Excellent Discussion on OSAS

[JLB]

But according to you, the one who does not keep His commandments and is a liar and the truth is not in him is a genuine Christian anyway who knows the Lord?

Twisting my words and rearranging the words of scripture to fit your own doctrinal mindset is a sure sign of deception working in your mind.


He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
1 John 2:4


Those who say “I know Him” but do not keep His commandments are liars.

 

[JLB]

You don't keep yourself saved by keeping His commandments.

Here’s the truth from the words of scripture.

It’s evident that you are desperately trying to somehow change the meaning and rearrange what these words so plainly say because the truth of the scriptures exposes the lie you have been programmed to believe.


He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
1 John 2:4


Whoever says “I know Him” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar.

 

[JLB]

then we are under law not under grace.

Keeping His commandments is how we remain in Christ.


Here is the words of scripture, word for word that you have rejected.

• he who keeps His commandments abides in Him

Now he who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. And by this we know that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us. 1 John 3:24

 

[JLB]

you did not answer my question

do we obey because we are saved (we love because he first loved us)
to get saved
or to stay saved.

which one or ones are correct?

We obey because we love Him.

We obey because we are led by the Spirit.

If we disobey Him and don’t repent we will become lost.

Just like His sheep who wandered away and became lost.

• Moreover if your brother sins against you, go and tell him his fault between you and him alone. If he hears you, you have gained your brother.

• But if he refuses even to hear the church, let him be to you like a heathen and a tax collector.

“Moreover if your brother sins against you, go and tell him his fault between you and him alone. If he hears you, you have gained your brother. But if he will not hear, take with you one or two more, that by the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.’ And if he refuses to hear them, tell it to the church. But if he refuses even to hear the church, let him be to you like a heathen and a tax collector.
Matthew 18:15-17

 

[mailmandan]

Twisting my words and rearranging the words of scripture to fit your own doctrinal mindset is a sure sign of deception working in your mind.

He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
1 John 2:4

Those who say “I know Him” but do not keep His commandments are liars.

My response ended with a question mark and was in response to your comment about no such word or term in scripture as “nominal Christian”. So, if there are no "nominal" Christians in scripture then the only other conclusion in 1 John 2:4 would be they were genuine Christians (which obviously they were not). That was my point. There is no need for you to get bent out of shape and falsely accuse me of deception. What does that say about your mindset?

Obedience to God after we have been saved through faith does not bring about justification (which comes by faith in Jesus Christ alone - Romans 5:1) but obedience as a pattern of life/practicing righteousness (1 John 2:3; 1 John 3:7-10) does give evidence that one has been born of God. To know Him involves a personal relationship with Him that transforms our behavior. Simple.

 

[Eternally-Grateful]

Says you, not God.

Then God does not trust himself.

and you must live in fear.

either way. John said they were never of us. if they were they never would have departed (become an unbeliever) but they departed to prove they were never of us.

An antichrist denys christ in unbelief.

if they were never of us. they were never saved.

they left. because the never experienced Gods true love in salvation. and lost the faith they claimed they had. because nothing happened.

 

[Eternally-Grateful]

Twisting my words and rearranging the words of scripture to fit your own doctrinal mindset is a sure sign of deception working in your mind.


He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
1 John 2:4


Those who say “I know Him” but do not keep His commandments are liars.

one was saved

one was not

none of them lost salvation

 

[Eternally-Grateful]

Here’s the truth from the words of scripture.

It’s evident that you are desperately trying to somehow change the meaning and rearrange what these words so plainly say because the truth of the scriptures exposes the lie you have been programmed to believe.


He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
1 John 2:4


Whoever says “I know Him” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar.

Yes

If I know him (I am saved) I keep his commands (because he made me into a new creature)

if I do not know him (I have not been saved) Then I do not keep his commands. because I am left in my flesh and I serve self.

 

[Eternally-Grateful]

Keeping His commandments is how we remain in Christ.

Under law, not under grace

Here is the words of scripture, word for word that you have rejected.

• he who keeps His commandments abides in Him

Now he who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. And by this we know that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us. 1 John 3:24

Yes.

And what do we do when we abide in him? Produce fruit.

Again, your putting yourself under law. trying to get saved by works..

You will not make it.. You will fail

 

[Eternally-Grateful]

We obey because we love Him.

We obey because we are led by the Spirit.

If we disobey Him and don’t repent we will become lost.

so you just admited you obey to stay saved.

Thank you

You are in error

Just like His sheep who wandered away and became lost.

• Moreover if your brother sins against you, go and tell him his fault between you and him alone. If he hears you, you have gained your brother.

• But if he refuses even to hear the church, let him be to you like a heathen and a tax collector.

“Moreover if your brother sins against you, go and tell him his fault between you and him alone. If he hears you, you have gained your brother. But if he will not hear, take with you one or two more, that by the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.’ And if he refuses to hear them, tell it to the church. But if he refuses even to hear the church, let him be to you like a heathen and a tax collector.
Matthew 18:15-17

Yes. It does not mean they lost salvation. they lost the right to have fellowship.

Your under law my friend. i will pray for you.. Because you can not have any hope under law.

 

[synergy]

that's conditional life

You're gravely mistaken to think that God possesses conditional life. God is eternal with eternal life. Eternal life is given to us on condition that we abide in Christ. To say otherwise is to reject the Vine Parable.

Again, Good luck.. you want to try to earn your salvation by doing. feel free.
I laid it at the cross. and it is Gods..
He gave me rest
He gave me not a spirit of fear but of a sound mind
You may claim you have a sound mind. but that is pretty much impossible..

Since you reject the Vine Parable, of course it is impossible for you to understand. Your presuppositions keep blinding you to the truth.

 

[Eternally-Grateful]

You're gravely mistaken to think that God possesses conditional life.

I do not think God posseses it

You think you have it.

God is eternal with eternal life. Eternal life is given to us on condition that we abide in Christ. To say otherwise is to reject the Vine Parable.

No. God gave us eternal life based on the cross and us recieving his gift in faith/.

You can not earn eternal life. if you could. by how righteous you are. Christ died in vein, you could save yourself

Since you reject the Vine Parable, of course it is impossible for you to understand. Your presuppositions keep blinding you to the truth.

blah blah blah

I don;t reject it. I reject your interpretation. Just like I reject your interpretation of James 2.

its not about you my friend. show some humility for a change.

 

[armylngst]

Yeah.

It means.... *drumroll please*...

God has given to everyone a measure of faith.

Without Christ I can do nothing.

If your meditation reverses the plain meaning of a passage, please consider you are being deceived.

I see you didn't go and read it.

 

[Dizerner]

I see you didn't go and read it.

Pff. Look in a mirror.

You go and read it without your presuppositions.

I've studied these verses for years.

 

[armylngst]

There is nothing we can do? We can't trust Christ, believe in Christ, and repent of my sins? Nothing? You sure?

The demons believe, but they most certainly aren't saved. James ridiculed people on this point. Why do I put it that way? He is saying that even the demons give God more credence then some in his audience. They tremble. They have the proper response of fear. So many here have no fear of God before their eyes. They will say all kinds of things that attack the nature of God, or what He has done, without thought... without fear.

Who else is going to repent for your sins? God does not repent for you, you do. Monergism is dead wrong.

Salvation is not repentance. Sure, that is part of it, but Esau sought out repentance diligently with tears, and God refused. And God stated it directly.

Are you a proponent of the "do nothing, be inert, and wait for the zapping" doctrine of calvinism?

It's too easy to lean on this idea, but that isn't how it works. Even Calvin preached to influence his congregation. Why not? No one knows who God has chosen, and even those who may appear to belong to God... we don't know their heart, or how they live at home. John didn't say that the people would automatically recognize those who don't belong to God in 1 John, but said that they show it by leaving the church. That makes it clear.

As one person put it, sometimes it is when we are beating at the gate of the narrow way, and we have given all we have, that as we crumble to the ground the gate opens and we are dragged in. Salvation is monergistic. Sanctification is, I believe, synergistic, but sanctification doesn't save. Since we sinned against God, and it is against Him that our offense stands, only God can do something/anything about it. That's as monergistic as it can get. We cannot remove the offense. We can entreat God, but that has no effect on our offense. Again, only God can remove it, and He is a holy God, so He won't remove it. Not without equal exchange. And that was something we could never, and have never provided. God provided it in His Son. However, it is not universal. It is still on God. Ephesians 1 gives an idea of what it is all about.

 

[armylngst]

Wrong, the greek supports it, and the english, and the overall tenor of truth supports it, the Faith in Salvation conversion is not of oneself, its a Gift of God.

Saying a lie over and over doesn't make it the truth. The faith in salvation is a reaction to what God has done. Hence why it is through faith, and not by faith. By faith would make it an action, a work, which it is not. Grace is the salvation, hence the verse begins "For by grace you have been saved, through faith...

Man has hijacked that scripture and gives man credit for faith in Salvation instead of acknowledging its of Gods Gift.

It is indirectly the gift of God, being a reaction to the radical transformation of our mind, and the regeneration of our spirit by God. It is a radical change to how we understand God, life, and our place in the world. It is that which drives man to their knees.

Its actually making man out to be God, thats how serious this issue is.

You are making man a robot, which is just as serious. Without God's action, there is no salvation. There may be "faith", but it won't last. It is quite possible to intellectually assent to everything in the Bible, but that does nothing for the heart. That is not salvaiton. That can, in fact, be worse, because they know the truth, yet still live outside of it.