Favoritism in Unconditional Election

Rockson said:
What a weird way though that you Calvinist swing the use of grammar around to accommodate your belief.

Wonder why Jesus didn't use the word CAUSE in the verse you stated. He wasn't shy in using the word cause in other places of the gospels about other subjects.

So why didn't he say this is the work of God that he causes you to believe in him whom he has sent? It would have laid to rest any question about it and you Calvinists would be able to exclaim, "See there! That's what he says he does!" He didn't though. So therefore to readers at least don't be moved by a contrived theology that throws everyday use of language out of whack.

The potential followers of Christ asked him what work or what are we to do to do the work of God and he told them.....The work of God for you is to believe in the one he has sent. Weigh the serious error that Calvinists are making with this by implying there's NOTHING you need to do and that is to believe and act and receive what Christ has for you. If you allow such Calvinists to neutralize you from doing so the cost will be VERY HIGH in YOU not obeying Christ.
Click to expand...
Yes, Calvinism is quite dependent on spinning verses to establish their doctrine. One has to wonder why the bible never comes out and plainly states what Calvinists believe
 
The Rogue Tomato said:
The whole verse is "This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent." Him == Christ
Click to expand...
And this is the context

John 6:26–35 (NASB 2020) — 26 Jesus answered them and said, “Truly, truly, I say to you, you seek Me, not because you saw signs, but because you ate some of the loaves and were filled. 27 Do not work for the food that perishes, but for the food that lasts for eternal life, which the Son of Man will give you, for on Him the Father, God, has set His seal.” 28 Therefore they said to Him, “What are we to do, so that we may accomplish the works of God?” 29 Jesus answered and said to them, “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent.” 30 So they said to Him, “What then are You doing as a sign, so that we may see, and believe You? What work are You performing? 31 Our fathers ate the manna in the wilderness; as it is written: ‘HE GAVE THEM BREAD OUT OF HEAVEN TO EAT.’ ” 32 Jesus then said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, it is not Moses who has given you the bread out of heaven, but it is My Father who gives you the true bread out of heaven. 33 For the bread of God is that which comes down out of heaven and gives life to the world.” 34 Then they said to Him, “Lord, always give us this bread.” 35 Jesus said to them, “I am the bread of life; the one who comes to Me will not be hungry, and the one who believes in Me will never be thirsty.

It is plain he is telling his audience they must believe-this is what God requires of them

and even a number of Calvinist sources affirm

John Calvin: “People who infer from this passage that faith is God’s gift are mistaken, for Christ does not show here what God produces in us, but what God wants and requires from us.” (The Crossway Classic Commentaries: John; Crossway Books; Wheaton, IL; 1994, p.393)



This is the work of God. This is the thing that will be acceptable to God, or which you are to do in order to be saved. Jesus did not tell them they had nothing to do, or that they were to sit down and wait, but that there was a work to perform, and that was a duty that was imperative. It was to believe on the Messiah. This is the work which sinners are to do; and doing this they will be saved, for Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth, Ro. 10:4.11 Albert Barnes, Notes on the New Testament: Luke & John (ed. Robert Frew; London: Blackie & Son, 1884–1885), 244.

Even the notes to the Geneva bible

Verse 29
5. Men torment themselves in vain when they try to please God without faith.
g. That is, this is the work that God requires, that you believe in me, and therefore he calls them back to faith.
Geneva Bible Notes (1599). (Bellingham, WA: Logos Bible Software, 2003), Jn 6:28–29.

Jesus sets them straight: The work of God—i.e. what God requires—is faith. This is not faith in the abstract, an existential trust without a coherent object. Rather, they must believe in the one [God] has sent[1] Pillar New Tetament commentary D.A. Carson

John_6:28-29. Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God? Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, —

The chief work, the greatest work which you can do. Spurgeon commentary






[1] D. A. Carson, The Gospel according to John (The Pillar New Testament Commentary; Leicester, England; Grand Rapids, MI: Inter-Varsity Press; W.B. Eerdmans, 1991), 285.
 
TomL said:
You ignore scripture

That is an assumption contrary to scripture

Romans 4:1–16 (ESV) — 1 What then shall we say was gained by Abraham, our forefather according to the flesh? 2 For if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about, but not before God. 3 For what does the Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it was counted to him as righteousness.” 4 Now to the one who works, his wages are not counted as a gift but as his due. 5 And to the one who does not work but believes in him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is counted as righteousness, 6 just as David also speaks of the blessing of the one to whom God counts righteousness apart from works: 7 “Blessed are those whose lawless deeds are forgiven, and whose sins are covered; 8 blessed is the man against whom the Lord will not count his sin.” 9 Is this blessing then only for the circumcised, or also for the uncircumcised? For we say that faith was counted to Abraham as righteousness. 10 How then was it counted to him? Was it before or after he had been circumcised? It was not after, but before he was circumcised. 11 He received the sign of circumcision as a seal of the righteousness that he had by faith while he was still uncircumcised. The purpose was to make him the father of all who believe without being circumcised, so that righteousness would be counted to them as well, 12 and to make him the father of the circumcised who are not merely circumcised but who also walk in the footsteps of the faith that our father Abraham had before he was circumcised. 13 For the promise to Abraham and his offspring that he would be heir of the world did not come through the law but through the righteousness of faith. 14 For if it is the adherents of the law who are to be the heirs, faith is null and the promise is void. 15 For the law brings wrath, but where there is no law there is no transgression. 16 That is why it depends on faith, in order that the promise may rest on grace and be guaranteed to all his offspring—not only to the adherent of the law but also to the one who shares the faith of Abraham, who is the father of us all,
Click to expand...
If its of conditions you must meet, its no longer grace !
 
Rockson said:
What a weird way though that you Calvinist swing the use of grammar around to accommodate your belief.

Wonder why Jesus didn't use the word CAUSE in the verse you stated. He wasn't shy in using the word cause in other places of the gospels about other subjects.

So why didn't he say this is the work of God that he causes you to believe in him whom he has sent? It would have laid to rest any question about it and you Calvinists would be able to exclaim, "See there! That's what he says he does!" He didn't though. So therefore to readers at least don't be moved by a contrived theology that throws everyday use of language out of whack.

The potential followers of Christ asked him what work or what are we to do to do the work of God and he told them.....The work of God for you is to believe in the one he has sent. Weigh the serious error that Calvinists are making with this by implying there's NOTHING you need to do and that is to believe and act and receive what Christ has for you. If you allow such Calvinists to neutralize you from doing so the cost will be VERY HIGH in YOU not obeying Christ.
Click to expand...
Yes they conflate Jesus words. They turn them just the exact opposite of what Jesus was teaching.
 
brightfame52 said:
If its of conditions you must meet, its no longer grace ! Its works
Click to expand...
Strawman . Faith and humility are always required by God as the starting point in a relationship with Him. It’s been that was ever since the fall. Read Hebrews 11 sometime about the history of man’s faith in God.

Next
 
brightfame52 said:
If its of conditions you must meet, its no longer grace !
Click to expand...
How is it scripture contradicts your claim?


Romans 4:1–16 (ESV) — 1 What then shall we say was gained by Abraham, our forefather according to the flesh? 2 For if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about, but not before God. 3 For what does the Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it was counted to him as righteousness.” 4 Now to the one who works, his wages are not counted as a gift but as his due. 5 And to the one who does not work but believes in him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is counted as righteousness, 6 just as David also speaks of the blessing of the one to whom God counts righteousness apart from works: 7 “Blessed are those whose lawless deeds are forgiven, and whose sins are covered; 8 blessed is the man against whom the Lord will not count his sin.” 9 Is this blessing then only for the circumcised, or also for the uncircumcised? For we say that faith was counted to Abraham as righteousness. 10 How then was it counted to him? Was it before or after he had been circumcised? It was not after, but before he was circumcised. 11 He received the sign of circumcision as a seal of the righteousness that he had by faith while he was still uncircumcised. The purpose was to make him the father of all who believe without being circumcised, so that righteousness would be counted to them as well, 12 and to make him the father of the circumcised who are not merely circumcised but who also walk in the footsteps of the faith that our father Abraham had before he was circumcised. 13 For the promise to Abraham and his offspring that he would be heir of the world did not come through the law but through the righteousness of faith. 14 For if it is the adherents of the law who are to be the heirs, faith is null and the promise is void. 15 For the law brings wrath, but where there is no law there is no transgression. 16 That is why it depends on faith, in order that the promise may rest on grace and be guaranteed to all his offspring—not only to the adherent of the law but also to the one who shares the faith of Abraham, who is the father of us all,
 

Similar threads

brightfame52
Doctrine of Unconditional Election
71 72 73
Replies
1K
Views
15K
brightfame52
brightfame52
P
Glorification in Election
2 3
Replies
57
Views
915
Administrator
Administrator
civic
What Calvinists and Arminians have in common
Replies
3
Views
128
Rockerduck
R
Diserner
The Mystery of Election from this Classical Arminian Point of View
Replies
19
Views
519
sethproton
S
civic
The suppression of reason, logic, common sense and morality in Calvinism
13 14 15
Replies
297
Views
3K
TomL
T
Back
Top Bottom