now...back to Romans 1:18-20
Please reply to my 3 questions.


BTW,,,I NEVER got a reply to my question as to why God does not save everyone
IF Paul states that God DESIRES to save everyone.

Yes. Some replies will repudiate Calvinism.
It's tough.

 

[Selah]

Looks like you'll have to read §Romans 1:18-20 until you grasp the concept.
Looks like, yes, EVERYONE who ever lived can reply to God.

Even those who NEVER HEARD THE GOSPEL message.

Please reply to my 3 questions:

WHAT does this mean: SO THAT THEY ARE WITHOUT EXCUSE?
WHY are they WITHOUT EXCUSE?
WHO are "they"?


If you correctly reply to those 3 questions,
a whole new world will be opened up to you.

Notice the title of this thread: GOD'S INABILITY TO SAVE.

IOW,,,,God is NOT unable to save.
God can save anyone.
It's not up to Calvinism to decide who God saves or not....
God will let us know who is saved...
and He has done this troughout scripture.

Now...back to Romans 1:18-20
Please reply to my 3 questions.


BTW,,,I NEVER got a reply to my question as to why God does not save everyone
IF Paul states that God DESIRES to save everyone.

Yes. Some replies will repudiate Calvinism.
It's tough.

I believe some folks are Elect and some are nonElect. But today (after the foundation of the world), everyone (whosoever) has free will and can choose to repent and believe in Christ. That’s why Jesus came.
John 3:16-17 (NKJV) 16 “For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. 17 “For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved.