civic
Well-known member
Projecting since you cannot defend your beliefs
Free-willer Straw Man Argument
- Thread starter The Rogue Tomato
- Start date
civic
Well-known member
I know how desperate lol
And you cannot refute them.
civic
Well-known member
I do every day
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I know it as we had our share of disagreements and can verify what was stated
The instrumental cause as even Calvin admit
Faith as an Instrumental cause
John 3:16 (KJV 1900) — 16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
The efficient (primary) cause of our eternal salvation the Scripture uniformly proclaims to be the mercy and free love of the heavenly Father towards us; the material cause to be Christ, with the obedience by which he purchased righteousness for us; and what can the formal or instrumental cause be but faith? John includes the three in one sentence when he says, “God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish but have everlasting life,” (John 3:16).
That is not the word of an Arminian or a provisionist but of
John Calvin, Institutes of the Christian Religion (Bellingham, WA: Logos Bible Software, 1997).
Similarly The Calvinist Theologian Berkouwer states
3. TO FAITH. Faith is the mediate or instrumental cause of sanctification as well as of justification. It does not merit sanctification any more than it does justification, but it unites us to Christ and keeps us in touch with Him as the Head of the new humanity, who is the source of the new life within us, and also of our progressive sanctification, through the operation of the Holy Spirit
L. Berkhof, Systematic Theology (Grand Rapids, MI: Wm. B. Eerdmans publishing co., 1938), 537.
There is not just a correlation between faith and justification, faith and regeneration , faith and salvation
There is a causal relationship even Calvinist theologians have affirmed
civic
Well-known member
Yes we did my friend and you held your own in spite of all the mocking and ad homs.
You were more kind than most others and the only one willing to work together on shared beliefs
Frank Russell
Well-known member
It's because Stoicism is so passe, but Stoicism isn't Christianity either.
Bronson
Active member
The first step in the serious discussion of any issue ought to be a clear definition of the issue. This OP falls short in explaining what in mean by the freedom of the will.
The noun will is closely associated with, and its meaning is involved with, other words like desire, purpose, intention, determination, and decision. To say that a person has a will is to say that a person experiences purpose, intends things, and makes decisions.
When when we use the term free will we are talking about the notion that choices are involved. Free Will is a way of saying that a person is capable of making decisions, that a person can choose between two or more alternatives.
There is nothing "tutti fruitti" as you say about free will.
In the New Testament, sinners are commanded over and over to “repent” and “believe” (Matthew 3:2; 4:17; Acts 3:19; 1 John 3:23). Every call to repent is a call to choose. The command to believe assumes that the hearer can choose to obey the command. Got?
Explain your logic. Are you seriously saying that election onto salvation is unconditional to the means of regeneration and resurrection? It has to be for you to believe that election unto salvation is unconditional. Explain to us how that wacky unconditional logic of yours works.
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God does both.
He gives life (regenerates) those with faith and he resurrects the dead
@Presby02 , being a Calvinist and believing that election unto salvation is unconditional, must prove that his proposed means of regeneration and resurrection are not conditions/requirements of election onto salvation. In other words, Presby is caught between a rock and a hard place. That's typical of Calvinists. They never weigh the implications of their wacky statements.
civic
Well-known member
Cognitive dissonance at work@Presby02 , being a Calvinist and believing that election unto salvation is unconditional, must prove that his proposed means of regeneration and resurrection are not conditions/requirements of election onto salvation. In other words, Presby is caught between a rock and a hard place. That's typical of Calvinists. They never weigh the implications of their wacky statements.
Frank Russell
Well-known member
Oh wow, another hint of universalism. Was there anyone God did not foreknow?
The Rogue Tomato
Well-known member
Apparently, since he said, "Depart from me, I never knew you."
civic
Well-known member
God knows if you will believe Him or reject Him. As Romans 8 says those whom He fore knows He predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son.
Frank Russell
Well-known member
I knew someone would quote that.
