praise_yeshua
Well-known member
Theological twins.....
Favoritism in Unconditional Election
- Thread starter praise_yeshua
- Start date
Theological twins.....
Bob Carabbio
Well-known member
That's the standard "Uneducated Christians are too stupid to know what the bible says" / "The bible isn't even accurate" foolishness.
So is 1 John 2:27 a LIE???
Bob Carabbio
Well-known member
The same "Church of Jesus Christ" that has existed since John 20:22. It's that Body composed EXCLUSIVELY of Born Again Christians both alive, and physically dead that it the Bride to be of CHrist at the end of the age.
NO visible religio/political Denominational system in earth is the "embodyment" of that church. Some are closer to it than others. Personally I'm pretty happy with the Assemblies of God denomination which isn't "the ONE CHURCH of Jesus Christ", but has an acceptable collection of beliefs, as Denominations go.
Never bothered with it. Just another "Theological construct", of no real practical value.
Bob Carabbio
Well-known member
n/p
Bob Carabbio
Well-known member
SO investigating the Greek is often a good idea (as in the last chapter of John, where the translation obliterates the meaning of Jesus' interaction with Peter).
The Rogue Tomato
Well-known member
Exactly! And there are tenses that would be too weird to translate directly into English. For example, Ephesians 2, "it is by grace you are saved". In the Greek, it's "it is by grace you are having been saved". I still have trouble wrapping my head around that.
In context
Romans 11:1–6 (KJV 1900) — 1 I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin. 2 God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew. Wot ye not what the scripture saith of Elias? how he maketh intercession to God against Israel, saying, 3 Lord, they have killed thy prophets, and digged down thine altars; and I am left alone, and they seek my life. 4 But what saith the answer of God unto him? I have reserved to myself seven thousand men, who have not bowed the knee to the image of Baal. 5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace. 6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.
brightfame52
Well-known member
The U stands for Unconditional Election, its of Grace, stated stated here as election of grace Rom 11:5-6
5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.
6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then it is no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.
Its not found here
In context
Romans 11:1–6 (KJV 1900) — 1 I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin. 2 God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew. Wot ye not what the scripture saith of Elias? how he maketh intercession to God against Israel, saying, 3 Lord, they have killed thy prophets, and digged down thine altars; and I am left alone, and they seek my life. 4 But what saith the answer of God unto him? I have reserved to myself seven thousand men, who have not bowed the knee to the image of Baal. 5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace. 6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.
or anywhere
brightfame52
Well-known member
The U stands for Unconditional Election, its of Grace, stated here as election of grace Rom 11:5-6
5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.
6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then it is no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.
praise_yeshua
Well-known member
The Remnant are replacements for those Calvinists that endlessly disobey God. (Not saying Calvinists are along in this. They are not. However, they are included).
Elijah thought he was alone. He was dead wrong.
1Ki 18:22 Then said Elijah unto the people, I, even I only, remain a prophet of the LORD; but Baal's prophets are four hundred and fifty men.
1Ki 19:18 Yet I have left me seven thousand in Israel, all the knees which have not bowed unto Baal, and every mouth which hath not kissed him.
You could learn something from Elijah.
Far too many people believe their isn't anyone else to choose.
brightfame52
Well-known member
The U stands for Unconditional Election, its of Grace, stated here as election of grace Rom 11:5-6
5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.
6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then it is no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.
If its of conditions you must meet, its no longer grace !
praise_yeshua
Well-known member
Same ole same ole with you... Repeat yourself and pretend I didn't say anything.
brightfame52
Well-known member
If its of conditions you must meet, its no longer grace !
So if I acknowledge and accept (the condition) a graceful present, it's no longer a graceful present?
That's the idea you're promoting.
praise_yeshua
Well-known member
Is salvation conditioned upon Christ for you?
As I have said repeatedly. Your position glorifies YOU. Not Christ.
You didn't think about Christ before you wrote that nonsense. You thought about yourself.
That is an assumption contrary to scripture
Romans 4:1–16 (ESV) — 1 What then shall we say was gained by Abraham, our forefather according to the flesh? 2 For if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about, but not before God. 3 For what does the Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it was counted to him as righteousness.” 4 Now to the one who works, his wages are not counted as a gift but as his due. 5 And to the one who does not work but believes in him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is counted as righteousness, 6 just as David also speaks of the blessing of the one to whom God counts righteousness apart from works: 7 “Blessed are those whose lawless deeds are forgiven, and whose sins are covered; 8 blessed is the man against whom the Lord will not count his sin.” 9 Is this blessing then only for the circumcised, or also for the uncircumcised? For we say that faith was counted to Abraham as righteousness. 10 How then was it counted to him? Was it before or after he had been circumcised? It was not after, but before he was circumcised. 11 He received the sign of circumcision as a seal of the righteousness that he had by faith while he was still uncircumcised. The purpose was to make him the father of all who believe without being circumcised, so that righteousness would be counted to them as well, 12 and to make him the father of the circumcised who are not merely circumcised but who also walk in the footsteps of the faith that our father Abraham had before he was circumcised. 13 For the promise to Abraham and his offspring that he would be heir of the world did not come through the law but through the righteousness of faith. 14 For if it is the adherents of the law who are to be the heirs, faith is null and the promise is void. 15 For the law brings wrath, but where there is no law there is no transgression. 16 That is why it depends on faith, in order that the promise may rest on grace and be guaranteed to all his offspring—not only to the adherent of the law but also to the one who shares the faith of Abraham, who is the father of us all,
The Rogue Tomato
Well-known member
Exactly. That's why it is "This is the work of God" and not "This is the work God requires".
except script refutes that assumption
Romans 4:1–16 (ESV) — 1 What then shall we say was gained by Abraham, our forefather according to the flesh? 2 For if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about, but not before God. 3 For what does the Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it was counted to him as righteousness.” 4 Now to the one who works, his wages are not counted as a gift but as his due. 5 And to the one who does not work but believes in him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is counted as righteousness, 6 just as David also speaks of the blessing of the one to whom God counts righteousness apart from works: 7 “Blessed are those whose lawless deeds are forgiven, and whose sins are covered; 8 blessed is the man against whom the Lord will not count his sin.” 9 Is this blessing then only for the circumcised, or also for the uncircumcised? For we say that faith was counted to Abraham as righteousness. 10 How then was it counted to him? Was it before or after he had been circumcised? It was not after, but before he was circumcised. 11 He received the sign of circumcision as a seal of the righteousness that he had by faith while he was still uncircumcised. The purpose was to make him the father of all who believe without being circumcised, so that righteousness would be counted to them as well, 12 and to make him the father of the circumcised who are not merely circumcised but who also walk in the footsteps of the faith that our father Abraham had before he was circumcised. 13 For the promise to Abraham and his offspring that he would be heir of the world did not come through the law but through the righteousness of faith. 14 For if it is the adherents of the law who are to be the heirs, faith is null and the promise is void. 15 For the law brings wrath, but where there is no law there is no transgression. 16 That is why it depends on faith, in order that the promise may rest on grace and be guaranteed to all his offspring—not only to the adherent of the law but also to the one who shares the faith of Abraham, who is the father of us all,
brightfame52
Well-known member
If its of conditions you must meet, its no longer grace !So if I acknowledge and accept (the condition) a graceful present, it's no longer a graceful present?
That's the idea you're promoting.
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