Excellent Discussion on OSAS

calvinist believe there has never been free will.

Yes, I know Calvinists believe there is no free will, what do you think my point was?

We don't accept that Calvinists are right just only after you get saved.

I've literally heard a Baptist say, "I'm an Arminian before the Cross; and I'm a Calvinist after it."
 
Yes, I know Calvinists believe there is no free will, what do you think my point was?
the way you wrote it made it appear that we lost free will after salvation.
We don't accept that Calvinists are right just only after you get saved.

I've literally heard a Baptist say, "I'm an Arminian before the Cross; and I'm a Calvinist after it."
I was a longtime baptist. saved under the baptist church, and I never heard of such a thing, even as a baptist. I rejected both lines of theology
 
EDIT by Admin and those verses do not say human are fundamentally good, rather righteous as a gift of faith.

That is your interpretation/theology. It doesn't match the facts of the narrative.

1. Abraham rejoiced to see Christ. What exactly is "BAD" about this?

2. Jesus said....

Mat 18:1 At the same time came the disciples unto Jesus, saying, Who is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven?
Mat 18:2 And Jesus called a little child unto him, and set him in the midst of them,
Mat 18:3 And said, Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven.
Mat 18:4 Whosoever therefore shall humble himself as this little child, the same is greatest in the kingdom of heaven.

Humbled people are "GREAT" in the Kingdom of God.

Act 10:15 The voice spoke to him again, a second time, “What God has made clean, you must not consider unclean!”
 
That is your interpretation/theology. It doesn't match the facts of the narrative.

If you are trusting in your own righteousness instead of the suffering of Christ, you will go to hell.

You will not go to heaven on your own goodness.

Therefore by the deeds of the law no flesh will be justified in His sight, for by the law is the knowledge of sin. (Rom. 3:20 NKJ)

Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith apart from the deeds of the law. (Rom. 3:28 NKJ)
 
If you are trusting in your own righteousness instead of the suffering of Christ, you will go to hell.

You will not go to heaven on your own goodness.

Therefore by the deeds of the law no flesh will be justified in His sight, for by the law is the knowledge of sin. (Rom. 3:20 NKJ)

Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith apart from the deeds of the law. (Rom. 3:28 NKJ)
How can flesh trust in itself? Our very existence is confirmation of our inadequacy.

You're conflating ideals in your theology.
 
Needless to say, we can always walk away from God, he does not remove our free will.
saying we can does not mean anyone would

God is not like us, He does not fail us. He not only saved us from eternal wrath. He gives us hope in a dead world.

People do not just walk away from that

also. John makes it clear in 1 John that these people (they are antrichrists) were never of us. if they were of us they never would have left (for the reason i stated above, God does not fail us)

If you think yuo can walk away from God. I will question you know anythign about God. and maybe thats why you think you could walk away
 
Indeed, we are to WALK in the Light, not sit idly by. And if those who were once walking in Light, cease to walk in Light, then they cease to be cleansed by Christ.
Hmm.. I must have missed where John said that in 1 John 1:6-7. Are these the words of John or your eisegesis?
 
If you think yuo can walk away from God. I will question you know anythign about God. and maybe thats why you think you could walk away

Some people go so far as to say if you don't believe in OSAS you cannot be saved. Now that's real security.

But no. The fear of God is the beginning of wisdom, not the presumption I am immune from sin.

I've know OSAS people who had debated fervently who have now rejected Christianity; yet me, the "insecure" one, is still here.

I guess they weren't "good enough" OSAS.

But I know why I will be in heaven.

Because I choose to be.
 
Some people go so far as to say if you don't believe in OSAS you cannot be saved. Now that's real security.

But no. The fear of God is the beginning of wisdom, not the presumption I am immune from sin.

I've know OSAS people who had debated fervently who have now rejected Christianity; yet me, the "insecure" one, is still here.

I guess they weren't "good enough" OSAS.

But I know why I will be in heaven.

Because I choose to be.
They were never saved as John tells us. If they were of us they would have remained with us.
 
Some people go so far as to say if you don't believe in OSAS you cannot be saved. Now that's real security.
osas is a doctrine.. People can believe in OSAS and not be saved.,
But no. The fear of God is the beginning of wisdom, not the presumption I am immune from sin.
Your not.. the question is, has your sin been redeemed
I've know OSAS people who had debated fervently who have now rejected Christianity; yet me, the "insecure" one, is still here.
And this means what?
I guess they weren't "good enough" OSAS.
Or maybe they were licentious. like those James spoke of. They claimed to have faith. but had no faith in god. did not repent. and thus had no works.
But I know why I will be in heaven.

Because I choose to be.
Ah, Youi saved yourself

Got it..

I know I will be in heaven, Because my savior saved me..

He gets the credit. not me
 
1 John 2:19
They went out from us, but they were not really of us; for if they had been of us, they would have remained with us; but they went out, so that it would be evident that they all are not of us.


2 Corinthians 11:13-15
For such men are false apostles, deceitful workers, masquerading as apostles of Christ. / And no wonder, for Satan himself masquerades as an angel of light. / It is not surprising, then, if his servants masquerade as servants of righteousness. Their end will correspond to their actions.

Jude 1:4
For certain men have crept in among you unnoticed—ungodly ones who were designated long ago for condemnation. They turn the grace of our God into a license for immorality, and they deny our only Master and Lord, Jesus Christ.

Matthew 7:21-23
Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22Many will say to me on that day,‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’ 23Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’

Hope this helps !!!
 
Then there is this.

If anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous.
1 John 2:1

There’s no escaping judgment, and there’s no escaping God’s judgment except through the grace and pardon of Jesus Christ. He is our Advocate, our Barrister, and our Defense Attorney (1 John 2:1).

The prophet Zechariah once had a vision in which he saw Israel’s high priest, Joshua, standing before the Lord, dressed in filthy rags and being accused by Satan. But the Lord removed the man’s filthy garments and clothed him with rich robes and a clean turban, all of grace (Zechariah 3:1-5).

The judgment that we deserve has been suspended permanently. Our Advocate provides robes of righteousness as our shame, guilt, and judgment are washed away by His blood.

Dressed in His righteousness alone, faultless to stand before the Throne!
EDWARD MOTE
 
Let me tell the parable of the 3 OSASkateers.


Walking along in the forest one day they met the dirty evil Conditionalist.

"Oh, you believe you can LOSE your salvation, you have no security, you are trying to earn heaven," they said, their three swords drawn and united with the cry, "Once for all, and all for once!"

"Well, yes," he replied. "Scripture says to beware we do not fall away, I take it seriously."

"Nonsense!" said the OSASkateers. "You are trusting in your works!"

And he went on his way.


Two years later, the dirty evil Conditionalist is walking by the same place. But this time there is only 2 OSASkateers.

"Where is your friend?" he says.

"Oh, he went out from us, because he was not of us. It means nothing for our OSAS, since he was never SASSED in the first place."

"I see. And yet, you make this OSAS your security instead of heeding the warnings of Scripture..."

"SILENCE! Eternal means eternal! Just not for him, he was not really saved."

And off they went.


Two years later, the dirty old Conditionalist still taking the warnings in Scripture seriously walks by. Now there is only 1 OSASkateer left.

"Oh my, you are alone now. What happened?"

"I was the only one truly saved, obviously. You have to make sure you are properly saved before you can be sure you will never be lost!"

"But were not your two friends completely convinced that they were saved, just like you are?!"

"Well, yes, but obviously they knew they were not really. It was plain for all to see."

And off he went.


Two more years later, the "works salvationist" Conditionalist walks through the same spot. This time there are no OSASkateers left.

"Oh. I guess none of them were ever saved to begin with according to them. All their security and trust did was seem to mislead them. And yet here am I, still saved, when according to them I never should have had any security to begin with. Now that seems quite odd."

And the old Conditionalist picked up his Bible and read as he went on his way, the same warnings he always read:

"Beware, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief in departing from the living God; but exhort one another daily, while it is called 'Today,' lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin. For we have become partakers of Christ if we hold the beginning of our confidence steadfast to the end."

"It seems this Book has been more of a security to me than OSAS ever was to anyone," he thought to himself.

And continued on his path.
 
Let me tell the parable of the 3 OSASkateers.


Walking along in the forest one day they met the dirty evil Conditionalist.

"Oh, you believe you can LOSE your salvation, you have no security, you are trying to earn heaven," they said, their three swords drawn and united with the cry, "Once for all, and all for once!"

"Well, yes," he replied. "Scripture says to beware we do not fall away, I take it seriously."

"Nonsense!" said the OSASkateers. "You are trusting in your works!"

And he went on his way.


Two years later, the dirty evil Conditionalist is walking by the same place. But this time there is only 2 OSASkateers.

"Where is your friend?" he says.

"Oh, he went out from us, because he was not of us. It means nothing for our OSAS, since he was never SASSED in the first place."

"I see. And yet, you make this OSAS your security instead of heeding the warnings of Scripture..."

"SILENCE! Eternal means eternal! Just not for him, he was not really saved."

And off they went.


Two years later, the dirty old Conditionalist still taking the warnings in Scripture seriously walks by. Now there is only 1 OSASkateer left.

"Oh my, you are alone now. What happened?"

"I was the only one truly saved, obviously. You have to make sure you are properly saved before you can be sure you will never be lost!"

"But were not your two friends completely convinced that they were saved, just like you are?!"

"Well, yes, but obviously they knew they were not really. It was plain for all to see."

And off he went.


Two more years later, the "works salvationist" Conditionalist walks through the same spot. This time there are no OSASkateers left.

"Oh. I guess none of them were ever saved to begin with according to them. All their security and trust did was seem to mislead them. And yet here am I, still saved, when according to them I never should have had any security to begin with. Now that seems quite odd."

And the old Conditionalist picked up his Bible and read as he went on his way, the same warnings he always read:

"Beware, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief in departing from the living God; but exhort one another daily, while it is called 'Today,' lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin. For we have become partakers of Christ if we hold the beginning of our confidence steadfast to the end."

"It seems this Book has been more of a security to me than OSAS ever was to anyone," he thought to himself.

And continued on his path.
thanks for the nice laugh

He if it keeps you blind and keeps you looking to self and your works and not God. I guess it works for you
 
Just in the last year I've seen two prominent apostasies of people with thousands of followers.


Donald Hinds, better known as "Young Don," an avid preacher of OSAS and Eternal Security throughout 2022.

Status today: Completely denies Christianity.

Tyler Vela, "The Freed Thinker," fervently preached Calvinist Eternal Security for many years up through 2022.

Status today: Completely denies Christianity.


Take heed lest there be in any of you.
 
Just in the last year I've seen two prominent apostasies of people with thousands of followers.


Donald Hinds, better known as "Young Don," an avid preacher of OSAS and Eternal Security throughout 2022.

Status today: Completely denies Christianity.

Tyler Vela, "The Freed Thinker," fervently preached Calvinist Eternal Security for many years up through 2022.

Status today: Completely denies Christianity.


Take heed lest there be in any of you.
Never were of us if they were of us they would of remained with us.

Bible truth 101
 
Anyone can fall into sin and walk away form God, but when they come to their scenes they come back home.

If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
1 John 1:9

12“What do you think? If a man has one hundred sheep, and one of them goes astray, doesn’t he leave the ninety-nine, go to the mountains, and seek that which has gone astray? 13If he finds it, most certainly I tell you, he rejoices over it more than over the ninety-nine which have not gone astray. Matthew 18:12-13


In Luke 15:12, the younger son asks his father for his share of his estate, which would have been half of what his older brother would receive (see Deuteronomy 21:17). In other words, the younger son asked for 1/3 of the estate. Though it was perfectly within his rights to ask, it was not a loving thing to do, as it implied that he wished his father dead. Instead of rebuking his son, the father patiently grants him his request. This is a picture of God letting a sinner go his own way (Deuteronomy 30:19).

Like the prodigal son, we all possess a foolish ambition to be independent, which is at the root of the sinner persisting in his sin (Genesis 3:6; Romans 1:28). A sinful state is a departure and distance from God (Romans 1:21). A sinful state is also a place of constant discontent. In Luke 12:15 Jesus says, “Watch out! Be on your guard against all kinds of greed; a man’s life does not consist in the abundance of his possessions.” The younger son in the parable learned the hard way that covetousness leads to a life of dissatisfaction and disappointment. He also learned that the most valuable things in life are the things we cannot buy or replace.

In Luke 15:13 the younger son travels to a distant country. It is evident from his previous actions that he had already made that journey in his heart, and the physical departure was a display of his willful disobedience to all the goodness his father had offered (Proverbs 27:19; Matthew 6:21; 12:34). In the foreign land, the prodigal squanders all his inheritance on selfish, shallow fulfillment, losing everything. His financial disaster is followed by a natural disaster in the form of a famine, which he failed to plan for. At this point he hires himself out to a Gentile and finds himself feeding pigs, a detestable job to the Jewish people (Leviticus 11:7). Needless to say, the prodigal must have been incredibly desperate to willingly take such a loathsome position. He was paid so little and grew so hungry that he longed to eat the pig’s food. To top it off, he could find no mercy among the people he had chosen as his own: “No one gave him anything” (verse 16). Apparently, once his wealth was gone, so were his friends. Even the unclean animals were better off than he was at that point.

The prodigal son toiling in the pig pen is a picture of the lost sinner or a rebellious Christian who has returned to a life of sin (2 Peter 2:19–21). The results of sin are never pretty (James 1:14–15).

The prodigal son begins to reflect on his miserable condition, and “he came to his senses” (Luke 15:17). He realizes that even his father’s servants have it better. His painful circumstances help him to see his father in a new light. Hope begins to dawn in his heart (Psalm 147:11; Isaiah 40:30–31; 1 Timothy 4:10).

The prodigal’s realization is reflective of the sinner’s discovery that, apart from God, there is no hope (Ephesians 2:12; 2 Timothy 2:25–26). When a sinner “comes to his senses,” repentance follows, along with a longing to return to fellowship with God.

The son devises a plan of action, and it shows that his repentance was genuine. He will admit his sin (Luke 15:18), and he will give up his rights as a son and take on the position of a servant (verse 19). He realizes he has no right to a blessing from his father, and he has nothing to offer his father except a life of service. Returning home, the prodigal son is prepared to fall at his father’s feet and beg for mercy.

In the same way, a repentant sinner coming to God is keenly aware of his own spiritual poverty. Laying aside all pride and feelings of entitlement, he brings nothing of value with him. The sinner’s only thought is to cast himself at the mercy of God and beg for a position of servitude (1 John 1:9; Romans 6:6–18; 12:1).

 
Just remember the prodigal son was DEAD according to the passage.
 
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