Excellent Discussion on OSAS

[Dizerner]

Monergism is the logical outworking of all this OSAS whining about "contributing" to salvation.

But they want to have their free will cake at the same time.

 

[mailmandan]

So you believe that we as Christians must continue to keep His commandments so that we continue to know Him?

You must not confuse cause and effect.

 

[mailmandan]

No such word or term in scripture as “nominal Christian”.

This is just another man made word to prop up your man made theology.

Please post the scripture that uses nominal Christian.

John clearly states the one who says, "I have come to know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. But according to you, the one who does not keep His commandments and is a liar and the truth is not in him is a genuine Christian anyway who knows the Lord?

Keeping His commandments is the demonstrative evidence that we have come to know Him. (1 John 2:3) Failing to keep His commandments demonstrates otherwise. (1 John 2:4) Hence, "nominal" or pseudo Christian. This is not hard to understand. It's just hard for you to accept.

 

[mailmandan]

Keeping His commandments is how we remain in Christ.

Very simple.

Now he who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. And by this we know that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us. 1 John 3:24

No need to add to scripture with unbiblical words and phrases such as type 2 works salvation, or nominal Christian or works at the back door.

You either believe and obey what scripture says or you don’t.

The choice is yours.

You don't keep yourself saved by keeping His commandments.Your eisegesis culminates in salvation by works/works righteousness. You confuse descriptive passages of scripture with prescriptive passages of scripture. Believing in Him saves (Acts 10:43; 13:38-39; 16:31 etc..) and obedience which "follows" is works and we are saved by grace through faith, not works.(Ephesians 2:8,9) I made my choice. I believe the gospel. (Romans 1:16; 1 Corinthians 15:1-4)

 

[armylngst]

Thats exactly what Paul wrote right here in Eph 2:8

8 For by grace are ye saved through[the] faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

Again, the Greek grammar does not allow for it. What is always HILARIOUS about this kind of thing, is there is more than enough scripture in the Bible to prove Calvinism. Hence, I asked if terminology in which you are wrong, is a hill worth dying on?

Again Faith has the definite article in the original, so its not the sinners faith. Both Grace and Faith are feminine and have the definite article, the emphasis is the Faith comes with the Grace the all the Gift of God.

I think you misunderstand what faith is. There is no action in faith. Hence James says, faith without works is DEAD. If faith is as you say it is, how can it be dead? Would God give anyone dead faith? Faith is a RESULT, a REACTION to the grace. For by grace you have been saved, full stop. Solo gratia. You then have, through faith. Solo fido. However, it doesn't say by faith, as though faith is some kind of action. It is through faith. A conduit, not an action. It is there or it is not there. Works is like the matter that makes up a conduit. If there is no matter, there is no conduit. If there are no works, there is no faith. The same cannot be said about grace. Grace just is. Grace is given/granted by God. Faith is the reaction to that. Hence false conversion. The flash of faith that isn't rooted in anything, next to the flash of faith that takes root in the heart of man, and results in works in keeping with the faith.

Then in Acts 18:27 Paul wrote "them which believed through [because of] Grace

Where is faith here?

And when he was disposed to pass into Achaia, the brethren wrote, exhorting the disciples to receive him: who, when he was come, helped them much which had believed through grace:

Where is the faith?

This is consistent bible teaching on the origin of Faith, believing.

That is why Paul doesn't mention it anywhere, right? One believes because of faith. One cannot believe if one does not have faith, hence false conversion. There is a flash of faith, and when the smoke clears, the faith was either real, or a dud. How do we know? Verifying works. Again, faith is part of the package, but faith is not THE gift from God mentioned in Ephesians 2:8-9. It is speaking of salvation as a whole. Hence we don't say, there is no such thing as works based grace. There is no such thing as works based salvation.

 

[armylngst]

Faith without works is dead. "Faith Only" is dead. Can "Faith Only" save us? No, it's dead D E A D dead.

26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

Eternal life is given to those who persevere in faithfully doing good works (Rom 2:7).

7 eternal life to those who seek glory, honor, and immortality through perseverance in good works,

Nobody around here follows the works of the Law. My ancestors gave up that practice 2000 years ago. So stop with the strawmen.

Who said that he "prophesied, performed miracles, and even the demons obeyed"??? I didn't. All I said that I trusted Christ, believed in Christ, and repented of my sins. Why is that so wrong for you? Who else is going to repent for your sins? God does not repent for you, you do. Monergism is dead wrong.

So, when you approach God on the final day, just walk past Him. You saved yourself.

We sinned against God. How can we do ANYTHING that can erase that? How can we step in front of God and say, "Don't worry, I got this"? Theoretically speaking, if God didn't want to spend eternity with you, is there anything you can do about it? Any word you can give for yourself that would counter the will of God? Did you just pull grace out of thin air? Salvation is the gift of God, and not of works. There is no merit in it. There is nothing we can do, not a single work, that would grant us grace and salvation.

We sinned against God. Only God can set the terms and fulfill them. We have no standing before God other than what HE has give us. There is no we here. It is solely God who decides who He wants to spend eternity with. We have no say in the matter.

 

[armylngst]

Paul said God has allotted to each a measure of faith.

Christ said without him we can do nothing.

Why do people fight the grace of God...

Now... just figure out what that means. (Such as reading the whole passage and meditating on it.)

 

[Dizerner]

Now... just figure out what that means. (Such as reading the whole passage and meditating on it.)

Yeah.

It means.... *drumroll please*...

God has given to everyone a measure of faith.

Without Christ I can do nothing.

If your meditation reverses the plain meaning of a passage, please consider you are being deceived.

 

[synergy]

So, when you approach God on the final day, just walk past Him. You saved yourself.

We sinned against God. How can we do ANYTHING that can erase that? How can we step in front of God and say, "Don't worry, I got this"? Theoretically speaking, if God didn't want to spend eternity with you, is there anything you can do about it? Any word you can give for yourself that would counter the will of God? Did you just pull grace out of thin air? Salvation is the gift of God, and not of works. There is no merit in it. There is nothing we can do, not a single work, that would grant us grace and salvation.

We sinned against God. Only God can set the terms and fulfill them. We have no standing before God other than what HE has give us. There is no we here. It is solely God who decides who He wants to spend eternity with. We have no say in the matter.

There is nothing we can do? We can't trust Christ, believe in Christ, and repent of my sins? Nothing? You sure? Who else is going to repent for your sins? God does not repent for you, you do. Monergism is dead wrong.

Are you a proponent of the "do nothing, be inert, and wait for the zapping" doctrine of calvinism?

 

[Eternally-Grateful]

Huh? Only God intrinsically possesses eternal life. Believers possess the gift of eternal life only as long as they abide in Christ. Those who don't will dry up and be thrown into a fire according to Vine Parable.

that's conditional life

Again, Good luck.. you want to try to earn your salvation by doing. feel free.

I laid it at the cross. and it is Gods..

He gave me rest
He gave me not a spirit of fear but of a sound mind

You may claim you have a sound mind. but that is pretty much impossible..

 

[Eternally-Grateful]

Keeping His commandments is how we remain in Christ.

then we are under law not under grace.

Very simple.

Now he who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. And by this we know that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us. 1 John 3:24


No need to add to scripture with unbiblical words and phrases such as type 2 works salvation, or nominal Christian or works at the back door.


You either believe and obey what scripture says or you don’t.


The choice is yours.

yes. If we want to produce fruit we need to abide in him. Obey Christs law of love. seek after the things of the spirit, to be sanctified

But justification is in him..

The cross purchased your freedom. don't mock the cross by rejecting it as insufficient

 

[Eternally-Grateful]

If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 1 John 1:9


It’s good to spend time with Him every day and to confess our sins and listen for His Voice to lead us in our everyday lives.

you did not answer my question

do we obey because we are saved (we love because he first loved us)
to get saved
or to stay saved.

which one or ones are correct?

 

[Eternally-Grateful]

Monergism is the logical outworking of all this OSAS whining about "contributing" to salvation.

But they want to have their free will cake at the same time.

So we put our faith and hope in the cross and the promises of God. and we want our cake at the same time?

Yet you pump your chest like the pharisee. and you want what? Approval?

 

[Eternally-Grateful]

So, when you approach God on the final day, just walk past Him. You saved yourself.

We sinned against God. How can we do ANYTHING that can erase that? How can we step in front of God and say, "Don't worry, I got this"? Theoretically speaking, if God didn't want to spend eternity with you, is there anything you can do about it? Any word you can give for yourself that would counter the will of God? Did you just pull grace out of thin air? Salvation is the gift of God, and not of works. There is no merit in it. There is nothing we can do, not a single work, that would grant us grace and salvation.

We sinned against God. Only God can set the terms and fulfill them. We have no standing before God other than what HE has give us. There is no we here. It is solely God who decides who He wants to spend eternity with. We have no say in the matter.

what if God decided he wanted to spend eternity with all his creation?

 

[Jim]

Once you have tasted the goodness of Jesus why would you want to leave that. Thats like getting out of prison doing a life with out parole sentence, then wanting to go back.

I wouldn't, but that doesn't mean that absolutely no one would ever want to do that. But more important is that God does not prevent anyone from doing that.

 

[Eternally-Grateful]

I wouldn't, but that doesn't mean that absolutely no one would ever want to do that. But more important is that God does not prevent anyone from doing that.

because no one would.

unless they never truly experienced the love of God,.

 

[Jim]

because no one would.

unless they never truly experienced the love of God,.

Says you, not God.

 

[Believer]

I wouldn't, but that doesn't mean that absolutely no one would ever want to do that. But more important is that God does not prevent anyone from doing that.

The bible says Jesus will leave the 99 to go and get that one lost Lamb. So he does prevent that. Once your His, He will never leave or forsake you. The Holy Spirit will lead us back to the Truth if we get off track.

It's also good to make yourself accountable to a close brother in Christ, if one falls into a ditch the other can help get him back on the right path.

 

[Jim]

The bible says Jesus will leave the 99 to go and get that one lost Lamb. So he does prevent that. Once your His, He will never leave or forsake you. The Holy Spirit will lead us back to the Truth if we get off track.

He will never leave or forsake you, but He does not prevent you from forsaking Him. There are many warnings in the NT urging you not to do that. If it weren't possible, those warnings would not be there.

It's also good to make yourself accountable to a close brother in Christ, if one falls into a ditch the other can help get him back on the right path.

Just be careful that the one who is in the ditch does not put you in after him.

 

[brightfame52]

Again, the Greek grammar does not allow for it. What is always HILARIOUS about this kind of thing, is there is more than enough scripture in the Bible to prove Calvinism. Hence, I asked if terminology in which you are wrong, is a hill worth dying on?

I think you misunderstand what faith is. There is no action in faith. Hence James says, faith without works is DEAD. If faith is as you say it is, how can it be dead? Would God give anyone dead faith? Faith is a RESULT, a REACTION to the grace. For by grace you have been saved, full stop. Solo gratia. You then have, through faith. Solo fido. However, it doesn't say by faith, as though faith is some kind of action. It is through faith. A conduit, not an action. It is there or it is not there. Works is like the matter that makes up a conduit. If there is no matter, there is no conduit. If there are no works, there is no faith. The same cannot be said about grace. Grace just is. Grace is given/granted by God. Faith is the reaction to that. Hence false conversion. The flash of faith that isn't rooted in anything, next to the flash of faith that takes root in the heart of man, and results in works in keeping with the faith.

Where is faith here?

Where is the faith?

That is why Paul doesn't mention it anywhere, right? One believes because of faith. One cannot believe if one does not have faith, hence false conversion. There is a flash of faith, and when the smoke clears, the faith was either real, or a dud. How do we know? Verifying works. Again, faith is part of the package, but faith is not THE gift from God mentioned in Ephesians 2:8-9. It is speaking of salvation as a whole. Hence we don't say, there is no such thing as works based grace. There is no such thing as works based salvation.

Wrong, the greek supports it, and the english, and the overall tenor of truth supports it, the Faith in Salvation conversion is not of oneself, its a Gift of God.

Man has hijacked that scripture and gives man credit for faith in Salvation instead of acknowledging its of Gods Gift.

Its actually making man out to be God, thats how serious this issue is.