Excellent Discussion on OSAS

[Red Baker]

@civic

So if one was saved then they will always be saved right ?

Eternal Life is permanent right ?

Once you are born again you can never become unborn right ?

Brother, to your first question, I ask, how are you using the word saved? In a vital sense? then my answer would be, that person is eternally saved from condemnation and his sins~past, present and future.

That being said, a child of God can lose his practical salvation of joy, peace, comfort, and from the wiles of the devil, etc. by not taking heed to himself and to the word of God in particularly.

Of course it is foolish to think we can be unborn once born again. We were born again, based upon Jesus' obedience and that can never be taken from us. Our obedience gives us assurance, peace, joy, happiness and protection from false doctrine and prophets and from God's chastening hand, etc.

 

[civic]

@civic

Brother, to your first question, I ask, how are you using the word saved? In a vital sense? then my answer would be, that person is eternally saved from condemnation and his sins~past, present and future.

I'm using saved in the same sense as eternal life, born again, having the Holy Spirit in you as a pledge of our inheritance or as Paul describes in Romans 8 that nothing can separate a believer from Christ.

One cannot be saved unless they are born again and receive eternal life/salvation from their Savior Jesus Christ.

 

[Blessed]

How do I know what?
Who am I criticizing?


And I'm not really interested in reading links.
Just state what you wish to state.

The New Testament verse "I will never leave you nor forsake you" is found in Hebrews 13:5. This promise, echoing from the Old Testament (Deuteronomy 31:6), assures believers that God will remain with them and will not abandon them.

Anyone that thinks that salvation can be lost is criticizing.

Who are you to criticize someone else’s servant? The Lord will determine whether his servant has been successful. The servant will be successful because the Lord makes him successful.
Romans 14:4

How do you know they will not all turn back?

The Lord makes sure we stand. What Jesus did on the cross wasn't just a a band-aid. He redeemed us once and for all. No turning back.

 

[Doug Brents]

nowhere does the bible say they were born again in the OT. That only occurs at Pentecost and after.

You are right, it never uses that terminology in the OT. However, it does refer to many of the OT Saints as being made righteous, which is a synonym of being born again, so it is the same thing.

And IMHO you are reading too much into the text. Your view is the same as the calvinists pov.

I am not reading anything into the text. Jesus says that the father said of the son, "for this son of mine was dead and has come to life again; he was lost and has been found." Even the father accepted that the son was dead. But when he returned, the father said he had returned to life again.

 

[GodsGrace]

That speaks of those of Israel who believe that they belong to God because they are descendants of Abraham, who will be sorely disappointed. They knew God, being of His people, but rejected Him. They will suffer greatly, due to their knowledge and what they have done.

I believe OSAS is a heresy, however, I believe that eternal security founded in God is what scripture teaches. If one is truly saved, a true believer, then God will keep them in their faith. (Jude 34-35.) Jesus speaks to those people who basically come and say, we're here. You're true people. Look what we did, and we did in your name. All these great things. Jesus tells them that He NEVER knew them. Why? They were never saved to begin with.

Where does Matthew 7 state what you wrote above?
"Jesus tells them that He NEVER knew them. Why? They were never saved to begin with."
Jesus explains why....because they were LAWLESS.

What you write above sounds very nice....
but it's not what scripture teaches.
It's very convenient to state that those that fall away were never saved to begin with.
NOWHERE does it state this.

There are many warnings in the NT, both by Jesus and the writers. to beware:

Romans 11:20-22
20 Quite right, they were broken off for their unbelief, but you stand by your faith. Do not be conceited *, but fear;
21 for if God did not spare the natural branches, He will not spare you, either.
22 Behold then the kindness and severity of God; to those who fell, severity, but to you, God's kindness, if you continue in His kindness; otherwise you also will be cut off.
BUT to you KINDNESS IF you CONTINUE in His kindness...
otherwise YOU ALSO will be cut off.
We are to CONTINUE in God's kindness.
We are to continue to dwell with Him.

They deceived themselves. It isn't name dropping, or who you claim to know, but who knows you. John in I John says that they left us to show that they were NEVER of us. Why does he say that. He says that if they were of us (believers) they would have stayed.

Actually, John is speaking of some gnostics that had infiltrated the group.
This was already happening when the Apostles were still alive.

They were not of us....means they were not saved by faith.
But there are many verses that warn us to stay close to Jesus:

2 Corinthians 11:2-3
2 For I am jealous for you with a godly jealousy; for I betrothed you to one husband, so that to Christ I might present you as a pure virgin.
3 But I am afraid that, as the serpent deceived Eve by his craftiness, your minds will be led astray from the simplicity and purity of devotion to Christ.


Paul is worried that satan will lead astray some believers.
Surely this means that Paul believes that those saved CAN BE led astray.

The most important question to ask when it comes to eternal security (again I believe OSAS is a heresy) is, were they saved in the first place. Jesus saying He never knew them goes to show that whatever conversion they showed was false.

Yes. They were saved in the first place.

What is the difference between eternal security and OSAS?

In Hebrews, those who tasted of the life are those who were in the church, and by being in the church "tasted" of the blessings of God poured out on the church. They are not part of the church because they aren't saved, but have tasted of the blessings that were poured on the church. The author of Hebrews is telling them to repent and be saved before it is too late. If the reject and walk away, then there is no place of repentance for them, for God will not sacrifice His son a second time. If Jesus sacrifice was not good enough for you, there is nothing else that can save you. Don't reject. Don't trample the Son of God underfoot. Believe and be saved.

Surely you're speaking of Hebrews 6....

Who are the enlightened?
The lost?
Paul says WHO WERE ONCE.....
This means that they WERE once...but are no longer.

Paul states that they have shared in the HOLY SPIRIT.
Do UNBELIEVERS share in the Holy Spirit?
Do they PARTAKE of the Holy Spirit?


Hebrews 6:4-6
4 For in the case of those who have once been enlightened and have tasted of the heavenly gift and have been made partakers of the Holy Spirit,
5 and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come,
6 and then have fallen away, it is impossible to renew them again to repentance, since they again crucify to themselves the Son of God and put Him to open

 

[Salty]

Eternal life is what Jesus promises. When people take offense and disagree, that’s fine. They just don't know how saved they really are.

 

[Anja]

Eternal life is what Jesus promises. When people take offense and disagree, that’s fine. They just don't know how saved they really are.

Right on! What makes a person a Christian is when they realize that Jesus, the One who died and rose again, guarantees everlasting life to all who simply believe in Him. Until they believe in eternal security, they’ve not yet understood the point of Calvary and the empty tomb.

 

[GodsGrace]

The New Testament verse "I will never leave you nor forsake you" is found in Hebrews 13:5. This promise, echoing from the Old Testament (Deuteronomy 31:6), assures believers that God will remain with them and will not abandon them.

Of course God will never abandon us.
But we can abandon Him.

2 Timothy 2:12
12 If we endure, we will also reign with Him; If we deny Him, He also will deny us;


If we deny God...
He will also deny us.

Anyone that thinks that salvation can be lost is criticizing.

Well then ....I suppose Paul thought that he was criticizing when he exhorted BELIEVERS
to continue in the path of faith:

Colossians 1:21-23
21 And although you were formerly alienated and hostile in mind, engaged in evil deeds,
22 yet He has now reconciled you in His fleshly body through death, in order to present you before Him holy and blameless and beyond reproach -
23 if indeed you continue in the faith firmly established and steadfast, and not moved away from the hope of the gospel that you have heard, which was proclaimed in all creation under heaven, and of which I, Paul, was made a minister.

Who are you to criticize someone else’s servant? The Lord will determine whether his servant has been successful. The servant will be successful because the Lord makes him successful.

Are YOU criticizing ME because you don't agree with me?

The Lord will determine who is saved and who is not.

But if I cannot judge whether or not a person is wrong or is falling away...
so that perhaps he might be brought back into the fold...
then what value does the following scripture have?:

Matthew 18:15-17 Jesus said
15 "If your brother sins, go and show him his fault in private; if he listens to you, you have won your brother.
16 "But if he does not listen to you, take one or two more with you, so that BY THE MOUTH OF TWO OR THREE WITNESSES EVERY FACT MAY BE CONFIRMED.
17 "If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church; and if he refuses to listen even to the church, let him be to you as a Gentile and a tax collector.

Romans 14:4

Really?
So you believe that we can each believe whatever we want to believe?
Sorry...that's not how Christianity works.

There is TRUTH in the bible....
if we each can believe what we wish to believe...
then there is NO TRUTH.

The Lord makes sure we stand. What Jesus did on the cross wasn't just a a band-aid. He redeemed us once and for all. No turning back.

There's turning back,

JESUS stated that there can be a turning back and to think carefully before we become Christian:


Luke 14:27-30
27 "Whoever does not carry his own cross and come after Me cannot * be My disciple.
28 "For which one of you, when he wants to build a tower, does not first sit down and calculate the cost to see if he has enough to complete it?
29 "Otherwise *, when he has laid a foundation and is not able to finish, all who observe it begin to ridicule him,
30 saying, 'This man began to build and was not able to finish.'

 

[Blessed]

@GodsGrace
The vast majority of people today do not believe that Jesus guarantees eternal life to all who simply believe in Him. It stands to reason, therefore, that a large number of “Christians” today are false professors, if by that expression we mean those who profess to believe in Jesus and yet in reality do not.

As for 2 Timothy 2:12
Endurance here is from the Greek word hypomenomen, and includes the idea of "remaining, lasting, enduring or suffering." This is a theme found throughout 2 Timothy. Those who endure are the true believers who will also reign with Christ in the millennial kingdom.

This endurance is proof of their salvation—those who are saved will always endure, and those who do not were never saved in the first place, the false professors. The Greek words for "endure" and "reign" in this line, hypomenomen and symbasileusomen, share the same ending as "died" and "live" in the previous verse. This creates a pattern of four rhyming words in two lines for easy recall by readers and hearers in the original language.

The next phrase, "if we deny him, he also will deny us," presents a contrast with those who endure. If a believer endures, he or she reigns. If a person denies Christ, He will deny eternal life to them. The idea is that of denouncing or rejecting, not simply closing a door to someone. God rejects those who renounce or reject Christ, the false professors.

John 3:18
Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God


John 3:36
He who believes in the Son has everlasting life; and he who does not believe the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him.”

The key is to be a true believer.

 

[Johann]

@GodsGrace
The vast majority of people today do not believe that Jesus guarantees eternal life to all who simply believe in Him. It stands to reason, therefore, that a large number of “Christians” today are false professors, if by that expression we mean those who profess to believe in Jesus and yet in reality do not.

As for 2 Timothy 2:12
Endurance here is from the Greek word hypomenomen, and includes the idea of "remaining, lasting, enduring or suffering." This is a theme found throughout 2 Timothy. Those who endure are the true believers who will also reign with Christ in the millennial kingdom.

This endurance is proof of their salvation—those who are saved will always endure, and those who do not were never saved in the first place, the false professors. The Greek words for "endure" and "reign" in this line, hypomenomen and symbasileusomen, share the same ending as "died" and "live" in the previous verse. This creates a pattern of four rhyming words in two lines for easy recall by readers and hearers in the original language.

The next phrase, "if we deny him, he also will deny us," presents a contrast with those who endure. If a believer endures, he or she reigns. If a person denies Christ, He will deny eternal life to them. The idea is that of denouncing or rejecting, not simply closing a door to someone. God rejects those who renounce or reject Christ, the false professors.

John 3:18
Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God


John 3:36
He who believes in the Son has everlasting life; and he who does not believe the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him.”

The key is to be a true believer.

Hit the nail right on the proverbial head.

Great post @Blessed.

Johann.

 

[Blessed]

Everyone's got to crawl
And you know that
You're up against a wall
It's about to fall
Everyone's got to crawl
And you know that

[Pre-Chorus 3]
I hear You whispering my name
(God says)
My love for You will never change
(Never change)

[Chorus]
What if I stumble
What if I fall?
What if I lose my step
And I make fools of us all?
Will the love continue
When my walk becomes a crawl?
What if I stumble
And what if I fall?

 

[Red Baker]

@Doug Brents

I am not reading anything into the text. Jesus says that the father said of the son, "for this son of mine was dead and has come to life again; he was lost and has been found." Even the father accepted that the son was dead. But when he returned, the father said he had returned to life again.

Doug, you might not be reading something into the scripture in Luke 15, but you certainly are not rightly dividing the scripture by giving them the proper sense that would flow with all scriptures.

The word dead is not limited to being dead spiritually speaking which you are doing with Luke 15:24.

Luke 15:24​

“For this my son was dead, and is alive again; he was lost, and is found. And they began to be merry.”

Please notice" "For this my son was dead, and is alive again". One is not born again, or made alive, and then lose that life and must be born once again, etc. But, one can be a child of God and sin and end up among the congregation of the dead, without the evidence of true spiritual life and just go through the motion of being a son of God, yet their heart is not right with God and need to repent and do their first work. Example would be a great help.

Proverbs 21:16​

“The man that wandereth out of the way of understanding shall remain in the congregation of the dead.”

James 5:20​

“Let him know, that he which converteth the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins.”

God's children at times wander out of the way of understanding, we all have been there to certain degrees, none are exempt from doing this.

When we sin and depart from the straight and narrow way and some good brother is sent from God to convert us back into the way, we should walk in, and when we are converted, then KNOW that a brother, (a sinning brother) has been saved (practically speaking) from living in a state, or among the congregation of the dead, not enjoying God's best for his children~I have been there, have you? Do not answer, I know most have, if they are honest with themselves and before others.

 

[GodsGrace]

@GodsGrace
The vast majority of people today do not believe that Jesus guarantees eternal life to all who simply believe in Him. It stands to reason, therefore, that a large number of “Christians” today are false professors, if by that expression we mean those who profess to believe in Jesus and yet in reality do not.

Blessed,,,,maybe YOU are the false professor.
Maybe YOU are leading many astray by teaching this heresy known as OSAS,,,which was NEVER taught in the church until about the 1800's. Not even John Calvin taught OSAS. It just was never a teaching of the church....the Christian church...going all the way back to the writers and to Jesus Himself.

What do you think it means to BELIEVE in Jesus?
The NT states that even the demons believe.
So what is the difference?
James 2:19

Seeing that you like the Greek...I'm sure you'll be able to supply a good definiton of BELIEVE as is meant in the NT.

As for 2 Timothy 2:12
Endurance here is from the Greek word hypomenomen, and includes the idea of "remaining, lasting, enduring or suffering." This is a theme found throughout 2 Timothy. Those who endure are the true believers who will also reign with Christ in the millennial kingdom.

I couldn't agree more.

Could you reply to my verses and give your undersanding of them?

What does the following mean?

James 5:19-20
19 My brethren, if any among you strays from the truth and one turns him back,
20 let him know that he who turns a sinner from the error of his way will save his soul from death and will cover a multitude of sins.

Will save his soul from death.
He strayed...
and needs to be brought back.


John,,,,the same one who stated that some left because they were "not of us" taught:
Revelation 2:4-5
4 'But I have this against you, that you have left your first love.
5 'Therefore remember from where you have fallen, and repent and do the deeds you did at first; or else I am coming to you and will remove your lampstand out of its place -unless * you repent.


How many warnings do we need?

This endurance is proof of their salvation—those who are saved will always endure, and those who do not were never saved in the first place,

No Blessing.
It does NOT say that the enduring is proof of salvation....You're adding words to scripture and changing the meaning.
it states that THOSE WHO ENDURE will be saved.
Please note the difference.

Jesus said some could go astray:


Matthew 18:12-14
12 "What do you think? If any man has a hundred sheep, and one of them has gone astray, does he not leave the ninety-nine * on the mountains and go and search for the one that is straying?
13 "If it turns out that he finds it, truly I say to you, he rejoices over it more than over the ninety-nine * which have not gone astray.
14 "So it is not the will of your Father who is in heaven that one of these little ones perish.


Jesus' teaching:

1. It is possible to go astray.
2. God rejoices if that sheep is found again.
3. God does not wish that one of these little ones perish.

the false professors. The Greek words for "endure" and "reign" in this line, hypomenomen and symbasileusomen, share the same ending as "died" and "live" in the previous verse. This creates a pattern of four rhyming words in two lines for easy recall by readers and hearers in the original language.

Nice to know.
Now please go over my verses in a language I can understand.

The next phrase, "if we deny him, he also will deny us," presents a contrast with those who endure. If a believer endures, he or she reigns. If a person denies Christ, He will deny eternal life to them. The idea is that of denouncing or rejecting, not simply closing a door to someone. God rejects those who renounce or reject Christ, the false professors.

NO.

IF WE DENY HIM
HE WILL DENY US

means

If we deny Jesus
He will deny us.

You're bringing your preconceived ideas to the verses.


Revelation 22:18
18 I testify to everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: if anyone adds to them, God will add to him the plagues which are written in this book;

John 3:18
Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God

Agreed.

John 3:36
He who believes in the Son has everlasting life; and he who does not believe the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him.”

The key is to be a true believer.

Everyone that believes in OSAS states what you are stating.
It's an easy way out.

But the NT teaches otherwise, if you care to trust the NT.

As to John 3:36...agreed.

But, again,,,,what does BELIEVE mean in the original Greek?

What if a person stops believeing?
What if a person strays?

 

[GodsGrace]

Everyone's got to crawl
And you know that
You're up against a wall
It's about to fall
Everyone's got to crawl
And you know that

[Pre-Chorus 3]
I hear You whispering my name
(God says)
My love for You will never change
(Never change)

[Chorus]
What if I stumble
What if I fall?
What if I lose my step
And I make fools of us all?
Will the love continue
When my walk becomes a crawl?
What if I stumble
And what if I fall?

I'm not discussing falling.

We all fall.
But we don't fall away.

We all stumble,,,
but we don't go astray.

 

[Johann]

Blessed,,,,maybe YOU are the false professor.
Maybe YOU are leading many astray by teaching this heresy known as OSAS,,,which was NEVER taught in the church until about the 1800's. Not even John Calvin taught OSAS. It just was never a teaching of the church....the Christian church...going all the way back to the writers and to Jesus Himself.

What do you think it means to BELIEVE in Jesus?
The NT states that even the demons believe.
So what is the difference?
James 2:19

Seeing that you like the Greek...I'm sure you'll be able to supply a good definiton of BELIEVE as is meant in the NT.

I couldn't agree more.

Could you reply to my verses and give your undersanding of them?

What does the following mean?

James 5:19-20
19 My brethren, if any among you strays from the truth and one turns him back,
20 let him know that he who turns a sinner from the error of his way will save his soul from death and will cover a multitude of sins.

Will save his soul from death.
He strayed...
and needs to be brought back.


John,,,,the same one who stated that some left because they were "not of us" taught:
Revelation 2:4-5
4 'But I have this against you, that you have left your first love.
5 'Therefore remember from where you have fallen, and repent and do the deeds you did at first; or else I am coming to you and will remove your lampstand out of its place -unless * you repent.


How many warnings do we need?

No Blessing.
It does NOT say that the enduring is proof of salvation....You're adding words to scripture and changing the meaning.
it states that THOSE WHO ENDURE will be saved.
Please note the difference.

Jesus said some could go astray:


Matthew 18:12-14
12 "What do you think? If any man has a hundred sheep, and one of them has gone astray, does he not leave the ninety-nine * on the mountains and go and search for the one that is straying?
13 "If it turns out that he finds it, truly I say to you, he rejoices over it more than over the ninety-nine * which have not gone astray.
14 "So it is not the will of your Father who is in heaven that one of these little ones perish.


Jesus' teaching:

1. It is possible to go astray.
2. God rejoices if that sheep is found again.
3. God does not wish that one of these little ones perish.


Nice to know.
Now please go over my verses in a language I can understand.


NO.

IF WE DENY HIM
HE WILL DENY US

means

If we deny Jesus
He will deny us.

You're bringing your preconceived ideas to the verses.


Revelation 22:18
18 I testify to everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: if anyone adds to them, God will add to him the plagues which are written in this book;

Agreed.


Everyone that believes in OSAS states what you are stating.
It's an easy way out.

But the NT teaches otherwise, if you care to trust the NT.

As to John 3:36...agreed.

But, again,,,,what does BELIEVE mean in the original Greek?

What if a person stops believeing?
What if a person strays?

This how a new member gets "schooled" on this forum @GodsGrace?

J.

 

[GodsGrace]

@Doug Brents

Doug, you might not be reading something into the scripture in Luke 15, but you certainly are not rightly dividing the scripture by giving them the proper sense that would flow with all scriptures.

The word dead is not limited to being dead spiritually speaking which you are doing with Luke 15:24.

Very interesting coming from someone that teaches that we are SO DEAD as to be unable to seek after God.

Luke 15:24​

“For this my son was dead, and is alive again; he was lost, and is found. And they began to be merry.”

Please notice" "For this my son was dead, and is alive again". One is not born again, or made alive, and then lose that life and must be born once again, etc. But, one can be a child of God and sin and end up among the congregation of the dead, without the evidence of true spiritual life and just go through the motion of being a son of God, yet their heart is not right with God and need to repent and do their first work. Example would be a great help.

Interesting stuff.

So, IOW, we can't even believe what JESUS teaches!
Apparently, Jesus was UNABLE TO COMMUNICATE what He meant to say.

JESUS said the PS was become alive AGAIN....
this means he was ALIVE, DEAD AND THEN ALIVE AGAIN.


Simple English.

Proverbs 21:16​

“The man that wandereth out of the way of understanding shall remain in the congregation of the dead.”

James 5:20​

“Let him know, that he which converteth the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins.”

James 5:20
You picked that one wrong RB.

Read it again and then come back and report.

If we save one gone astray....we will save his soul FROM DEATH.
It means he was DEAD when he went astary...when he wandered away.

God's children at times wander out of the way of understanding, we all have been there to certain degrees, none are exempt from doing this.

James says the person WILL DIE.....
He will be saved FROM DEATH.

Why does DEATH have a different meaning now?

When we sin and depart from the straight and narrow way and some good brother is sent from God to convert us back into the way, we should walk in, and when we are converted, then KNOW that a brother, (a sinning brother) has been saved (practically speaking) from living in a state, or among the congregation of the dead, not enjoying God's best for his children~I have been there, have you? Do not answer, I know most have, if they are honest with themselves and before others.

Not enjoying God's best?

JAMES SAID the one getting the believer that has wandered off back will SAVE HIS SOUL FROM DEATH.

 

[Doug Brents]

Everyone's got to crawl
And you know that
You're up against a wall
It's about to fall
Everyone's got to crawl
And you know that

[Pre-Chorus 3]
I hear You whispering my name
(God says)
My love for You will never change
(Never change)

[Chorus]
What if I stumble
What if I fall?
What if I lose my step
And I make fools of us all?
Will the love continue
When my walk becomes a crawl?
What if I stumble
And what if I fall?

The Love of God is not synonymous with salvation. It intrigues me that so many people keep saying things that indicate that they believe that it is. Hmmm.

 

[GodsGrace]

This how a new member gets "schooled" on this forum @GodsGrace?

J.

THE TRUTH IS THE TRUTH.

For old members or new members.

Maybe I should lie to @Blessed so he could feel more welcomed?

I don't dislike any member....
I'm discussing a topic that could lead some away from Christianity.

 

[GodsGrace]

The Love of God is not synonymous with salvation. It intrigues me that so many people keep saying things that indicate that they believe that it is. Hmmm.

Honestly, I worry about why @Blessed posted that song.
I listened to it and I don't understand the concern.
I don't understand why it's necessary to believe in OSAS to feel secure...
I don't understand why abiding in Christ is not sufficient for being secure in Him.

Maybe our churches are not properly teaching the Christian faith?

 

[Blessed]

THE TRUTH IS THE TRUTH.

For old members or new members.

Maybe I should lie to @Blessed so he could feel more welcomed?

I don't dislike any member....
I'm discussing a topic that could lead some away from Christianity.

I agree, thinking you can lose your salvation could defiantly lead people astray from accepting the gospel.

God's love has a lot to do with salvation.

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
John 3:16 KJV

Remember Jesus doesn’t say, “I knew you, but then you fell away and lost eternal life.” Instead He says, “I never knew you”

Also you can not grudge my salvation. Who are you?