Excellent Discussion on OSAS

[GodsGrace]

@GodsGrace

Fran, I was not even trying to be insulting, actually I was jesting with you, if that offended you, then I'm sorry. When I get tired, I do overlooked others post ~and a good nap which I take every day, helps me.

Well, I don't take naps.
And you ARE very insulting and should make an effort to STOP.

 

[GodsGrace]

He saved them before the foundation of the world.

If God saved those who loved Him before the foundation of the world...
does this mean they were born saved?

The NT doesn't teach that ANYONE is born saved,,,
but that we must come to believe in Jesus.

 

[Eternally-Grateful]

And how were we predestined? Based upon what? Rom 8:29.

based on Gods will

John 6: 39 This is the will of the Father who sent Me, that of all He has given Me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up at the last day. 40 And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that everyone who sees the Son and believes in Him may have everlasting life; and I will raise him up at the last day.”

notice here two things

1. Salvation is based on faith.. nothing else. And God saw this was going to happen
2. He will never lose anyone. hence eternal security is in tack.

 

[MTMattie]

but we are predestined

that's not a calvin teaching, its in the word

Yes it is... I copied and pasted from his beliefs along with the West Minster Confession of Faith who copied Calvin 100 years or so from his death

Calvin: Predestination

Calvin on predestination: To his glory, God determined before all creation those who would obtain eternal life, and those who would receive eternal death.

www.theologian-theology.com

Predestination According to Calvin​

According to John Calvin, predestination is God’s unchangeable decree from before the creation of the world that he would freely save some people (the elect), foreordaining them to eternal life, while the others (the reprobate) would be “barred from access to” salvation and sentenced to “eternal death (180, 184).” Calvin was careful to distinguish the predestination of individuals from the corporate election of nations such as Israel (185). He argued that an explanation of predestination is only complete when it includes the election of individuals (187).

Calvin described the basis of predestination in several ways. In general he affirmed that there is no basis for election outside of God. Referring to Eph. 1.9, Calvin noted that God purposed election “in Himself,” basing his decree of predestination on “nothing outside Himself (192).” Calvin attributed the salvation of the elect to God’s free decision to favor them (188). He variously described this as God’s “mere generosity (180, 187),” his “freely given mercy (189, 195, 211),” and the “good pleasure of His will (191; cf. Eph. 1.5).” Moreover, Calvin based the damnation of the reprobate solely in God’s decision (189, 200).

Since God’s reasons for predestination are wholly internal to his being (190), they are opaque to humanity. Ultimately, then, the basis of God’s predestination is mysterious and “utterly incomprehensible” to people (209). This mystery points to one of God’s purposes in predestination, to inspire wonder and reverence in believers (181). The things hidden in God are not to be understood by people, but rather revered in their “wonderful depth (179).” Indeed, for John Calvin the overarching purpose of predestination is for God to be glorified, both in the praise of the elect for his grace (192), and in the terrible yet glorious judgment of the reprobate (199).

Despite the mysterious basis of predestination, it is possible for the elect to be certain of their status as children of God (187). The first and seemingly most important indicator of election is what Calvin referred to as “the calling of God (3.24.4, 189).” His use of this term seems to refer to a subjective inward certainty that God has chosen a person for salvation. Elsewhere, Calvin suggested that having “knowledge of [God’s] name” and reflecting the process of sanctification are both indicators of election (189). Moreover, Calvin claimed that “communion with Christ” is sufficient proof of election (3.24.5): since we are elected in Jesus Christ (Eph. 1.4), we cannot seek the certainty of election “apart from the Son (3.24.5).” Calvin also seemed to obscurely suggest that the daily blessings received from the hand of God might rightly be perceived as an indication of election, “that secret adoption (3.24.4).” Together, these signs—the foremost being “the calling of God,”—yield certainty of salvation and tranquil peace with God (3.24.4).


John Calvin also defined his doctrine of predestination in opposition to differing views held by his contemporaries. First, Calvin took up the view that God predestines people according to his foreknowledge of their works. While Calvin affirmed the foreknowledge of God (184), he denied that God “adopts as sons those whom He foreknows will not be unworthy of His grace,” and damns those he knows will be inclined to “evil intention and ungodliness (190).” From Ephesians 1.4 he argued that one purpose of God’s election was to make his children holy. Since holiness is to be produced by election, it made no sense to Calvin to assert the reverse (191-2). Moreover, the whole point of teaching that election took place before creation (Eph. 1.4) is to demonstrate that election had nothing to do with meritorious works (191). Indeed, for Calvin another important purpose of predestination was to communicate that salvation is not based on individual merit but solely on God’s grace (191).

Second, Calvin took up the view that God elects some but condemns none (200). Calvin saw this view as “highly absurd” since it seemed to imply that the salvation received by the elect could also be attained by the non-elect as a result of “chance” or “their own effort (200).” Rejecting this inconsistent implication, Calvin asserted that the reprobate are those God intentionally neglects to choose (200). From Rom. 9.14ff, Calvin argued that the hardening of non-elect hearts is as much attributable to God as is mercy. Moreover, he noted that Paul did not shy away from this dreadful conclusion, but rather questioned the right of the clay to protest the Potter’s work (Rom. 9.20), and linked condemnation of the reprobate to God’s glory (Rom. 9.22-23). For John Calvin, election could not but stand “over against reprobation (200).”

Now if you go to the link at the bottom of this in the provided link you can read up on "
In the next article in this series I will describe why and how Calvin chose to teach predestination, and I will articulate Calvin’s defense of predestination as just."

 

[Doug Brents]

then why is the church not living in peace in the land of Canaan.

Because the "Promised Land" is not on this Earth. The land of peace which we are promised is Heaven.

He set conditions on wither they can enjoy the gift. Not on them having the gift. the promise still stands as proven in OT prophets and romans 11

What good does a gift do to you if you can't enjoy it? It does you no good at all if I gift you a car in Atlanta but you never come to pick it up. It is yours, with your name on it. All you have to do is come pick it up (condition), but if you remain in Columbus you will never have the use of it; it does you no good, and you may as well not have been given it. You are still condemned to the "hell" of walking everywhere you go.

Yes. the law was a conditional covenant.

the covenant of abraham by which we are saved was not conditional

We are not saved because of the covenant with Abraham. That was the OT, and it was removed in favor of the NT in Christ.

No.

your trying to add.

I add NOTHING. God set the conditions, not me.

faith WILL have works.

And if it has no works, then it is not really faith. Works are the soul that gives life to faith, just as the human soul gives life to our body (James 2:26).

Paul said in in eph 2: 10. and it is all over.

We are saved by grace through faith NOT WIORKS
Not by works of righteousness which we have done but byu his mercy he saved us

paul rejects your self righteous works based gospel

You misinterpret what Paul is saying. In the example of the car above, you did no work to earn the car. It was paid for 100% by me through my own generosity and concern for you. But you must come to Atlanta to get it. If you don't then it does you no good, and you remain condemned to walk. You coming to pick it up does not in any way "earn" it for you, or help pay for it, or mean that you deserve it. It simply means that you did what I commanded you to do to receive the gift I gave you.

 

[MTMattie]

based on Gods will

John 6: 39 This is the will of the Father who sent Me, that of all He has given Me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up at the last day. 40 And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that everyone who sees the Son and believes in Him may have everlasting life; and I will raise him up at the last day.”

notice here two things

1. Salvation is based on faith.. nothing else. And God saw this was going to happen
2. He will never lose anyone. hence eternal security is in tack.

Wait a minute... did you not say "we are predestined?"

Go talk to @Red Baker and have him carefully explain why the faith part comes after the predestination.

He has been teaching it for years and I am sure he can give you a condensed, not confusing, explanation.

 

[Doug Brents]

based on Gods will

Nope, based on His foreknowledge:
"For those whom He foreknew, He also predestined to become conformed to the image of His Son" Rom 8:29a

John 6: 39 This is the will of the Father who sent Me, that of all He has given Me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up at the last day. 40 And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that everyone who sees the Son and believes in Him may have everlasting life; and I will raise him up at the last day.”

notice here two things

1. Salvation is based on faith.. nothing else. And God saw this was going to happen

Yes, salvation is based on our faith; what we do in response to who and what God is and has done.

2. He will never lose anyone. hence eternal security is in tack.

Eternal security is not the same as everlasting life. Which one are you talking about here.

 

[Studyman]

@Studyman

Strawman argument Studyman ~ no one here has ever made such a statement as what you are now saying, no one. You are building a strawman and fighting him, you are not disagreeing with me, since that wicked thinking has never enter into my heart, never.

These are Your Own Words Red.

"The weak and beggarly elements are fleshly rites of the Law You think they would be sick of carnal rites of worship after all they had been through! Whether pagan religious service or rites of Moses’ Law, why seek bondage again?"

Respectfully, there is no strawman here, I am simply replying to what you preach. I agree, it was a wicked thing to promote about God and His Word. But it seem disingenuous to deny saying, what you clearly said, after being called out for it.

Is this clear? God's Moral law contained and summed up in the Ten commandments are the only true spiritual, perfect ,holy and good laws ever put forth in this world. Is this clear to you coming from me? I'm short on time, so I will only cover what I can today, and finish when I can in the next couple of days or so ~ but finish I will, the Lord willing.

Studyman, you are either confused, or being down right deceitful ~ charity demands that I chose to believe you are just confused.

And yet it is you who are promoting the philosophy that Passover, the Feasts of the Lord, God's Sabbaths, HIS Teaching regarding "What shall we eat, and what shall we drink" are the same "carnal fleshy rites" as "pagan religious service". And now are you denying having even said it, when called out on it.

No one believes what you are saying. We do teach that there were certain ordinances from the OT meant only for the Jews and that only until Christ;

The Levitical Priesthood offerings and sacrifices for sins, that were not given to Israel "in the day God led them out of Egypt".

Jer. 7: 22 For I spake not unto your fathers, nor commanded them in the day that I brought them out of the land of Egypt, concerning burnt offerings or sacrifices: 23 But this thing commanded I them, saying, Obey my voice, and I will be your God, and ye shall be my people: and walk ye in all the ways that I have commanded you, that it may be well unto you. 24 But they hearkened not, nor inclined their ear, but walked in the counsels and in the imagination of their evil heart, and went backward, and not forward.

They were "ADDED" later, "because of transgressions" 430 years after God said Isaac was blessed "Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws".

These Laws were only temporary, and were not added until 430 years after God said Isaac was blessed "Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws".

Clearly Abraham knew the Lamb of God and partook of the Passover.

Gen. 22: 8 And Abraham said, My son, God will provide himself a lamb for a burnt offering: so they went both of them together.

we also teach there are NO commandments to be kept in order to be holy/righteous before God.

Yes, that is what you preach. But I am bound to the Lord's Christ "of the Bible" and HE says;

"For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven."

And John, who I know was filled with the Spirit of Christ, told me this. " 1 John 3: 7 Little children, let "no man" deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.

So I know what "You" preach, and I know what Jesus and His Apostles teach. It's just that I don't want to be deceived. So in all respect, I not going to listen to you, rather, I'm going to listen to the Holy Spirit, whose Words I just posted for you.

There are no commandments given to add to what Christ has done in order to secured the free justification of his people, to teach that there are, is to preach another gospel that does fall under the curse of God per Paul from Galatians 1. Is this clear to you? So, if you use my name, say what I do beleive, not what you want others to believe about me, in order to push your false gospel.

I am only replying to what you Preach Red. The Gospel Paul taught is the same Gospel that was shown to Israel on their journey out of Egypt, but they didn't believe it.

The gospel you promote is not the same as Paul. I mean this respectfully. I am not the only one pointing these things out to you. As long as you want to reply to my posts, and preach down to me, I am happy to share the difference between what you preach and what Jesus and Paul teaches.

It is not an easy task to break down your web of false teachings in order to reveal to others your errors.

It seems your time would be much better spent, looking in a mirror, and proving your own philosophies and traditions. Perhaps the reason why you can't see the what others here are trying to show is, is because of the tree in your eye.

Surely a wise man would humbly consider all the evidence of the differences between your preaching, and what the Bible actually says.

Paul did rebuke Peter because he was wrong. Peter was guilty of adding to the gospel of Christ by withdrawing himself and separating himself from the Gentiles when those of the circumcision came to town.

This is true, I'm glad you changed your tune. Peter was transgressing God's Commandments by "turning again" to the beggarly elements promoted by the children of the devil. He was lucky to have a brother who risked the friendship or wrath of Peter to show him the error of his ways. And Peter was corrected, and humbly so I bet. You could learn a lot from that exchange.

Peter was eating with the Gentiles AS THEY EAT,

Talk about adding to Scriptures. Come on Red. Stop this nonsense. Peter was trying to be justified by the Law, "Eat Pork"?

Come on Red. Surely you know better than that.

yet when they of the circumcision came from Jerusalem, he withdrew from the Gentiles' table, as though he had not fellowship and eaten with them as they eat ~ as though that was necessary in order to be righteous before God...much like you do with you holding to the Jewish dietary laws.

LOL, "The gospel of Red", I have certainly heard some windys in my life. But this one is right up there.

Studyman, your view is wrong and you need to repent. So, if Paul is not rebuking Peter why does God's word say that he did?

I never said Paul didn't rebuke Peter. First you deny what your preach. Now you make up stuff that I'm saying. Perhaps a nap is in order.

 

[Manasseh]

I heard it was not a good idea to disagree with Calvin or things could get real heated. Ask Michael Servetus. He didn't have the right view about the Trinity according to Calvin who then had him burned at the stake.

 

[GodsGrace]

based on Gods will

John 6: 39 This is the will of the Father who sent Me, that of all He has given Me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up at the last day. 40 And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that everyone who sees the Son and believes in Him may have everlasting life; and I will raise him up at the last day.”

notice here two things

1. Salvation is based on faith.. nothing else. And God saw this was going to happen
2. He will never lose anyone. hence eternal security is in tack.

The above is not for me...
but your number 1......correct....salvation is based on faith.

So what happens if someone loses their faith?
Would that be apostacy?

 

[Eternally-Grateful]

Yes it is... I copied and pasted from his beliefs along with the West Minster Confession of Faith who copied Calvin 100 years or so from his death

Um. Calvin has a doctrine it calls predestination. It is in error

But predestination is in the bible

So to say it is all calvin is not true

 

[Eternally-Grateful]

Nope, based on His foreknowledge:

His foreknowledge has to conform to his will.

"For those whom He foreknew, He also predestined to become conformed to the image of His Son" Rom 8:29a

Yes, He forknew, what did he foreknow about them

Yes, salvation is based on our faith; what we do in response to who and what God is and has done.

This is works. This is not faith.. you might as well put people back under law.

Eternal security is not the same as everlasting life. Which one are you talking about here.

Eternal security is based on eternal life.

If you think salvation must be merited. You reject eternal security and eternal life. You call it conditional life

 

[Eternally-Grateful]

Because the "Promised Land" is not on this Earth.

Excuse me sir. The land God gave israel was given when moses entered it

That promise still stands.

The land of peace which we are promised is Heaven.

Yes.

So the land promised to israel has nothign to do with you or the church. Thank you for proving me right

What good does a gift do to you if you can't enjoy it? It does you no good at all if I gift you a car in Atlanta but you never come to pick it up. It is yours, with your name on it. All you have to do is come pick it up (condition), but if you remain in Columbus you will never have the use of it; it does you no good, and you may as well not have been given it. You are still condemned to the "hell" of walking everywhere you go.

They could enjoy it.. The did for many years. And scripture says they will again.

We are not saved because of the covenant with Abraham. That was the OT, and it was removed in favor of the NT in Christ.

Romans 4 says otherwise.

You are saved based on that covenant, Your not saved by the mosaic. Although from what it appears. You put yourself under that law. Because you reject grace

I add NOTHING. God set the conditions, not me.

On Salvation, yes he did

He who believes is not condmened

He who does not believe is condemned already

God wants to rescue you, will you let him, or keep tryign to save yourself

And if it has no works, then it is not really faith. Works are the soul that gives life to faith, just as the human soul gives life to our body (James 2:26).

lol. Once again, TRUE FAITH HAS WORKS.

The people james spoke to had ZERO WORKS. Because they had ZERO FAITH

You misinterpret what Paul is saying. In the example of the car above, you did no work to earn the car. It was paid for 100% by me through my own generosity and concern for you. But you must come to Atlanta to get it. If you don't then it does you no good, and you remain condemned to walk. You coming to pick it up does not in any way "earn" it for you, or help pay for it, or mean that you deserve it. It simply means that you did what I commanded you to do to receive the gift I gave you.

lol. If I have to earn it in any way, you did not pay in full.. You made a downpayment

Good luck tryign to earn the gift of life

 

[MTMattie]

Um. Calvin has a doctrine it calls predestination. It is in error

But predestination is in the bible

So to say it is all calvin is not true

Yes, but unfortunately the stupid people who wrote the West Minster Confession of Faith copied it from Calvin...

I posted what they say and there are churches to this day that follow that.

It is difficult to distinguish Calvin from predestination and especially those TULIP followers

It is one huge mess, IMO. But cannot be ignored because too many call themselves Calvinists or High Calvinists..

 

[Eternally-Grateful]

The above is not for me...
but your number 1......correct....salvation is based on faith.

So what happens if someone loses their faith?
Would that be apostacy?

They would become an antichrist.

And John said they wer enever of us. If they were of us, they would never have departed.

Once again, You do not just lose faith in something this important..

You do not one minute repent and admit you are lost. And without hope and only God can save you then get on your knees and cry out

Only to the next minute tell yourself it was all a lie you did not really believe it in the first place. There is no god..

 

[Manasseh]

The above is not for me...
but your number 1......correct....salvation is based on faith.

So what happens if someone loses their faith?
Would that be apostacy?

We help them go look for it. Leaving no stone unturned.

THEREFORE THEN, since we are surrounded by so great a cloud of witnesses [who have borne testimony to the Truth], let us strip off and throw aside every encumbrance (unnecessary weight) and that sin which so readily (deftly and cleverly) clings to and entangles us, and let us run with patient endurance and steady and active persistence the appointed course of the race that is set before us,
2 Looking away [from all that will distract] to Jesus, Who is the Leader and the Source of our faith [giving the first incentive for our belief] and is also its Finisher [bringing it to maturity and perfection]. He, for the joy [of obtaining the prize] that was set before Him, endured the cross, despising and ignoring the shame, and is now seated at the right hand of the throne of God.

3 Just think of Him Who endured from sinners such grievous opposition and bitter hostility against Himself [reckon up and consider it all in comparison with your trials], so that you may not grow weary or exhausted, losing heart and relaxing and fainting in your minds.

4 You have not yet struggled and fought agonizingly against sin, nor have you yet resisted and withstood to the point of pouring out your [own] blood.

5 And have you [completely] forgotten the divine word of appeal and encouragement in which you are reasoned with and addressed as sons? My son, do not think lightly or scorn to submit to the correction and discipline of the Lord, nor lose courage and give up and faint when you are reproved or corrected by Him;
6 For the Lord corrects and disciplines everyone whom He loves, and He punishes, even scourges, every son whom He accepts and welcomes to His heart and cherishes.

7 You must submit to and endure [correction] for discipline; God is dealing with you as with sons. For what son is there whom his father does not [thus] train and correct and discipline?

8 Now if you are exempt from correction and left without discipline in which all [of God’s children] share, then you are illegitimate offspring and not true sons [at all].
9 Moreover, we have had earthly fathers who disciplined us and we yielded [to them] and respected [them for training us]. Shall we not much more cheerfully submit to the Father of spirits and so [truly] live?

10 For [our earthly fathers] disciplined us for only a short period of time and chastised us as seemed proper and good to them; but He disciplines us for our certain good, that we may become sharers in His own holiness.
11 For the time being no discipline brings joy, but seems grievous and painful; but afterwards it yields a peaceable fruit of righteousness to those who have been trained by it [a harvest of fruit which consists in righteousness—in conformity to God’s will in purpose, thought, and action, resulting in right living and right standing with God].

12 So then, brace up and reinvigorate and set right your slackened and weakened and drooping hands and strengthen your feeble and palsied and tottering knees,
13 And cut through and make firm and plain and smooth, straight paths for your feet [yes, make them safe and upright and happy paths that go in the right direction], so that the lame and halting [limbs] may not be put out of joint, but rather may be cured.

14 Strive to live in peace with everybody and pursue that consecration and holiness without which no one will [ever] see the Lord.
15 Exercise foresight and be on the watch to look [after one another], to see that no one falls back from and fails to secure God’s grace (His unmerited favor and spiritual blessing), in order that no root of resentment (rancor, bitterness, or hatred) shoots forth and causes trouble and bitter torment, and the many become contaminated and defiled by it—
16 That no one may become guilty of sexual vice, or become a profane (godless and sacrilegious) person as Esau did, who sold his own birthright for a single meal.

17 For you understand that later on, when he wanted [to regain title to] his inheritance of the blessing, he was rejected (disqualified and set aside), for he could find no opportunity to repair by repentance [what he had done, no chance to recall the choice he had made], although he sought for it carefully with [bitter] tears.

18 For you have not come [as did the Israelites in the wilderness] to a [material] mountain that can be touched, [a mountain] that is ablaze with fire, and to gloom and darkness and a raging storm,
19 And to the blast of a trumpet and a voice whose words make the listeners beg that nothing more be said to them.

20 For they could not bear the command that was given: If even a wild animal touches the mountain, it shall be stoned to death.
21 In fact, so awful and terrifying was the [phenomenal] sight that Moses said, I am terrified (aghast and trembling with fear).
22 But rather, you have come to Mount Zion, even to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to countless multitudes of angels in festal gathering,

23 And to the church (assembly) of the Firstborn who are registered [as citizens] in heaven, and to the God Who is Judge of all, and to the spirits of the righteous (the redeemed in heaven) who have been made perfect,
24 And to Jesus, the Mediator (Go-between, Agent) of a new covenant, and to the sprinkled blood which speaks [of mercy], a better and nobler and more gracious message than the blood of Abel [which cried out for vengeance].

25 So see to it that you do not reject Him or refuse to listen to and heed Him Who is speaking [to you now]. For if they [the Israelites] did not escape when they refused to listen and heed Him Who warned and divinely instructed them [here] on earth [revealing with heavenly warnings His will], how much less shall we escape if we reject and turn our backs on Him Who cautions and admonishes [us] from heaven?

26 Then [at Mount Sinai] His voice shook the earth, but now He has given a promise: Yet once more I will shake and make tremble not only the earth but also the [starry] heavens.

27 Now this expression, Yet once more, indicates the final removal and transformation of all [that can be] shaken—that is, of that which has been created—in order that what cannot be shaken may remain and continue.

28 Let us therefore, receiving a kingdom that is firm and stable and cannot be shaken, offer to God pleasing service and acceptable worship, with modesty and pious care and godly fear and awe;
29 For our God [is indeed] a consuming fire.
Heb 12:1–29.

 

[Eternally-Grateful]

Yes, but unfortunately the stupid people who wrote the West Minster Confession of Faith copied it from Calvin...

I posted what they say and there are churches to this day that follow that.

It is difficult to distinguish Calvin from predestination and especially those TULIP followers

It is one huge mess, IMO. But cannot be ignored because too many call themselves Calvinists or High Calvinists..

I am not talking about what men said.

I am talking about the words predestine as found in scripture

You said it is not biblical.

This is not true

Their form of predestination may not be biblical I woud agree.

But predestination is there. We have to recieve it the what God intended it

 

[GodsGrace]

They would become an antichrist.

And John said they wer enever of us. If they were of us, they would never have departed.

Once again, You do not just lose faith in something this important..

You do not one minute repent and admit you are lost. And without hope and only God can save you then get on your knees and cry out

Only to the next minute tell yourself it was all a lie you did not really believe it in the first place. There is no god..

Well, it doesn't take a minute.
I know a doctor that used to be a believer and then became an atheist later on in life.
I asked him what happened to change him.
He said he saw too many things and mentioned just a couple...one having to do with children, of course.
You now,,,the old problem of evil and suffering.

Bart Ehrman was Christian and is now an agnostic.
It happens.

Paul warns against turning our backs on God.
It must mean that it's possible.

 

[JLB]

Yes, the wages of sin is death. God, through Moses and Paul makes that clear, in my view.



The "congregation of the Lord" in scriptures did, it is a Commandment of God, Jesus did say to "Live By" Every Word of God, and Paul said "Circumcision (Jew) is nothing, and uncircumcision (Gentile) is nothing, but the keeping of the commandments of God.

So since we have followed Paul's teaching and have "Yielded ourselves to God", why wouldn't we honor God in submitting to His Righteousness. After all, He is God, Yes?

So Yes, we strive against sin, as defined by the God and Father of the Lord's Christ.

But it is because of all that is written, not because of popular religious traditions of the world God placed us in. I think men must be "Convinced in their own mind" about God's Word. If submission to it doesn't come from the heart in Love and respect for God, then I'm not sure it will mean anything, to Him or to us.

At least this is my understanding

Here’s my question again, based on the law of Moses.


Work shall be done for six days, but the seventh is the Sabbath of rest, holy to the LORD. Whoever does any work on the Sabbath day, he shall surely be put to death. Exodus 31:15


Do you and your congregation obey this commandment to put to death people who do any work on the Sabbath?

 

[JLB]

@JLB

Amen Brother, very nice and comforting to know that there are some folks able to read what you posted, exactly as you meant for it to be understood.

The Lord be with you in your search and love for his truth, which in our day is very hard to come to the knowledge of the truth because of so many voices saying so many different things, on the same doctrine.

Of course you and I may not agree on everything but I try to take each point that people make and respond.


It would be nice to see the body of Christ be able to agree on the foundational doctrine of Christ.