synergy
Active Member
Huh? You came to that conclusion because I said that the Mosaic Law did not exist during Abraham's time? Tell us how that can possibly make sense to you.
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mailmandan
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Eternally-Grateful
Active Member
Because it is an assumption.Huh? You came to that conclusion because I said that the Mosaic Law did not exist during Abraham's time? Tell us how that can possibly make sense to you.
And your whole gospel is based on your works. Your trying to maker it appear that works of the law cannot save us. But your works can and must save you.
I am done arguing James with you. my comment is based on your gospel..
The cross has no meaning to you. Because you think you have to add works.
Jesus said it is finished. In your gospel. Jesus said I am done my part. now you do yours
Eternally-Grateful
Active Member
amen it is descriptive not prescriptive.
Eternally-Grateful
Active Member
Foster
Active Member
The clear, unmistakable and continual teaching of scripture from Genesis to Revelation is this: it is impossible for a saint to ever return to the unregenerate state he existed in prior to faith. In other words, it is impossible to lose your salvation. Once you believe, you become an adopted child of God, never to be sent away again (Eph 1:5; Gal 4:5). You were sealed forever by the Holy Spirit (Eph 4:30).
You were not saved by your actions nor thoughts, but by His will and grace (Eph 2:8). Therefore, if you did nothing to obtain your salvation, you can do nothing to lose it. It was never under your control. It is a gift.
Secondly, you cannot lose your salvation nor even "turn it in" because of what God did in your heart and spirit at the moment of salvation. He performed a permanent work in your spirit by putting the old spirit to death and bringing you a new spirit, so that you are now a new creature (2Cor 5:17). The old self is gone forever never to return. You can no more return to your old state than a butterfly can return to the cocoon and become a caterpillar again. It's not a matter of our will or desire or even our obedience. To return is simply spiritually impossible. Praise the Lord!
Regarding David's comment in Psalm 51, this is a significant psalm for several reasons. I've included a copy of the Psalm below in a modern English translation:
Then David moves next to describing spiritual regeneration (vs. 6-10), the time when God changes our hearts and brings us the gift of faith (see also Eph 2:8-9). This is the part of the salvation process where our old nature (i.e., our old spirit) is put to death and we are made a new creature in Christ (v. 10).
Pay close attention to the language of verse 6 in particular, where David describes how God plants wisdom (i.e., brings the knowledge of salvation through the Lord) in a "hidden" part of himself. His sins were blotted out (v. 9), which means they simply don't exist anymore. There is no condemnation possible for a Christian, because the entire penalty for our sins has already been paid by Christ. God can't punish us for sin, because that punishment has already been given to Christ.
Then in vs. 11-15 David expresses the hope of his salvation. David is not wondering if God will do these things; rather, he is acknowledging that these things will be the consequence of God granting him salvation. Look at the full list:
v.11 - the believer is never to be cast away
v.12 - the believer has joy in his salvation and is sustained by God's will
v.13 - the believer then teaches others and converts unbelievers
v.14 - the believer is free from the guilt of sin and praises God's righteousness
v.15 - the believer praises God
These are the consequences for a believer who has obtained salvation. As a new creature in Christ, we have these new behaviors to accompany our new nature. (Please see 1John 2 for a good teaching on this principle.)
Given all David wrote, the only way to interpret v. 11 to mean that a believer can lose salvation is to read that point of view into the text, since the author himself didn't have that thought on his mind when he wrote those verses. In fact, the author's point was completely the opposite - David was declaring the good things that come with salvation.
Verse By Verse Ministry International
You were not saved by your actions nor thoughts, but by His will and grace (Eph 2:8). Therefore, if you did nothing to obtain your salvation, you can do nothing to lose it. It was never under your control. It is a gift.
Secondly, you cannot lose your salvation nor even "turn it in" because of what God did in your heart and spirit at the moment of salvation. He performed a permanent work in your spirit by putting the old spirit to death and bringing you a new spirit, so that you are now a new creature (2Cor 5:17). The old self is gone forever never to return. You can no more return to your old state than a butterfly can return to the cocoon and become a caterpillar again. It's not a matter of our will or desire or even our obedience. To return is simply spiritually impossible. Praise the Lord!
Regarding David's comment in Psalm 51, this is a significant psalm for several reasons. I've included a copy of the Psalm below in a modern English translation:
Psalm 51:1
This psalm describes the nature of the salvation process. The psalm begins with David acknowledging his sin before God (vs. 1-5). These verses describe the repentance step of salvation, including the fact that all men are born sinful (v. 5).Then David moves next to describing spiritual regeneration (vs. 6-10), the time when God changes our hearts and brings us the gift of faith (see also Eph 2:8-9). This is the part of the salvation process where our old nature (i.e., our old spirit) is put to death and we are made a new creature in Christ (v. 10).
Pay close attention to the language of verse 6 in particular, where David describes how God plants wisdom (i.e., brings the knowledge of salvation through the Lord) in a "hidden" part of himself. His sins were blotted out (v. 9), which means they simply don't exist anymore. There is no condemnation possible for a Christian, because the entire penalty for our sins has already been paid by Christ. God can't punish us for sin, because that punishment has already been given to Christ.
Then in vs. 11-15 David expresses the hope of his salvation. David is not wondering if God will do these things; rather, he is acknowledging that these things will be the consequence of God granting him salvation. Look at the full list:
v.11 - the believer is never to be cast away
v.12 - the believer has joy in his salvation and is sustained by God's will
v.13 - the believer then teaches others and converts unbelievers
v.14 - the believer is free from the guilt of sin and praises God's righteousness
v.15 - the believer praises God
These are the consequences for a believer who has obtained salvation. As a new creature in Christ, we have these new behaviors to accompany our new nature. (Please see 1John 2 for a good teaching on this principle.)
Given all David wrote, the only way to interpret v. 11 to mean that a believer can lose salvation is to read that point of view into the text, since the author himself didn't have that thought on his mind when he wrote those verses. In fact, the author's point was completely the opposite - David was declaring the good things that come with salvation.
Verse By Verse Ministry International
Yes, I do. But I am not sure that you fully understand what it was for.
Believe in God and obey the gospel is the part you can do, for the gospel is the power of God UNTO salvation.
There are two parts to any law. One part is the command; the other part is the punishment for the command not obeyed. When Jesus said it is finished, it was that second part which was accomplished on the cross. Nothing about the first part was affected.
Nothing. However, that atonement was to those who believe in God. What you can do is believe in God and then God applies that atonement to you. That adds nothing to the work of Christ but is required for the work of Christ to be applied to you.
A believer cannot lose salvation. However, the believer can cease believing at which time he loses salvation.
Yes.
So you agree then that Christians who claim to know Him but don’t keep His commandments are liars?
mailmandan
Active Member
Eternally-Grateful
Active Member
But as many as have recieved him, to them gave he the power.
do they save themselves when they recieve?
it is finished was possibility the salvation of mankind.
the law is only a small sampling of all possible sin.. It was a tool or type to lead us to Christ.
Jesu paid for every sin not just sins of the law
and have I ever said different?
Of course not..
Eternally-Grateful
Active Member
Making up words such as “nominal” Christian is at best deceitful.
As if the Bible is a special set of instructions for special Christians. Nonsense.
He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
1 John 2:4
He refers to any person who says he has eternal life (I know Him).
Keeping His commandments is the way of love; loving God and loving His children.
For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments. And His commandments are not burdensome. 1 John 5:3
His commandments are not burdensome to born again Christians.
Now he who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. And by this we know that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us.
Keeping His commandments are the way we remain in Christ.
So now you claim to be sinless?
No they do not save themselves but in receiving Him they do what is required to be ones who are saved. Had they not received him, they would not be saved. It was a choice that they made.
Mankind was not saved. Mankind was atoned for. Mankind needs to receive Him and believe in Him in order to be saved.
What else besides disobeying God, i.e., lawlessness, is a sin?
Again, what besides lawlessness is sin?
Believing is something that one does. It is a work, albeit not a work of law.
Eternally-Grateful
Active Member
So you lost your free will to believe or not when you were saved? I don't think so.
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