Excellent Discussion on OSAS

@GodsGrace
Why must you be so insulting?
Maybe YOU need a nap RB...
Maybe you could wake up refreshed and QUIT insulting persons on this Forum.
I'm fully awake.
Fran, I was not even trying to be insulting, actually I was jesting with you, if that offended you, then I'm sorry. When I get tired, I do overlooked others post ~and a good nap which I take every day, helps me.
 
Those who God foreknew He also predestined in some way.
How?
He saved them before the foundation of the world.
He also....
WCOF III. By the decree of God, for the manifestation of his glory, some men and angels are predestinated unto everlasting life, and others foreordained to everlasting death.
John CALVIN , predestination is God’s unchangeable decree from before the creation of the world that he would freely save some people (the elect), foreordaining them to eternal life, while the others (the reprobate) would be “barred from access to” salvation and sentenced to “eternal death

But this is interesting because people never were people before birth. They were spirits. So by God's choice he saved some, and he barred some from salvation.

Since there is not a single word in the 66 books of the bible that I ever remember reading about God's interactions before creation with those that would become people... it is a mystery for us to wait and see how it plays out and who will actually make it into a heavenly eternity.
 
So lovely this is my friend .
Again i want to thank you before all . Even though you had misunderstood me
YOUR love for my well being had you to WARN ME . THANK YOU .
i am so wore out with this generation who seems to believe that to correct is somehow evil , judgmental
and bad . THANK You again my friend . I too often warn , often rebuke
will darn sure expose any wolf , any false doctrine . So beleive me when i say
also that interfaith is of antichrist and shall lead all to ANTI CHRIST .
IF WE LOVE we warn . IF we love we correct . its not hate to correct sin either . Thanks again my friend .
@TOTHALORDBEALLGLORY
“Thou shalt not hate thy brother in thine heart: thou shalt in any wise rebuke thy neighbour, and not suffer sin upon him.”
‭‭Leviticus‬ ‭19‬:‭17‬ ‭KJV‬‬
 
He also....
WCOF III. By the decree of God, for the manifestation of his glory, some men and angels are predestinated unto everlasting life, and others foreordained to everlasting death.
John CALVIN , predestination is God’s unchangeable decree from before the creation of the world that he would freely save some people (the elect), foreordaining them to eternal life, while the others (the reprobate) would be “barred from access to” salvation and sentenced to “eternal death

But this is interesting because people never were people before birth. They were spirits. So by God's choice he saved some, and he barred some from salvation.

Since there is not a single word in the 66 books of the bible that I ever remember reading about God's interactions before creation with those that would become people... it is a mystery for us to wait and see how it plays out and who will actually make it into a heavenly eternity.
In the flesh, everyone has the opportunity to be saved.
 
@JLB
Amen Brother, very nice and comforting to know that there are some folks able to read what you posted, exactly as you meant for it to be understood.

The Lord be with you in your search and love for his truth, which in our day is very hard to come to the knowledge of the truth because of so many voices saying so many different things, on the same doctrine.
 
@GodsGrace
Yes. I don't wish to discuss the word FOREKNOW.
We all know what it means to foreknow something.
We KNOW Beforehand....we foreknow.
No, all do not understand the sense in which the Spirit of God used "foreknow" is Romans 8:29. I explained it above so will forgo doing it again, especially so since you do not desire to know the true biblical sense. That's your choice, and you can live with that.

Without knowing the true sense of Romans 8:29 use of foreknow then you cannot come to the knowledge of the truth therein like you so far have not been able to do.

I gave you the answer based upon the true meaning of the word foreknow as it is used by Paul, and understood by most all bible commentaries up until around the last one hundred and fifty years or so. I know, I have read many of them. Here is one of so many that could be provided around three hundred years ago:

Verse 29. For whom he did foreknow,.... The foreknowledge of God here, does not intend his prescience of all things future; by which he foreknows and foretells things to come, and which distinguishes him from all other gods; and is so called, not with respect to himself, with whom all things are present, but with respect to us, and which is eternal, universal, certain, and infallible; for in this sense he foreknows all men, and if this was the meaning here, then all men would be predestinated, conformed to the image of Christ, called by grace, justified and glorified; whereas they are a special people, whom God has foreknown: nor is this foreknowledge to be understood of any provision or foresight of the good works, holiness, faith, and perseverance of men therein, upon which God predestinates them to happiness; since this would make something out of God, and not his good pleasure, the cause of predestination; which was done before, and without any consideration of good or evil, and is entirely owing to the free grace of God, and is the ground and foundation of good works, faith, holiness, and perseverance in them: but this regards the everlasting love of God to his own people, his delight in them, and approbation of them; in this sense he knew them, he foreknew them from everlasting, affectionately loved them, and took infinite delight and pleasure in them; and this is the foundation of their predestination and election, of their conformity to Christ, of their calling, justification, and glorification: for these

he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son; having perfect, distinct, special knowledge of them, joined with love to them, he predetermined, or fore-appointed them in his eternal mind, in his everlasting and unchangeable purposes and decrees to this end, conformity to the image of Christ; which is not to be understood of the Spirit of Christ: God's elect indeed are chosen to be holy, and through sanctification of the Spirit, but are never said to be conformed, made like to the Spirit, nor is the Spirit ever called the image of Christ; but this designs either likeness to Christ as the Son of God, or conformity to him in his human nature. There is indeed a great disparity between the sonship of Christ, and of the saints; he is the eternal and natural Son of God, he is the one and only begotten Son, they are adopted ones, yet in some things there is a likeness; as he is the Son of God, so are they the sons of God, though not in the same sense; as he is a beloved Son, so are they; as he is the firstborn with respect them, they are the firstborn with respect to angels; as he has an inheritance, so have they; moreover, he has a very great concern in their sonship; the predestination of them to it is by him; the blessing itself is founded on union to him, on their conjugal relation to him, and his assumption of their nature; it comes to them through his redemption, and is actually bestowed on them by him; and this conformity to Christ as sons, will mere fully appear hereafter, when they shall be like him, and see him as he is: or this may be understood of the saints' conformity to Christ in his human nature, both here and hereafter: here in holiness; the image of God was in in his first creation, this is defaced by sin; and in regeneration, the image of Christ is stamped, his grace is wrought in them, his Spirit is put into them, to enable them to walk in him, and after him: this will be complete hereafter, and will consist in perfect holiness, being freed from the very being, as well as the power and guilt of sin; in perfect knowledge of everything that will tend to their happiness; and in glory like to Christ, both in soul and body:" John Gill November 23, 1697 – October 14, 1771
 
@GodsGrace

No, all do not understand the sense in which the Spirit of God used "foreknow" is Romans 8:29. I explained it above so will forgo doing it again, especially so since you do not desire to know the true biblical sense.
With all due respect, Red, you are wrong. The sense you gave in your explanation was conjured up to provide some support for your misguided (Calvinistic) view of election.
Without knowing the true sense of Romans 8:29 use of foreknow then you cannot come to the knowledge of the truth therein like you so far have not been able to do.
That is certainly true. And you have demonstrated that by your conjured explanation of, not the word "foreknow", but rather some euphemistic use of the word "know" to mean sexual intercourse (Gen 4:1) which can have nothing whatsoever to do with God's omniscience.
I gave you the answer based upon the true meaning of the word foreknow as it is used by Paul, and understood by most all bible commentaries up until around the last one hundred and fifty years or so.
But the answer was based, not upon the true meaning of the word foreknow, but rather on some conjured up meaning apart from its use in the Bible.
Verse 29. For whom he did foreknow,.... The foreknowledge of God here, does not intend his prescience of all things future; by which he foreknows and foretells things to come, and which distinguishes him from all other gods;
Of course, it intends exactly that. That is what God's foreknowledge is. It is his prescience of all things future; by which he foreknows and foretells things to come, and which distinguishes him from all other gods. That is the only way that it is ever used. In verse 29 God foreknows those in verse 28 who would love Him. Let's set aside for a moment the parenthetical phrase, "to them who are called according to his purpose". And read the primary statement given there, namely, "And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God (because) whom he did foreknow he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son....." He then goes on to say that those God predestined He also called. That explains the parenthetical phrase of the process of God calling those who loved Him and still further He justified and glorified.
 
@Studyman
I don't believe that God's Laws are "Worthless Jewish Traditions" no different than the traditions of Godless Pagans.
Strawman argument Studyman ~ no one here has ever made such a statement as what you are now saying, no one. You are building a strawman and fighting him, you are not disagreeing with me, since that wicked thinking has never enter into my heart, never. Is this clear? God's Moral law contained and summed up in the Ten commandments are the only true spiritual, perfect ,holy and good laws ever put forth in this world. Is this clear to you coming from me? I'm short on time, so I will only cover what I can today, and finish when I can in the next couple of days or so ~ but finish I will, the Lord willing.
"many" have preached for years what I believe are falsehoods, that God's Laws that Jesus and Paul and all the Faithful examples written in the entire bible, walked in , are a "Yoke of bondage", "traditions of men" and "Rudiments of this world".
Studyman, you are either confused, or being down right deceitful ~ charity demands that I chose to believe you are just confused.

No one believes what you are saying. We do teach that there were certain ordinances from the OT meant only for the Jews and that only until Christ; we also teach there are NO commandments to be kept in order to be holy/righteous before God. There are no commandments given to add to what Christ has done in order to secured the free justification of his people, to teach that there are, is to preach another gospel that does fall under the curse of God per Paul from Galatians 1. Is this clear to you? So, if you use my name, say what I do beleive, not what you want others to believe about me, in order to push your false gospel.
So it is no wonder that men would preach to others that Paul is rebuking Peter for obeying God's Laws in Gal. 1. Of course that is not true, in my view.
It is not an easy task to break down your web of false teachings in order to reveal to others your errors. Paul did rebuke Peter because he was wrong. Peter was guilty of adding to the gospel of Christ by withdrawing himself and separating himself from the Gentiles when those of the circumcision came to town. Peter was eating with the Gentiles AS THEY EAT, yet when they of the circumcision came from Jerusalem, he withdrew from the Gentiles' table, as though he had not fellowship and eaten with them as they eat ~ as though that was necessary in order to be righteous before God...much like you do with you holding to the Jewish dietary laws.

So it is no wonder that men would preach to others that Paul is rebuking Peter for obeying God's Laws in Gal. 1. Of course that is not true, in my view.
Studyman, your view is wrong and you need to repent. So, if Paul is not rebuking Peter why does God's word say that he did?
I must move on.
No, I post God's Words and invite others to examine them with me, seeking God's Truth through them. Some are here to promote Calvinism, which is a Salvation by "holy Lottery" philosophy, in my understanding.
Actually, I do not promote Calvinism ~ I do promote the doctrine of Grace, which the scriptures promote, and even with that, I very seldom spend time just on that subject ~actually I would love to get into eschatology, but so far cannot get there because of laboring to keep folks like you from promoting your work gospel. I've taught much more on end time than any other subject if the truth is known, which @Jim can testify, who has known me for years.

I'm been called, so I must come back later ~most likely tomorrow.
 
@GodsGrace

No, all do not understand the sense in which the Spirit of God used "foreknow" is Romans 8:29. I explained it above so will forgo doing it again, especially so since you do not desire to know the true biblical sense. That's your choice, and you can live with that.

Without knowing the true sense of Romans 8:29 use of foreknow then you cannot come to the knowledge of the truth therein like you so far have not been able to do.

I gave you the answer based upon the true meaning of the word foreknow as it is used by Paul, and understood by most all bible commentaries up until around the last one hundred and fifty years or so. I know, I have read many of them. Here is one of so many that could be provided around three hundred years ago:

Well Mr. Baker. You are wrong, biblically speaking, about Paul Teaching the Galatians that God's judgments and Statutes are no different than the judgments and statutes of Pagan gods, who are No gods. Paul doesn't teach this to anyone, ever.

We have also clearly established that the commandments contained in ordinances that relegated Faithful non-Jews, who joined themself to the Lord, as "without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world" are not the commandments that God gave His People through Moses, but clearly are the commandments and traditions of men, taught for centuries by Stiff-necked, uncircumcised of the heart preachers, who had corrupted God's Covenant, specifically the Pharisees, AKA, "the children of the devil" as Jesus described them. You can read about them in Malachi 2, should you want to see what God Inspired.

We have also established that God created "ONE LAW" for both the Jew (Homeborn) and the Non-Jew (Stranger) who chose to adopt the "Way of the Lord", including Passover and Feast of Unleavened Bread, and circumcision (of the heart), and that Paul "yielded himself" servants to obey God, even in the Feasts of the Lord, and promoted certain Judgments concerning, as Jesus said, even "What shall we eat, what shall we drink" to Gentiles in Acts 15, several years after Jesus ascended.

In your posts, you have promoted philosophies and traditions that directly contradict most of Paul's teaching, and certainly his teaching concerning the topic mentioned above.

GG is a sharp woman, and she understands that the philosophies you are promoting, is not, in many cases, what Paul is teaching at all. Not just in the topics we have been discussing, but other topics as well. So she is only following the warnings of the Jesus "of the Bible", and of Paul, to "Beware" and "Take Heed" of preachers, who "come in Christ's Name" but who promote popular religious philosophies and traditions of men, that do not align with what the scriptures actually say.

And she is wise to trust the Jesus "of the Bible" and let the Words of Jesus and His Father who sent Him, direct her in the way that she should go, in my view. And good for her.

Perhaps it is you that doesn't understand the sense in which the Spirit of God intended. Surely a wise man would consider, especially in light of all the evidence being shown that brings question to popular philosophies you have adopted and are now promoting.
 
In the flesh, everyone has the opportunity to be saved.
I know. That is why I am not in the predestined camp, ie Calvin.
 
As far as salvation yes.. There is jew and gentile. both are one

But again, israel was given a sperate promise
All of the promises given to Israel are fulfilled in the Church.
The promise God made to Israel was not based on their faith.. it was his gift to them
Wrong again. God set many conditions upon His gifts to them. As long as they remained faithful to Him, he would bless them. But when they rebelled against them, the curses of the Law came upon them. It was the choice and action of the people that determined whether the Law brought blessing or cursing upon them.
I know

But what you preach, you force yourself to obey the law

there are only two ways to heaven in scripture

1. The law. Obey ever word

2. grace - through the death of christ

any other form of any gospel is to be anathema, it is not from God
And as you have said, grace (which simply means "gift") is received through faith. And faith MUST have actions of obedience or it is not real, not effective, and doesn't result in grace being received.
 
@GodsGrace

No, all do not understand the sense in which the Spirit of God used "foreknow" is Romans 8:29. I explained it above so will forgo doing it again, especially so since you do not desire to know the true biblical sense. That's your choice, and you can live with that.

Without knowing the true sense of Romans 8:29 use of foreknow then you cannot come to the knowledge of the truth therein like you so far have not been able to do.

I gave you the answer based upon the true meaning of the word foreknow as it is used by Paul, and understood by most all bible commentaries up until around the last one hundred and fifty years or so. I know, I have read many of them. Here is one of so many that could be provided around three hundred years ago:

Verse 29. For whom he did foreknow,.... The foreknowledge of God here, does not intend his prescience of all things future; by which he foreknows and foretells things to come, and which distinguishes him from all other gods; and is so called, not with respect to himself, with whom all things are present, but with respect to us, and which is eternal, universal, certain, and infallible; for in this sense he foreknows all men, and if this was the meaning here, then all men would be predestinated, conformed to the image of Christ, called by grace, justified and glorified; whereas they are a special people, whom God has foreknown: nor is this foreknowledge to be understood of any provision or foresight of the good works, holiness, faith, and perseverance of men therein, upon which God predestinates them to happiness; since this would make something out of God, and not his good pleasure, the cause of predestination; which was done before, and without any consideration of good or evil, and is entirely owing to the free grace of God, and is the ground and foundation of good works, faith, holiness, and perseverance in them: but this regards the everlasting love of God to his own people, his delight in them, and approbation of them; in this sense he knew them, he foreknew them from everlasting, affectionately loved them, and took infinite delight and pleasure in them; and this is the foundation of their predestination and election, of their conformity to Christ, of their calling, justification, and glorification: for these

he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son; having perfect, distinct, special knowledge of them, joined with love to them, he predetermined, or fore-appointed them in his eternal mind, in his everlasting and unchangeable purposes and decrees to this end, conformity to the image of Christ; which is not to be understood of the Spirit of Christ: God's elect indeed are chosen to be holy, and through sanctification of the Spirit, but are never said to be conformed, made like to the Spirit, nor is the Spirit ever called the image of Christ; but this designs either likeness to Christ as the Son of God, or conformity to him in his human nature. There is indeed a great disparity between the sonship of Christ, and of the saints; he is the eternal and natural Son of God, he is the one and only begotten Son, they are adopted ones, yet in some things there is a likeness; as he is the Son of God, so are they the sons of God, though not in the same sense; as he is a beloved Son, so are they; as he is the firstborn with respect them, they are the firstborn with respect to angels; as he has an inheritance, so have they; moreover, he has a very great concern in their sonship; the predestination of them to it is by him; the blessing itself is founded on union to him, on their conjugal relation to him, and his assumption of their nature; it comes to them through his redemption, and is actually bestowed on them by him; and this conformity to Christ as sons, will mere fully appear hereafter, when they shall be like him, and see him as he is: or this may be understood of the saints' conformity to Christ in his human nature, both here and hereafter: here in holiness; the image of God was in in his first creation, this is defaced by sin; and in regeneration, the image of Christ is stamped, his grace is wrought in them, his Spirit is put into them, to enable them to walk in him, and after him: this will be complete hereafter, and will consist in perfect holiness, being freed from the very being, as well as the power and guilt of sin; in perfect knowledge of everything that will tend to their happiness; and in glory like to Christ, both in soul and body:" John Gill November 23, 1697 – October 14, 1771
Really RB...
I don't care what John Gill believes.
He was a Particular Baptist and a reformed/Calvinist believer.

Why not just reply to my question?
 
All of the promises given to Israel are fulfilled in the Church.
then why is the church not living in peace in the land of Canaan.
Wrong again. God set many conditions upon His gifts to them.
He set conditions on wither they can enjoy the gift. Not on them having the gift. the promise still stands as proven in OT prophets and romans 11
As long as they remained faithful to Him, he would bless them. But when they rebelled against them, the curses of the Law came upon them. It was the choice and action of the people that determined whether the Law brought blessing or cursing upon them.
Yes. the law was a conditional covenant.

the covenant of abraham by which we are saved was not conditional
And as you have said, grace (which simply means "gift") is received through faith. And faith MUST have actions of obedience or it is not real, not effective, and doesn't result in grace being received.
No.

your trying to add.

faith WILL have works.

Paul said in in eph 2: 10. and it is all over.

We are saved by grace through faith NOT WIORKS
Not by works of righteousness which we have done but byu his mercy he saved us

paul rejects your self righteous works based gospel
 
He also....
WCOF III. By the decree of God, for the manifestation of his glory, some men and angels are predestinated unto everlasting life, and others foreordained to everlasting death.
John CALVIN , predestination is God’s unchangeable decree from before the creation of the world that he would freely save some people (the elect), foreordaining them to eternal life, while the others (the reprobate) would be “barred from access to” salvation and sentenced to “eternal death

But this is interesting because people never were people before birth. They were spirits. So by God's choice he saved some, and he barred some from salvation.

Since there is not a single word in the 66 books of the bible that I ever remember reading about God's interactions before creation with those that would become people... it is a mystery for us to wait and see how it plays out and who will actually make it into a heavenly eternity.
Interesting!
Good catch!

Oh what a tangled web we weave...!
When wrongly teaching....we deceive...!

:)
 
…”like the image of Jesus” is how we slowly become like Him as we study His Word and seek His face.
Yes.
God predestined us to become like His Son...
To use Jesus as our example...
To study His word and seek His face.

God did not pick and choose who would be saved and who would be lost.
Man has a say in his salvation.
If he didn't, God would not be a just God, or a loving God.

Happily for mankind...God gives to everyone the opportunity to become saved.

John 3:16
16 "For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that
whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life.


Whoever believes in Jesus will not perish.
 
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