Excellent Discussion on OSAS

Context is key.
"6 For the mind [f]set on the flesh is death, but the mind [g]set on the Spirit is life and peace, 7 because the mind [h]set on the flesh is hostile toward God; for it does not subject itself to the law of God, for it is not even able to do so, 8 and those who are in the flesh cannot please God."

If you are hostile to God, you cannot please Him. You are hostile. It is impossible to please God.

"Therefore there is now no condemnation at all for those who are in Christ Jesus. 2 For the law of the Spirit of life [a]in Christ Jesus has set you free from the law of sin and of death. 3 For what the Law could not do, weak as it was through the flesh, God did: sending His own Son in the likeness of [c]sinful flesh and as an offering for sin, He condemned sin in the flesh, 4 so that the requirement of the Law might be fulfilled in us who do not walk [d]according to the flesh but [e]according to the Spirit."

The law of death... hmmm... I remember someone saying the Bible never said that. The requirement of the Law is to live a perfect righteous life. If not, you die. It is impossible to live a perfect righteous life, therefore the law is our death. However Jesus did live a perfect righteous life, and as such fulfilled the law where we cannot. However, He died like a common criminal (and was raised again). As such, along with being God, His death became our fulfillment. The death we were to face, He faced. Our sin imputed to Him, as the high priests of old did for the sacrifice of atonement, and His righteousness became our righteousness before God. However, it is only for those who believe. Do note, the Bible doesn't exactly tell us how everyone came or comes to believe. Israel has a day of reckoning coming, after which Jesus Himself will personally save the remnant. (Zechariah) The will look upon Him whom they have pierced, and they recognize Him, and they are broken. All that remain mourn for Him as for an only child, and all that. Then with the fountains of regeneration and forgiveness. FOR ISRAEL, not the Gentiles. This is God's final act in dealing with Israel before the Millennial kingdom begins.
All of that and you have still not really said what it means in Romans 8:8 that "Those who are in the flesh cannot please God." I continue to ask the question, "When the unregenerate mother loves her baby or when she nurses her baby, does that not please God?" I have yet to have anyone answer that question positively. I maintain that God indeed is pleased that anyone, saved or not saved, who demonstrates love for others or who does obey Him in anything. Pleasing God is a bit like obeying God. James tells us in John 2:10, "For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all" James continues to explain what he means there in verse 11, "For he who said, "Do not commit adultery," also said, "Do not murder." If you do not commit adultery but do murder, you have become a transgressor of the law".

So God is not saying that in committing one sin He will hold your responsible for sins you have not committed. It means that in order to obey God you must obey God perfectly with not a single disobedient act. In committing only a single sin in your entire life means that you have not obeyed God. I believe we can mirror James' statement concerning obeying God's law with a similar statement concerning pleasing God, that is, For whoever pleases God in everything but fails to please Him in one point has not pleased God.

Thus, in Romans it means that if the unregenerate has done only a single thing in his entire life that is displeasing to God, then he cannot please God. That does not mean that God is displeased with everything that the unregenerate does.
 
"Those who are in the flesh cannot please God." I continue to ask the question, "When the unregenerate mother loves her baby or when she nurses her baby, does that not please God?" I have yet to have anyone answer that question positively. I maintain that God indeed is pleased that anyone, saved or not saved, who demonstrates love for others or who does obey Him in anything.

When the unregenerate act in a manner that is externally similar to God's value system, that is indeed a morally positive thing.

But they do not do it with the perfect desire to honor God above all in every relationship and the sincere sacrificial love of Christ.

Yes, they can sacrifice externally, and it is commendable, but it is not holiness, and it is not purity, and it is not righteousness.

Because our very best love is idolatrous, in each value we make we never put God first, we idolize our emotional feelings and relationships, and even when we sacrifice for someone we do it for ulterior secret motives of feeling good about ourself or trying to win the favor of our idols. The most virtuous act a fallen human has ever done—ever in all of history—is so far short of God's glory it can only deserve God's wrath for it's failure to genuinely honor him. And that includes me, even as a Christian, my best work on my best day, still deserves hell, because Christ is not perfectly manifest through me yet.

And it is very important to discern this difference, because in truth we are all drawn to self-righteousness, and it is the single most readily available and most easy to commit sin of the entire race, and the most transgressed in as well. Even an outwardly evil man thinks somehow he is justified or someone else is worse, and an outwardly moral man, is filled with a sense of being superior and above those who fail to meet his standard. But pride, although the cardinal and most prevalent sin, is also the hardest sin of all for each person to see, because the mind is blinded with a false image of what the heart really is.

Once we establish we really cannot please God in our flesh, and that Scripture is actually true, we will not harbor those secret feelings that Jesus just partly pays for the portions we fall short in, and instead we realize Jesus had to pay the whole thing, and we do not share the tab with him, and contribute our own righteousness with his sacrifice being the cherry on top of it. "Not having a righteousness of my own," says Paul, because "there is no good thing in me."

Now we can find actual humility in the full acknowledgement of the truth of our unworthiness and see hell is not an overstatement or injustice to how bad we really are, but rather simply the declaration and revelation that we all actually really do deserve hell, because we are evil. No one righteous, no, not one, all have sinned and fallen short, no one is good. Could Scripture be more clear? But the heart deceitful above all things and desperately wicked that cannot know itself, finds a way.

Now we see that a true free choice is only a bestowal of the mercy and grace of God by acting on our sinful desires and changing them into something better, showing us the truth, and empowering us to desire the good, which we cannot do on our own, because by the works of the Law shall no flesh be justified in his sight, and all have been sold to sin such that the law brings life to no man, woman, boy or child, since we are born under a Law the Scripture clearly tells us we cannot even potentially keep.

And this is where the Calvinist goes wrong, because he thinks grace is a bullet to the head and a man raping his wife with a love potion, instead of choosing this day whom we will serve, and saying "I do" to God's proposal.
 
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All of that and you have still not really said what it means in Romans 8:8 that "Those who are in the flesh cannot please God." I continue to ask the question, "When the unregenerate mother loves her baby or when she nurses her baby, does that not please God?"
No, but it certainly pleases the baby. Unless you are trying to say if the mother died at that moment, it's dead to the world, and present before God to live eternally. However, that would simply make you a heretic.
I have yet to have anyone answer that question positively. I maintain that God indeed is pleased that anyone, saved or not saved, who demonstrates love for others or who does obey Him in anything.
To bad God doesn't care what you maintain. If you die and go to hell, then obviously, God was not pleased.
Pleasing God is a bit like obeying God. James tells us in John 2:10, "For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all" James continues to explain what he means there in verse 11, "For he who said, "Do not commit adultery," also said, "Do not murder." If you do not commit adultery but do murder, you have become a transgressor of the law".

So God is not saying that in committing one sin He will hold your responsible for sins you have not committed. It means that in order to obey God you must obey God perfectly with not a single disobedient act. In committing only a single sin in your entire life means that you have not obeyed God. I believe we can mirror James' statement concerning obeying God's law with a similar statement concerning pleasing God, that is, For whoever pleases God in everything but fails to please Him in one point has not pleased God.
Cannot please God should be added to that. And Paul was clear "For ALL have sinned [committed a single sin] and fallen short of the glory of God. So no, God is not pleased by anyone who is not a believer, for they all fit what you say is one who has comitted a single disobedient act. Though everyone has committed a lot more than that. Especially children. However, just like with the children of Israel in the wilderness... they are too young to know right from wrong, so God may not hold them accountable.
Thus, in Romans it means that if the unregenerate has done only a single thing in his entire life that is displeasing to God, then he cannot please God. That does not mean that God is displeased with everything that the unregenerate does.
That technically means that God is displeased with everything that the unregenerate does.
 
That technically means that God is displeased with everything that the unregenerate does.
Does that mean then that God is pleased with everything the regenerate does in his life? I don't think so. Given that so much of the NT is written to correct the wrongs of the saints, how can the authors put such correction before them if God is pleased with everything they do. And if God is not pleased with some of the things the regenerate does, then to say that God is not pleased with anything that the unregenerate does seems to me to change the meaning of "please God".

If the measure of pleasing God is simply whether one is regenerate or not, then what is the meaning of passages such as 1 Thessalonians 2:4 and 4:1?
 
Logic doesn't work like that, it's not as if the unregenerate cannot please God then the regenerate must always please God, that's not how that works. Regeneration is a necessary but not sufficient condition. Obviously, regeneration is what is necessary to please God meritoriously, that is, to be worthy of heaven (through the Cross). This does not logically entail that every action is necessarily pleasing.
 
Logic doesn't work like that, it's not as if the unregenerate cannot please God then the regenerate must always please God, that's not how that works. Regeneration is a necessary but not sufficient condition. Obviously, regeneration is what is necessary to please God meritoriously, that is, to be worthy of heaven (through the Cross). This does not logically entail that every action is necessarily pleasing.
No one is worthy of heaven. That is the reason that Jesus Christ had to sacrifice Himself on the cross.

Also, one who has been born again, i.e., regenerated, has also been justified and initially sanctified. As such that one has been saved. He has a right standing before God. It is a state of being for the one who has been saved.

You say Logic doesn't work like that. But if it doesn't then as I have said, the meaning of the phrase "please God" changes and is not consistent, and the meaning of "please God" is lost and there is only regenerated and not regenerated.
 
@Jim
All of that and you have still not really said what it means in Romans 8:8 that "Those who are in the flesh cannot please God." I continue to ask the question, "When the unregenerate mother loves her baby or when she nurses her baby, does that not please God?" I have yet to have anyone answer that question positively. I maintain that God indeed is pleased that anyone, saved or not saved, who demonstrates love for others or who does obey Him in anything.
Jim, I have answered this before, maybe you have just forgotten. Jim, I agree men do many acts of kindness toward others, especially so toward their loved ones, but that proves not one thing spiritually speaking. Those still in flesh "cannot" do one thing of a spiritual nature/act that is pleasing to God, not one.
 
You say Logic doesn't work like that.

Consider the following statements:

1. Those who are in the flesh cannot please God.

2. Those who are not in the flesh do not necessarily please God.


Those are not logically contradictory statements.
 
@Jim

Jim, I have answered this before, maybe you have just forgotten. Jim, I agree men do many acts of kindness toward others, especially so toward their loved ones, but that proves not one thing spiritually speaking. Those still in flesh "cannot" do one thing of a spiritual nature/act that is pleasing to God, not one.
No, I haven't forgotten. I just do not agree that God is displeased that the unregenerate mother loves and nurses her baby.

And I am not sure what you mean by "of a spiritual nature/act". Is a mother nursing her baby of a spiritual nature/act? I think it is significant that Paul, in Romans 8:7, speaks of the hostility of the flesh is such that it does not submit to God's law. Thus given that the gospel is quite clearly not law, it means that not submitting to God's law does not preclude the sinner from responding to the gospel.
 
Consider the following statements:

1. Those who are in the flesh cannot please God.

2. Those who are not in the flesh do not necessarily please God.


Those are not logically contradictory statements.
Let's be sure what a logical contradiction is. The two statements, "the sky is blue" and "the sky is red" are not contradictory statements. A contradictory statement to "the sky is blue" is "the sky is not blue". The two statements "at this very moment the sky is blue" and "at this very moment the sky is red" are contradictory so long as the moments in both statements are taken to be the exact same moment.

So yes, those two statements you posted there are not contradictory statements. But I maintain there is a necessity of understanding what "please God" means in the case of a verse like Romans 8:8.

It is very similar to what Jesus intended, when it says in Mark 10:18. "Why do you call me good? No one is good except God alone". Does that mean Jesus as a man never did anything good? I don't think so. So then what is the meaning there of the word "good"?
 
Just as I suspected and it’s irrelevant to the discussion. It was an attempt at a guilt by association fallacy.

No it wasn't, stop poisoning the well.

There are other reasons to legitimately ask that question, and you are just straight up slandering my motivations when you have absolutely no proof whatsoever of them. And you do that A LOT. You really need to repent and stop.

I was NOT asking to make Jim guilty by association, I was asking so that I can ascertain Jim's approximate beliefs without giving him a full questionnaire, and seeing what the influences in his life are.

So get lost.
 
No it wasn't, stop poisoning the well.

There are other reasons to legitimately ask that question, and you are just straight up slandering my motivations when you have absolutely no proof whatsoever of them. And you do that A LOT. You really need to repent and stop.

I was NOT asking to make Jim guilty by association, I was asking so that I can ascertain Jim's approximate beliefs without giving him a full questionnaire, and seeing what the influences in his life are.

So get lost.
And I was right about Jim he has no idea who he is and came to his own conclusions without outside influences , just himself, Gods word and the Holy Spirit.

Hope this helps !!!
 
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